Why did "Libertad" flop?

[Bodhi]

it flopped because essentially it is a STP album...its completely vocally driven with the guitars in the background...its not suprising because they used STPs old producer, who has no idea how to record guitars...im sorry but when you have SLash in the band the guitars should not be in the background...i cant even fucking hear the guitar in alot of the songs...its sounds like a distorted early 90's mess...they had to record guitars like that in the early 90's because most guys simply could not play...but slash can....its just really weak...contarband was like a kick in the balls....this album just sucks...

[Trist805]

I see some similarities to Libertad and Audioslave's second album Out of Exile.  I remember hearing Out of Exile and thinking, man this is really soft, a completely different direction from the other album.   As much as I'm for experimentation, I would rather prefer them to just do what works.   I would have prefered another Contraband in the same kind of style.

[overmatik]

I don't know, but it's happening with most of the old rockers, take "black rain" from Ozzy, I loved the album and it sold poorly too... On the other hand we have the illegal downloads fuckin' with everybody on the business...

[Trist805]

On the other hand we have the illegal downloads fuckin' with everybody on the business...

Yea I remember when it leaked like a week or two before, and I felt really bad for them.? ?I'm guessing here, but I'm sure it cost them at least 5,000 - 10,000 units opening week, which probably comes down to a few thousand dollars in losses for the band.?

[seely]

Yea I remember when it leaked like a week or two before, and I felt really bad for them.? ?I'm guessing here, but I'm sure it cost them at least 5,000 - 10,000 units opening week, which probably comes down to a few thousand dollars in losses for the band.?

Yeah, but i though it was the actual bad who decided to prieview the record, not that it leaked.

Let that be a lesson to them.......

[guns_n_motley]

1. it sounds like pop-alternative and the guitars have no punch.? contraband with its flaws blows it out of the water...the riffs sound uninspired, like they just put them together the night before.

2. the schtick of "its a supergroup" wore off...supergroups generally dont work...they look good on paper but when put together just dont seem to work out.

3. no signature slash...I think alot of people came to the band expecting some hard rock coming from 3 guys from GNR. but it sounds alternative/stp...sure with Josh Todd or Baz, they wouldve sounded more "80s" or closer to what they sounded like in GNR, but then again it wouldve given them more longterm success.


I like scott, but its clear why they got him at the time. he was still a relative big name, and with his voice/persona could appeal to the alt crowd...its worn off.

as ive said before...axl Overthinks the music and doesnt put it out..VR underthinks the music and puts anything out...which is furhter proof why these guys need eachother..i know its a dead horse. but Axl pushes slash to play better...and vice versa, they push Axl to actually release music and leave the songs be..

[Falcon]

...or Baz, they wouldve sounded more "80s" or closer to what they sounded like in GNR, but then again it wouldve given them more longterm success.

Got to disagree with that, Bach would've never, and I mean ever afforded them any opportunity for staying power.

[Crowebar]

the masses wouldn't know good music if it punched them in the face.

Pretty much sums up the sad state of things.

[chineseblues]

...or Baz, they wouldve sounded more "80s" or closer to what they sounded like in GNR, but then again it wouldve given them more longterm success.

Got to disagree with that, Bach would've never, and I mean ever afforded them any opportunity for staying power.

He would have if the songs were great.....

[Ali]

...or Baz, they wouldve sounded more "80s" or closer to what they sounded like in GNR, but then again it wouldve given them more longterm success.

Got to disagree with that, Bach would've never, and I mean ever afforded them any opportunity for staying power.

Why do you think that?  Because Baz has the stigma of being associated with the 80's metal scene?

If so, do you think that factored into the decision to go with Weiland over Baz?

Ali

[PJ]

the masses wouldn't know good music if it punched them in the face.

Pretty much sums up the sad state of things.

bad trendy music also flops..
libertad is a great example

[Falcon]

Why do you think that?? Because Baz has the stigma of being associated with the 80's metal scene?

 

That and the perception of him in general.

If so, do you think that factored into the decision to go with Weiland over Baz?

Most definitely. 

That said, I don't think Bach ever had a chance at landing the gig let alone finishing 2nd in the running behind Weiland.

[Falcon]

Got to disagree with that, Bach would've never, and I mean ever afforded them any opportunity for staying power.

He would have if the songs were great.....

Great songs wouldn't/couldn't even overcome the inclusion of Bach in todays business of music.

[Ali]

Why do you think that?? Because Baz has the stigma of being associated with the 80's metal scene?

?

That and the perception of him in general.

If so, do you think that factored into the decision to go with Weiland over Baz?

Most definitely.?

That said, I don't think Bach ever had a chance at landing the gig let alone finishing 2nd in the running behind Weiland.

While I don't disagree, I think that it sucks that like Axl, people think of the perception of Baz and not of his talent, which is tremendous.  It's shit, to be more blunt.

If Baz really had no chance at landing the gig, then truthfully, they should've never even brought him in.  It was a waste of everyone's time.

Ali

[Falcon]

.. people think of the perception of Baz and not of his talent, which is tremendous...

He dug his own grave on that, he created the image and the perception isn't likely to change.

If Baz really had no chance at landing the gig, then truthfully, they should've never even brought him in.? It was a waste of everyone's time.

I have no idea how the audition process went, I would assume they gave him a shot despite his baggage hoping for the best then realized there was no way it would work once they heard the results.

[Ali]

.. people think of the perception of Baz and not of his talent, which is tremendous...

He dug his own grave on that, he created the image and the perception isn't likely to change.

If Baz really had no chance at landing the gig, then truthfully, they should've never even brought him in.? It was a waste of everyone's time.

I have no idea how the audition process went, I would assume they gave him a shot despite his baggage hoping for the best then realized there was no way it would work once they heard the results.

Baz did help to create his own image, certainly.  But, musical talent makes records and not perceptions or images.  I wish more people would realize that because it is true.

I'm sure they gave him a shot, but how open-minded they were going into the audition is something only the band will ever know.  I hope it was a legit shot because Baz's talent warrants that.

Ali

[JimBobTTD]

Sebastian Bach is truly awful. That new song of his they play on the radio occasionally is also truly awful. I for one am glad that VR didn't go for him. I can dig Skid Row, but that's nostalgia talking, not quality.

Horses for courses, etc.

[FunkyMonkey]

...or Baz, they wouldve sounded more "80s" or closer to what they sounded like in GNR, but then again it wouldve given them more longterm success.

Got to disagree with that, Bach would've never, and I mean ever afforded them any opportunity for staying power.

Why do you think that?  Because Baz has the stigma of being associated with the 80's metal scene?

If so, do you think that factored into the decision to go with Weiland over Baz?

Ali

This from a review of Angel Down from Glide Magazine

When Velvet Revolver was forming, Slash gave Bach a tryout but canned the idea, saying that the sessions sounded too much like Skid Row.  Jeez, what was he shooting for, Collective Soul?  Because that?s the thing ? if Bach?s the singer, it?s Skid Row.

[Jim Bob]

yea, bach and skid row go hand-in-hand.      skid row sucks so bad without him.

[requiem156]

it flopped because essentially it is a STP album...its completely vocally driven with the guitars in the background...its not suprising because they used STPs old producer, who has no idea how to record guitars...im sorry but when you have SLash in the band the guitars should not be in the background...i cant even fucking hear the guitar in alot of the songs...its sounds like a distorted early 90's mess...they had to record guitars like that in the early 90's because most guys simply could not play...but slash can....its just really weak...contarband was like a kick in the balls....this album just sucks...

I'm not that big a fan of VR, or STP, but I feel compelled to speak up when someone has no idea what they are talking about. First off, Dean DeLeo is a great guitarist who can hold his own with Slash. Second, the guitars on the STP albums are as upfront as you could want them to be. Have you ever heard Sex Type Thing? No? How about Interstate Love Song? Really - you never heard that one either? Interestingly, there are more guitars in either of those songs than there are in Yesterdays, and large portions of Estranged, or November Rain. Third point, Contraband was produced by Josh Abraham - the guy who produced Linkin Park, and various lesser known numetal acts - who absolutely does not know more about recording guitars for a rock band than Brendan O'Brien who produced actual rock albums for Soundgarden, Pearl Jam and STP. Please do your research.