The frustration thread - about Chinese Democracy

[phi_kai_phi]

Good luck as MSG.  The shows are great.  Unfortunately, that's all we're likely going to see this year.  I was around during the silence....  the reason why I care is because this album keeps seeming like it's going to come so close....


People are certain that "This time will be it" and keep making up excuses like "by next week we'll have to see something".... every week.  By the time it's too late people have already kind of accepted that they'll have to keep waiting.  You know what, I already have.  And it seems like there are more and more people starting to feel like spring 06 will be their best bet.

[IndiannaRose]

Hello everyone....  I don't doubt the album will come out sometime within the next year, hopefully.  But at this point it seems commercially stupid to put out the album.  No promotion now means that the album couldn't drop for over a month. 

You're not right - at all. All we need is a single two weeks prior to the album release, a video release in between that time frame, and the use of an external media outlet (i.e. HBO, the Tonight Show, MTV, etc...).

So, yeah, this thread is just bleh.

[phi_kai_phi]

Hello everyone....  I don't doubt the album will come out sometime within the next year, hopefully.  But at this point it seems commercially stupid to put out the album.  No promotion now means that the album couldn't drop for over a month. 

You're not right - at all. All we need is a single two weeks prior to the album release, a video release in between that time frame, and the use of an external media outlet (i.e. HBO, the Tonight Show, MTV, etc...).

So, yeah, this thread is just bleh.

You're joking, right?  Are you waiting for a Brittany Spears album or something?  GNR has a lot of promotional work to do to get people interested in them again.  I really doubt that two weeks are going to be all the time we get for advance notice for this thing.  GNR may be unusual but even if they are the record company isn't suicidal, so to speak.  A month is the minimum notice that this band needs to get people to remember who they are, get amped and curious for the album, and be interested in the new material.

[IndiannaRose]

Hello everyone....  I don't doubt the album will come out sometime within the next year, hopefully.  But at this point it seems commercially stupid to put out the album.  No promotion now means that the album couldn't drop for over a month. 

You're not right - at all. All we need is a single two weeks prior to the album release, a video release in between that time frame, and the use of an external media outlet (i.e. HBO, the Tonight Show, MTV, etc...).

So, yeah, this thread is just bleh.

You're joking, right?  Are you waiting for a Brittany Spears album or something?  GNR has a lot of promotional work to do to get people interested in them again.  I really doubt that two weeks are going to be all the time we get for advance notice for this thing.  GNR may be unusual but even if they are the record company isn't suicidal, so to speak.  A month is the minimum notice that this band needs to get people to remember who they are, get amped and curious for the album, and be interested in the new material.

Yes, I'm joking. Ahauhauhauahuahau! Wait...why aren't you laughing?

Oh yeah, cause I'm not joking.

Promotional work can squeeze in between late October and early November for a mid-November release. Although, if they wanna do things right and not just for the sake of convenience a single should be released on the opening week of the tour.

My point still stands though. It is not too late.

Not at all.

[GNRfan2008]

Hello everyone....  I don't doubt the album will come out sometime within the next year, hopefully.  But at this point it seems commercially stupid to put out the album.  No promotion now means that the album couldn't drop for over a month. 

You're not right - at all. All we need is a single two weeks prior to the album release, a video release in between that time frame, and the use of an external media outlet (i.e. HBO, the Tonight Show, MTV, etc...).

So, yeah, this thread is just bleh.

You're joking, right?  Are you waiting for a Brittany Spears album or something?  GNR has a lot of promotional work to do to get people interested in them again.  I really doubt that two weeks are going to be all the time we get for advance notice for this thing.  GNR may be unusual but even if they are the record company isn't suicidal, so to speak.  A month is the minimum notice that this band needs to get people to remember who they are, get amped and curious for the album, and be interested in the new material.

Remember who they are? There's only one original member. The general public considers them a JOKE. I think Axl would rather go the low-key approach instead of shoving it down people's throats. Let the MUSIC remind people of how great he is/was and let the album start off solid b/c of die-hards, but then explode a 6 months to a year from its release with some huge hit single similar to SCOM. If you market the crap out of the band and the first single isn't that great, then no one will give a rat's ass and they'll just laugh at them as being "Axl and his tribute band."

[phi_kai_phi]

WHY THE FUCK are people so ignorant? 

People. People.  It's okay that you're still fans and are excited for the album.  It's okay to have a positive attitude.  Heck... I do have a positive feeling the album will be out sometime within the year and be great.

BUT THINK rationally.  I'm not saying that the half of the people on this board expecting to see CD this year are stupid, but they should accept the fact that it doesn't look good, and the circumstances show that it looks like we'll be seeing it sometime after the year end.

Think.  That's all I ask.  Some people get it, others don't.

[IndiannaRose]

WHY THE FUCK are people so ignorant? 

People. People.  It's okay that you're still fans and are excited for the album.  It's okay to have a positive attitude.  Heck... I do have a positive feeling the album will be out sometime within the year and be great.

BUT THINK rationally.  I'm not saying that the half of the people on this board expecting to see CD this year are stupid, but they should accept the fact that it doesn't look good, and the circumstances show that it looks like we'll be seeing it sometime after the year end.

Think.  That's all I ask.  Some people get it, others don't.

I really hope you're not talking to me.

[GNRfan2008]

WHY THE FUCK are people so ignorant? 

People. People.  It's okay that you're still fans and are excited for the album.  It's okay to have a positive attitude.  Heck... I do have a positive feeling the album will be out sometime within the year and be great.

BUT THINK rationally.  I'm not saying that the half of the people on this board expecting to see CD this year are stupid, but they should accept the fact that it doesn't look good, and the circumstances show that it looks like we'll be seeing it sometime after the year end.

Think.  That's all I ask.  Some people get it, others don't.

I'm hoping that's not directed at me. I personally am not expecting anything. Would I like to think that "Uncle Axl" could be telling the truth with his 'fall/late fall' claims? Hell yeah. But his record in the past, as you noted in your original post, doesn't indicate a guy that's all that great at sticking to his promises. I merely think that when and if it's EVER released, it will not be forced down people's throats like most stuff. Like I said before, this band is considered a joke right now and marketing them like crazy will do no good unless they have a kickass first single to PROVE to all the disenchanted ex-GN'R fans that Axl still kicks ass. I just think the general reaction to generalized mass marketing of the album will be tears of laughter from many folks (and tears of joy from us die-hards, but that's another story).

[jameslofton29]

I do have a positive feeling the album will be out sometime within the year and be great.

What? Read the fucking title of your thread. Now you're changing opinion mid thread?

WHY THE FUCK are people so ignorant?

Instead of asking people here that question, maybe you should look in the mirror and ask it.

[Bandita]

WHY THE FUCK are people so ignorant??

People. People.? It's okay that you're still fans and are excited for the album.? It's okay to have a positive attitude.? Heck... I do have a positive feeling the album will be out sometime within the year and be great.

BUT THINK rationally.? I'm not saying that the half of the people on this board expecting to see CD this year are stupid, but they should accept the fact that it doesn't look good, and the circumstances show that it looks like we'll be seeing it sometime after the year end.

Think.? That's all I ask.? Some people get it, others don't.

I really hope you're not talking to me.

I'd like to think he is talking to himself. ?In his 1st post he correlated Axl's late arrival on stage to the release date of CD, two things that have nothing to do with each other. ?At that point I could not take anything in this argument seriously but rather as someone who likes to see their type on the screen.

I do have a positive feeling the album will be out sometime within the year and be great.

What? Read the fucking title of your thread. Now you're changing opinion mid thread?

WHY THE FUCK are people so ignorant?

Instead of asking people here that question, maybe you should look in the mirror and ask it.

Yup, what james said!

[GNRfan2008]

I do have a positive feeling the album will be out sometime within the year and be great.

What? Read the fucking title of your thread. Now you're changing opinion mid thread?

WHY THE FUCK are people so ignorant?

Instead of asking people here that question, maybe you should look in the mirror and ask it.

I think he means within the year FROM NOW (aka by October 2007).

[IndiannaRose]

Here's a list of artists with albums scheduled for release on November 7th (a date that's actually ahead of GN'R's rational impact date):

   Avalon, Mickey

   Bocelli, Andrea

   Bowling For Soup

   Cale, J.J./Clapton, Eric

   Dave Matthews Band

   Dredg

   Departed (O.S.T.)

   Foo Fighters

   Franklin, Kirk

   A Good Year (O.S.T.)

   Groban, Josh

   Jones, Jim
   
   Kweli, Talib
   
   Martin, Ricky

   Mila J
   
   Mozella

   MTV Presents Laguna Beach: Summer Can Last Forever (O.S.T.)

   Now That's What I Call Music! Vol.23 (various)

   Styx

   Sugarland

Have any of you seen any actual promotion for any of these albums? Hmm, minimal at best. People, chill out. You'll see it soon enough.

[bDinan]

Some people have to come to grips with reality. Guns N' Roses is not a huge band anymore. The fanbase isn't gigantic. Chinese Democracy is not going to sell out. There isn't going to be an overwhelming pre-order demand. There will not be any long lines going around the block of your local best buy/record store/etc...

For one, the fanbase is not diverse enough. At most of the shows I have went to(Hammerstein x4, Vegas 01, MSG 02) the fanbase is predominantly 20-35 year old white people. Not as if that is bad, but its not going to attract many younger kids, its not going to win over many American minorities, and its certainly not going to appeal to most of the 40+ age group, especially with an all new lineup.

Financially, it will bomb. Will it do well- yes. But not well enough given the expectations. Its obvious some people here, and elsewhere expect this record to go 10x platinum. Highly unlikely. It will go platinum. I trust GnR's fanbase is not only big enough, but LOYAL enough to get it to that point by any means necessary... and the raw hype, along with the quality may eventually push it to 2-3 times platinum. I think expecting any more than that is unrealistic.

GnR needs to stay loyal to the fanbase they have. Tour. Sell Merchandise. Have some contests on the website... maybe a few public appearances(CD signings)... would it hurt? Probably not. I know its probably not Axl's style, but the guy isn't the super duper star he once was, and could use a little good publicity.

While GNR doesn't have the gigantic fanbase they once had, the fanbase they do have(us) is large enough for the CD to have moderate success, and the band as an entity could be very successful over a longer span if they continue to spread the word, and get out on the road, and play some music. The shows aren't selling out, except in smaller venues, and large markets like New York.

I don't know about you, but I'm very supportive as a fan... I didn't go to one vegas show, I went to both. I didn't go to one hammerstein show, I went to all four. I didn't just buy tickets to MSG, I got them to continental too... and if they put on a show in AC, or Nassau, or maybe Philly, I'll go there too. The best thing you can do for the band is continue your own personal loyalty, and not worry about mainstream success, and competition, and all that other bullshit... because if you're going to judge your opinion of the album on that, you're probably gearing up for a disappointment.

I don't care if the record sells one copy, or a billion... as long as that one copy is mine. ?

I do think as a wole picture, the international success will make Chinese Democracy very successful. However, I don't see it doing overwhelmingly well in the US alone.

[polluxlm]

that it looks like we'll be seeing it sometime after the year end.

Atleast we know what that means. If there's not a release date sometime during the tour I'm setting my clock to 2000 and anything. If I hadn't seen the man doing concerts I would definately believe he'd gone crazy. He actually thought he was going to release it some time after 2002, and here we are 4 years later. I mean, what_the_fuck? I'd like to know what happened there.

[NicoRourke]

Why the hell is everyone so afraid of Jay Z...

haha, I know. It's so dumb.

That's something I've never understood.

I see no sign why CD wouldn't be out this year.

[Bandita]

I don't know about you, but I'm very supportive as a fan... I didn't go to one vegas show, I went to both. I didn't go to one hammerstein show, I went to all four. I didn't just buy tickets to MSG, I got them to continental too... and if they put on a show in AC, or Nassau, or maybe Philly, I'll go there too. The best thing you can do for the band is continue your own personal loyalty, and not worry about mainstream success, and competition, and all that other bullshit... because if you're going to judge your opinion of the album on that, you're probably gearing up for a disappointment.

I don't care if the record sells one copy, or a billion... as long as that one copy is mine. ?

I do think as a wole picture, the international success will make Chinese Democracy very successful. However, I don't see it doing overwhelmingly well in the US alone.

Now this is rational thinking. ?Nice post although it will fall mostly on blind eyes.

[GabrielsChains]

I mean honestly guys, I think the signs are all here to be read pretty plainly.

The band toured Europe; Axl was planning for a 2006 release. ?The album, as always, is likely pretty close to being done at this time, but he's afraid to let it go after all these years of anticipation; the guy wants it to be perfect.

They schedule the first of the non-warm-up dates in Sept/Early Oct. -- figuring the record will be done by then. ?Still planning on an 06 release.

Axl can't finish it in time; he probably doesn't feel it's a rush. ?However, the shows aren't selling out across the board -- without a new record to push, most of the general public outside this forum thinks of the current lineup as a cover band, and good reviews aside, don't take it seriously. ?It WILL take a new record to make them a viable band in their own right. ?Merck knows this. ?So the band reschedules all the first round dates for late in the year, or 2007, essentially buying Axl another month to finish the record. ?

This has become a fiscal imperative at this point -- if the tour flops, GNR is screwed, for real this time. ?And without this record, the tour is flopping. ?They start saying, "there are xx tuesdays left, blahblahblah..."... ?They can't say WHEN the record is going to be released because it's not even done yet.

Then these new cancellations this week. ?All this tells us is that the record STILL isn't done.

Yeah, that's right -- it's STILL not done, AND they're rushing it. ?Rushing it out the door to better cash in on the tour money machine, b/c that is where the band makes it's real money -- it sure as hell isn't going to get anything off of the "Chinese Democracy" itself (which will never turn a profit).

I'm as big a fan as the next guy, but this a) doesn't look promising, because Axl simply can't finish the thing, and b) the fact that after this long they're rushing it out to make this deadline... well it's a bit of a bummer. ?I got to see them at the Hammerstein, which was amazing, but this current situation truly sucks.

(oh, and btw, everybody with the "axl can do whatever he wants, GNR doesn't work the same way as the rest of industry, screw the system, blahblahblah" rhetoric... please give it a rest. ?Axl isn't putting out this record -- Geffen/Interscope is. ?And Axl owes them $13million dollars essentially for the recording of this album. ?He could want to distribute the record from the back of a kiddie rape van across the streets of suburban america wearing a clown suit... but there's no way in hell the record co. would let him. ?They want to maximize their investment -- and that means this album willl come out on a TUESDAY, through regular record stores, and you WILL KNOW ABOUT IT in advance. ?Think it through.)

[Mattattack]

I think you guys are really underestimating Axl and GnR when it comes to going head to head with Jay Z. If Axl can put out a first single that rocks as hard as Jungle or YCBM, I think he can take out JayZ. Axl's music has the potential to cross generations and it has such an aura of mystique. Chinese Democracy is like the holy grail of albums and we're all searching for immortality!

[ckgent]

Way to be negative with this subject matter.

Jesus, there has been competition for the band from the start, look at all the bands that came out of hollywood at the same time, who is still around, playing areanas, stadiums etc all without the aid of a new album??

Regardless as to the promotion, i know the band have my backing. They dont need to be the biggest selling band on the planet. If they release an album that appeals to some peoples tase, or noones, then so be it. I aint into them for the album to be huge, im into them for the music.

Promotion, look at the size of the tour!!!!!

[GNRfan2008]

Some people have to come to grips with reality. Guns N' Roses is not a huge band anymore. The fanbase isn't gigantic. Chinese Democracy is not going to sell out. There isn't going to be an overwhelming pre-order demand. There will not be any long lines going around the block of your local best buy/record store/etc...

For one, the fanbase is not diverse enough. At most of the shows I have went to(Hammerstein x4, Vegas 01, MSG 02) the fanbase is predominantly 20-35 year old white people. Not as if that is bad, but its not going to attract many younger kids, its not going to win over many American minorities, and its certainly not going to appeal to most of the 40+ age group, especially with an all new lineup.

Financially, it will bomb. Will it do well- yes. But not well enough given the expectations. Its obvious some people here, and elsewhere expect this record to go 10x platinum. Highly unlikely. It will go platinum. I trust GnR's fanbase is not only big enough, but LOYAL enough to get it to that point by any means necessary... and the raw hype, along with the quality may eventually push it to 2-3 times platinum. I think expecting any more than that is unrealistic.

GnR needs to stay loyal to the fanbase they have. Tour. Sell Merchandise. Have some contests on the website... maybe a few public appearances(CD signings)... would it hurt? Probably not. I know its probably not Axl's style, but the guy isn't the super duper star he once was, and could use a little good publicity.

While GNR doesn't have the gigantic fanbase they once had, the fanbase they do have(us) is large enough for the CD to have moderate success, and the band as an entity could be very successful over a longer span if they continue to spread the word, and get out on the road, and play some music. The shows aren't selling out, except in smaller venues, and large markets like New York.

I don't know about you, but I'm very supportive as a fan... I didn't go to one vegas show, I went to both. I didn't go to one hammerstein show, I went to all four. I didn't just buy tickets to MSG, I got them to continental too... and if they put on a show in AC, or Nassau, or maybe Philly, I'll go there too. The best thing you can do for the band is continue your own personal loyalty, and not worry about mainstream success, and competition, and all that other bullshit... because if you're going to judge your opinion of the album on that, you're probably gearing up for a disappointment.

I don't care if the record sells one copy, or a billion... as long as that one copy is mine. 

I do think as a wole picture, the international success will make Chinese Democracy very successful. However, I don't see it doing overwhelmingly well in the US alone.

Good post, man. I completely agree. Everyone who thinks that this thing should be mass-marketed and shoved down the public's throat is absolutely wrong (unless the first single is something ridiculously great, like a WTTJ or SCOM type song). The public in general will laugh their asses off if this thing is marketed a ton. They should let the initial surge of the die-hards take care of first week sales, then let it sort of become a more obscure album and drop a bomb similar to SCOM about 6 months or later after the release. Then it'll rocket back up the charts (if the song has wide-reaching appeal). The low-key approach is the way to go. Many die-hards will be buying multiple copies of it due to the long wait and the legendary status of CD as the most infamous album ever. That'll take care of first week sales, but the best way to really sell a ton of records is to NOT release your biggest hit first. AFD exploded because of SCOM like a year after the release. That is the approach they need.