The frustration thread - about Chinese Democracy

[oldgunsfan]

it was just a recap; stating the facts

Facts?

You're basically saying that everything is crap and that it's 2002 all over again.

I just need to know when you will be happy with the situation, so please answer my question.

This is the frustration thread isn't it?  And I never once compared this to 2002, that was all you

but i will be happy to listen to CD when it is finally released; the curiosity is killing me

[CSS]

This is the frustration thread isn't it?

I know, and I'm in frustration too!

I just wanted an answer to my question, and I got it.

[ClintroN]

BULLSHIT!!......BULLSHIT!!......BULLSHIT!!.......BULLSHIT!!

theres my fuckin' rant Axl.

[ClintroN]

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ibelieveinaxl]

is it fair to say its not coming out in 2007? im sure we will be having the same discussion in december 2008....

[Malcolm]

There's something missing this holiday season, and it's not just the lack of inclement weather.

For the first time in years, nobody is spreading rumors about the imminent arrival of a new Guns N' Roses album. "Chinese Democracy," which has been on the verge of coming out for the better part of a decade, currently has no pre-release buzz, a fact that makes us want to start a rumor right now. Things are a little bit too quiet ...

At this point, though, it might be better if the album didn't come out. A release of "Chinese Democracy" would be like O.J. Simpson suddenly finding the real killer. Aging metal-heads' hearts would give out. Stock markets would crash. MTV newsman Kurt Loder would probably have to stop working, and so would Larry King. (At this point, does anyone doubt that they're the same person?)

When Peanuts creator Charles Schulz announced his retirement in the late 1990s, there was much talk about his final strip. One popular prediction was that Charlie Brown would finally get to kick the football - advice that Schulz very wisely didn't take. If Charlie Brown kicked the football, it would undo 50 years of good comics with one bad one.

That's exactly how I feel about "Chinese Democracy." We, the remaining Guns N' Roses fan base, are Charlie Brown. The album is the football. And Axl Rose is Lucy, repeatedly setting deadlines he knows he'll never make, because the public is gullible enough to believe him. (I think Slash is Schroeder in this analogy, and Stephanie Seymour is the Little Red-Haired Girl, although I haven't totally thought that part out.)

The last time Rose announced a "tentative" release date of March 2007, no less than three dozen different news agencies reported it, including the Chicago Tribune, Hollywood Reporter and Agence France-Presse. March 2007 has come and gone, and here we are, still clutching worn-out copies of "Lose Your Illusion II" to our chests, waiting anxiously for the next rumor. There's something that's so sweet and human about the whole charade.

Below is a brief timeline, culled from a three-hour-long LexisNexis search, which contains just a fraction of the "Chinese Democracy" fake-outs that fans have endured. A new GNR album has been rumored to be in the works since 1994, but purists consider the "Chinese Democracy" AD mark to be late 1999, when the name of the new album was announced.

Nov. 7, 1999: Guns N' Roses manager Doug Goldstein says "Chinese Democracy" is nearly complete, and should be out in early 2000. "It's not entirely indicative of what the album's going to be," he says of "Oh My God," a Guns track that appears on the soundtrack to "End of Days," a 1999 action picture starring Arnold Schwarzenegger. "It's a song that seemed to fit the movie."

January 2000: Rolling Stone magazine interviews Rose and reports that the new album is penciled in for a summer 2000 release. "I'd like to take some of the old Guns fans along with me into the 21st Century," Rose tells the magazine.

May 11, 2001: The New York Daily News quotes an "insider," who says the album is basically done. "The album has been finished to everybody else's satisfaction for over a year now," the source says. "But Axl keeps going back to remix it and add vocals."

November 2002: Guns N' Roses keyboard player Dizzy Reed tells the Cleveland Plain Dealer that the album should be out by summer 2003. "There are just a few odds and ends left to do - a couple of finishing touches, a couple of vocals - and we need to mix it," Reed says.

Aug. 21, 2003: Guns N' Roses bass player Tommy Stinson tells the Albany Times-Union that work on the album has "been going great." "It's closer to the end of the record being completed than the beginning," he says. "... I'm not drinking the company Kool-Aid on all that. That's all straight info. I guarantee that the album's coming out. Hopefully it'll be out sometime before the end of the year."

April 5, 2004: After new Guns N' Roses guitarist Buckethead quits, Rose says in a release, "We hope to announce a release date within the next few months."

January 2006: On a Philadelphia radio show, former Guns guitarist Slash says of "Chinese Democracy," "It's coming out in March ... I've been told a lot of things over the years, but it definitely sounds like it's coming out in March."

January 2006: Rose tells Rolling Stone that the band is working on 32 songs, with 13 expected to make the final cut. "People will hear the music this year," he says.

November 2006: Several publications report that the album will be released by the end of the year, with the band's Web site strongly suggesting it will be released on a Tuesday in November or December.

Dec. 15, 2006: Rose puts a statement on the official Guns N' Roses Web site, announcing a tentative March 6, 2007, release date. "To say the making of this album has been an unbearably long and incomprehensible journey would be an understatement," Rose says.

March 2007 passed, and we haven't heard another definitive word about the album, which reportedly has accumulated more than $10 million in recording costs. Meanwhile, the band continued on a short world tour in June and July.

Whatever minor inconvenience Guns N' Roses fans are enduring, I feel much more sympathy for W. Axl Rose, whose life at this point must be like Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day." (Axl's Journal: Clock radio wakes me up at noon. That f- Velvet Revolver song is on again ... Come to the slow realization that for the 3,126th day, "Chinese Democracy" isn't done ... Have breakfast with Andie MacDowell and Chris Elliot ...)

The delay of the album, which was frustrating at first, has become a more entertaining spectacle than anything that could possibly be on the album. Every generation has its crazy musicians, and for the children of the 1980s, Axl Rose is definitely our heaviest hitter. Although the unreleased GNR album hasn't yet approached the madness surrounding Brian Wilson's 37-years-in-the-making "Smile," I'm definitely rooting for it to break the record. If "Chinese Democracy" comes out a year before 2031, it will be too soon.

It's also hard to feel like I'm missing out on new Guns N' Roses, because I've already heard most of the content. Between the songs that have already commercial airplay, the tracks I've heard in concert (Axl has been playing "Chinese Democracy" content since a 2001 Guns tour) and a mysterious Internet download that arrived on my desk in CD form last year, I feel like I've listened to the entire album three or four times. I've certainly listened to more of the new album than "The Spaghetti Incident," the last GNR album, which came out in 1993.

The "Chinese Democracy" tracks that have surfaced offer no clues as to why the album has been delayed so long. The songs are actually not that bad. And other than a slight industrial edge (and an exodus of nearly every band member other than Rose), it barely differs from the last two original Guns N' Roses albums. "Chinese Democracy" could be "Use Your Illusion III."

Even if it's another "Appetite for Destruction," it can't possibly eclipse the fun journalists have had writing about the album. My search revealed at least a dozen different writers who used the same punch line, speculating whether there will be a democracy in China before we see "Chinese Democracy."

Axl Rose may get wrinkly and gray before his next album drops, but that joke will never, ever grow old.

[flicknn]

So....Is there a album titled chinese democracy after all?

[ibelieveinaxl]

good post up there malcolm...thing is, contrary to some beliefs, the album is not done (will it ever be?) and it has not been handed into the label...

[leatherebel]

There's something missing this holiday season, and it's not just the lack of inclement weather.

For the first time in years, nobody is spreading rumors about the imminent arrival of a new Guns N' Roses album. "Chinese Democracy," which has been on the verge of coming out for the better part of a decade, currently has no pre-release buzz, a fact that makes us want to start a rumor right now. Things are a little bit too quiet ...

At this point, though, it might be better if the album didn't come out. A release of "Chinese Democracy" would be like O.J. Simpson suddenly finding the real killer. Aging metal-heads' hearts would give out. Stock markets would crash. MTV newsman Kurt Loder would probably have to stop working, and so would Larry King. (At this point, does anyone doubt that they're the same person?)

When Peanuts creator Charles Schulz announced his retirement in the late 1990s, there was much talk about his final strip. One popular prediction was that Charlie Brown would finally get to kick the football - advice that Schulz very wisely didn't take. If Charlie Brown kicked the football, it would undo 50 years of good comics with one bad one.

That's exactly how I feel about "Chinese Democracy." We, the remaining Guns N' Roses fan base, are Charlie Brown. The album is the football. And Axl Rose is Lucy, repeatedly setting deadlines he knows he'll never make, because the public is gullible enough to believe him. (I think Slash is Schroeder in this analogy, and Stephanie Seymour is the Little Red-Haired Girl, although I haven't totally thought that part out.)

The last time Rose announced a "tentative" release date of March 2007, no less than three dozen different news agencies reported it, including the Chicago Tribune, Hollywood Reporter and Agence France-Presse. March 2007 has come and gone, and here we are, still clutching worn-out copies of "Lose Your Illusion II" to our chests, waiting anxiously for the next rumor. There's something that's so sweet and human about the whole charade.

Below is a brief timeline, culled from a three-hour-long LexisNexis search, which contains just a fraction of the "Chinese Democracy" fake-outs that fans have endured. A new GNR album has been rumored to be in the works since 1994, but purists consider the "Chinese Democracy" AD mark to be late 1999, when the name of the new album was announced.

Nov. 7, 1999: Guns N' Roses manager Doug Goldstein says "Chinese Democracy" is nearly complete, and should be out in early 2000. "It's not entirely indicative of what the album's going to be," he says of "Oh My God," a Guns track that appears on the soundtrack to "End of Days," a 1999 action picture starring Arnold Schwarzenegger. "It's a song that seemed to fit the movie."

January 2000: Rolling Stone magazine interviews Rose and reports that the new album is penciled in for a summer 2000 release. "I'd like to take some of the old Guns fans along with me into the 21st Century," Rose tells the magazine.

May 11, 2001: The New York Daily News quotes an "insider," who says the album is basically done. "The album has been finished to everybody else's satisfaction for over a year now," the source says. "But Axl keeps going back to remix it and add vocals."

November 2002: Guns N' Roses keyboard player Dizzy Reed tells the Cleveland Plain Dealer that the album should be out by summer 2003. "There are just a few odds and ends left to do - a couple of finishing touches, a couple of vocals - and we need to mix it," Reed says.

Aug. 21, 2003: Guns N' Roses bass player Tommy Stinson tells the Albany Times-Union that work on the album has "been going great." "It's closer to the end of the record being completed than the beginning," he says. "... I'm not drinking the company Kool-Aid on all that. That's all straight info. I guarantee that the album's coming out. Hopefully it'll be out sometime before the end of the year."

April 5, 2004: After new Guns N' Roses guitarist Buckethead quits, Rose says in a release, "We hope to announce a release date within the next few months."

January 2006: On a Philadelphia radio show, former Guns guitarist Slash says of "Chinese Democracy," "It's coming out in March ... I've been told a lot of things over the years, but it definitely sounds like it's coming out in March."

January 2006: Rose tells Rolling Stone that the band is working on 32 songs, with 13 expected to make the final cut. "People will hear the music this year," he says.

November 2006: Several publications report that the album will be released by the end of the year, with the band's Web site strongly suggesting it will be released on a Tuesday in November or December.

Dec. 15, 2006: Rose puts a statement on the official Guns N' Roses Web site, announcing a tentative March 6, 2007, release date. "To say the making of this album has been an unbearably long and incomprehensible journey would be an understatement," Rose says.

March 2007 passed, and we haven't heard another definitive word about the album, which reportedly has accumulated more than $10 million in recording costs. Meanwhile, the band continued on a short world tour in June and July.

Whatever minor inconvenience Guns N' Roses fans are enduring, I feel much more sympathy for W. Axl Rose, whose life at this point must be like Bill Murray in "Groundhog Day." (Axl's Journal: Clock radio wakes me up at noon. That f- Velvet Revolver song is on again ... Come to the slow realization that for the 3,126th day, "Chinese Democracy" isn't done ... Have breakfast with Andie MacDowell and Chris Elliot ...)

The delay of the album, which was frustrating at first, has become a more entertaining spectacle than anything that could possibly be on the album. Every generation has its crazy musicians, and for the children of the 1980s, Axl Rose is definitely our heaviest hitter. Although the unreleased GNR album hasn't yet approached the madness surrounding Brian Wilson's 37-years-in-the-making "Smile," I'm definitely rooting for it to break the record. If "Chinese Democracy" comes out a year before 2031, it will be too soon.

It's also hard to feel like I'm missing out on new Guns N' Roses, because I've already heard most of the content. Between the songs that have already commercial airplay, the tracks I've heard in concert (Axl has been playing "Chinese Democracy" content since a 2001 Guns tour) and a mysterious Internet download that arrived on my desk in CD form last year, I feel like I've listened to the entire album three or four times. I've certainly listened to more of the new album than "The Spaghetti Incident," the last GNR album, which came out in 1993.

The "Chinese Democracy" tracks that have surfaced offer no clues as to why the album has been delayed so long. The songs are actually not that bad. And other than a slight industrial edge (and an exodus of nearly every band member other than Rose), it barely differs from the last two original Guns N' Roses albums. "Chinese Democracy" could be "Use Your Illusion III."

Even if it's another "Appetite for Destruction," it can't possibly eclipse the fun journalists have had writing about the album. My search revealed at least a dozen different writers who used the same punch line, speculating whether there will be a democracy in China before we see "Chinese Democracy."

Axl Rose may get wrinkly and gray before his next album drops, but that joke will never, ever grow old.

Source: San Francisco Chronicle
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/11/27/DD0DTH03G.DTL

[faldor]

That was a pretty funny article, although I disagree with the writer, I'd like to see the album released someday.  That wouldn't kill it for me.  Interesting to read some of the notes because in the years of inactivity I wavered away.  I was away at school back in 1999.  I remember "Oh My God" coming out and I was psyched about that, but I don't remember anticipating Chinese Democracy at that time.  Then the next few years were quiet and they got back to it in 2001.  I took slight notice, but again I was still at school, not until 2002 till I really got back into the swing of things.  I heard the "new" tracks from RIR3, got to see them their 2nd to last show of the abbreviated 2002 North American tour.  I actually had planned to see them in Vegas around New Years, but that was of course cancelled.  So then again a few years of inactivity and giving Velvet Revolver a whirl, till Mike Piazza delivered a snippet of I.R.S.  And ever since 2006 I've been aboard full steam ahead.  I just hope this recent inactivity and silence doesn't lead me down other avenues only to return in a few years time to repeat the cycle.

[Janabis]

Pretty good article. I think it summarizes how most fans feel at this point. To me it felt like the album was a lot closer to release in the year 2000 than it is now, 7 years later.

[Voodoochild]

Lame article. Sounds like he doesn't care much about the music, as he just judged the album by some demos and also loves the hype surrounding the wait. Unfair and unnecessary.

[CaughtMeInaComa]

great article, pretty much sums up the life of a GN'R fan.....
Chinese Democracy Starts....Never!

[ClintroN]

this is fuckin' bullshit, the fact that in 02' they played MTV....who woulda thought it wont come out for 6maybe plus years, im just dirty at the whole thing now, i wont defend axl anymore, i just let people ramble about whatever they think

[ibelieveinaxl]

this is fuckin' bullshit, the fact that in 02' they played MTV....who woulda thought it wont come out for 6maybe plus years, im just dirty at the whole thing now, i wont defend axl anymore, i just let people ramble about whatever they think

yeah, i hear you. i remember thinking when i was @ the vegas show in 2000 and bought the t-shirt with "Chinese Democracy Starts Now" on it. They then played and it was magic and I kept thinking, "wow, this is really gonna happen (the cd, that is..)" Then the year when by and they toured in 2002 and i was thinking , "now it has to happen." Four more years went by and they played Hammerstein and it was amazing. Then I thought, "Come on, it has to happen now, right?" Wrong!

[ClintroN]

OH MY GOD will be 9 years old man!!

8 years since the first show,

9 years since we heard the name chinese democracy!!

6 years after the VMA's show!!? ?then we all got xcited....n' eva since...

Axl doesnt give a fuck....n' neither do i !!? ? ?

[Jim Bob]

i'm so frustrated my vagina hurts   Axl rose hates me    i'm going to go cut my wrists now. 

[bodine]

i'm so frustrated my vagina hurts ? Axl rose hates me ? ?i'm going to go cut my wrists now.?

Don't let the door hit you in the vagina on the way out!!!

[*Timothy*]

i'm so frustrated my vagina hurts   Axl rose hates me    i'm going to go cut my wrists now. 

You might want to get some cream or something for that hurting Vagina.

[freedom78]

i'm so frustrated my vagina hurts   Axl rose hates me    i'm going to go cut my wrists now. 

Very subtle.