The frustration thread - about Chinese Democracy

[polluxlm]

I mean honestly guys, I think the signs are all here to be read pretty plainly.

The band toured Europe; Axl was planning for a 2006 release. ?The album, as always, is likely pretty close to being done at this time, but he's afraid to let it go after all these years of anticipation; the guy wants it to be perfect.

They schedule the first of the non-warm-up dates in Sept/Early Oct. -- figuring the record will be done by then. ?Still planning on an 06 release.

Axl can't finish it in time; he probably doesn't feel it's a rush. ?However, the shows aren't selling out across the board -- without a new record to push, most of the general public outside this forum thinks of the current lineup as a cover band, and good reviews aside, don't take it seriously. ?It WILL take a new record to make them a viable band in their own right. ?Merck knows this. ?So the band reschedules all the first round dates for late in the year, or 2007, essentially buying Axl another month to finish the record. ?

This has become a fiscal imperative at this point -- if the tour flops, GNR is screwed, for real this time. ?And without this record, the tour is flopping. ?They start saying, "there are xx tuesdays left, blahblahblah..."... ?They can't say WHEN the record is going to be released because it's not even done yet.

Then these new cancellations this week. ?All this tells us is that the record STILL isn't done.

Yeah, that's right -- it's STILL not done, AND they're rushing it. ?Rushing it out the door to better cash in on the tour money machine, b/c that is where the band makes it's real money -- it sure as hell isn't going to get anything off of the "Chinese Democracy" itself (which will never turn a profit).

I'm as big a fan as the next guy, but this a) doesn't look promising, because Axl simply can't finish the thing, and b) the fact that after this long they're rushing it out to make this deadline... well it's a bit of a bummer. ?I got to see them at the Hammerstein, which was amazing, but this current situation truly sucks.

(oh, and btw, everybody with the "axl can do whatever he wants, GNR doesn't work the same way as the rest of industry, screw the system, blahblahblah" rhetoric... please give it a rest. ?Axl isn't putting out this record -- Geffen/Interscope is. ?And Axl owes them $13million dollars essentially for the recording of this album. ?He could want to distribute the record from the back of a kiddie rape van across the streets of suburban america wearing a clown suit... but there's no way in hell the record co. would let him. ?They want to maximize their investment -- and that means this album willl come out on a TUESDAY, through regular record stores, and you WILL KNOW ABOUT IT in advance. ?Think it through.)

Good thinking. As soon as Axl declares himself finished to the record company they will set a release and let the press know. What's probably going on now is a day to day struggle. Axl needs another week, fails to deliever, just needs a couple more days and so on. I'm guessing Axl has to the end of the week to finish. If not, well then I guess alot of persons are in a bit of a trouble. The upside to this is off course that a release could be forced. I see no problem with this. It's been almost 10 years, it's ready enough.

[kriss_boy]

Some people have to come to grips with reality. Guns N' Roses is not a huge band anymore. The fanbase isn't gigantic.

Are you kidding? Your posting on one of the busiest band forums on the net. Your talking about a band whose albums still pop up in top 40 album charts 10/15 years after their release. Your talking about a band who nailed a European tour at the drop of a hat.

A band whose front man only has to show up at the VMAs to introduce a band and still gets the biggest standing ovation.

VRs success was built on a firm internet fan base which increased with some good tv appearences and a bitchin tour. GnR will do the same but on a bigger scale because Guns n Roses is Guns n Roses.

Theres a demand for GnR... and why the hell do I keep hearing JayZ!!!! gnR and jayZ dont share the same audience so why the hell is it a big threat?!?!?!?! What proportion of music buyers are gona stand their with JayZ in one hand and GnR in the other deciding which to buy?!?!

[elevendayempire]

Why do people keep bringing up Jay-Z? Because how fucking stupid will Axl look if, having created an album which has cost 1) $13 million, 2) over a decade of his life and 3) the classic line-up of an iconic band, that album is beaten into the #2 slot by a rapper? If Jay-Z's album beats Axl into second place, Axl will be a fucking laughing stock, and you don't want that, do you?

SG

[kriss_boy]

Why do people keep bringing up Jay-Z? Because how fucking stupid will Axl look if, having created an album which has cost 1) $13 million, 2) over a decade of his life and 3) the classic line-up of an iconic band, that album is beaten into the #2 slot by a rapper? If Jay-Z's album beats Axl into second place, Axl will be a fucking laughing stock, and you don't want that, do you?

SG

Are you insane?!?!!? RAP and rock are completely different Genres with different audiences?!?!?! Theres no comparison. RAP music is more popular in the states anyway so its always going to beat a rock album.

Why the hell do people care if the record goes to number 1?!?!? A real fan just wants the records for themselves and wouldnt care less if it went to number 1 or 2.

[knut]

All that's needed for the album to go #1 is a massive mainstream hit that came from word-of-mouth.

[The General]

Lets hope this album dont sell, i dont want to share it with rock students and teens. Lets hope we can enjoy the album alone.

[Meanmachine22]

Why do people keep bringing up Jay-Z? Because how fucking stupid will Axl look if, having created an album which has cost 1) $13 million, 2) over a decade of his life and 3) the classic line-up of an iconic band, that album is beaten into the #2 slot by a rapper? If Jay-Z's album beats Axl into second place, Axl will be a fucking laughing stock, and you don't want that, do you?

SG

HORSESHIT!!!!!!
Like stated before : Rap and Rock anre 2 different pairs of shoes.
You can not avoid competition anyway. The lebel will release it this year and will come over us like a fucking tornado

[elevendayempire]

Why do people keep bringing up Jay-Z? Because how fucking stupid will Axl look if, having created an album which has cost 1) $13 million, 2) over a decade of his life and 3) the classic line-up of an iconic band, that album is beaten into the #2 slot by a rapper? If Jay-Z's album beats Axl into second place, Axl will be a fucking laughing stock, and you don't want that, do you?

SG

Are you insane?!?!!? RAP and rock are completely different Genres with different audiences?!?!?! Theres no comparison. RAP music is more popular in the states anyway so its always going to beat a rock album.

Er, yes, that's my point. So the album mustn't go up against Jay-Z.

Why the hell do people care if the record goes to number 1?!?!? A real fan just wants the records for themselves and wouldnt care less if it went to number 1 or 2.

This "a real fan just wants the album for themselves" crap is the last refuge of someone who's trying to come to terms with the idea that the album will be a commercial flop. I won't accept that. As a fan of the band, I want to see this album succeed; I want to see it at number 1 and I want as many people as possible to be touched by it. Now, that's only going to happen if it gets positive press; if it opens at number 2 to Jay-Z, it's going to be yet another stick for the critical music press to beat Axl with.

Not all criticism is aimed at beating Axl down; this is called constructive criticism, people. Some of us want to see the band succeed, and are offering up suggestions that might help the band in that aim. Like, say, not flying in the face of 40-odd years of precedent and trying to drop your comeback album with no promotion. Others are blindly claiming that "Axl knows best" and that no decision he makes can ever, ever be wrong (and if you disagree with him he'll come and whup your ass, because to these people, Axl is the avatar of all their silly, pent-up adolescent rage).

SG

[elevendayempire]

HORSESHIT!!!!!!
Like stated before : Rap and Rock anre 2 different pairs of shoes.
You can not avoid competition anyway. The lebel will release it this year and will come over us like a fucking tornado

Thanks for confirming my point about that pent-up adolescent rage. The album will not come over us like a fucking tornado if it's released with No. Fucking. Promotion. Monthly music mags are working on their November issues, and they don't know about ChiDem (I know this for a fact, as I was speaking to the editor of a monthly music magazine the other day...). TV stations are prepping their November schedules, and need to make space for GN'R specials and the like. There is, at the moment, no buzz among the wider public about this album, and that needs to be turned around. I want this band to succeed. It will not succeed if the album's released against a major rap comeback and is beaten into second place. Which it will be, because there are more COCKING rap fans than rock fans. This will create negative buzz in the media. This is a Bad Thing. Can you understand this? These are pretty simple concepts we're dealing with, here.

SG

[TOPGUNner]

I'm not going to say the album will or will not come out, because truly, none of us know, but as far as competition...think about what's out right now for pure rock and roll....NOTHING. If Chinese Democracy came out tomorrow, it would do well because rock and roll CD's these days are nill. And if it came out on the same day as Jay-Z's new CD it would still sell well because there are 2 different audiences who buy those albums.

[elevendayempire]

I'm not going to say the album will or will not come out, because truly, none of us know, but as far as competition...think about what's out right now for pure rock and roll....NOTHING. If Chinese Democracy came out tomorrow, it would do well because rock and roll CD's these days are nill. And if it came out on the same day as Jay-Z's new CD it would still sell well because there are 2 different audiences who buy those albums.

Yes, that's lovely, there are two seperate audiences, but unforuntately, ChiDem's audience is smaller than Jay-Z's. Opening in second place is unacceptable; the media will talk it up into a battle of the comeback albums, GN'R will lose out, and it'll create negative buzz. This must not happen. I'd still go along with a November 14th release, but it's an awfully tight window for promotion...

SG

[TOPGUNner]

I'm not going to say the album will or will not come out, because truly, none of us know, but as far as competition...think about what's out right now for pure rock and roll....NOTHING. If Chinese Democracy came out tomorrow, it would do well because rock and roll CD's these days are nill. And if it came out on the same day as Jay-Z's new CD it would still sell well because there are 2 different audiences who buy those albums.

Yes, that's lovely, there are two seperate audiences, but unforuntately, ChiDem's audience is smaller than Jay-Z's. Opening in second place is unacceptable; the media will talk it up into a battle of the comeback albums, GN'R will lose out, and it'll create negative buzz. This must not happen. I'd still go along with a November 14th release, but it's an awfully tight window for promotion...

SG

Opening up in 2nd place is a loss?!? I think not! Bon Jovi's Have a Nice Day album opened up 2nd to Disturbed's 10,000 Fists. Did Bon Jovi lose? I think not, they've sold tons of more copies of the albums and played to huge arenas in support of the CD.

If Guns N' Roses opens in 2nd, it means nothing except another CD sold better. First week sales don't mean anything. In the music industry, it's longevity

[JDA]

I really thought that we would get an annoucment for the the cd this week and now I don't think that will happen.  I know there is still 5 days left in the week but I thought they would do it on a Monday or Tues.  I really think this is a huge mistake if they do not have a release date before they go on tour.  GN'R needs something new in the act.  I love the new guys and think they have a huge potential with this band but they need to take advantage of oppurtunities and they have never done it with this GN'R. 

[Axl4Prez2004]

^^^
I don't know about that.  To me, it's kind of like a card game.  You can't lose if you never get in the game.     Plus, the tour hasn't started yet. 

That thought aside...don't worry, the announcement's coming.  So many possibilities.  Who knows what they'll do!  The World Series Game 1 is Saturday, October 21st in Detroit.  The album is coming this year.  This band is amazing!  I'm on Cloud 9.    

East Rutherford's gonna fucking rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  See you all there!!!        

[charlesfosterkane]

i'm stunned that this is so (if its so.) for one, axl knows he needs to get his record out there to sell tickets. he can't play a nostalgia tour like motley crue because he doesn't have the original members. his band wasn't put together to tour around and play the old tunes-- they were put together to record new music and play that new music (bumblefoot is only in the band to play buckethead's parts.) and these new guys want to play their music, too. they're tired of being called a cover band.

i don't know the story of what is going on but they've had a lot of time to figure this out, so i'm stunned when we don't hear anything and dates are getting shifted like they're doing so much on the fly.

[no more patience]

if they dont release the CD before the new year...
my days as a gnr fan may be affected

[Loaded NightraiN]

The whole way they're going all about this is a big mistake....

[leatherebel]

I predict this thread will be soon deleted.....

There are some valid points though, I have to agree.

[Steel_Angel]

they probably havent even finished the record yet

[polluxlm]

they probably havent even finished the record yet

Yes, that fact is becoming more and more obvious. The reason for the continued postponments is obviously because the record still isn't done. Axl probably's got a deadline till the end of the week to wrap it up. It that doesn't happen, well I really don't want to think down that track.