Baz "axl really wanted CD out this year"

[Jim Bob]

I don't consider the "update" from Del James to be official, unless he's in the band now

was the statement posted on gunsnroses.com?  if so, its official.

[SLCPUNK]

My outlook on the album is like many other things I may end up anticipating- I don't. I expect never to have it, and if it does come out, then it's a great surprise. 

[RoxyCotton]

ya know, I've thought about this a lot and analyzed it more than I care to admit...

 and I truly believe he doesn't know when it's coming out or he would send another press release out.  I'm sure he thought it would come out march 6th and something happened...and he's not going to announce anything else until he knows when.

[Bobarcord]

I nominate that post.^Ffor most long winded post while trying to make ones self look more important then others.

[cineater]

You read--lol--most of us just skipped over it.

[cybercurves]

With that said, I still firmly believe what this thread was originally about...that Axl really wanted the CD out this year. ?But for one reason or another, (reasons where are none of our business) it just didn't happen. ?

[Bobarcord]

You read--lol--most of us just skipped over it.

That was my first my second mistake. The first was drink all that rum.

The album will be here when it gets here. Hell isn't that way for all albums?

[SLCPUNK]

In an effort to counteract all of the negativity and childlike ignorance, I will hopefully shed some light on the managerial and marketing process in hopes that it will provide some clarity into your dark, clouded prepubescent minds. And since I doubt that any of you monkeys actually understand the labor involved with releasing an album, I'll try my best to cover the basics.

Wow, my first man crush. 

[mrbucketfoot]

I nominate that post.^Ffor most long winded post while trying to make ones self look more important then others.

Nope, pretty simple: I'm tired of all the bitching and complaining.

[Bobarcord]

I nominate that post.^Ffor most long winded post while trying to make ones self look more important then others.

Nope, pretty simple: I'm tired of all the bitching and complaining.

So you complain about the complaining . How great .....

[cineater]

Can I just push this Firing Line title a little bit more?

Firing Line (1966-1999) was an American public affairs show founded and hosted by conservative William F. Buckley, Jr. The theme music of Firing Line was the Brandenburg Concerto No. 2 in F Major, Third Movement (Allegro assai), by Johann Sebastian Bach.  This piece was also chosen to be the first on the list of songs to be played on the "golden record", a phonograph record containing a broad sample of planet Earth's common sounds, languages, and music. The record was sent into outer space with the Voyager probe launched September 5, 1977 in hopes that some intelligent extraterrestrial species might find and decode its contents.

Cool conection all the way around.

[SamBob]

I nominate that post.^Ffor most long winded post while trying to make ones self look more important then others.

Nope, pretty simple: I'm tired of all the bitching and complaining.

So you complain about the complaining . How great .....

I thought they were just trying to chillax everyone (that long winded post...), but I don't think that will work. XDD

[grog mug]

I don't know if this has been said yet, but IF AXL WANTED IT OUT THIS YEAR-IT WOULD BE OUT!!!

[seely]

I don't know if this has been said yet, but IF AXL WANTED IT OUT THIS YEAR-IT WOULD BE OUT!!!

Yep, my betting is that we're gonna get another 'Open Letter From Axl Rose' like we did last christmas where he'll give us a load of old pony about how he tried his best, it wasn't his fault e.t.c, and then he'll set another 'Tentative' release date just so we can shut up and leave him alone for a few months

Mr. Rose, on behalf of us all, i say to you:                         

[The_Wretched]

i think the album is 100% ready. the prob might be that Axl is demanding ridiculous things from the record company. Probably more royalty. THe record company is probably trying to collect some of the $15 million or so spent of damn album. It's probably a legal issue(money) that's holding it back.

Either that or there is no Chinese Democracy because democracy doens't exist in China. lol... or this is the biggest prank in rock history and we've all been punk'd.

[seely]

Either that or there is no Chinese Democracy because democracy doens't exist in China. lol... or this is the biggest prank in rock history and we've all been punk'd.

Don't even THINK that! 

[Bartlet]

In an effort to counteract all of the negativity and childlike ignorance, I will hopefully shed some light on the managerial and marketing process in hopes that it will provide some clarity into your dark, clouded prepubescent minds. And since I doubt that any of you monkeys actually understand the labor involved with releasing an album, I'll try my best to cover the basics. And if you're in need of proper credentials, I've worked as an intern at Jackson National Life (management consulting) and a Marketing Manager at high level management company for some time. And as a disclaimer, I'm not claiming to be in the know, rather explain in business terms the difficulty of releasing Chinese Democracy.

Firstly, Marketing would best be described as: 'The process of planning and executing the conception, pricing, promotion and distributions of goods or services (in this case, good; ala, Chinese Democracy) to facilitate exchanges that satisfy individual and organizational objectives.' It's business 101, look it up.

Now that "Marketing" has been properly defined, in stark contrast with the "release the album, do a video" idea suggested by the fanbase. So you see, Marketing is a much more complex task than doing something that satiates the fanbase, if that were the case, the album would come out next week. Look at recent 'superhero' movies; Spiderman, X-Men, etc., most of those movies have a base in the source material, however very rarely do they stick solely to the books. Why? Because the comic book market is a niche. It's a very small piece of a very large pie. Guns N' Roses would have remained a poorly selling cult favorite if weren't for songs like 'Sweet Child O' Mine'. Making movies is much like making records, it's a very difficult, refined process that takes a lot of work, but in the end the goal is to make it seem like a beautiful and effortless presentation of story and art.

A release as huge as "Chinese Democracy" deserves proper attention. Think about what Axl and the band are trying to accomplish. Not only does "Chinese Democracy" serve as an reinvention of a huge brand name like Guns N' Roses, but also it's marketing Guns N' Roses to an entirely new demographic. The people on these forums are an easy sell, some loyal fans who have stuck with the band through it all, but an aging fanbase isn't going to make "Chinese Democracy" a success. There are the 'individual objectives' of the Axl and the band, the labor of updating, reinventing, and refining the GNR sound all the while satisfying the fanbase and attracting new fans. Then there's the "organizational, corporate" objectives of dollars and cents, making a return on their huge investment and not simply releasing an album because of all the history involved of making it.

Then there's the issue of promotion. Promotion, or 'All the techniques that sellers use to motivate people to buy their product and? an effort by marketers to inform and remind people in the target market about products and persuade them to participate in an exchange.' Obviously, it's a very difficult thing to market a huge name like GNR not even mentioning all the expectations that are riding on the album by those involved, the fanbase, and critics alike.

This may seem long winded or too brief to some, however I encourage you to take these ideas into account and reread Axl's letter except this time without your ideas of what the band should do. Because honestly, you have no idea. In regard to the effort of creation: writing, recording, mixing mastering, or the effort of production: marketing, promotion, pricing, distributing, most of you are in the dark. Not one f'n idea. Just because you know a lot about the history of the band doesn't mean you know what goes on or has gone on during the conception through completion of "Chinese Democracy".

That may sound condescending or presumptuous, but I'm just like everyone else, I love the band, I want to hear new music, I'm a fan. But the real sin would not letting the album be released properly? after all the "behind-the-scenes triumphs and casualties" as Axl calls them and having the presentation of such a powerful album by a very talented group of musicians be ruined. So however long things take, I'm willing to wait.

Just some thoughts.

>Bucketfoot.

Thankyou oh great one. i feel touched by the hand of a genious...!

[seely]

Thankyou oh great one. i feel touched by the hand of a genious...!

 

[Bartlet]

Thankyou oh great one. i feel touched by the hand of a genious...!

 

But in future, please keep your hands off me.

[bodine]

In an effort to counteract all of the negativity and childlike ignorance, I will hopefully shed some light on the managerial and marketing process in hopes that it will provide some clarity into your dark, clouded prepubescent minds. And since I doubt that any of you monkeys actually understand the labor involved with releasing an album, I'll try my best to cover the basics. And if you're in need of proper credentials, I've worked as an intern at Jackson National Life (management consulting) and a Marketing Manager at high level management company for some time. And as a disclaimer, I'm not claiming to be in the know, rather explain in business terms the difficulty of releasing Chinese Democracy.

Firstly, Marketing would best be described as: 'The process of planning and executing the conception, pricing, promotion and distributions of goods or services (in this case, good; ala, Chinese Democracy) to facilitate exchanges that satisfy individual and organizational objectives.' It's business 101, look it up.

Now that "Marketing" has been properly defined, in stark contrast with the "release the album, do a video" idea suggested by the fanbase. So you see, Marketing is a much more complex task than doing something that satiates the fanbase, if that were the case, the album would come out next week. Look at recent 'superhero' movies; Spiderman, X-Men, etc., most of those movies have a base in the source material, however very rarely do they stick solely to the books. Why? Because the comic book market is a niche. It's a very small piece of a very large pie. Guns N' Roses would have remained a poorly selling cult favorite if weren't for songs like 'Sweet Child O' Mine'. Making movies is much like making records, it's a very difficult, refined process that takes a lot of work, but in the end the goal is to make it seem like a beautiful and effortless presentation of story and art.

A release as huge as "Chinese Democracy" deserves proper attention. Think about what Axl and the band are trying to accomplish. Not only does "Chinese Democracy" serve as an reinvention of a huge brand name like Guns N' Roses, but also it's marketing Guns N' Roses to an entirely new demographic. The people on these forums are an easy sell, some loyal fans who have stuck with the band through it all, but an aging fanbase isn't going to make "Chinese Democracy" a success. There are the 'individual objectives' of the Axl and the band, the labor of updating, reinventing, and refining the GNR sound all the while satisfying the fanbase and attracting new fans. Then there's the "organizational, corporate" objectives of dollars and cents, making a return on their huge investment and not simply releasing an album because of all the history involved of making it.

Then there's the issue of promotion. Promotion, or 'All the techniques that sellers use to motivate people to buy their product and? an effort by marketers to inform and remind people in the target market about products and persuade them to participate in an exchange.' Obviously, it's a very difficult thing to market a huge name like GNR not even mentioning all the expectations that are riding on the album by those involved, the fanbase, and critics alike.

This may seem long winded or too brief to some, however I encourage you to take these ideas into account and reread Axl's letter except this time without your ideas of what the band should do. Because honestly, you have no idea. In regard to the effort of creation: writing, recording, mixing mastering, or the effort of production: marketing, promotion, pricing, distributing, most of you are in the dark. Not one f'n idea. Just because you know a lot about the history of the band doesn't mean you know what goes on or has gone on during the conception through completion of "Chinese Democracy".

That may sound condescending or presumptuous, but I'm just like everyone else, I love the band, I want to hear new music, I'm a fan. But the real sin would not letting the album be released properly? after all the "behind-the-scenes triumphs and casualties" as Axl calls them and having the presentation of such a powerful album by a very talented group of musicians be ruined. So however long things take, I'm willing to wait.

Just some thoughts.

>Bucketfoot.

Wow, so all these years and they didn't start planning any of that until the music was finished . . .  Maybe I am too small-minded to understand that!