What rules should be changed???

[sandman]

do you have a link to support this 50% figure? i find it hard to believe it is exactly 50%.

cause if your percentage is accurate, then the percentage of teams that LOSE the toss but WIN the game would be less than 50% because there is a percentage of games that end in ties. so it is not balanced.

[D]

I remember back in 98, Denver, in John Elway's last season went to Overtime.

The wind was blowing out of control to one side of the field. maybe like 30mph or some insane number.

Denver won the coin toss and instead of taking first ball, they deferred so they could take the wind.

They stop the team 3 and out and the team has to punt into that 30mph wind. Denver gets excellent field position with the wind at their back and win the game.


Still though, Id like to see each team get a guaranteed one possession.

I mean one special teams breakdown and the game is over. That isn't right considering how hard a team has fought for the entire game.

[Axl4Prez2004]

^ D, just ask the Eagles how a special teams breakdown on one play can cost you an entire game...and it doesn't even have to be in overtime!

I'll get back to you on the % numbers.  It was definitely a few years back where the outcome was split at 50-50 (or 51-49, 52-48) close enough.  I'll get back to ya'll!!!   

[Axl4Prez2004]

1st article from usatoday.com:  NEW YORK (AP) ? It may become harder for coin-toss winners to win an NFL overtime game next season.

The league's competition committee announced on Wednesday that it's recommendation moving the kickoff in overtime from the 30-yard-line, the spot in regulation, to the 35, a proposal to be considered at the league's owners' meetings next week.

Atlanta general manager Rich McKay, the competition committee's co-chairman, said the committee believed the kickoff spot was the major reason that 62% of teams winning the coin toss won overtime games last season, not necessarily on the first possession, but because of the field position they got. McKay said it stemmed from the change in 1998 that moved the kickoff back to the 30 and added the "K-ball," a kicking ball harder to kick deep.

Until then, winners and losers of the toss had won just about equally.

"This is something we resisted," McKay said. "But there was an advantage gained by the coin toss. We think we can cure those stats and make the coin toss less of a factor."


I bolded the important line...and I think it's neat they used my idea to move up the opening kickoff.

Now, the numbers:

I really like this article by the way.  It includes the statistics:

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/2-6-2003-35001.asp

enjoy!   

[freedom78]

I really don't have a problem with sudden death overtime...especially in sports where there's a constant flow between offense and defense (soccer, hockey, etc....but not basketball).  I think the way it's done really needs to be dictated by the sport.  Because there is no offensive/defensive separation in some sports, the sudden death is appropriate.  Because basketball is a high scoring sport, having a sudden death "first to score" rule would be silly.  So, I think the extra period of five minutes would be fine there, too. 

In football, the problem just seems a lot more complex.  You could guarantee each team a possession, but it either limits the game to a test of red-zone offenses (as in college) or will inevitably lead one team to better starting position.  If they want to implement the college model, then I think it could be improved by starting the offenses well outside of field goal range...perhaps at their own 40 yard line?   I'd be more in favor of putting some points floor in place that must be met.  While I don't have numbers, I'm betting an overwhelming number of overtime games are won by a field goal.  But what if the points floor was 6, meaning that to win a team had to score 6 overtime points?  This will keep some sudden death aspects (a team drives for a TD...game over), but would also make it more difficult for one team to win without the other receiving a possession.  It would also increase the number of real coaching decisions (other than "do we kick on 3rd down or 4th?").  Do you go for it, 4th and 1 from the 25?  Or do you kick it, and hope your defense/special teams can prevent the other team from scoring a TD?  It would be interesting, I think. 

But, then again, I like sudden death. 

[sandman]

kicking off from the 35 was considered by the GMs back in the spring. Peter King did a story on it. McKay is one that doesn't want to change it, but even he admits there is a problem.

that article you posted only goes up to 2001. the stats have really changed in the last 5 years.

i've watched NFL games end on the first possession and i feel cheated. i've never been disappointed by college OT. it's up there as one of the most exciting things in all of sports.

[Axl4Prez2004]

kicking off from the 35 was considered by the GMs back in the spring. Peter King did a story on it. McKay is one that doesn't want to change it, but even he admits there is a problem.

that article you posted only goes up to 2001. the stats have really changed in the last 5 years.

i've watched NFL games end on the first possession and i feel cheated. i've never been disappointed by college OT. it's up there as one of the most exciting things in all of sports.

Sandman, listen, honestly, you aren't reading my posts...at least the whole post.  The post clearly breaks down O.T. results into 2 eras, beginning of football through 2001 or 2002, and then it talks about since the introduction of the k-ball in '01 or '02.  It even mentions the issue of 62-38 over the last 5 years in favor of the coin toss winner.  Before that it was as close to 50-50 as you can get.  The k-ball and offense-friendly rules have slightly tilted the playing field.  The system needs a tweaking, not a complete overhaul.

Oh yeah, and if you feel cheated...blame the defense.  Blame the bad special teams.  The good news is, you won't feel cheated 4 out of every 5 overtime games.  80% don't end on the possession of the coin toss winner.   

[sandman]

kicking off from the 35 was considered by the GMs back in the spring. Peter King did a story on it. McKay is one that doesn't want to change it, but even he admits there is a problem.

that article you posted only goes up to 2001. the stats have really changed in the last 5 years.

i've watched NFL games end on the first possession and i feel cheated. i've never been disappointed by college OT. it's up there as one of the most exciting things in all of sports.

 The system needs a tweaking,

end of discussion. you agree.

don't try to say i wasn't reading your posts. you are picking and choosing stats that fit your argument. does it make sense to consider stats from 40 years ago when the game was drastically different with rules that were not as favorable to the offense? of course it doesn't. and after all your arguing, you even admit that you agree the rules needs to be changed.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Sandman, yep, we do agree.  Keep the sudden death, just move the kickoff up.

I just wanted to correct you when you said the article I posted only had info before 2001.  That was not true.  It had both.  In fact, it bolstered your argument for some sort of change.  I'm sure the rules committee will make a change if 60 or more % of games are won by the winner of the coin flip...

I'm guessing the reason they don't move immediately is the need for a long-term trend.  Over the past 5 years it sounded like 62%.   Before this past 5 years the darn thing was damn near 50-50, and for some time the kicking teams were winning more games.

BTW:  Sandman, you've gotta love this gritty McNabb performance on tv right now!  McNabb's 9 yard scramble for a first down with about 3 minutes left was huge.  This guy's a leader.   

PS, 97 yards in 1:53, Bears O vs. Eagles D...that's terrible.  What a kick in the nuts for Eagle fans.

[sandman]

Sandman, yep, we do agree.? Keep the sudden death, just move the kickoff up.

I just wanted to correct you when you said the article I posted only had info before 2001.? That was not true.? It had both.? In fact, it bolstered your argument for some sort of change.? I'm sure the rules committee will make a change if 60 or more % of games are won by the winner of the coin flip...

I'm guessing the reason they don't move immediately is the need for a long-term trend.? Over the past 5 years it sounded like 62%.? ?Before this past 5 years the darn thing was damn near 50-50, and for some time the kicking teams were winning more games.

BTW:? Sandman, you've gotta love this gritty McNabb performance on tv right now!? McNabb's 9 yard scramble for a first down with about 3 minutes left was huge.? This guy's a leader.? ?

PS, 97 yards in 1:53, Bears O vs. Eagles D...that's terrible.? What a kick in the nuts for Eagle fans.

again, looking at stats from prior to 1994 is a waste of time. the game has changed too much.

the only thing we agree on is that the rule is not working and it needs to be changed. there's many ways to change it and i'm not sure which one i like the best.

mcnabb gritty??? 

if you call 2-4 gritty, i guess we'll agree to disagree.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Sandman!  Pleeeease man!  I want to hear how McNabb was to blame for Griese leading an Elway-like 97 yard drive in 1:53!?!  The Eagles defense let the Eagles down, not McNabb. 

The record is 4-2 if the Eagles did the right thing and signed Allan Rossum or traded for Dante Hall so their special teams wouldn't blow their first game.  That was one loss.  Now, their defense clearly loses the game for them, and people still blame McNabb. 

As I've said before, I'm a Donovan fan from back in his days with my college team, the Orangemen.  I'll be happy as hell when he is the fuck outta Philly.  Pardon my French.  Donovan's a class act.  He won't say it, but I will.  Philadelphia doesn't deserve Donovan as their qb.  Stick Kolb or Feely in their next year and say hi to 5 or 6 wins.  Damn, that scramble Donovan had that went for first down late in the 4th quarter was total grit.  He's not even 80% back to running form coming back from an ACL.  I can't wait to see Donovan next year 100% healthy for a team that appreciates his heart. 
    

[freedom78]

I want to hear how McNabb was to blame for Griese leading an Elway-like 97 yard drive in 1:53!?!  The Eagles defense let the Eagles down, not McNabb. 

That phrase is almost sacrilegious. 

[Axl4Prez2004]

if I didn't watch the game myself, I wouldn't say it. 

[Loaded NightraiN]

I want to hear how McNabb was to blame for Griese leading an Elway-like 97 yard drive in 1:53!?!? The Eagles defense let the Eagles down, not McNabb.?

That phrase is almost sacrilegious.?

But he did man... He did the whole drive without any contact from the side lines, and no timeouts.... I wish they would let more guys do that!!!

[Axl4Prez2004]

actually, if I'm not mistaken, he ran over toward the sideline to get a (or some) playcalls after a spiking of the ball.  It was hard to tell from the camera used at that time.  Nonetheless, it was a hell of a drive. 

Thanks to the Bears for getting the Eagles really pissed off before they play my Vikings who seem to be intent on starting Turd-varis Jackson who actually has a broken index finger on his throwing hand!?!?   


On topic:  rules.  NBA...try calling traveling violations!  I was actually in a basketball officials' camp with special guest NBA ref Joey Crawford.  He was taking questions and it seemed like nobody else had the balls to ask the obvious...so I did.  "Why don't NBA officials seem to call traveling violations?"  I don't think he was too happy. 

If you ask me, raise the NBA rims to 10 1/2 feet.  Currently, it's ridiculous.  Just my 2 cents.  Oh yeah, and by the way, lower the women's to 9 1/2 feet.  In volleyball, the men's net is about a foot higher than women's.  Basketball should get with it. 

[D]

Andy Reid isn't too blame for Philly.


Donovan McNabb and management are.


McNabb cause he is an overrated, crybaby and Management for not spending money.

[D]

actually, if I'm not mistaken, he ran over toward the sideline to get a (or some) playcalls after a spiking of the ball.? It was hard to tell from the camera used at that time.? Nonetheless, it was a hell of a drive.?

Thanks to the Bears for getting the Eagles really pissed off before they play my Vikings who seem to be intent on starting Turd-varis Jackson who actually has a broken index finger on his throwing hand!?!?? ?


On topic:? rules.? NBA...try calling traveling violations!? I was actually in a basketball officials' camp with special guest NBA ref Joey Crawford.? He was taking questions and it seemed like nobody else had the balls to ask the obvious...so I did.? "Why don't NBA officials seem to call traveling violations?"? I don't think he was too happy.?

If you ask me, raise the NBA rims to 10 1/2 feet.? Currently, it's ridiculous.? Just my 2 cents.? Oh yeah, and by the way, lower the women's to 9 1/2 feet.? In volleyball, the men's net is about a foot higher than women's.? Basketball should get with it.?

U cant raise the NBA rims.

These guys can't shoot for shit as it is, Imagine if the rims were higher...................... U would truly have a horrible game.

[Axl4Prez2004]

D, you make a good point.  The NBA is slowly killing itself.  They're just f'd.  Crooked refs.  Spoiled felons playing the game.  It's just not fun to follow anymore...at least for me. 

The chicks' game really would be a lot more fun if they lowered the rims by 6 to 9 inches.  They play good defense.  They pass the ball.  Plus, the smaller ball gives them a better chance of putting the ball in the hoop, even though they already shoot a pretty good ball.

On mcnabb, D, don't make me pull up all the stats again!    The guy has done more in his career with shit receivers than anybody not named Tom Brady.  I just don't get the folks who want to judge him less than a year removed from ACL surgery.  This guy led a team to many NFC Championship games with Todd Pink"handbag"ston, and James Trash.  He even got them to a Super Bowl without T.O. (remember, TO wasn't there for 6 weeks prior to the Super Bowl, including the NFC Championship victory)

But, I'm glad a lot of folks are judging McNabb's career by what he's done lately.  It means my Vikes could actually get a 100% healthy McNabb next year and save some dough for a nice couple of wide receivers.  Add that to Adrian "the next Ladanian" Peterson, and get some help in the secondary, and we're unstoppable!!!    

[D]

Im a Cowboy fan, so take that with a grain of salt.


I just hate how T.O. got all the blame and McNabb perpetrated a lot of it by saying basically they made it to the Superbowl without T.O.

T.O. was injured and Donovan basically said they didn't need him.

Bad mistake.

[sweet616]

raising a basketball hoop would be rediculus in my opinion especialy if they had the womans lowerd...if they want to compete in a sport they should have exactly the same rules...so they should increase the size of the ball for them