Expelled the Movie

[loretian]

My friends,

Regardless of your politic opinions and regardless of your religious opinions, in America today, there is a terrible truth.? When I visited Europe in 2001, I stayed in France, Germany, and Switzerland.? In fact, at the time, most of the people I visited, many of whom were close friends, they were all pretty much anti-George Bush.? This is prior to 9/11.

Even though I found that we agreed on most, if not all social issues (I am extremely conservative), they still were anti-Bush.? This, I found interesting.

Since then, and even before then, I've noticed a direct smear campaign against anyone who would challenge the status quo.? In fact, this may surprise many Europeans, but if you openly support George W. Bush in America, or choose to actually listen to the science which contradicts many popular claims, you are treated as an idiot, or worse.

The argument here is not about who is right, or who is wrong, but it's about what is allowed, and if freedom of speech can include those of us who are not among the popular or the general consensus.? What this trailer for this movie presents is a reality in America today.

Those liberals (or otherwise) who disagree, I urge you to respond to this, and argue why you think the premise of this movie is incorrect.? In the meantime, I hope everyone will watch the trailer for this movie.

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.php

[Verse Chorus Verse]

It's called the bandwagon, it seems you're not cool if you don't automatically hate Bush.

Although I take no participation in either being for or against any candidates/office holders. Too much drama.

[SLCPUNK]

"Smear Campaign"? Don't you think that's a bit dramatic? What personal examples can you provide of "smear campaigns"?

Since then, and even before then, I've noticed a direct smear campaign against anyone who would challenge the status quo. 

[loretian]

"Smear Campaign"? Don't you think that's a bit dramatic? What personal examples can you provide of "smear campaigns"?

Since then, and even before then, I've noticed a direct smear campaign against anyone who would challenge the status quo.?

Well, personally, my dad has been attacked (directly, openly, EXPLICITLY) by the largest campus in the US for being Christian.? Nothing more than that.? In the past few years, he has found a way to work with the campus, but they have provided incorrect and false information to the campus newspaper in order to detract from his work.  The board has no issue with directly stating they were opposed to him for being Christian.

I realize many of you many question whether there was more than just his being Christian at play here, and I assure you there was.    I also assure you, by their direct statements, they told my dad without question that they were opposed to any sort of Christian idea or thought on the campus.


In fact, if you were to go to their education website, until about 8-9 months ago, and search for "christian studies", no results would appear.? Search for "muslim studies", "gay studies", "global warming", anything of the like, and many results would show up.? ?But Christian.. no... that was an evil word, never to be used within the context of education or learning.? Keep in mind this is the largest (though not the most respected) campus in the US.

[The Dog]

are you going to tell us which campus it is?

and what work is your dad working on? 

I like how you put global warming in parenthesis, as if its not real or something.  this is going to be a good thread 

right wing Christian studies where they want to teach intelligent design and not evolution or any of that bullshit should not be on a normal college campus - its has nothing to do with science, just dumbing down society. 

[Bobarcord]

If you want to study Christian studies take your ass to a Christian school.

[freedom78]

First, Bush IS the status quo...so talking bad about him is, thus, challenging the status quo. 

Second, is this anything like the smear campaign against those who opposed the war back in 2003? 

Anyway, it's difficult to put any validity behind this, because of all the vague language.  What school?  Elementary, middle, high, university?  Are you honestly telling me that there's a major university that doesn't offer a single religion class on Christianity?  I find that very hard to believe.  It may not be called "Christian studies," but still...

Those liberals (or otherwise) who disagree, I urge you to respond to this, and argue why you think the premise of this movie is incorrect.  In the meantime, I hope everyone will watch the trailer for this movie.

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/playground.php

I watched the trailer...not sure what it has to do with Bush, but I'll comment anyway.

There are some things that science can prove beyond any reasonable doubt.  There are other things that science has not yet proven, and possibly some things it cannot prove.  There is no scientific leap that can be made, however, between life and the existence of a higher power.  If someone wants to argue that evolution did not occur or is a highly improbable process is perfectly fine.  Science does encourage questioning.  If the results indicate that evolution is unlikely, I have no problem with a scientist indicating that there may be an alternative explanation.  But nowhere at all is it plausible to make the leap from "evolution is unlikely" to "God is the best explanation." 

The true fact of the matter is that some are overly obsessed with the teaching of religion in schools, or in substituting religious doctrine for actual evidence.  There are a great many who cannot abide the fact that science has uncovered evidence that runs contrary to what they've believed all their lives.  Some of us, myself included, have no difficulty reconciling science and faith.  Others do.  Their problems in doing so, however, do not make things any less true.  If a religious text tells us that the sky is blue because it's actually the iris of God's great blue eye, watching us, and it's red at sun set because God is tired and his eyes are bloodshot, that doesn't make the fact of light absorption and reflection any less true.  Similarly, some have argued against evidence about the age of the Earth, because science cannot be reconciled with a strict reading of religious texts.  At some point it just gets silly.  If people want to live in ignorance of scientific truth, I have no problem with that...like the movie says, it's a free country.  But preaching against science in the classroom is ignorant and counterproductive.  If you cannot reconcile your religious beliefs with settled science, then do not become a teacher of science. 

[Howard2k]

"Smear Campaign"? Don't you think that's a bit dramatic? What personal examples can you provide of "smear campaigns"?

Since then, and even before then, I've noticed a direct smear campaign against anyone who would challenge the status quo.?

Well, personally, my dad has been attacked (directly, openly, EXPLICITLY) by the largest campus in the US for being Christian.? Nothing more than that.? In the past few years, he has found a way to work with the campus, but they have provided incorrect and false information to the campus newspaper in order to detract from his work.? The board has no issue with directly stating they were opposed to him for being Christian.

I realize many of you many question whether there was more than just his being Christian at play here, and I assure you there was.? ? I also assure you, by their direct statements, they told my dad without question that they were opposed to any sort of Christian idea or thought on the campus.


In fact, if you were to go to their education website, until about 8-9 months ago, and search for "christian studies", no results would appear.? Search for "muslim studies", "gay studies", "global warming", anything of the like, and many results would show up.? ?But Christian.. no... that was an evil word, never to be used within the context of education or learning.? Keep in mind this is the largest (though not the most respected) campus in the US.

Who is your Dad and what was said?

[SLCPUNK]

I watched the trailer...not sure what it has to do with Bush, but I'll comment anyway.

There are some things that science can prove beyond any reasonable doubt.  There are other things that science has not yet proven, and possibly some things it cannot prove.  There is no scientific leap that can be made, however, between life and the existence of a higher power.  If someone wants to argue that evolution did not occur or is a highly improbable process is perfectly fine.  Science does encourage questioning.  If the results indicate that evolution is unlikely, I have no problem with a scientist indicating that there may be an alternative explanation.  But nowhere at all is it plausible to make the leap from "evolution is unlikely" to "God is the best explanation." 

The true fact of the matter is that some are overly obsessed with the teaching of religion in schools, or in substituting religious doctrine for actual evidence.  There are a great many who cannot abide the fact that science has uncovered evidence that runs contrary to what they've believed all their lives.  Some of us, myself included, have no difficulty reconciling science and faith.  Others do.  Their problems in doing so, however, do not make things any less true.  If a religious text tells us that the sky is blue because it's actually the iris of God's great blue eye, watching us, and it's red at sun set because God is tired and his eyes are bloodshot, that doesn't make the fact of light absorption and reflection any less true.  Similarly, some have argued against evidence about the age of the Earth, because science cannot be reconciled with a strict reading of religious texts.  At some point it just gets silly.  If people want to live in ignorance of scientific truth, I have no problem with that...like the movie says, it's a free country.  But preaching against science in the classroom is ignorant and counterproductive.  If you cannot reconcile your religious beliefs with settled science, then do not become a teacher of science. 

You saved me some writing.

I'm interested in the reply.

[fuckin crazy]

"Smear Campaign"? Don't you think that's a bit dramatic? What personal examples can you provide of "smear campaigns"?

Since then, and even before then, I've noticed a direct smear campaign against anyone who would challenge the status quo. ?

Well, personally, my dad has been attacked (directly, openly, EXPLICITLY) by the largest campus in the US for being Christian. ?Nothing more than that. ?In the past few years, he has found a way to work with the campus, but they have provided incorrect and false information to the campus newspaper in order to detract from his work. The board has no issue with directly stating they were opposed to him for being Christian.

I realize many of you many question whether there was more than just his being Christian at play here, and I assure you there was. I also assure you, by their direct statements, they told my dad without question that they were opposed to any sort of Christian idea or thought on the campus.


In fact, if you were to go to their education website, until about 8-9 months ago, and search for "christian studies", no results would appear. ?Search for "muslim studies", "gay studies", "global warming", anything of the like, and many results would show up. ? But Christian.. no... that was an evil word, never to be used within the context of education or learning. ?Keep in mind this is the largest (though not the most respected) campus in the US.

Are sure he wasn't trying to get that religious bullshit known as ID into the curriculum. Ive dealt with religious idealogues, and I know the lies, half truths, subterfuge they try to employ ... not saying your dad was, but ...

I've seen the trailer for movie and I'm aware of the tripe that it spews. It should go over quite well to those who score poorly on their ACTs, conspiracy theorists, and ignorant fools. Every single time evolution is mentioned, they lie in their pathetic way in an attempt to further their own agenda. ?Pure propaganda by the religious right ... nothing more.

If you want to read a good review of the clip, see PZ Meyers review HERE

[TAP]

Politics dressed up as religion dressed up as science.

Why do fundamentalist xians in the USA whine like little babies when they can't have their own way with everything. They have political power, a vast population majority (of xians), not to mention a supreme being offering eternal bliss on their side yet they act like they're oppressed first century slaves about to be thrown to the lions.

Intelligent design is not science by the very definition of science whether it's true or not. There's no "two sides of the debate/alternative point of view" here - it should be mocked ridiculed and ostracized from the scientific community because it's not worthy of anything else. Take it to church where it belongs.

[SLCPUNK]

If you want to read a good review of the clip, see PZ Meyers review HERE

"It's interesting that Stein is very open about the religious underpinnings of Intelligent Design creationism, something the Discovery Institute would rather hide, while so grossly misrepresenting evolutionary theory?but then, that's what it is all about, making an emotional appeal to the religious while burying the intellectual power of evolution beneath a caricature."

That was the very first thing that struck me in that movie clip. The amazingly dumb downed (and that's being generous) version of evolution, paired with an "attack on Christianity." As intelligent as Stein is, I was thoroughly let down by the opening act. I was afriad I might see Mike Seaver with a banana at any minute afterwards.

[SLCPUNK]

Politics dressed up as religion dressed up as science.

Why do fundamentalist xians in the USA whine like little babies when they can't have their own way with everything. They have political power, a vast population majority (of xians), not to mention a supreme being offering eternal bliss on their side yet they act like they're oppressed first century slaves about to be thrown to the lions.

Intelligent design is not science by the very definition of science whether it's true or not. There's no "two sides of the debate/alternative point of view" here - it should be mocked ridiculed and ostracized from the scientific community because it's not worthy of anything else. Take it to church where it belongs.

Nailed it.

Who ever thought working the "Oppressed white Christian in America" could be so absurd yet so powerful? It works like a charm, and that's why they do it. Hannity does it, OR does it, Coulter does it. It must be true if they say so huh? Liberal professors who brain wash our kids in college, liberal drive by media who lie to us all...all while we (America mind you) voted republican. Who is the conspiracy nut again?

Perhaps they scoff at religion, because it ain't science, not because they despise Christianity.

[AbominableHoman]

I'm a big fan of bathing in one's ignorant bliss, and following the status quo. Less work for me, and it makes sure I'm more right then at least 49.9% of people.

[JMack]

What are we talking about again?

[loretian]

Without addressing every single point here (I will not speak further about  my dad's position for his own sake, I am nothing but an embaressment to him), but if you honestly think that the "white Christian majority" is just that, you are are mistaken.

I understand that Bush won the last two elections, but it's rare, and was rare, for me every to go anywhere and find support for him.  If this majority exists in any sort of organized sense, it's entirely a secret, and they've chosen not to include me.

My own experiences, with people of various degrees of intellect, is that there exists an extreme bias against Christianity and anything that purports to argue with the current dogma of today; namely, that being darwinism.

Darwinisn and aethism have brought about some of the most horrible massacres mankind has ever known.  You can bring up the salem witch trials, you can bring up various incidents of death, but communism?  Nazism?  PURE 100% beliefs totally based on darwinism.  Read Karl Marx.  It is a belief in death, and cynicism, and no hope for the future.  The irony of poltiics in America today was the extreme-left killed "reasonable" liberalism (yes, Kennedy was murdered for not being left-wing enough, by an insane radical left-winger), and since then, it has only been darkness and cynicism in America by the left wing.  America should not be looked upon favorably, and all our faults should be the end, the damnation of us.

I reject that, and will fight and always believe in a brighter future for America, and the entire world.   Nihilism has no place in a world that hopes for life.

The distinction I personally find is that of a question of honor versus life.  If you look at many of the societies which are typically looked down upon, regardless of polical beliefs, or religious beliefs, by "western culture," you will find that they place honor over life.  In America, and many European countries, we place life over honor.  This is a key difiference to me.

I honestly believe most liberals in America today agree with me on so many isssues, but the fact of the matter is, the liberal media consistently, without conscience, portrays things as otherwise, and so the pain continues.

[freedom78]

Without addressing every single point here (I will not speak further about  my dad's position for his own sake, I am nothing but an embaressment to him), but if you honestly think that the "white Christian majority" is just that, you are are mistaken.

Umm...white people are about 3/4 of the population.  Same with Christians.  So, if every single non-white person is Christian, that means that 50% of the country is still white Christian.

Of course, not everyone makes their religious beliefs the basis of their vote...

I understand that Bush won the last two elections, but it's rare, and was rare, for me every to go anywhere and find support for him.  If this majority exists in any sort of organized sense, it's entirely a secret, and they've chosen not to include me.

My guess is that this is because he's been a horrible President.  Haven't all of our Presidents been Christian, of one denomination or another?  If so, then the President with the highest approval ratings ever would, by your measure, represent overwhelming support for Christianity. 

My own experiences, with people of various degrees of intellect, is that there exists an extreme bias against Christianity and anything that purports to argue with the current dogma of today; namely, that being darwinism.

How can 3/4 of the country be biased against their own religions?  The vast majority of people have no such bias.  They may have strong opinions against an erosion of the establishment clause, but that's hardly the same thing.

Darwinisn and aethism have brought about some of the most horrible massacres mankind has ever known.  You can bring up the salem witch trials, you can bring up various incidents of death, but communism?  Nazism?  PURE 100% beliefs totally based on darwinism.  Read Karl Marx.  It is a belief in death, and cynicism, and no hope for the future.  The irony of poltiics in America today was the extreme-left killed "reasonable" liberalism (yes, Kennedy was murdered for not being left-wing enough, by an insane radical left-winger), and since then, it has only been darkness and cynicism in America by the left wing.  America should not be looked upon favorably, and all our faults should be the end, the damnation of us.

I'm not sure you can attribute evil to an idea, rather than the people who cause it.  But if so, then Christianity is certainly just as guilty as anything else (the Crusades and manifest destiny ring a bell).  But the truth is that people have killed each other for more reasons than I care to count.

I reject that, and will fight and always believe in a brighter future for America, and the entire world.   Nihilism has no place in a world that hopes for life.

Are you equating a belief in science and/or atheism with nihilism?  Because they're not really the same thing.  Just watch "The Big Lebowski." 

The distinction I personally find is that of a question of honor versus life.  If you look at many of the societies which are typically looked down upon, regardless of polical beliefs, or religious beliefs, by "western culture," you will find that they place honor over life.  In America, and many European countries, we place life over honor.  This is a key difiference to me.

Maybe this relates to another facet of the thread, but you just made a big leap...care to elaborate on how this ties in with the primary issue of anti-Christianity?

I honestly believe most liberals in America today agree with me on so many isssues, but the fact of the matter is, the liberal media consistently, without conscience, portrays things as otherwise, and so the pain continues.

The "liberal media" also portrays a lot of things that actually happen...like Bush preventing federal funding for stem cell research or any other issue where religion affects public policy.

[The Dog]

what does evolution have to do with nazis or communism? 

nothing.

its a pathetic attempt by science hating, bible thumping d-bags to excuse how their own religion was manipulated and twisted to justify the deaths of thousands.

when species were going extinct or evolving such things as rationale thought hadn't even been created, let alone things like religion.

[fuckin crazy]

Darwinisn and aethism have brought about some of the most horrible massacres mankind has ever known.

 I am familiar with the half truths, mistruths, and outright lies that you creationists use in a pathetic attemp to bolster your dogma. It is religion that causes the conflicts of the world ... always has been, always will be. The sooner mankind rids itself of the archaic concept of believing in myths, the better off we will all be.

but communism?

I think you are confusing communism with dictatorial authoritarianism.

Nazism? PURE 100% beliefs totally based on darwinism.

Hitler was a religious man ... more christo-fascist lies.

From Mien Kamfp:
The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated. [original italics]

For God's will gave men their form, their essence, and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will. Therefore, let every man be active, each in his own denomination if you please, and let every man take it as his first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who in his activity by word or deed steps outside the confines of his religious community and tries to butt into the other.

[...]

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.[origonal italics]

. Read Karl Marx. It is a belief in death, and cynicism, and no hope for the future.

I haven't read a lot of Marx, have you? However, I do have a fine leather bound, and guilded copy of "The Paris Commune" in my library, and no where does he mention Darwin that I am aware of.

[TAP]

(I will not speak further about  my dad's position for his own sake, I am nothing but an embaressment to him),

That's the only part of your post which makes sense.