Osama bin Laden plans on new video on 9/11

[Perfect Criminal]

At birth, everyone has the right to attend any college they want and become anything they want to become (at least in the USA). ?In fact, if you are born into poverty or as a minority, getting into a college is often made easier. ?However, between birth and college, what you do (your decisions) become the basis for moving into the field of study you want. ?For example, if you are lazy in school, if you become a criminal, or if you are just plain not that smart, you're not getting into MIT and you're not becoming an astronaut.. ?My point is that we all have these freedoms. ?Should some dipshit with bad grades be allowed into MIT to study Electrical Engineering just because they want to? ?No way. ?They should earn they right to be there. ?Obey laws, work hard in school, apply themselve and they can become anything. ?

I know the concept of "earning your rights" is a tough one for far far left thinking people who want to increase taxes (polluxlm I'm assuming your a conservative with your hatred for taxes so I'm not targeting you here) and increase welfare so the smart and ambitious can support the dumb and lazy (I know this is a huge generalization and in some few cases people may need welfare through no fault of their own - yet I can't think of an example right now). ?Now, when it comes to politics, I'm pretty much neutral. ?I can see many points made by both sides. ?I agree with many liberal viewpoints and a few conservative viewpoints. ?But I have to strongly agree with the poster that said we should not be paying students to study history or english or liberal arts. ?Let those that want to pursue those degrees pay for them themselves. ?As a nation we should be helping would-be engineers, doctors and scientists get through school so they can help solve issues such as global warming, energy shortages and water supply.

I don't mean to offend anyone here. ?But polluxlm, your list of freedoms that you don't have are ridiculous. ?Here in the USA we have so much freedom it's pretty much in your face. ?I think people need to stop once in a while and just think how good they have it. ?You could have been born in Ethiopia where civil war happens endlessly. ?You could have been born in any Middle East country where lunatic suicide bombers blow shit up (and yes this happened before 9/11 as well just not as much). ?My point is that you are free dude. ?Love life. ?Embrace your freedoms and be thankful.

[polluxlm]

At birth, everyone has the right to attend any college they want and become anything they want to become (at least in the USA).  In fact, if you are born into poverty or as a minority, getting into a college is often made easier. However, between birth and college, what you do (your decisions) become the basis for moving into the field of study you want.  For example, if you are lazy in school, if you become a criminal, or if you are just plain not that smart, you're not getting into MIT and you're not becoming an astronaut..  My point is that we all have these freedoms.  Should some dipshit with bad grades be allowed into MIT to study Electrical Engineering just because they want to?  No way.  They should earn they right to be there.  Obey laws, work hard in school, apply themselve and they can become anything. 

I know the concept of "earning your rights" is a tough one for far far left thinking people who want to increase taxes (polluxlm I'm assuming your a conservative with your hatred for taxes so I'm not targeting you here) and increase welfare so the smart and ambitious can support the dumb and lazy (I know this is a huge generalization and in some few cases people may need welfare through no fault of their own - yet I can't think of an example right now).  Now, when it comes to politics, I'm pretty much neutral.  I can see many points made by both sides.  I agree with many liberal viewpoints and a few conservative viewpoints.  But I have to strongly agree with the poster that said we should not be paying students to study history or english or liberal arts.  Let those that want to pursue those degrees pay for them themselves.  As a nation we should be helping would-be engineers, doctors and scientists get through school so they can help solve issues such as global warming, energy shortages and water supply.

I don't mean to offend anyone here.  But polluxlm, your list of freedoms that you don't have are ridiculous.  Here in the USA we have so much freedom it's pretty much in your face.  I think people need to stop once in a while and just think how good they have it.  You could have been born in Ethiopia where civil war happens endlessly.  You could have been born in any Middle East country where lunatic suicide bombers blow shit up (and yes this happened before 9/11 as well just not as much).  My point is that you are free dude.  Love life.  Embrace your freedoms and be thankful.

You're separating issues which are very connected. Society is not isolated, and while you may have 'every opportunity' in a strictly technical sense on one issue there may be 20 other things connected to that path which got different parameters.

Take education as an example: You say minorities and the poor are positively discriminated on applications, and that's great for them right? Well, for those people to even get that 'great opportunity' they have to hope their parents aren't so fucked up on drugs or in jail that they can even attend school without starving to death, then they have to resist the pressure from the gangs and the easy money as a corner boy. On top of that they have to stay focused in shitty schools where teachers are unmotivated,  classrooms overcrowded and textbooks are subpar. On top of that again you're required to study in a highly stressful, violent and distracting environment.

A little much to demand of a child, no?

So no, you can't just focus on one isolated societal problem and hope to fix it, because no problems are isolated. What people like me do is that we see all these fucked up situations and say: This is fucked up. You can make excuses for your system all you want, fact is you got some serious problems and they need to be dealt with. The same applies to my country and every other in the world. We need to use our power and tell all the corrupt leaders that they can jolly fuck off, we as a people want change and if they can't provide it we'll find someone who will.

Of course, that'll never happen for reasons too complicated to fit a couple of paragraphs, but it's a mindset we should start adapting. Not just point and say: "They got it worse!".

[norway]

All life is unique. Even plants and animals.

Like cancer and parasites? ...in the bigger picture I guess

You criticize the system you're either a communist or a fascist.

You are quite right, In many important issues for the betterment of humans, nature and life you will see democracy fails.
It is however an selection of goods and democracy is very relevant in that aspect

and increase welfare so the smart and ambitious can support the dumb and lazy (I know this is a huge generalization and in some few cases people may need welfare through no fault of their own - yet I can't think of an example right now). =

Most will get old/sick, they will get multiple diagnosis and they will need care. Unless you suicide, the win for the soul, when you get too weak.

In a sense,
when we democratic countries wan'ts our lifestyle to win through at the expense on another, think too about the benefits of other governing systems.

Wouldn't facistic China and Russia be better rigged to defeat global heating should their goverments decide that?
Norway can afford a reform to industry/lifestyle but will it happen, and would Asia have to suffer extreme poverty to deal with these issues?

Has a video been released yet, where is it?

[Perfect Criminal]

Good points.

Of course there are issues in any society that need work. ?No society is perfect, and I never meant to insinuate that. ?That does not mean that the USA (not sure where you live) and other countries like it aren't 'free' places to live. ?The freedom is universal to every citizen, but the circumstances and situations are definately unique to each person. ?The perfect example is that many people born into those adverse conditions make their way out and become very successful, even against the odds.

I agree with where I think you're coming from. ?We are not arguing different sides here (IMO), we are just circling the issue from different perspectives. ?

[Perfect Criminal]

Wouldn't facistic China and Russia be better rigged to defeat global heating should their goverments decide that?

I think the points is right there.  Those type of governments haven't and won't decide to defeat global warming.  Fundamentally, democracy will always get to those issues before other type of governments.

[norway]

But that is where the the international pressure/conventions/soceity comes in to play

[The Dog]

Students majoring in history, sociology and the like are not going to benefit society.  These are bullshit majors ...

Are you serious? I guessing the Humanities aren't your strongest area. I would have thought, that an educated military person would appreciate history.

Perhaps if the Bush admin knew their military history (korea, vietnam) we wouldn't be in Iraq....

[polluxlm]

Good points.

Of course there are issues in any society that need work.  No society is perfect, and I never meant to insinuate that.  That does not mean that the USA (not sure where you live) and other countries like it aren't 'free' places to live.  The freedom is universal to every citizen, but the circumstances and situations are definately unique to each person.  The perfect example is that many people born into those adverse conditions make their way out and become very successful, even against the odds.

I agree with where I think you're coming from.  We are not arguing different sides here (IMO), we are just circling the issue from different perspectives. 

Different perspectives indeed. I'm inclined to think that you view yourself as free because you see many of these issues as a natural result of our inherent nature. Therefore, although problematic, you see them as a product of our freedom?

Well, in most cases I don't believe that. I think a lot of it stem from conscious decisions, but that's another discussion (just wanting to know if we understand each other).

[SLCPUNK]

Students majoring in history, sociology and the like are not going to benefit society.  These are bullshit majors that produce college grads who work for 22k a year.  If someone wants to pay for these degrees out of pocket with no public aide, by all means go for it, but the people should not be paying for me to learn how to play the Oboe. 

This has to be one of the dumbest things I've read, maybe ever.

You can't be serious. Before it was just buffoonarism 101, now I've down graded you to "Troll".

[DevilHatesALoser]

Students majoring in history, sociology and the like are not going to benefit society.? These are bullshit majors ...

Are you serious? I guessing the Humanities aren't your strongest area. I would have thought, that an educated military person would appreciate history.

I was a humanities major.  It is a waste of time if you want a job in the civilian world.  Outside of academia, what can a history major do?  They have no skills and are just very well informed.  Thus why I say they only make 22k a year - their education isn't bettering the country or at least not to the extent someone would expect for their tax dollars.  I'm not being a hypocrite, I think I fucked up being a humanities major.  If people want society to chip in on their education, it should be something technical that will benefit the country.

[Bill 213]

Students majoring in history, sociology and the like are not going to benefit society.? These are bullshit majors ...

Are you serious? I guessing the Humanities aren't your strongest area. I would have thought, that an educated military person would appreciate history.

I was a humanities major.? It is a waste of time if you want a job in the civilian world.? Outside of academia, what can a history major do?? They have no skills and are just very well informed.? Thus why I say they only make 22k a year - their education isn't bettering the country or at least not to the extent someone would expect for their tax dollars.? I'm not being a hypocrite, I think I fucked up being a humanities major.? If people want society to chip in on their education, it should be something technical that will benefit the country.

Ahh cool, so now you're a communist also!!

[DevilHatesALoser]

Students majoring in history, sociology and the like are not going to benefit society.? These are bullshit majors ...

Are you serious? I guessing the Humanities aren't your strongest area. I would have thought, that an educated military person would appreciate history.

I was a humanities major.? It is a waste of time if you want a job in the civilian world.? Outside of academia, what can a history major do?? They have no skills and are just very well informed.? Thus why I say they only make 22k a year - their education isn't bettering the country or at least not to the extent someone would expect for their tax dollars.? I'm not being a hypocrite, I think I fucked up being a humanities major.? If people want society to chip in on their education, it should be something technical that will benefit the country.

Ahh cool, so now you're a communist also!!

No, I don't support public money supporting college - that is a major reason why college is so exspenisve.? But I have to work with in the system that exists.? Most of the areas of study aren't self supportive, they need to be subsidized.? There is a reason why 75% of humanities majors work outside their major.? There just aren't jobs out there for people studied in them.? I was a Philosophy and Political Science Majors, what the fuck can I do with that in the market?? I can gain an entry level management position, that is about it.? For humanities majors to even be competitive in their own field, you need at least a Masters and almost exclusively a PhD.? If we're going to have the government (mine and your tax dollars) pick up the tab for higher education, I want it to be for studies that will advance our society.?

[polluxlm]

This guy's a real piece of work.

[SLCPUNK]

I was a humanities major.  It is a waste of time if you want a job in the civilian world.  Outside of academia, what can a history major do?  They have no skills and are just very well informed.  Thus why I say they only make 22k a year - their education isn't bettering the country or at least not to the extent someone would expect for their tax dollars.  I'm not being a hypocrite, I think I fucked up being a humanities major.  If people want society to chip in on their education, it should be something technical that will benefit the country.

Define "benefit" to society, please, I'd love to see that one.

It's always the evil "socialized" boogie man for you. In reality, corporate welfare takes more from you and I than any individual or individuals combined could ever take. You drank all the right wing kool aide and think it's all welfare mommas living off the government teet-they misdirected you on purpose and you bought it, hook line and sinker.

[DevilHatesALoser]

Are you kidding me? ?I didn't say anything in there in an attempt to draw out an argument; that will now change. ?Excuse me if I think it's bullshit for a country to pick up the tab for any fuckin yahoo to find himself. ?I've actually been to college, so I know what most people are like. ? Anyone who's graduated college will tell you for most people it's a 4 (I guess now it takes most people 5 years) party. ?Something like 50% of people who enroll in college don't graduate. ?It's not fiscally responsible to foot the bill to let any idiot try to major in something that gives nothing back. ?That's right, when the government or society gives you something, you're obligated to give something back. ?I could give a fuck about you finding yourself while you get high in a fucking commune and discuss the evils of Wal-Mart and how Che Guerva was a swell guy.

Oh and to F'N Crazy and Butters, I'm not knocking history courses. ?Most college require several history courses to graduate which I applaud because a good knowledge of history is key to any educated mind. ?But someone going to school for 5 years to have a 4 year degree in the History of Film is a waste of time and our money - they can not use that degree to secure a high paying job and thus won't pay a proportionate amoutn of taxes back into the system to reimburse society for its investment.

Plenty of colleges offer scholarships based on Academic merit. ?If you're gonna use the excuse about the poor inner city kid who wasn't able to achieve a decent education to be competitive for that scholarship, did you ever think he was fucked anyway, meaning he would fail out. ?Some of you should look at the failure statistics of inner city kids that are given a free ride to college all in the name of diversity. ?Colin Powell came from a shitty neighborhood and look where he ended up. ?If people don't want to bust their ass and distinguish themselves, they shouldn't be rewarded.

College isn't for everyone and it ecspecially isn't for those who have already demonstrated their lack of control and responsibility. ?Alcohol and drug use are bad enough as it is now in higher education, the last thing we need is to allow every 18 year old join the party at our exspense before they fail out. ?Start to live in the real world and remember there is no such thing as a free lunch.

[DevilHatesALoser]

I was a humanities major.? It is a waste of time if you want a job in the civilian world.? Outside of academia, what can a history major do?? They have no skills and are just very well informed.? Thus why I say they only make 22k a year - their education isn't bettering the country or at least not to the extent someone would expect for their tax dollars.? I'm not being a hypocrite, I think I fucked up being a humanities major.? If people want society to chip in on their education, it should be something technical that will benefit the country.

Define "benefit" to society, please, I'd love to see that one.

It's always the evil "socialized" boogie man for you. In reality, corporate welfare takes more from you and I than any individual or individuals combined could ever take. You drank all the right wing kool aide and think it's all welfare mommas living off the government teet-they misdirected you on purpose and you bought it, hook line and sinker.

I outlined benefiting society above, but I'll spell it out even clearer here:  Providing a valuable service that benefits a large group of people and doesn't serve to solely or primarily benefit oneself.  Someone who contributes more to the economy than the average person and pays a higher tax amount refunding the cost of the education that was invested into them through public assistance.

I'm just as or probably more so against corporate welfare than you.  Farmers and companies should not be subsidized by the government.  They should be entirely self sustaining.  Do you want your hard earned money going to keep Enron afloat?  One of the dumbest things we're doing now is using tax money to subsidize corn growers for fucking ethanol - waste of time and money.

I know this concept evades you, but I am a libertarian.  I don't want the government or other people having a say in my personal life nor do I expect to have a say in yours.  I'm a capitalist who believes  the market can work everything out.  Read some Milton Friedman (his own works, not some video on Google) and then come talk to me.  I've read your book and frankly I found it wanting.

[fuckin crazy]

Knowledge is man's pursuit. Various disiplines might provide technological advances as the fruit of the quest, but knowledge is the quest ... first and foremost.

[polluxlm]

Are you kidding me?  I didn't say anything in there in an attempt to draw out an argument; that will now change.  Excuse me if I think it's bullshit for a country to pick up the tab for any fuckin yahoo to find himself.  I've actually been to college, so I know what most people are like.   Anyone who's graduated college will tell you for most people it's a 4 (I guess now it takes most people 5 years) party.  Something like 50% of people who enroll in college don't graduate.  It's not fiscally responsible to foot the bill to let any idiot try to major in something that gives nothing back.  That's right, when the government or society gives you something, you're obligated to give something back.  I could give a fuck about you finding yourself while you get high in a fucking commune and discuss the evils of Wal-Mart and how Che Guerva was a swell guy.

Oh and to F'N Crazy and Butters, I'm not knocking history courses.  Most college require several history courses to graduate which I applaud because a good knowledge of history is key to any educated mind.  But someone going to school for 5 years to have a 4 year degree in the History of Film is a waste of time and our money - they can not use that degree to secure a high paying job and thus won't pay a proportionate amoutn of taxes back into the system to reimburse society for its investment.

Plenty of colleges offer scholarships based on Academic merit.  If you're gonna use the excuse about the poor inner city kid who wasn't able to achieve a decent education to be competitive for that scholarship, did you ever think he was fucked anyway, meaning he would fail out.  Some of you should look at the failure statistics of inner city kids that are given a free ride to college all in the name of diversity.  Colin Powell came from a shitty neighborhood and look where he ended up.  If people don't want to bust their ass and distinguish themselves, they shouldn't be rewarded.

College isn't for everyone and it ecspecially isn't for those who have already demonstrated their lack of control and responsibility.  Alcohol and drug use are bad enough as it is now in higher education, the last thing we need is to allow every 18 year old join the party at our exspense before they fail out.  Start to live in the real world and remember there is no such thing as a free lunch.

Give? The Government doesn't give shit the public hasn't already given them, or should I say, stolen from them. You can barely take a step out the door without some of your money going to the Government. It's not our problem they rather give this money to big business or pay for another war.

And once again you're totally missing the big picture. Going to college is not a gift from the Government, it's a mutual beneficial deal. You get a good job, they get good competence. Of course it's not for everyone, but those dropping out will still have to get some other job, therefore still end up paying for what the Government gave them. Also, those not attending college are more likely to end up on welfare, and if it's something that's pointless to society it's that.

I agree with your view on capitalism, in principle, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't take a minimum care of our fellow human beings. You know, some support when things aren't going so great. That's the real purpose of society, not "get by or fuck off". At least it shouldn't be.

[DevilHatesALoser]

Knowledge is man's pursuit. Various disiplines might provide technological advances as the fruit of the quest, but knowledge is the quest ... first and foremost.

I get that. ?It would be really cool to be an academic intellectual with a shit load of degrees. ?I can't think of anything better than being paid just to think. ?The problem is that there isn't a high demand for that job and your average person doesn't possess the intelligence or drive to make it that far. ?If we're going to pay for people to go to school, there should be performance requirements as well as a realistic assessment of what that person is capale of. ?I like the idea of a free society where anyone can study anything they want, but they should have to pay for that. ?When you bring the government in, you have rules and regulations. ?Have you seen some of the area of study out there now? ?Sex is a fucking college major! ?Do you want your tax dollars going to some 18 year old virgin so he can laugh and giggle in some bullshit class? ?If I found Alladin's lantern one of my wishes would be for a Utopia where every person lived how they wanted the only problem is there'd be utter chaos. ?You want to live in bliss, you're only viable option is the Matrix, good luck.

[Bill 213]

Knowledge is man's pursuit. Various disiplines might provide technological advances as the fruit of the quest, but knowledge is the quest ... first and foremost.

I get that. ?It would be really cool to be an academic intellectual with a shit load of degrees. ?I can't think of anything better than being paid just to think. ?The problem is that there isn't a high demand for that job and your average person doesn't possess the intelligence or drive to make it that far. ?If we're going to pay for people to go to school, there should be performance requirements as well as a realistic assessment of what that person is capale of. ?I like the idea of a free society where anyone can study anything they want, but they should have to pay for that. ?When you bring the government in, you have rules and regulations. ?Have you seen some of the area of study out there now? ?Sex is a fucking college major! ?Do you want your tax dollars going to some 18 year old virgin so he can laugh and giggle in some bullshit class? ?If I found Alladin's lantern one of my wishes would be for a Utopia where every person lived how they wanted the only problem is there'd be utter chaos. ?You want to live in bliss, you're only viable option is the Matrix, good luck.

Not sure what planet you went to school on, but my scholarship required me to have a specific grade point average which I had to keep or lose it all together.

As far as "sex" being a college major.......you need to be a bit more specific guy.  Sex therapists actually have quite a growing career field (I'm suspecting it's because of all the bathroom stall patrolling going on these days and such)....Gender Conflict, which is the big kid term for what you're bantering about, actually plays a part in a lot of jobs such as marketing, political science, biology, etc.  I took a gender conflict class my freshman year of college and yes I'll admit it was perhaps the most banal class that I had subject wise, it was easy to see where it was tied to the other areas of study I mentioned.