Matt Sorum - the weak link in VR?

[Smoking Guns]

Remember who limited Sorum on UYI!? It was Axl that often critiqued his playing and "held him back" out side of the obvious like Locomotive which is fucking awesome!!

How did you find this out?

According to Matt himself at the time, Axl only asked him to drum a certain way on one song. November Rain.

You also forget that most of those songs were written with Steven in the band......





/jarmo

But I think maybe you are right because I don't remember another song being mentioned.?

So one song out of thirty caused you to say Axl "held him back" on the UYI albums?



/jarmo

Okay it was some Axl, and it was some of playing someone else's material.? Either way, he wasn't able to be as original as much as he would have liked. I think that is a fair statement.?

Amazing how you manage to put all the blame on Axl at first, then you change it to "some Axl".

 

I agree.? Scott acoustic plush is a great voice.

His voice on "Sour Girl" is amazing as well.

Both singers have their strengths, Axl rips the high screech like nobody's business while Scott's lower register is smooth and rich.

It's all subjective anyway..

Some of you need to get headphones and listen closely to some GN'R....

Axl''s more than a high voice. That's what makes him stand above many of the other singers who have come around during the last 20 years.



But isn't this about how great Matt Sorum is?





/jarmo

Jarmo, I just don't want to beat a dead horse. I compromised and felt I did some give and take and I agree some with you.  But you have to keep bringing it up?  I am pretty damn objective.  I am not even arguing.  I see both sides.  But UYI was not a true reflection on Matt's ability to play and we may never know what Axl said to Matt on his songs like Estranged, NR, Breakdown etc.  We do know for a fact that he was controlling on at least one track for sure.  Its possible maybe others.  We mainly know about that one cause it was a monster hit.  I think maybe the youcould be mine intro was Matt's idea.  Who knows.  I remember him talking about that fill.  But I also remember something saying Adler came up with that.  It was an old song, so I don't know what matt could have changed other than the big intro.

[jarmo]

You're just making a big deal out of the fact that Axl asked him to play a certain way on one song.


The You Could Be Mine intro was Duff's idea by the way.



/jarmo

[Falcon]

Some of you need to get headphones and listen closely to some GN'R....

Axl''s more than a high voice. That's what makes him stand above many of the other singers who have come around during the last 20 years.

Sure he is... but (for me) his high end is his strength and the characteristic that makes him distinctive. ?

But isn't this about how great Matt Sorum is?

It's started out alleging Matt as the "weak link" ( ) in VR then disentigrated into the usual tit for tat silliness.

[Smoking Guns]

You're just making a big deal out of the fact that Axl asked him to play a certain way on one song.


The You Could Be Mine intro was Duff's idea by the way.



/jarmo

That is fair. 

Duff wrote the drum fill?  Its a direct rip off from Sorum's favorite drummer John Bohnam and was used in the song Moby Dick.  You sure the drumming is Duff's influence?  If so, props to Duff!!!!

[jarmo]

You're just making a big deal out of the fact that Axl asked him to play a certain way on one song.


The You Could Be Mine intro was Duff's idea by the way.



/jarmo

That is fair. 

Duff wrote the drum fill?  Its a direct rip off from Sorum's favorite drummer John Bohnam and was used in the song Moby Dick.  You sure the drumming is Duff's influence?  If so, props to Duff!!!!

That's what Matt himself said in an interview on MTV Europe in 1993.....



/jarmo

[Smoking Guns]

You're just making a big deal out of the fact that Axl asked him to play a certain way on one song.


The You Could Be Mine intro was Duff's idea by the way.



/jarmo

That is fair.?

Duff wrote the drum fill?? Its a direct rip off from Sorum's favorite drummer John Bohnam and was used in the song Moby Dick.? You sure the drumming is Duff's influence?? If so, props to Duff!!!!

That's what Matt himself said in an interview on MTV Europe in 1993.....



/jarmo

Wow!!!  That is awesome!  Duff is a badass.

[Smoking Guns]

Jarmo, what did the 1987 version of You Could Be Mine sound like compared to the UYI version?  Just curious.

[Ines_rocks!]

lol are you serious?

Eh, yes?

Have you even listened to the structure of the guitars on 'Contraband' and 'Libertad'?

It's not just Slash, you know - he's probably way more involved than you could ever imagine.

lol thanks for the enlightment 

[jarmo]

Jarmo, what did the 1987 version of You Could Be Mine sound like compared to the UYI version?  Just curious.

I don't think I have heard a 1987 version...


/jarmo

[mallrat]

While I respected the fact that Matt is a good technical drummer. But in every band he has been involved with... The Cult, Guns and VR he always seemed like the weak link to me.

[Trist805]

When I said Scott has a better voice, it was an opinion ?but I think Scott is, overall, more melodic. ? Yes Axl can hit the high notes, but Scott definatly has his own style too. ? I just think it hasn't been used as effectively in VR as in STP. ?I'm not talking about the GNR covers they do, I'm talking about VR songs. ?It seems that his vocals seem to get burried, among everyone else in the band. ? My favorite stuff is like the chorus in Sucker Train Blues, cuz that is essential Weiland. ? Sometimes it seems as if he trys to conform to their style and vice versa instead of meshing as a group. ?I think songwriting wise Scott can't touch Axl cuz the songs on Libertad are nowhere near as complex as UYI. ? ?I just feel like Scott's voice isn't showcased enough in VR the way it was in STP. ? It probably has to do with there being 4 members in the band instead of 3.

[Smoking Guns]

Jarmo, what did the 1987 version of You Could Be Mine sound like compared to the UYI version?? Just curious.

I don't think I have heard a 1987 version...


/jarmo

That has to be the one song that maybe nobody has ever heard in its original Appetite form except the members and mike clink and the managers.  I would love to hear that!

[ibelieveinaxl]

Jarmo, what did the 1987 version of You Could Be Mine sound like compared to the UYI version?? Just curious.

I don't think I have heard a 1987 version...


/jarmo

That has to be the one song that maybe nobody has ever heard in its original Appetite form except the members and mike clink and the managers.? I would love to hear that!

yes, me too. but, the song was not finished when they recorded appetite. so, im curious if there are any rough demos of an unfinished product. i havent heard it and i pretty much have everything out there and i dont think this has surfaced. but if someone has it, please let me know..

[Smoking Guns]

Jarmo, what did the 1987 version of You Could Be Mine sound like compared to the UYI version?? Just curious.

I don't think I have heard a 1987 version...


/jarmo

That has to be the one song that maybe nobody has ever heard in its original Appetite form except the members and mike clink and the managers.? I would love to hear that!

yes, me too. but, the song was not finished when they recorded appetite. so, im curious if there are any rough demos of an unfinished product. i havent heard it and i pretty much have everything out there and i dont think this has surfaced. but if someone has it, please let me know..

Jarmo, see what you can do with your connections.  Thanks

SG

[the dirt]

VR melodically, musically speaking, seems to lend itself towards Scott's STP style more-so than GNR.

Maybe Scott had more chemestry with the other STP guys and Slash and Duff had more chemistry with Axl. As for Sorum, I guess you can make a case for one of the six (at least) drummers that have played for the band.

[CSS]

lol thanks for the enlightment

You're welcome.

I still haven't gotten the explanation on why Dave Kushner would be the "weak" link, though...

[Ines_rocks!]

lol thanks for the enlightment

You're welcome.

I still haven't gotten the explanation on why Dave Kushner would be the "weak" link, though...

Oh... sure. Here it is:
-he?s a completely unknown in a band of rock superstars
-he has no carisma whatsoever (we can see that on the few interviews he gives)
-his playing is almost the same in every song, the chords picked dont varie much from song to song...

Overall... he seems just like a nice guy but standing next to the others in the band it seems he just doesnt fit. They should have picked a more famous and more technically skilled rhytm guitar player.

From this, I ain?t saying I don?t like the guy or the band as it is right now... but again, if there?s even a weak link in VR Dave will be it.... not Matt Sorum... for sure.?

[Smoking Guns]

lol thanks for the enlightment

You're welcome.

I still haven't gotten the explanation on why Dave Kushner would be the "weak" link, though...

Oh... sure. Here it is:
-he?s a completely unknown in a band of rock superstars
-he has no carisma whatsoever (we can see that on the few interviews he gives)
-his playing is almost the same in every song, the chords picked dont varie much from song to song...

Overall... he seems just like a nice guy but standing next to the others in the band it seems he just doesnt fit. They should have picked a more famous and more technically skilled rhytm guitar player.

From this, I ain?t saying I don?t like the guy or the band as it is right now... but again, if there?s even a weak link in VR Dave will be it.... not Matt Sorum... for sure.?

Its rythym guitar......   Rythym doesn't require as much skill as more feel.  If he had too much skill he would be playing lead.  Ha!  And I think he is really more of a lead player playing rythym.  Maybe they need a true rythym player more like keith richards.

[Ines_rocks!]

lol thanks for the enlightment

You're welcome.

I still haven't gotten the explanation on why Dave Kushner would be the "weak" link, though...

Oh... sure. Here it is:
-he?s a completely unknown in a band of rock superstars
-he has no carisma whatsoever (we can see that on the few interviews he gives)
-his playing is almost the same in every song, the chords picked dont varie much from song to song...

Overall... he seems just like a nice guy but standing next to the others in the band it seems he just doesnt fit. They should have picked a more famous and more technically skilled rhytm guitar player.

From this, I ain?t saying I don?t like the guy or the band as it is right now... but again, if there?s even a weak link in VR Dave will be it.... not Matt Sorum... for sure.?

Maybe they need a true rythym player more like keith richards.

Yeah... that?s what I was trying to say. 

[Trist805]

lol thanks for the enlightment

You're welcome.

I still haven't gotten the explanation on why Dave Kushner would be the "weak" link, though...

Oh... sure. Here it is:
-he?s a completely unknown in a band of rock superstars
-he has no carisma whatsoever (we can see that on the few interviews he gives)
-his playing is almost the same in every song, the chords picked dont varie much from song to song...

Overall... he seems just like a nice guy but standing next to the others in the band it seems he just doesnt fit. They should have picked a more famous and more technically skilled rhytm guitar player.

From this, I ain?t saying I don?t like the guy or the band as it is right now... but again, if there?s even a weak link in VR Dave will be it.... not Matt Sorum... for sure.?

I disagree with all your points.  1) the band chose him so he is obviously capable.  Just because he isn't a star doesn't mean he isn't good for the band.  I think he keeps them grounded.  2) Dave seems to have a lot of charisma from the interviews I've heard, he's always cracking jokes.  Plus on stage he is probably the wildest  3)  He is a rhythm guitar player.  His job is to stay in the backround.  Izzy was basically the same way.  He probably got the least attention.  I see similarities between Izzy and Dave.  Dave also writes songs especially "Get Out The Door"  which is probably one of the strongest songs on Libertad.