Ethnic Cleansing in Palestine. Right now. (Annapolis meeting on 28th)

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Couples months ago, out of the clear blue sky,  a 3 stories building in the city of Hebron was "captured" by Israeli colons and army, right in the middle of a palestinian quarter, next to a muslim cemetary.
Since then, life is hell for the arab passerby. They cannot use their car, need to cross this area by foot, they get spit at, garbage thrown at them. And military force is posted all around.
As usual the building was illegaly "captured" by Israel. The reason behind it : it is a strategic outpost. Elevated, dominating the county on a hill.
In less than 1 month, the building was connected to the Israel electrical system and road blocks have created a secure way in and out.

Previous owner of course tried to take the fact to the justice. Sadly, in this land, the justice is the hand of Israel ... even on palestine matters.

This is called ethnic cleansing.

And THIS is what young israeli are being told : (from the official israeli page of Hebron county http://www.hebron.com/english/article.php?id=351 ) -
" an open letter to condoliza rice on november 6th -
We wish to remind you, Dr. Rice, that in the Bible this land was promised to the Jewish people some 4,000 years ago. Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, purchased Hebron more than 3,800 years ago. The Jews left Egypt in order to go to their country, the Holy Land, the Land of Israel, 3,500 years ago. There they established a state 3,300 years ago. This state became the kingdom of the Jewish King David, 3,000 years ago. The Temple stood in the center of the country, Jerusalem, and after being destroyed by the Babylonians it was rebuilt some 2,000 years ago. In all of those generations, this land was the sole homeland of the Jewish people. Only the Jewish people gave it independence. Only they lent it a distinct identity.
Please bear in mind that by the time Arabs reached this country, it had belonged to the Jews for thousands of years. The Arabs destroyed the country and caused its inhabitants much suffering. They never established an independent state in this country and never contributed a thing to its development. Under Arab rule, most of the country was unpopulated and desolate, covered with marshes and deserts .

People around the world, still believe that when the jews arrived in 1922 the land was empty. In 1922. an empty land.


More important, 20 years have passed since the Oslo agreements. And nothing have changed for the palestinian. It became worst.
Worst of all, since 2001, as the world shifted to a very hard right wing state of mind, blame has been put on these people.

And in a couple days, the west and (some) arab countries will meet in Annapolis to discuss the issue. A day after (29) bush will privately discuss with israeli minister E. Olmert.

This meeting is already nicknamed "Potemkine Village". In 1787, the russian queen Catherine II was invited by her War minister to witness the great land that the army has conquered. The biograph Potemkine started this legend that the war minister had made fake wooden houses along her path to make her believe that all was going well ... And this is exactly what will happen in Annapolis.

The party that was democractically elected by the palestinian (hamas) has been dismissed and of course not invited. The very voice of the palestinian (may we like it or not) won't be heard.
Colonies have continued in this land.
UN report have stated that the number of roadblocks in cisjordania has reached the number of 572, 52% than last year.
Families are moved from their home every day.

The palestinian issue will go down in history as civilized countries supporting the terror state of Israel, led by corrupt politicians, where even in Israel peace-makers are told to shut up.

This annapolis meeting, another false move from the international society to try and stop the madness there.
May i remind you that in a letter from George Bush to A. Sharon in 2004 said :
" as of the light of recent event, and the existence of numbers of israeli settlements (sic), it is unrealistic to think that the result of negotiations for peace will be a simple return to the 1949 peace treaty lines ".

Thus simply dismissing the very idea of biliteral discussion, the very idea of Oslo agreements signed by the world.


Peace, 

[freedom78]

This annapolis meeting, another false move from the international society to try and stop the madness there.
May i remind you that in a letter from George Bush to A. Sharon in 2004 said :
" as of the light of recent event, and the existence of numbers of israeli settlements (sic), it is unrealistic to think that the result of negotiations for peace will be a simple return to the 1949 peace treaty lines ".

Thus simply dismissing the very idea of biliteral discussion, the very idea of Oslo agreements signed by the world.

I'd remind you that the Oslo accords also called for a renunciation of terror by the Palestinians.  While Israel is certainly culpable in this conflict, they are not alone in that fact. 

And THIS is what young israeli are being told : (from the official israeli page of Hebron county http://www.hebron.com/english/article.php?id=351 ) -
" an open letter to condoliza rice on november 6th -
We wish to remind you, Dr. Rice, that in the Bible this land was promised to the Jewish people some 4,000 years ago. Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, purchased Hebron more than 3,800 years ago. The Jews left Egypt in order to go to their country, the Holy Land, the Land of Israel, 3,500 years ago. There they established a state 3,300 years ago. This state became the kingdom of the Jewish King David, 3,000 years ago. The Temple stood in the center of the country, Jerusalem, and after being destroyed by the Babylonians it was rebuilt some 2,000 years ago. In all of those generations, this land was the sole homeland of the Jewish people. Only the Jewish people gave it independence. Only they lent it a distinct identity.
Please bear in mind that by the time Arabs reached this country, it had belonged to the Jews for thousands of years. The Arabs destroyed the country and caused its inhabitants much suffering. They never established an independent state in this country and never contributed a thing to its development. Under Arab rule, most of the country was unpopulated and desolate, covered with marshes and deserts .

Yes, and Muslims claim Jerusalem because of the belief that the Archangel Gabriel gave Muhammed a flying horse to take him to the Temple Mount. 

Anyone (Jew, Muslim, Christian...whatever!) fighting based on claims made in allegorical books that are hundreds and thousands of years old needs a reality check. 

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Thanks for your answer,

As much as we want to see the biblical aspect of the conflict (it is indeed "fantastic"). The conflict really started in 1922. It started in modern times due to political actions : balfour declaration, and post-wwII negotiations.
Muslims in Palestine do not fight because of Allah or any other angel, they fight because they were there and their home and land was taken from them. Simple.

What do you mean by " the Oslo accords also called for a renunciation of terror by the Palestinians. " ?

As for the palestinian fault, if there is it comes as a reaction from injustice.

[mrlee]

Thanks for your answer,

As much as we want to see the biblical aspect of the conflict (it is indeed "fantastic"). The conflict really started in 1922. It started in modern times due to political actions : balfour declaration, and post-wwII negotiations.
Muslims in Palestine do not fight because of Allah or any other angel, they fight because they were there and their home and land was taken from them. Simple.

What do you mean by " the Oslo accords also called for a renunciation of terror by the Palestinians. " ?

As for the palestinian fault, if there is it comes as a reaction from injustice.

they will use religion to justify it though.

[Axl4Prez2004]

This annapolis meeting, another false move from the international society to try and stop the madness there.
May i remind you that in a letter from George Bush to A. Sharon in 2004 said :
" as of the light of recent event, and the existence of numbers of israeli settlements (sic), it is unrealistic to think that the result of negotiations for peace will be a simple return to the 1949 peace treaty lines ".

Thus simply dismissing the very idea of biliteral discussion, the very idea of Oslo agreements signed by the world.

I'd remind you that the Oslo accords also called for a renunciation of terror by the Palestinians.  While Israel is certainly culpable in this conflict, they are not alone in that fact. 

And THIS is what young israeli are being told : (from the official israeli page of Hebron county http://www.hebron.com/english/article.php?id=351 ) -
" an open letter to condoliza rice on november 6th -
We wish to remind you, Dr. Rice, that in the Bible this land was promised to the Jewish people some 4,000 years ago. Abraham, the Jewish patriarch, purchased Hebron more than 3,800 years ago. The Jews left Egypt in order to go to their country, the Holy Land, the Land of Israel, 3,500 years ago. There they established a state 3,300 years ago. This state became the kingdom of the Jewish King David, 3,000 years ago. The Temple stood in the center of the country, Jerusalem, and after being destroyed by the Babylonians it was rebuilt some 2,000 years ago. In all of those generations, this land was the sole homeland of the Jewish people. Only the Jewish people gave it independence. Only they lent it a distinct identity.
Please bear in mind that by the time Arabs reached this country, it had belonged to the Jews for thousands of years. The Arabs destroyed the country and caused its inhabitants much suffering. They never established an independent state in this country and never contributed a thing to its development. Under Arab rule, most of the country was unpopulated and desolate, covered with marshes and deserts .

Yes, and Muslims claim Jerusalem because of the belief that the Archangel Gabriel gave Muhammed a flying horse to take him to the Temple Mount. 

Anyone (Jew, Muslim, Christian...whatever!) fighting based on claims made in allegorical books that are hundreds and thousands of years old needs a reality check. 

excellent points Freedom78...as usual.   

[freedom78]

excellent points Freedom78...as usual.   

Then why don't you agree with me when I preach the evils of Pats football? 

Thanks for your answer,

As much as we want to see the biblical aspect of the conflict (it is indeed "fantastic"). The conflict really started in 1922. It started in modern times due to political actions : balfour declaration, and post-wwII negotiations.
Muslims in Palestine do not fight because of Allah or any other angel, they fight because they were there and their home and land was taken from them. Simple.

What do you mean by " the Oslo accords also called for a renunciation of terror by the Palestinians. " ?

As for the palestinian fault, if there is it comes as a reaction from injustice.

I agree that the modern conflict started in the 20th century, but those who run the conflict, who prosper from it either in power or wealth or both, have done a fine job of using religion to the effect of inflaming the masses.  When Israel does something wrong (which is often) it isn't "These are bad people," but "The Zionists will not stop until they have run us from the Holy Land."  And the opposite is true as well.   

A political conflict over territory has been manipulated into one of religion.  And one must ask whether this conflict wouldn't be far easier to resolve if ethnicity weren't a factor.  It's difficult for a party to relinquish its claim on something that it believes was granted by God.  Otherwise, the Temple Mount is just a nice historical building, with a nice view...hardly worth warring over, and certainly not the obstacle to peace that it is, today. 

I for one don't blame the Palestinian people if they hate Israel.  Living under fear of violence must be a terrible thing (I can't claim to have experienced it), and certainly breeds a degree of contempt and desire for revenge.  And having to worry that someone on your bus might just blow himself up is the opposite side of that same coin, and one which normal Israelis have to deal with. 

Of course, the solution for peace is NOT the election of a group like Hamas.  But they will continue to wield significant influence (which has little to do with their military objectives) over the Palestinian people, so long as they are the primary source of basic services and education.  Peace hasn't happened, so the variables in the game need to be changed.  It's possible, but the idea that it will suddenly happen, and there will be peace, and no more violence is a pipe dream.   

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

I agree.
It's a shame so many years have passed and nothing have changed.
I was born with this conflict. And it's still going on. (but hey, we were born with hunger in africa and it's still going on .... )

I dunno what to think about the Annapolis meeting this week. The current american administration is dying. The world has never been so tensed.
I dunno what will come from that, but i'm pretty pessimistic.

[fuckin crazy]

Though, I don't neccesarily agree with it, Golda Meir once famously said "peace will come when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us". Peace would have been accomplished in the late 90's if Arafat hadn't been so obstinate over Jerusalem.

[The Dog]

I think had the Palestinians not resorted to suicide bombings and other terrorist-like tactics they would have garnered MUCH more sympathy, forcing the world, including the US, to make Israel compromise and give Palestinians their own state. 

[Jessica]

Nothing would have started if the british hadn't given land to Israel in the first place..

Funny how GB goes somewhere, act colon like or " we know better than you" and then...leave.

I find the whole thing horrendous and i think something should be done to stop Israel.

Jesus came from Iraq/syria/...region, NOT palestine.

It is not their land. Never was. If a land was more theirs, it would be Egypt.

It's scandalous.

So many families started over after the holocaust and they are doing to others what's been done to them !

SHAME ! bo'-sheth

[freedom78]

Nothing would have started if the british hadn't given land to Israel in the first place..

Funny how GB goes somewhere, act colon like or " we know better than you" and then...leave.

The legacy of colonialism in the Middle East, but even more so in Africa, is not a positive one. 

Though, I don't neccesarily agree with it, Golda Meir once famously said "peace will come when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us". Peace would have been accomplished in the late 90's if Arafat hadn't been so obstinate over Jerusalem.

I hadn't heard that quote.  But it's false, I think.  It places all blame on one side, which is silly.

I agree.
It's a shame so many years have passed and nothing have changed.
I was born with this conflict. And it's still going on. (but hey, we were born with hunger in africa and it's still going on .... )

I dunno what to think about the Annapolis meeting this week. The current american administration is dying. The world has never been so tensed.
I dunno what will come from that, but i'm pretty pessimistic.

I can't imagine anything will come of it.  Bush couldn't find his own ass to wipe it, and I hardly expect an administration that has contributed so little that is positive to somehow solve a situation as troublesome as this one has been.  Besides, they've negotiated again and again, and the issues of contention haven't changed.  If there were an easy and acceptable solution, it would have been found, by now.   
   

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

Though, I don't neccesarily agree with it, Golda Meir once famously said "peace will come when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us". Peace would have been accomplished in the late 90's if Arafat hadn't been so obstinate over Jerusalem.

I think that is a stupid quote. Very arrogant and patronizing. I cannot stand these point of views.
Putting aside the fact that it's a complete slap in the face of the mothers who lose their kids - and i can assure you, that these women do not want their kids to die, do not trust al-quaida propaganda, do not trust cnn fox news propaganda - , it is the perfect example of infusing irrational arguments in the debate and dismissing the people on both sides who fight for freedom.

But i dont want to start another debate on terrorism and "freedom fighting", the topic is on the "peace" process and the annapolis meeting.

2 negative notes :
- all the major leaders that will be present are denied by their own people
- the meeting shifted from "an international Un based meeting" to an "american led reunion".

Also keep in mind that Bush will meet with Olmert on the next day probably, and this is where and when the real decision will be made ....

[freedom78]

2 negative notes :
- all the major leaders that will be present are denied by their own people
- the meeting shifted from "an international Un based meeting" to an "american led reunion".

As much as I think it's important for the US to be engaged in the peace process, I've never understood why we always seem to be the mediator.  The Palestinians clearly believe we're biased toward Israel, and I think there's plenty of reason to believe that that is true.  In some cases, a biased mediator can be a good thing.  If we were able to use our influence with Israel to encourage concessions, then that's a positive step, but we've been over this ground again and again.  Whatever influence we have over Israel doesn't seem to be enough to reach that point where Palestinian leadership will find it acceptable.

The Palestinian position, here, has always been an interesting one.  Israel really has all the cards.  The land, the military, the security...it's essentially a matter of how much they'll give up.  I'm amazed at Palestinian resilience in the face of that, but when Barak was willing to give them 90% of what they wanted, back in the 90s, and they didn't take it, they really screwed themselves.