The Slash autobiography thread

[jarmo]

Jarmo ...

1) I didn't defend ... only stated fact.

Ah!

We just see it differently then, and conveniently you didn't answer any of the questions I raised when I was trying to explain the reason I disagree with you.

2) The diaries etc are things he went to when he wasn't sure of something.

I had no idea he wrote diaries.

Then the people behind this book have less one less excuse for the errors.

3) If you're talking about an October date in 91 and 92 being in dispute... you ever considered typo?

It's possible. It was just one example of an error.

Are the rest also just typos?





/jarmo

[ibelieveinaxl]

i think this thread is getting long in the tooth due to the fact that it has been real quiet and we dont have much to discuss/argue about. im just hoping something comes up soon so we can be discussing or hopefully DOING something else...happy thanksgiving to all....

[jarmo]

I just don't understand why people get upset when I point out the factual errors in the book (which I guess was the reason this thread was started).

Pretty much every movie has errors. and they're listed on IMDb.com. Does that upset you too?




/jarmo

[D]

Wouldn't it be crazy though, if one day Jarmo went totally DaveGnr2k on us and like had a huge meltdown and started blasting GNR.

[*Timothy*]

Wouldn't it be crazy though, if one day Jarmo went totally DaveGnr2k on us and like had a huge meltdown and started blasting GNR.

That might be the sign of Armageddon , sir.

[downzy56]

What do you think?

This place isn't here to support VR.

Then you'll have to excuse me.  I would have thought that a forum found under the "Wasn't Yesterday Great" branch would be a place to talk positively/negatively about former band members and their current projects.  I did not realize that the prime function of this forum was to tear down those that helped build Guns N' Roses.  My mistake.

People tend to place certain beliefs in people for the sole reason that their art speaks to them.  Unfortunately, and in most cases, people then have a hard time separating belief and art from man and artist. 

Many of us have a difficult time finding fault in the artist because we love their art to the highest degree.  What I found interesting in reading "Slash" was Slash's willingness to accept faults about himself as a person and as a member of Guns N' Roses and other projects.  Unfortunately, his faults bleed through in the process of writing this book.  He does not discuss his feelings about One in A Million; he omits his well-documented disdain for songs like Sweet Child, and isn't clear exactly as to what Axl's demands were in the contractual disputes (mind you, the last point can be excused if omissions were required by ongoing litigation).  Moreover, Slash does not clearly explain how his drug hazes and drunken stupors are so vividly recalled and detailed.  I was drunk plenty of times between ages of 19 - 23, but if you were to ask me to recall any of those moments with the same level of detail as Slash does, I'd be at a loss.

These are valid and constructive criticisms of Slash's book.  What is NOT a valid criticism is that it doesn't paint a true picture of Guns N' Roses.  The reason being, it's not a book about Guns N' Roses.  It's Slash's account.  To get the whole picture, you would need four others to give their accounts. 

If Axl were to write a book about his life, I would say the same thing to anyone who criticized such work for not being a complete account of Guns N' Roses. 

And as I've pointed out, I'm interested in getting the accurate story.

The stupid dates are part of GN'R history.

At the risk of being a broken record, "Slash" is not about Guns N' Roses.  It's his account of his life.  Dates are wrong, things are omitted, and detailed drunken hazes; all things that provoke discussion and debate.  But a few typos, omissions and biased points of view do not invalidate it as a book in and of itself.  The same way 'My World' doesn't make Use Your Illusion II an awful album. 

Jarmo, you ask why people get upset when you point out the factual errors in the book.  That's a fair question.  People shouldn't let their personal biases excuse obvious errors or dubious accounts. 

But doesn't it work the other way around?  If Axl were to lead fans to believe that the album would be released around March, 2006, and here we are 9 months later with no release in sight, are there not similar valid criticisms to make?

Cheers,

Andrew

[jarmo]

Then you'll have to excuse me.  I would have thought that a forum found under the "Wasn't Yesterday Great" branch would be a place to talk positively/negatively about former band members and their current projects.  I did not realize that the prime function of this forum was to tear down those that helped build Guns N' Roses.  My mistake.

Everything isn't that black and white in my world. Sorry to read that they are in yours.

I'm not gonna explain myself again.

Seems like every other week one of you is asking "why is this place here?".

And I answer, answer and answer but none of you pay attention.

These are valid and constructive criticisms of Slash's book.  What is NOT a valid criticism is that it doesn't paint a true picture of Guns N' Roses.  The reason being, it's not a book about Guns N' Roses.  It's Slash's account.  To get the whole picture, you would need four others to give their accounts. 

Well considering the guy wants to set things about that era straight, he makes it about GN'R.

True, it's not a GN'R biography but he talks about many things where others' opinion would possibly make the story completely different.

While we're on the subject, why does he feel like he has to explain what influenced Axl to write November Rain? That's just an example of him talking about things that he shouldn't have.

If Axl were to write a book about his life, I would say the same thing to anyone who criticized such work for not being a complete account of Guns N' Roses. 

The difference is that he was there from day one and still is.

He also keeps his story consistent.

So that automatically guarantees that it'd be a better account of GN'R.

At the risk of being a broken record, "Slash" is not about Guns N' Roses.  It's his account of his life.  Dates are wrong, things are omitted, and detailed drunken hazes; all things that provoke discussion and debate.  But a few typos, omissions and biased points of view do not invalidate it as a book in and of itself.  The same way 'My World' doesn't make Use Your Illusion II an awful album. 

No, the wrong dates, errors and knowing Slash's condition at the time just makes me personally wonder how accurate it is.

Add to that the fact that he quit GN'R. That decision might make him see GN'R in a different light. Like you keep telling yourself you made the right choice.



I know some of you don't care, you just want to read about sex, drugs and rock n' roll. Good for you.

I didn't read the book just to read about that. The reader in my case was someone who has read about Slash and GN'R for years. Someone who probably knows a lot of "useless GN'R trivia" and someone who doesn't think Slash is a perfect human being (that's not based on what band he is in, it's based on his actions).

So obviously we had different things in mind when reading the book.

A lot of things made no sense to me and a lot of you were just thinking "cool, sex, drugs, rock n' roll! Coolest book ever!".

But doesn't it work the other way around?  If Axl were to lead fans to believe that the album would be released around March, 2006, and here we are 9 months later with no release in sight, are there not similar valid criticisms to make?

I'm sure you love having that discussion with yourself every day. And also the "it's not GN'R!" one.

Iin my opinion when you try to make sure people UNDERSTAND that it's not set in stone, then it becomes pretty stupid to have this discussion ("this is not a promise, a lie or a guarantee,").



Now you're coming back to the old "why can't we say that about GN'R".

I thought it was pretty obvious.

Pointing fingers and whining about GN'R, is that positive and supportive in your opinion?


Once again, this site was never created to be a VR support site.

If you wanna whine about GN'R and put them down, logout and go to Google. I'm sure you'll find something "useful".





/jarmo

[SpiritDave]

Jarmo ...

1) I didn't defend ... only stated fact.

Ah!

We just see it differently then, and conveniently you didn't answer any of the questions I raised when I was trying to explain the reason I disagree with you.

2) The diaries etc are things he went to when he wasn't sure of something.

I had no idea he wrote diaries.

Then the people behind this book have less one less excuse for the errors.

3) If you're talking about an October date in 91 and 92 being in dispute... you ever considered typo?

It's possible. It was just one example of an error.

Are the rest also just typos?





/jarmo

Well ... the main reason I didn't answer ... I'll be honest.  I couldn't be bothered to read everything you said   You do waffle

Also the diaries thing ... well .. he mentions it in the book.  I'm guessing you didn't read the book properly.  Maybe you feel Slash waffles?

And regarding typos?  Well ... go and ask Slash or the editor.  I don't know why there's errors.  But I am telling you now.  I GUARANTEE that EVERY other Autobiography has errors in it.

[jarmo]

Well ... the main reason I didn't answer ... I'll be honest.  I couldn't be bothered to read everything you said   You do waffle

Hardly surprising.

Also the diaries thing ... well .. he mentions it in the book.  I'm guessing you didn't read the book properly.  Maybe you feel Slash waffles?

Well it's been a few weeks since I read it.

I don't care if other books have errors in them. We're only talking about the Slash one which he apparently used diaries for and yet fucks up many things.


So the next question to you is: Is it possible those diaries were fucked up to begin with or did he just edit certain things to fit his book (I don't mean physically fit, I mean fit the story and not contradict it)?




/jarmo

[SpiritDave]

EDIT: I'm done with bitching.  This post was uneccessary.  I hope I didn't offend anyone.  I retract it.

Not everyone loves Slash ... and not everyone loves Axl.  But this is the internet... what you expect?

Peace x

[Ali]

Jarmo.

You say Axl was there from the start and still is ... and that his story is always consistent....

So these are your reasons why you'd believe it was an accurate account?

Axl's fucking bi-polar, he's got more mental issues than you've probably had hot dinners ...

You think he'd ever admit to the fucking psychotic episodes he's had towards the HUGE numbers of people who've slagged him off because of it?? You think he would?? Not likely.? So far, I'd say Axl's book would be littered with inaccuracies, and maybe not lies, but certainly badly remembered events.

Sorry man ... it's true and you know it.

To downzy56 : I have been VERY VERY drunk in my 29 years on this earth PLENTY of times ... but I can remember much of it.? Not everyone gets knocked out to the degree that others do.? Slash was fucked in a lot of that time ... but why wouldn't he be able to remember certain incidents.? You know, there's probably other incidents he didn't put in because his memory didn't serve him well enough.

At the end of the day ... hands down, this is ... errors included... THE best GnR related book ever released.? Believe it or don't believe it, it was a fucking good read.? Jarmo ... you're disputing the facts ... but let's take a step back .... You surely can't say it's not a really really entertaining read!!!!

You MUST have enjoyed reading it.? Surely!

PS: In answer to your question... I genuinely don't believe that any of the inaccuracies were intentional.? People like you would rip Slash apart and he knows it.? Why would he purposly lie ?? If these things are lies, there'd be a lot ... a LOT ... of people, in the public eye, saying so.

Those are cheap shots about Axl and his mental health issues.

First and foremost, none of us have any clue as to how much time Axl has spent on and off lithium.  Second, since when does bi-polar disorder lead to memory loss?  Where have you heard that?

Third, since when does being bipolar create psychotic episodes?  Do you understand what psychosis is?

So far all your reasoning for believing Axl's book would be "littered" with inaccuracies is baseless.

Ali

[SpiritDave]

Jarmo.

You say Axl was there from the start and still is ... and that his story is always consistent....

So these are your reasons why you'd believe it was an accurate account?

Axl's fucking bi-polar, he's got more mental issues than you've probably had hot dinners ...

You think he'd ever admit to the fucking psychotic episodes he's had towards the HUGE numbers of people who've slagged him off because of it?  You think he would?  Not likely.  So far, I'd say Axl's book would be littered with inaccuracies, and maybe not lies, but certainly badly remembered events.

Sorry man ... it's true and you know it.

To downzy56 : I have been VERY VERY drunk in my 29 years on this earth PLENTY of times ... but I can remember much of it.  Not everyone gets knocked out to the degree that others do.  Slash was fucked in a lot of that time ... but why wouldn't he be able to remember certain incidents.  You know, there's probably other incidents he didn't put in because his memory didn't serve him well enough.

At the end of the day ... hands down, this is ... errors included... THE best GnR related book ever released.  Believe it or don't believe it, it was a fucking good read.  Jarmo ... you're disputing the facts ... but let's take a step back .... You surely can't say it's not a really really entertaining read!!!!

You MUST have enjoyed reading it.  Surely!

PS: In answer to your question... I genuinely don't believe that any of the inaccuracies were intentional.  People like you would rip Slash apart and he knows it.  Why would he purposly lie ?  If these things are lies, there'd be a lot ... a LOT ... of people, in the public eye, saying so.

Those are cheap shots about Axl and his mental health issues.

First and foremost, none of us have any clue as to how much time Axl has spent on and off lithium.  Second, since when does bi-polar disorder lead to memory loss?  Where have you heard that?

Third, since when does being bipolar create psychotic episodes?  Do you understand what psychosis is?

So far all your reasoning for believing Axl's book would be "littered" with inaccuracies is baseless.

Ali

And your basis for saying Slash is lying (you and the rest of the Axl freaks) is based on the fact that he didn't say certain things in his book, or that there's an obvious typo here and there.  If you can't stand me saying shit about your God, don't be so quick to throw the shit yourself.

[*Timothy*]

I think some people are taking this whole thing way to seriously.

[Ali]

Jarmo.

You say Axl was there from the start and still is ... and that his story is always consistent....

So these are your reasons why you'd believe it was an accurate account?

Axl's fucking bi-polar, he's got more mental issues than you've probably had hot dinners ...

You think he'd ever admit to the fucking psychotic episodes he's had towards the HUGE numbers of people who've slagged him off because of it?? You think he would?? Not likely.? So far, I'd say Axl's book would be littered with inaccuracies, and maybe not lies, but certainly badly remembered events.

Sorry man ... it's true and you know it.

To downzy56 : I have been VERY VERY drunk in my 29 years on this earth PLENTY of times ... but I can remember much of it.? Not everyone gets knocked out to the degree that others do.? Slash was fucked in a lot of that time ... but why wouldn't he be able to remember certain incidents.? You know, there's probably other incidents he didn't put in because his memory didn't serve him well enough.

At the end of the day ... hands down, this is ... errors included... THE best GnR related book ever released.? Believe it or don't believe it, it was a fucking good read.? Jarmo ... you're disputing the facts ... but let's take a step back .... You surely can't say it's not a really really entertaining read!!!!

You MUST have enjoyed reading it.? Surely!

PS: In answer to your question... I genuinely don't believe that any of the inaccuracies were intentional.? People like you would rip Slash apart and he knows it.? Why would he purposly lie ?? If these things are lies, there'd be a lot ... a LOT ... of people, in the public eye, saying so.

Those are cheap shots about Axl and his mental health issues.

First and foremost, none of us have any clue as to how much time Axl has spent on and off lithium.? Second, since when does bi-polar disorder lead to memory loss?? Where have you heard that?

Third, since when does being bipolar create psychotic episodes?? Do you understand what psychosis is?

So far all your reasoning for believing Axl's book would be "littered" with inaccuracies is baseless.

Ali

And your basis for saying Slash is lying (you and the rest of the Axl freaks) is based on the fact that he didn't say certain things in his book, or that there's an obvious typo here and there.? If you can't stand me saying shit about your God, don't be so quick to throw the shit yourself.

What the hell are you talking about? ?When did I say Slash was lying because of a typo? ?Never.

You are entitled to say whatever you want, but if it's based on inaccurate perceptions and presumptions about Axl's mental health, which none of us would know anything about, I'll call you on it.

If you can't stand that, then don't be so quick to throw out baseless and presumptious arguments out there.

Ali

[JimBobTTD]

Ali - Axl is mentally unstable. I wouldn't take any book he wrote as being reliable.

[Ali]

Ali - Axl is mentally unstable. I wouldn't take any book he wrote as being reliable.

And you know this because?

Having bipolar disorder?  Again, that is an emotional/mood disorder, not a mental one.  It does not affect memory and because it is a mood disorder, not a mental one, there is logical basis to think that it affects truthfulness.

If that isn't enough for you, bear in mind Slash's self-proclaimed best friend said that you always get the truth from Axl.

Ali

[*Timothy*]

Why the hell are we talking about Axl 's metal health and book? That as far as I know will never be written .

[downzy56]

Once again, this site was never created to be a VR support site.

If you wanna whine about GN'R and put them down, logout and go to Google. I'm sure you'll find something "useful".

/jarmo

Constructive criticism and being objective are different than arbitrary whining and slander.  Might I suggest you google the word "objective." 

Moreover, whenever you resort to attacking the person rather than the point you've already lost your point. 

There's a difference between pointing out faulty arguments or inaccurate dates in Slash's book and being overtly critical to the point where the entire thread is hijacked into proof that "Slash sucks."  Most of what interested me in the book had little or nothing to do with Guns N' Roses.  His stories of growing up in LA, having David Bowie as father figure, being a kleptomaniac, all of which i found more captivating than the numerous drug episodes or spats with Axl.  But I suppose because his wedding date is wrong that the whole book should be cast aside.

This thread was suppose to be about factual inaccuracies.  That's all fine and good.  But you invite an enormous amount of scorn and reticule when you insinuate capriciously malicious remarks that go above and beyond what's called for in this thread. 

Furthermore, logic doesn't dictate that Axl's biography would be better concerning Guns N' Roses than Slash's account.  Just because he was there a bit before Slash doesn't automatically give Axl the final word.  It would simply be his account; his view of how things went down.  I'm sure my younger brother has a different account of our parents, but is mine more correct because I'm a few years older?  We both are different people, having different upbringings. and hence will have different versions of how things came to be.   

Answer me this: you don't think Slash is a perfect human being, but is Axl?  Of course not.  So why such disdain for one and love for the other.  Both were instrumental in getting GNR to become the greatest rock bands in the last 25 years.  It was Slash who wrote the opening riff for Jungle and it was Axl that remembered how great it was and brought back the idea and help making it into a monster of a song.  Both deserve credit.

You ask: Pointing fingers and whining about GN'R, is that positive and supportive in your opinion?  Can ask you something?  What has been worth being positve or supportive about?  Since the tour ended in July, and little to no updates, why should fans be supportive.  We were after all promised new music in 2006.  Oh that's right, never happened.  And there was a tentative release date for March of this year?  Another miss (I know, I know, tentative, not a promise, guarantee, but when you miss your mark by several seasons and what will likely be a year, how sincere was the release date in the first place).  You can accuse me or anyone else of whining, but it's not like we're speaking falsehoods.  Are these not facts? 

Finally, I will always adore Axl as an artist, the thousands of dollars I've spent and numerous concerts will attest to that.  I didn't drive from Toronto to NYC in May of 2006 'cause I wanted to boo or was looking for reasons to complain about the show.  He will always be my favourite artist and the man who hooked me into the GNR world.  Moreover, his influence in my own music is an asset I will never be able to repay.  But like I said in my last post, some people can separate the man from the artist.  I suggest you give it a shot.   As a person, he's a little hard to defend at times (though I give you credit for hanging tough). 

You can still be a fan and find fault in your idols.

Cheers,

Andrew

[SpiritDave]

Once again, this site was never created to be a VR support site.

If you wanna whine about GN'R and put them down, logout and go to Google. I'm sure you'll find something "useful".

/jarmo

Constructive criticism and being objective are different than arbitrary whining and slander.  Might I suggest you google the word "objective." 

Moreover, whenever you resort to attacking the person rather than the point you've already lost your point. 

There's a difference between pointing out faulty arguments or inaccurate dates in Slash's book and being overtly critical to the point where the entire thread is hijacked into proof that "Slash sucks."  Most of what interested me in the book had little or nothing to do with Guns N' Roses.  His stories of growing up in LA, having David Bowie as father figure, being a kleptomaniac, all of which i found more captivating than the numerous drug episodes or spats with Axl.  But I suppose because his wedding date is wrong that the whole book should be cast aside.

This thread was suppose to be about factual inaccuracies.  That's all fine and good.  But you invite an enormous amount of scorn and reticule when you insinuate capriciously malicious remarks that go above and beyond what's called for in this thread. 

Furthermore, logic doesn't dictate that Axl's biography would be better concerning Guns N' Roses than Slash's account.  Just because he was there a bit before Slash doesn't automatically give Axl the final word.  It would simply be his account; his view of how things went down.  I'm sure my younger brother has a different account of our parents, but is mine more correct because I'm a few years older?  We both are different people, having different upbringings. and hence will have different versions of how things came to be.   

Answer me this: you don't think Slash is a perfect human being, but is Axl?  Of course not.  So why such disdain for one and love for the other.  Both were instrumental in getting GNR to become the greatest rock bands in the last 25 years.  It was Slash who wrote the opening riff for Jungle and it was Axl that remembered how great it was and brought back the idea and help making it into a monster of a song.  Both deserve credit.

You ask: Pointing fingers and whining about GN'R, is that positive and supportive in your opinion?  Can ask you something?  What has been worth being positve or supportive about?  Since the tour ended in July, and little to no updates, why should fans be supportive.  We were after all promised new music in 2006.  Oh that's right, never happened.  And there was a tentative release date for March of this year?  Another miss (I know, I know, tentative, not a promise, guarantee, but when you miss your mark by several seasons and what will likely be a year, how sincere was the release date in the first place).  You can accuse me or anyone else of whining, but it's not like we're speaking falsehoods.  Are these not facts? 

Finally, I will always adore Axl as an artist, the thousands of dollars I've spent and numerous concerts will attest to that.  I didn't drive from Toronto to NYC in May of 2006 'cause I wanted to boo or was looking for reasons to complain about the show.  He will always be my favourite artist and the man who hooked me into the GNR world.  Moreover, his influence in my own music is an asset I will never be able to repay.  But like I said in my last post, some people can separate the man from the artist.  I suggest you give it a shot.   As a person, he's a little hard to defend at times (though I give you credit for hanging tough). 

You can still be a fan and find fault in your idols.

Cheers,

Andrew

Dude ....

YOU are the single most important member of this forum.  You're using intelligent arguments, and you're using them for AND against both Axl and Slash.  I think your arguments are completely impossible to argue against.  You're what every one of us should be.  lol.

Unfortunately that includes the admin.  Anyways ... I like Axl and Slash as artists ... I don't know Slash as a person ... neither does anyone here.  But we all fight amongst ourselves to no real end.  It's a shame.

I'm gonna stop.  Your post has made me simply realise that by being biased or arguing about musicians we know fuck all about in reality, just proves that we should actually just be living our own lives. 

Jarmo... I might think you're a dick ... but you think I am one too ... and for that ... I think we can agree to disagree and get on with our lives

No hard feelings

Edit: Also ... anything I said about Axl's mental state ... I take back.  I'm not going to be that kind of asshole. x

[Jim Bob]

Furthermore, logic doesn't dictate that Axl's biography would be better concerning Guns N' Roses than Slash's account.  Just because he was there a bit before Slash doesn't automatically give Axl the final word.  It would simply be his account; his view of how things went down. 

Yes Axl was there for a while before Slash, but he's also been there 12 years longer since Slash left.  The GnR story hasn't stopped just because Slash left.  Therefore its common sense that Axl's biography would be a better look at the GnR story as hes really the only guy who has been with GnR from day number one.

You ask: Pointing fingers and whining about GN'R, is that positive and supportive in your opinion?  Can ask you something?  What has been worth being positve or supportive about?  Since the tour ended in July, and little to no updates, why should fans be supportive. 

I wouldn't be a fan of something I do not support.  doesn't make sense to me.

We were after all promised new music in 2006.  Oh that's right, never happened.  And there was a tentative release date for March of this year?  Another miss (I know, I know, tentative, not a promise, guarantee, but when you miss your mark by several seasons and what will likely be a year, how sincere was the release date in the first place).  You can accuse me or anyone else of whining, but it's not like we're speaking falsehoods.  Are these not facts? 

What you are saying is true.  but a couple points to keep in mind.

A. The record is done and its in the hands of the record company.  This has been confirmed by numerous sources (mysteron, baz, that glenn dude).  I think the intention has been to get the album out but without the record company doing their job, who knows?  At this point you can't blame Axl.

B. You did get new music this year.  Sure it may not have been in the form you were wanting, but I believe Axl contributing to Baz's album was not only a way to lend some help to his friend and do what he does best, but also a way to get his voice out there to his fans because there is an obvious hold-up with the new album(s). (JMO)