Osama bin Laden plans on new video on 9/11

[polluxlm]

Things being worse other places are not an advocate for freedom, just excuses.

[SLCPUNK]

By this comment you are saying that if the Democrats had been in power during 9/11, we'd have caught UBL by now?

I don't like creating hypothetical scenarios to discuss, and I'm not here. More to the point I am stating the the NeoCons "war on terror" is a lemon . And that the man who orchestrated 9-11 is still making videos is a testament to their failure .

I'm thinking you are being sarcastic because I've never heard that opinion from anyone, even the hardcore democrats I know don't think having a democrat for president would lead to the capture of UBL.

You are creating an argument for me, and discussing that.

 

[Perfect Criminal]

Things being worse other places are not an advocate for freedom, just excuses.

Do you honestly believe you are not free?  Are you in the USA?  What freedoms do you not have?

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

once you've tasted freedom like we have here in the US,

people GOTTA stop with our so called freedom. we ain't free pal. we're afraid.

I feel bad for you man. I'm not even the least bit afraid. ?You have obviously never visited an oppressed country or else you would never utter such nonesense as this. ?We live in a very very very free society where we can even openly question our leaders. ?What do you think happens in oppressed countries when you opening question the leadership?

I don't want to insult you on line because that's just a lame thing to do. ?But you really need to think for yourself before you type. ?I might meet 200 people a week where Ilive and not one of them is afraid of UBL or radical Islam. ?See, freedom will do tthat for you. ?

I was in Syria, Jordan and spent a day in an iraqi refugeee camp at the syrian-iraq border. I think i know what oppressed is.
Now it seems that you took the words "freedom" and "afraid" too literally ...

Some lunatic fighting in a cave, with ak47 and no body armors CAN be free. you just dont know it.
A dumbed down 18 years old marine might not be.
The craziest terrorist in the clumbian jungle is perhaps way more free than you when you're shopping at wall mart.

i'm just saying, stop looking at the world through the same glasses. freedom is way more complicated than just "having the right to vote or to contest your leaders ' - look where it got your country ... and mine .... '

PEACE
gotta lot of work to do now, cya

[Perfect Criminal]

By this comment you are saying that if the Democrats had been in power during 9/11, we'd have caught UBL by now?

I don't like creating hypothetical scenarios to discuss, and I'm not here. More to the point I am stating the the NeoCons "war on terror" is a lemon . And that the man who orchestrated 9-11 is still making videos is a testament to their failure .

I'm thinking you are being sarcastic because I've never heard that opinion from anyone, even the hardcore democrats I know don't think having a democrat for president would lead to the capture of UBL.

You are creating an argument for me, and discussing that.

 

Good enough. ?I thought you were insinuating something else. ?My bad.

As for the failure to capture UBL, you could look at it the way you do...as testament to a failure by the Bush administration (and certainly it is partly the reason). ?Or you could just as easily say that it's a testament to how easy it is to hide one man in the Pakistan/Afganistan area. ?Hell, it took a long time to get the unibomber and he was in Montana. ?I agree that Bush has failed where others might have succeeded. ?But it's not like this is a gimme task. ?Nevertheless, I agree with a previous poster that said UBL is just a figurehead at this point. ?

[Perfect Criminal]

once you've tasted freedom like we have here in the US,

people GOTTA stop with our so called freedom. we ain't free pal. we're afraid.

I feel bad for you man. I'm not even the least bit afraid. ?You have obviously never visited an oppressed country or else you would never utter such nonesense as this. ?We live in a very very very free society where we can even openly question our leaders. ?What do you think happens in oppressed countries when you opening question the leadership?

I don't want to insult you on line because that's just a lame thing to do. ?But you really need to think for yourself before you type. ?I might meet 200 people a week where Ilive and not one of them is afraid of UBL or radical Islam. ?See, freedom will do tthat for you. ?

I was in Syria, Jordan and spent a day in an iraqi refugeee camp at the syrian-iraq border. I think i know what oppressed is.
Now it seems that you took the words "freedom" and "afraid" too literally ...

Some lunatic fighting in a cave, with ak47 and no body armors CAN be free. you just dont know it.
A dumbed down 18 years old marine might not be.
The craziest terrorist in the clumbian jungle is perhaps way more free than you when you're shopping at wall mart.

i'm just saying, stop looking at the world through the same glasses. freedom is way more complicated than just "having the right to vote or to contest your leaders ' - look where it got your country ... and mine .... '

PEACE
gotta lot of work to do now, cya

I'd love to hear what freedoms you don't have.   

[SLCPUNK]

 Nevertheless, I agree with a previous poster that said UBL is just a figurehead at this point. 

This may very well be true, although Iraq has done wonders to inspire an entire new generation of terrorists. I find it ironic that W's actions may be a more successful recruiting tool for Muslim nutjobs than any wet dream OBL ever had.

[Perfect Criminal]

 Nevertheless, I agree with a previous poster that said UBL is just a figurehead at this point.?

This may very well be true, although Iraq has done wonders to inspire an entire new generation of terrorists. I find it ironic that W's actions may be a more successful recruiting tool for Muslim nutjobs than any wet dream OBL ever had.

Yes, certainly.  But that was not the point that was made.  You said UBL's life six years after 9/11 is proof of Bush's failure.  My arguement is, that alone is not proof. 

[SLCPUNK]

Yes, certainly.  But that was not the point that was made.  You said UBL's life six years after 9/11 is proof of Bush's failure.  My arguement is, that alone is not proof. 

Sure is proof to me.

Anything else I added just shows how Bush has taken a bad situation and made it worse.

[The Dog]

 Nevertheless, I agree with a previous poster that said UBL is just a figurehead at this point. 

This may very well be true, although Iraq has done wonders to inspire an entire new generation of terrorists. I find it ironic that W's actions may be a more successful recruiting tool for Muslim nutjobs than any wet dream OBL ever had.

Yes, certainly.  But that was not the point that was made.  You said UBL's life six years after 9/11 is proof of Bush's failure.  My arguement is, that alone is not proof. 

i think its very safe to assume had the Democrats been in power from 2000 to present the hunt for OBL would have been much more successful than Wubyas. Case in point - OBL is NOT in Iraq.  Where is the US mostly? 

This is how the Repubs view OBL:

Fred Thompson?s reaction to today?s Osama bin Laden tape:

    ?Bin Laden is more symbolism than anything else,? he said.

Mitt Romney on bin Laden:

    [Romney] said the country would be safer by only ?a small percentage? and would see ?a very insignificant increase in safety? if al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden was caught because another terrorist would rise to power. ?It?s not worth moving heaven and earth spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person,? Romney said.

Bush on bin Laden:

    ?I truly am not that concerned about him.?


Romneys is the most      So its worth spending billions of Iraq and almost 4,000 American troops and galvanizing terrorists/insurgents everywhere.  As SLC said, OBL/AQ couldn't have wished for a greater recruiting tool. 

You capture OBL and show that we WILL get you if you come after us.  Show that he is not the magical hero, hes just a piece of shit man.  show him on TV in handcuffs, in court and being sent to jail. 

the fact that the most powerful nation on earth can't get one guy when we know what region hes hiding in is embarrassing.

take every troop in Iraq and all the money we've spent and put them in afghanistan and pakistan and trust me, we would have found him.  Thompson is right - he is a symbol.  and the fact that hes still on the loose and making videos is a symbol to every would be terrorist that you can jump up and punch the US in the face and we won't be able to hit you back.  hes a symbol of strength to them and a symbol of our weakness in the war on terror....

[polluxlm]

Things being worse other places are not an advocate for freedom, just excuses.

Do you honestly believe you are not free?  Are you in the USA?  What freedoms do you not have?

Income tax is not freedom.
Democracy is not freedom.
Being forced on drugs is not freedom.
Not being able to study what you want is not freedom.
Snapped by the FBI on suspicion is not freedom.
Being held in secret prisons without a lawyer or a charge is not freedom.

[norway]

You're from Norway, I think only Denmark is a better place to live in on a worldbasis...we're fine pollux, you are lucky so enjoy it

Income tax is not freedom.

We live in a togethernes (no idea what suitable word for felleskap is) where we all? chip in for goods, security and care.

You could have been a feared Viking and gotten wealthy on your buisnes, and if an king came to tax you for it you could kill him right-
-but then the godamn state(s) rised and ruined it all!

Democracy is not freedom.

In the Viking age with the old Scandinavian democracy the biggest numbers ruled too in "political conflicts" ...kinda

Being forced on drugs is not freedom.

Not gonna ask...

Not being able to study what you want is not freedom.

You can, I guess the state doesn't support it...thats all!

Snapped by the FBI on suspicion is not freedom.

Well thats something, they seemingly can do anything while others aren't even King of their own Castle

Being held in secret prisons without a lawyer or a charge is not freedom.

Good point, the argumentation was that terrorist (until proven otherwise) didn't deserve American law-protection. The world has protested loudly tho.

[polluxlm]

Income tax got nothing to do with chipping in. They want to tax gasoline, roads, food and corporations etc. that's fine. At least then I have a choice. But my body is mine, and what I use to can not and should not be taxed. That's slavery you can't escape. In other words, not freedom.

Being ruled by the majority, or as in our case the minority, is not freedom.

Not being able to attend a certain study because of money or past achievements is not freedom.

[norway]

Not being able to attend a certain study because of money or past achievements is not freedom.

Thats also nature for ya, only the strong surrives
I think we should be focusing on quality, a lot of paganist relegions did the same instead of "all life is unique" rhetoric.

A lot have their own independence, got a farm thats been in the family for traditions and could do exellent without state-support in any form.
I guess they are the ones that could whine about our democracy.

Most reap of the benefits for living in this country so paying for it is a fair game, imo. Anyone got video of this?

[polluxlm]

Not being able to attend a certain study because of money or past achievements is not freedom.

Thats also nature for ya, only the strong surrives
I think we should be focusing on quality, a lot of paganist relegions did the same instead of "all life is unique" rhetoric.

A lot have their own independence, got a farm thats been in the family for traditions and could do exellent without state-support in any form.
I guess they are the ones that could whine about our democracy.

Most reap of the benefits for living in this country so paying for it is a fair game, imo. Anyone got video of this?

All life is unique. Even plants and animals. Not to say we shouldn't use them for food, but it should be done with the proper respect.

Funny you mention pagan religions. Christianity and Islam are pagan religions, they just switched around some things. Sun of god became Son of god, three stars became three kings etc.

No, what I'm getting at is that society and the state should provide protection of our most fundamental rights. Like the right to shelter, clothing and food. The right to attend a University so you can develop your intellect. The right to proper health and elderly care.

But that is it. As long as your actions don't directly interfere with others the state should keep the fuck out. That means no stealing of my paycheck after I've spent a lot of energy earning it. No restrictions on what I choose to eat, inhale, inject etc. No refusing me at college because I suck at history, mathematics or whatever. No refusing me to work overtime.

You get the picture.

Not to say this can be done over night, but we should focus on achieving it. Today we have nothing of the sort. You criticize the system you're either a communist or a fascist.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

I'd love to hear what freedoms you don't have.? ?

You guys are just missing the point. And making the same mistake several analysts made after 911. When refering to freedom, to what "we" have here, the "way we live", and what "they" have there, and the "way they live". You are following the idea of the clash based on their "hate of what we are, not what we do".
That is in substance what the Bush admin. has repeated. And it is wrong.

Lets go back to what Perfect Criminal said
" He may get a few wack-jobs Americans to join him (like under 10), because once you've tasted freedom like we have here in the US, you don't run off to some god forsaken shithole to train to fight against freedom with AK-47s and no body armor.  This guys has to be the least scariest bad guy in history.  "

You start by saying we have freedom. Fair enough.
Then you say these people, fight against freedom. (if one could explain to me what does that mean, i'd be happy ... "fighting against freedom" that's a new one ... gets in my top 3 with the axis of evil quotes ...).
-Are they free and they're sick of it so they fight it ? that would be kinda philosophical.
-Or they are fighting other people who are free ?
*If they are free and fight other free people, they're egoistical prick who just want to be free alone !
*If they're not free and fight other free people, they're just .... oppressed and envy us aren't they?

but why aren't they free ? who's oppressing them ? Religion ? Power? Governement ?

Take the FARC, a very dangerous terrorist organisation according to us white men,  are they fighting against freedom?
Take the FLN (algerian liberation army after the war), were they fighting against freedom?
I could go on with several "terrorist" groups.

now, for al-quaida, it's different. A very different beast. Al-quaida has done more harm to all the "freedom fighters" across the globe than to the west.
But It's way more complex than "people fighting against freedom" under the rule "of a bad guy".


polluxlm : how do you want the state to support the poor as you said without stealing a little bit of you paycheck ? What do you do when a "few" gather more and more money everyday?

I love how people put side to side the word fascist and communism ... always 

[polluxlm]

polluxlm : how do you want the state to support the poor as you said without stealing a little bit of you paycheck ? What do you do when a "few" gather more and more money everyday?

I love how people put side to side the word fascist and communism ... always 

As I said, there a several ways the state can get the money to pay for our services. America was without an income tax for 150 years and did just fine.

You have to think in terms of principles. Does the state provide you with the ability to use your body and brain to produce goods? No, hence they should not be allowed to tax it.

Does the state provide the necessary framework for a company to exist? Yes, they organize society, provide legal protection etc. Hence, they can tax it.

See where I'm going?

It's not about not chipping in, it's about making society work with the basic principles intact. Not to bend and brake these principles because they're too lazy to come up with something else.

[DevilHatesALoser]

Basically I'm getting the idea that you fucked around in school and couldn't get into college because of your nation's gated system?? This is a good thing in my opinion and I wish America would adopt it for all public universities.? Students majoring in history, sociology and the like are not going to benefit society.? These are bullshit majors that produce college grads who work for 22k a year.? If someone wants to pay for these degrees out of pocket with no public aide, by all means go for it, but the people should not be paying for me to learn how to play the Oboe.?

I agree that people should be able to put into their bodies whatever they choose, but I realize that social medicine will prevent that.? If the government is going to pay for your care and they know a certain substance will increase the amount of money being spent on care, they're going to outlaw it.? That's just basic fiscal sense.? People who smoke cigarettes and dine at McDonalds 4x a day are going to require alot more money and attention versus someone who runs several miles a week and eats responsibly.? You can't have your cake and eat it too.? You want the government involved in your life, it's an all or nothing deal.? You can't lead a wreckless life and abandon all responsibiliy and expect society to pick up the tab to keep your heart pumping.

[polluxlm]

Basically I'm getting the idea that you fucked around in school and couldn't get into college because of your nation's gated system?

No, I can get into most studies with my grades. But others have this problem, yes.

[fuckin crazy]

Students majoring in history, sociology and the like are not going to benefit society.  These are bullshit majors ...

Are you serious? I guessing the Humanities aren't your strongest area. I would have thought, that an educated military person would appreciate history.