Matt Sorum - the weak link in VR?

[JimBobTTD]

I like what Baz said about Brain before the Hammerstein shows.? ?

Do you ever think the Illusions might have been better albums if Brain or Frank was in the band instead??

The Illusions albums would have been better if they had only put the best songs on there. Admit it - it is NOT "all killer, no filler" like AFD is ("Think About You" excluded). I don't think Matt Sorum's drumming had any detrimental effect on those LPs at all. Although his drum solos on the UYI tours were pretty much exactly the same.

If anything, the addition of Dizzy Reed moved GNR away from balls-to-the-wall rock ethic. I think the UYI albums would have been better if they had stuck to their rock roots.

[Jim Bob]

I like what Baz said about Brain before the Hammerstein shows.   

Do you ever think the Illusions might have been better albums if Brain or Frank was in the band instead? 

The Illusions albums would have been better if they had only put the best songs on there. Admit it - it is NOT "all killer, no filler" like AFD is ("Think About You" excluded). I don't think Matt Sorum's drumming had any detrimental effect on those LPs at all. Although his drum solos on the UYI tours were pretty much exactly the same.

If anything, the addition of Dizzy Reed moved GNR away from balls-to-the-wall rock ethic. I think the UYI albums would have been better if they had stuck to their rock roots.

ummmm, keyboards were needed for a lot of the songs.   Dizzy brought a new dimension to the songs and it was a good thing for the band..   

but I do agree.. those drum solos on the UYI tour were horrid.     And I do think a drummer that had some rhythm would have made those albums pretty close to perfect.

[JimBobTTD]

My point was that the album didn't really need the keyboard songs! Yes, it brought a new dimension, but not one which I think should have been avoided.

I disagree about Matt, though. I think he does have rhythm, and that he is a very talented musician. However, his drum solos did lack imagination and this could make him seem less "good". Overall, I think that GNR's sound changed in the UYI albums. That is more a combination of Matt's drumming style, keyboards and the simple fact that the songs weren't all that special, certain tracks excluded of course.

[Jim Bob]

i think it's a bit lame to find a scapegoat to explain the poor quality of the band.

slash is not inspired in VR, duff is invisible, nobody cares about the rythm guitar player, and the
singer is just OK at his best, the songs are not good except 2 or 3, the last LP is average, the
first one is boring as hell.

that's why they don't have any success, not because of one member.

no doubt everyone in that band is playing below their potential.   but i see matt as the weakest link.

[DeN]

and another one will see slash as the weakest link, another one will see scott, etc...
it's a clear proof noone in particular is to blame, but everyone is.

and even an albatros can sometimes fly with grace 

[leatherebel]

The Illusions albums are just fine...give it a rest..

[Falcon]

I don't think matt has that much of a groove.

thats my biggest complaint.

Take a listen/look at his work with The Cult both live and on Beyond Good And Evil, plenty of groove there....

"The Witch" ?live at Reading '01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT2Y6h_ZlHU

"Rise" video from BG&E in '01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8dN-5N1yzk

It's all about the material, Matt just never seemed to fit in UYI era GNR or for the material from those records in general. ?

His talents are much better suited for the 5 piece hard rock outfit, letting him "breath" so to speak without having to restrain himself behind layers of keys an synth.

Bottom line...

Hardly the right fit for GNR of that era, couldn't imagine anyone else in VR.

[Smoking Guns]

I don't think matt has that much of a groove.

thats my biggest complaint.

Take a listen/look at his work with The Cult both live and on Beyond Good And Evil, plenty of groove there....

"The Witch" ?live at Reading '01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT2Y6h_ZlHU

"Rise" video from BG&E in '01
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8dN-5N1yzk

It's all about the material, Matt just never seemed to fit in UYI era GNR or for the material from those records in general. ?

His talents are much better suited for the 5 piece hard rock outfit, letting him "breath" so to speak without having to restrain himself behind layers of keys an synth.

Bottom line...

Hardly the right fit for GNR of that era, couldn't imagine anyone else in VR.

Great points Falcon!!!

Remember who limited Sorum on UYI!  It was Axl that often critiqued his playing and "held him back" out side of the obvious like Locomotive which is fucking awesome!!

[Red1]

I really like Matts drumming in VR - especially on Contraband which really suited the hard hitting style in a live situation.  I also think his backing vocals are spot on.

[jarmo]

Remember who limited Sorum on UYI!  It was Axl that often critiqued his playing and "held him back" out side of the obvious like Locomotive which is fucking awesome!!

How did you find this out?

According to Matt himself at the time, Axl only asked him to drum a certain way on one song. November Rain.

You also forget that most of those songs were written with Steven in the band......





/jarmo

[Guitar1281]

I think matt stepped it up on Libertad personally and the first Snakepit album his work was pretty damn good, and this is coming from a man who will poke fun at Borum most chances he can get.
I think the problem with VR is they don't seem to push themselves enough, we all know what Slash is capable of and Scotts lyrics and melodies in STP were damn good.

[Smoking Guns]

Remember who limited Sorum on UYI!? It was Axl that often critiqued his playing and "held him back" out side of the obvious like Locomotive which is fucking awesome!!

How did you find this out?

According to Matt himself at the time, Axl only asked him to drum a certain way on one song. November Rain.

You also forget that most of those songs were written with Steven in the band......





/jarmo

November Rain is the main song where Sorum Sux!  But I think maybe you are right because I don't remember another song being mentioned.  And you are correct a lot of the songs were adlers.  I think even Civil War (which is the only song with adler on it) doesn't really have that loose feel adler usually has.  So maybe the production also affected Sorum's playing since even Adler sounded somewhat bland.

[Butch Français]

I like what Baz said about Brain before the Hammerstein shows.

Do you ever think the Illusions might have been better albums if Brain or Frank was in the band instead?

well, pretty much everything would sound better with Brain on it.
but when that's said, I think the UYI's would have sounded about the same no matter what drummer except from Adler would have played on them.
Adler was the original and had his own groove and way to do things. but when Matt came into the band, it was already kinda decided by the band how the drums should sound on the new songs (largely based on Adlers playing on the demos, but when played without Adlers groove, doesn't sound anywhere near as great as it would with him).

Edit: forgot, Matt has really impressed me on the VR albums. he's als great on the Neurotic Outsiders album.

[Bridge]

So you guys are saying he sucked in GNR but rocks in VR?

I definitely think Sorum sucked in GNR.? I think he's better in VR because he's playing songs that he helped conceive, so they inherently fit his style better.? But I still think that overall, VR would be much better suited with a more rhythmic drummer instead of a heavy hitter.? I've always said they should've hired Steven Adler instead.

I dont know.. I just cant' get into his style.?

Well Jim Bob, hell may have frozen over, but you and I finally find some common ground.? I've never cared for Sorum's "smash em up" style of drumming either.

Do you ever think the Illusions might have been better albums if Brain or Frank was in the band instead??

No, I think the UYI songs would've been better with their original drummer, Steven, who was (like several people pointed out) the guy who helped them hammer out those songs in writing and rehearsal sessions.? The original guy is always going to be better, because it's always hard for a new guy to come into songs that have already been written and try to force himself to adapt to them.

[Eclipsed107]

Thank you, I've been saying this for years.

Matt is one of the most overrated drummers I've ever heard.  So many people praise him for how great he is, but he's an average drummer at best.

Not only that but the guy is a real dick head.  Remember that "making of VR" show on VH1 how much of a dick he was being when they were trying to find a singer?

I've also heard numerous tales of him being rude to fans, like he has this real big "rock star" fuck you attitude.

I don't know if VR would be better without Matt because the drumming isn't a huge part of their songs, but if they found a better drummer maybe it would be.

[jarmo]

Remember who limited Sorum on UYI!  It was Axl that often critiqued his playing and "held him back" out side of the obvious like Locomotive which is fucking awesome!!

How did you find this out?

According to Matt himself at the time, Axl only asked him to drum a certain way on one song. November Rain.

You also forget that most of those songs were written with Steven in the band......





/jarmo

But I think maybe you are right because I don't remember another song being mentioned. 

So one song out of thirty caused you to say Axl "held him back" on the UYI albums?



/jarmo

[Grouse]

Before libertad I would've actually agreed with you, but his work on libertad is way better than almost anything I've heard him do before...

[Falcon]

Matt is one of the most overrated drummers I've ever heard.? So many people praise him for how great he is, but he's an average drummer at best.

That's why his resume' sucks..

Not only that but the guy is a real dick head...

I've also heard numerous tales of him being rude to fans, like he has this real big "rock star" fuck you attitude. .

I've met him on numerous occassions and he's always been cool, very accommodating and fan friendly.

[LunsJail]

First off, I think Matt is a very technically skilled drummer. ?However, this doesn't always make for great listening.

A lot of drummers try to "get out of the way of the song" on record and don't do all they're capable of (fills, etc.). ?Their goal is to support the song and not overtake it. ?Unfortunately, there's not much in the way of great songs in VR for Matt's drumming to support.

I think the UYI drumming is great. ?Remember, the songs were written before he got there and he had a lot to learn and record in a very short amount of time. ?Plus, they're mostly written in straightforward time signatures and don't give him much to show off.

[coolman78SLASH]

I think his drumming on UYI was pretty good, it fitted the songs, and the band (Axl included) praised his ability to step up both live and on those 50 or so songs he recorded, with many of them being favourites for the avarage GnR fan, like Dont Cry, November Rain, Estranged, KOHD, and so on..  I have an impression from interviews, and stories that he isent the most sympathetic guy (I dont know him) but I dont let that get in the way of my opinion on his drumming. He got headhunted from The Cult to GnR when GnR was the biggest band on earth, and he recorded two albums with a grammy award winning band, and sold millions of records, so he's done something right!