Is God real / fake?

[GeorgeSteele]

I think Gods and religion add some value to society.

If someone close passes away, it is good to think that they have gone to a better place.

I am not a religious person though.

I think that's clearly a powerful motivation to have faith in a higher being - the need to feel that we have immortal souls. ?In fact, when I die, it's not even necessary that I go to a "better place", I'll go any place (except New Jersey). ?The permanence of death is tremendously difficult to accept.
 ?

[Mysteron]

This could be an interesting thread, although I hope it doesn't degenerate into flame wars as I have seen these kinds of threads do on other boards.

So what do yo reckon?

Myself well I don't think so. I'm just one of those minded people who need some sort of verification before I believe the words in an old book of "events" written by a bunch of people who were going by what they heard, not what they saw for themselves.

I have a close mate who is very religious, he is studying to be a christian pastor. I laugh every time he tells me how all the stories in the old testament are fact, like Noah getting 2 of every species in the world on that ark? , or Jonah living in the belly of that whale.

So what do y'all reckon?

I think Gods and religion add some value to society.

If someone close passes away, it is good to think that they have gone to a better place.

I am not a religious person though.

Sure they (religions) add comfort in some situations.? ?But they teach you intolerance at the same time.? Worthwhile trade-off?? ?No chance.? The damage that is continually done to humanity in the name or religion is sickening.

Religions preach many things. I never said they were perfect.

Believing in things is our protection from death and the consequences of death. It makes it all easier. Unfortunately, there have been consequences historically, and it will probably be our downfall in years to come if a meteor doesn't hit us first.

However, people cannot stop doing what comes to them naturally.

The problem with mankind is that they can never take a step back and understand how everything works.

[Howard2k]

This could be an interesting thread, although I hope it doesn't degenerate into flame wars as I have seen these kinds of threads do on other boards.

So what do yo reckon?

Myself well I don't think so. I'm just one of those minded people who need some sort of verification before I believe the words in an old book of "events" written by a bunch of people who were going by what they heard, not what they saw for themselves.

I have a close mate who is very religious, he is studying to be a christian pastor. I laugh every time he tells me how all the stories in the old testament are fact, like Noah getting 2 of every species in the world on that ark? , or Jonah living in the belly of that whale.

So what do y'all reckon?

I think Gods and religion add some value to society.

If someone close passes away, it is good to think that they have gone to a better place.

I am not a religious person though.

Sure they (religions) add comfort in some situations.? ?But they teach you intolerance at the same time.? Worthwhile trade-off?? ?No chance.? The damage that is continually done to humanity in the name or religion is sickening.

Religions preach many things. I never said they were perfect.

Believing in things is our protection from death and the consequences of death. It makes it all easier. Unfortunately, there have been consequences historically, and it will probably be our downfall in years to come if a meteor doesn't hit us first.

However, people cannot stop doing what comes to them naturally.

The problem with mankind is that they can never take a step back and understand how everything works.

I hate to be pedantic, but it's not protection at all, it's a perceived protection.  Our desire to believe in God (or not) has no bearing on his actual existence. 

And the damage done by religion is easy to sweep under the carpet as historical, but it's still going on, every day, all around the world.   Sure the crusades are done.  There's no Spanish Inquisition this year, but each individual sect of religion is still teaching that it is the only righteous path, the exclusive path to heaven, and that you should bring your friends or they'll go to hell.

Regrettably, there are people out there that NEED religion and I think we'll always have it. 
 

[SLCPUNK]

The reason people are so doubtful these days is because of all the new information we have learned about how we evolved and how our brain works. Also, people now go around debunking myths of all types. Most have logical, rational explanations.

I've always found that evolution led by a higher power to be what I leaned towards. Why should it always be so black and white?

I find the limitations created by "faith" to attack the true nature of man: freedom. That, among other things, is why I frown on most organized religions. I find Christianity to be just as brutal, primitive, and narrow minded as Islam.

While I can not completely adhere to all Buddhist philosophies I have tremendous respect for their outlook on life, impermanence, mindfulness, and intent. This ideology provides the means to enjoy and appreciate my life to the fullest extent. That paired with a belief in a higher power makes my life easy to appreciate. Many things I can not control, I won't question why, I'll just let it be, and as long as I led my life with true intentions, then I am content.

[TAP]

The reason people are so doubtful these days is because of all the new information we have learned about how we evolved and how our brain works. Also, people now go around debunking myths of all types. Most have logical, rational explanations.

I've always found that evolution led by a higher power to be what I leaned towards. Why should it always be so black and white?

Everything know about evolution suggests it's built from the bottom up rather than directed from above. There's no evidence of design in evolution at all, and it's so inefficient (not too mention brutal) that it's almost impossible to fathom why a "higher power" would do it that way, certainly not a benevolent one. Of course, that leaves open that the higher power may be an irrational douchebag.....

[Bobarcord]

it's all a experiment being done by mice..............

[TAP]

I sure one day one will be able to explain infinity for you in layman terms. you just might have to wait a will.


It is funny that many ,many years ago ancient Greeks ,ect held their books up to be the words of gods . Now we sit in a classroom and chuckle at the stories. Will that be how it is for the bible in a few hundred year?

You can't explain it in scientific terms either...and when I mean explain, actually understand how it works, not just some wiklepedia defenition.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you're argument basically boils down to

1. I don't know what infinity means
2. Therefore no one else knows what infinity means
3. Therefore God exists.

[SLCPUNK]

Everything know about evolution suggests it's built from the bottom up rather than directed from above. There's no evidence of design in evolution at all, and it's so inefficient (not too mention brutal) that it's almost impossible to fathom why a "higher power" would do it that way, certainly not a benevolent one. Of course, that leaves open that the higher power may be an irrational douchebag.....

Perhaps a higher power would find it all irrelevant in the scheme of things. The brutality, or inefficiency of evolution are something we as human beings place emphasis on. Who is to say that any creator would "think" the way we do? Who is to say any of what we deem logical or illogical holds water outside of the human mind?

[Howard2k]

Everything know about evolution suggests it's built from the bottom up rather than directed from above. There's no evidence of design in evolution at all, and it's so inefficient (not too mention brutal) that it's almost impossible to fathom why a "higher power" would do it that way, certainly not a benevolent one. Of course, that leaves open that the higher power may be an irrational douchebag.....

Perhaps a higher power would find it all irrelevant in the scheme of things. The brutality, or inefficiency of evolution are something we as human beings place emphasis on. Who is to say that any creator would "think" the way we do? Who is to say any of what we deem logical or illogical holds water outside of the human mind?

Perhaps  - it would be better thought that perhaps if there IS a God, he doesn't care about the ridiculous popularity contests that human beings place emphasis on.   

But you're right, if there is a god we have no way of knowing what his criteria is.  Maybe he LIKES child molesting priests and they're all going to heaven and we're not.  Who knows. 

[Axl4Prez2004]

I've gotta say I love all the posts so far.  And yes, GeorgeSteele, the permanence of death is hard to grasp.  Obviously, that's part of the reason religions were conjured up.  In many ways religion provides peace of mind...that said, in my eyes, I see it more as an "ignorance is bliss" mentality.

Let's face it, if your life is a train-wreck and you're scrounging around for food, it would be nice to believe in something that promises better times once you're through with your life. 

The fatalistic outlook most religious folks have is something that really bothers me.  I have zero respect for this philosophy.  Nothing, no person, no God, no set of Gods, no angel, no aura, etc. has more power over you than you.  There's no greater threat to a person than what's looking back at them in the mirror.  Case closed.  Far more people off themselves every year than are killed by others.

It's unfortunate so many are drawn to the bullshit that is "organized religion."  But, that's how humans operate.  Follow the herd...  

[TAP]

Everything know about evolution suggests it's built from the bottom up rather than directed from above. There's no evidence of design in evolution at all, and it's so inefficient (not too mention brutal) that it's almost impossible to fathom why a "higher power" would do it that way, certainly not a benevolent one. Of course, that leaves open that the higher power may be an irrational douchebag.....

Perhaps a higher power would find it all irrelevant in the scheme of things. The brutality, or inefficiency of evolution are something we as human beings place emphasis on. Who is to say that any creator would "think" the way we do? Who is to say any of what we deem logical or illogical holds water outside of the human mind?

True, I suppose, but why do you then think there is a higher power behind it. "Brutal" and "inefficient" I agree are emphasized because of the way we think, but that's because we've evolved enough for our natural instinct is to see design and purpose in something complex. But without the higher power, evolution isn't brutal and inefficient, it simply is....and to me that makes much more sense.

[SLCPUNK]

True, I suppose, but why do you then think there is a higher power behind it.

I don't necessarily believe there is a higher power behind evolution (Saying "led by" in my other post probably took you off course to what I meant, and that is my fault.) But I do not find it unreasonable to imagine that a much more simple form of life was created earlier and has since evolved into what we have today. Nature created and left on it's own to flourish, with all the good and the bad (or what we deem as such.)

Buddhists, or those who practice Raja Yoga may not see a "victim" but rather a person dealing with Karma, the abuser now the abused and so on. Working, evolving, to a higher level of existence, over series of lifetimes to attain enlightenment. It can be a hard pill to swallow as it is a concept so foreign to us. (The Buddhist monks, beaten and tortured by their Chinese, see the people who brutalize them as victims of bad karma, and feel compassion for them.)

Right now, I find it easy to believe in a "passive" creator, who created life, allowed it to evolve on its own terms without interference. Rather than a heaven or hell, the higher power allows karma to dictate the individuals life(s), short term and long term. Nobody is necessarily a victim, nothing is brutal, or inefficient, it is just karma working itself out, every action serving as a reaction from behavior (this life or other ) prior.

[polluxlm]

Right now, I find it easy to believe in a "passive" creator, who created life, allowed it to evolve on its own terms without interference. Rather than a heaven or hell, the higher power allows karma to dictate the individuals life(s), short term and long term. Nobody is necessarily a victim, nothing is brutal, or inefficient, it is just karma working itself out, every action serving as a reaction from behavior (this life or other ) prior.

Yeah.

[crazycheryl]

I think Gods and religion add some value to society.

If someone close passes away, it is good to think that they have gone to a better place.

I am not a religious person though.

I think that's clearly a powerful motivation to have faith in a higher being - the need to feel that we have immortal souls.  In fact, when I die, it's not even necessary that I go to a "better place", I'll go any place (except New Jersey).  The permanence of death is tremendously difficult to accept.
 

Amen to that brother!

[crazycheryl]

The reason people are so doubtful these days is because of all the new information we have learned about how we evolved and how our brain works. Also, people now go around debunking myths of all types. Most have logical, rational explanations.

I've always found that evolution led by a higher power to be what I leaned towards. Why should it always be so black and white?

I find the limitations created by "faith" to attack the true nature of man: freedom. That, among other things, is why I frown on most organized religions. I find Christianity to be just as brutal, primitive, and narrow minded as Islam.

While I can not completely adhere to all Buddhist philosophies I have tremendous respect for their outlook on life, impermanence, mindfulness, and intent. This ideology provides the means to enjoy and appreciate my life to the fullest extent. That paired with a belief in a higher power makes my life easy to appreciate. Many things I can not control, I won't question why, I'll just let it be, and as long as I led my life with true intentions, then I am content.

I really don't think it is all black or white. I really believe religion should be an interpretation of what you value and hold to be true, even if it encompasses the beliefs from five different other religions because I don't believe any religion to be right or wrong (except scientology). And I apologize if anyone is reading this and they are a scientologist. Mostly, I was suggesting that research into our brain has proven that we can believe in something that is not concrete but also, those experiences people say they are having when they experience a near death episode are caused by chemicals or some matter that is triggered in our brain because our body is shutting down - most people equate it with seeing a bright light which they believe to be god or an after-life. So, all the miracles that people claim to happen, there is usually a scientific reason behind it.

And I do agree with your Buddhist thinking. I have found their beliefs to be closest to the way I think life should be. I agree with most of the teachings. The hardest I find to accept is reincarnation - because who would want to go through all this bullshit again? I guess that's why we can't remember past lives because if we could, we wouldn't want to go through it again and the suicide rate could be much higher. Any why can't we remember past lives? Remembering could help you to be a better person in your current life.

Anyway, I pick and choose what I believe. Most of it has a buddhist base to it even though I go to a Catholic church. Religion is very personal. But I must say that I probably have read about and researched other religions because of my fear of death. I want to see those people that have gone before me when I die, I want to enjoy music and laugh and just look at the peacefulness of nature. I find it hard to accept that it is just nothing after you die. No nature, music, or seeing people you once loved. It just ends and all you did in your life will be forgotten eventually unless you contributed significantly to society. I'm still learning to come to terms with it. Especially in this day and age, when everything is "move on, move on, move on" and so quickly. No tribute is paid to anyone in their death. Wakes used to be two or three days and now they are only a day and the hours are limited. Then the person is buried and you may or not go to a memorial, mass, service, or luncheon for the person. Depending on what is easiest for the family. It's almost if society is saying, well, he/she is dead, nothing we can do expect move on with our lives and the less time this whole funeral thing takes, the better because why should we put ourselves through suffering by feeling sad?

When I die, my kids will probably not even have a wake, put me in a microwave oven and throw me in the garbage. It's all become very sad.

[SLCPUNK]

I really don't think it is all black or white.

Nowhere did I imply that it was. Quite the opposite actually. That's why I said "right now", it's my current feeling on the life, the universe, and everything*.


*Mad Props to Douglas Adams-a tip of my purple wig to you...

[CheapJon]

this thread has 666 views

[*Timothy*]

your god(s) is dead and no one cares if there is a hell i will see you there

[Howard2k]

your god(s) is dead and no one cares if there is a hell i will see you there

Here is some punctuation and capitalization.? ?Help yourself:

YGII..

Spread those over your post and you'll find it works much better.

But for the record, I agree.? ?If there's an afterlife it's clear that the fun place to be will be Hell.?

[*Timothy*]

Thanks for that wonderful amount of knowledge , sir.