Montreal show tonight

[ShotgunBlues1978]

But the argument here is Slash didn't write it , why should he be playing it in a new band.

That's not the argument anybody has made. 

There's not even an argument being made by anyone but you.  I just said I think it's funny when the same people who act like it's blasphemy to say any post-Slash lineup of GnR performs Nightrain better than the old one, are basically the same ones who are first in line to say the VR version of Patience is better.

Those peoples argument is generally that the new lineups could never perform it as well as the old band because they didn't write it.  Even though Axl is a credited writer on the song.  And now those same people are the ones saying VR's version of Patience is better than the versions that GnR did last year, even though nobody in VR wrote Patience, and even though the man who created Patience played it with GnR at many of their shows last year. 

It's not even an "argument".  It's an observation, and one that I think is funny.  I never said I have a problem with VR playing the song.  It's fine with me if they play it

[Smoking Guns]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZYMvKaBufk

Jimmy Bobby, view the above link.? Its Scott's old band mates singing Interstate Love Song with new band (including a new lead singer) Army of Anyone.

So obviously, its okay for them to do it.? I have no problems, and niether should the rest of the GNR fans.

Jarmo, reference my above post again..  Its okay.  Scott's old band does the same thing.

[Ali]

Slash should get more credit.? Izzy's simple chord structure with nothing else if very bland, but put creative Slash solo's all over it and you have great music.? Basically, that is all izzy did, strummed chords and said... hmm? Slash, you should do a solo hear and steal the show... Ha!? I agree Chords to songs and Lyrics count as writing, but the other members add so much to the song that they should be mentioned. But the music industry doesn't do that.?

It's more of a matter of what you can copyright legally. ?As far as I know, what can be considered unique and copyrightable are lyrics and melodies, obviously not chords or chord progressions for that matter. ?Izzy wrote the lyrics as well as the basic music for song and at least some part of the melodies, which I'm sure Axl later made his own. ?Therefore he should get the bulk if not all of the credit for writing the song.

Ali

[Smoking Guns]

I agree....  But that song loses a lot with out the solo or outro which is all signature Slash.  Izzy would have been a great player in a band like STP too!  Great songs with okay solos.  I think Slash's guitar is as important as Axl's vocals.

[RageNirvanaNIN]

Slash should get more credit.  Izzy's simple chord structure with nothing else if very bland, but put creative Slash solo's all over it and you have great music.  Basically, that is all izzy did, strummed chords and said... hmm  Slash, you should do a solo hear and steal the show... Ha!  I agree Chords to songs and Lyrics count as writing, but the other members add so much to the song that they should be mentioned. But the music industry doesn't do that. 

Exactly just because it list Izzy as the "lone" writer , doesn't mean slash didn't write some parts.

[Smoking Guns]

Slash should get more credit.? Izzy's simple chord structure with nothing else if very bland, but put creative Slash solo's all over it and you have great music.? Basically, that is all izzy did, strummed chords and said... hmm? Slash, you should do a solo hear and steal the show... Ha!? I agree Chords to songs and Lyrics count as writing, but the other members add so much to the song that they should be mentioned. But the music industry doesn't do that.?

Exactly just because it list Izzy as the "lone" writer , doesn't mean slash didn't write some parts.

It was cool that Axl gave Slash a nice little line about the guitar melodies....

But really, though it was nice, Slash name should be on that song.. I know its Axl's baby.. On the PIANO!  Slash came up with the riff and solos and fills..  Hell, that is half the song!  That song with out Slash is nothing, that is why I get so sick of people saying who wrote what..  I could strum e,g,d,a over and over and over with Slash blazing away, but since I did the chords I get credit only?  lame.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

But really, though it was nice, Slash name should be on that song.. I know its Axl's baby.. On the PIANO!  Slash came up with the riff and solos and fills..  Hell, that is half the song!  That song with out Slash is nothing

The song is nothing without the person who created the song.  A song existed before Slash touched it.  Same deal with Patience.  What you said is as disrespectful as saying that Locomotive and Coma are nothing without Axl, like the guitarwork Slash did before Axl wrote the lyrics and laid down the vocals was somehow "nothing".  That's not true, and I'm sure you'd agree

[Ali]

But really, though it was nice, Slash name should be on that song.. I know its Axl's baby.. On the PIANO!? Slash came up with the riff and solos and fills..? Hell, that is half the song!? That song with out Slash is nothing

The song is nothing without the person who created the song.? A song existed before Slash touched it.? Same deal with Patience.? What you said is as disrespectful as saying that Locomotive and Coma are nothing without Axl, like the guitarwork Slash did before Axl wrote the lyrics and laid down the vocals was somehow "nothing".? That's not true, and I'm sure you'd agree

Right on.  The difference is a song existing before Slash touched it.

Ali

[darth monkey]

I don't think he said that at all, he said Slash played a HUGE part in Estranged. He was saying while some songs are only credited to one or two parties some songs were a big collaborative effort and no one can really tell what people ?were responsible for what parts.

As for the new Guns being like the classic Guns...well BULLSHIT!!! The only thing that is the same is the singer and the name. The lyrics are different cause Izzy actually wrote a significant amount of the lyrics and the guitar is nothing like the Guns of old. Whether people think it is better or worse is a matter of individual opinion but don't sit there and tell me they are the same. Axl's GNR is no more like the GNR of 1985-1994 than VR is or any other band for that matter. There has been a fundamental change in style. Tell me one of the new songs that has the classic elements of the 1985-1994 GNR.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

Tell me one of the new songs that has the classic elements of the 1985-1994 GNR.

The Blues, TWAT, Catcher In The Rye, IRS aside from the shred solo

[Smoking Guns]

But really, though it was nice, Slash name should be on that song.. I know its Axl's baby.. On the PIANO!? Slash came up with the riff and solos and fills..? Hell, that is half the song!? That song with out Slash is nothing

The song is nothing without the person who created the song.? A song existed before Slash touched it.? Same deal with Patience.? What you said is as disrespectful as saying that Locomotive and Coma are nothing without Axl, like the guitarwork Slash did before Axl wrote the lyrics and laid down the vocals was somehow "nothing".? That's not true, and I'm sure you'd agree

Hey, I agree with a lot you say!  We agree on more that disagree!  But just watch the making of Estranged and you see how gratefull Axl is for Slash and how Slash embraced it as his own song!  Just like Axl did with Coma with Slash handed Coma to him. 

[Smoking Guns]

Rose is credited with both Coma and Locamotive?  Isn't he?

[Ali]

Rose is credited with both Coma and Locamotive?? Isn't he?

Axl Rose is credited as co-writer with Slash on those songs.  My guess is that Slash came up with a riff that was the basis for the songs and that Axl added lyrics and melodies and other aspects I'm sure.

Ali

[darth monkey]

The Blues, TWAT, Catcher In The Rye, IRS ? I don't really think so. The guitar and the base of these songs is quite different, the one that is the closest is probably Catcher in the Rye, which last I heard from the rumours might not even be on the album. All the new songs are heavily industrially and electronically influenced. I'm not saying they are better or worse for being that way. I'm just saying they would stick out like a sore thumb on any of the released GNR records, about as much as My World sticks out like a sore thumb.

And yes Axl was credited for both Coma and Locamotive, song credits for GNR material was based on a weighting scale where lyrics counted for a bigger percentage than the music. I'm not sure what the exact breakdown was, but there was a system.

[Smoking Guns]

Rose is credited with both Coma and Locamotive?? Isn't he?

Axl Rose is credited as co-writer with Slash on those songs.? My guess is that Slash came up with a riff that was the basis for the songs and that Axl added lyrics and melodies and other aspects I'm sure.

Ali

That is what I meant... slash is not on November Rain or Estranged.. But as Axl said, nobody wanted to do those songs.. He had to force them too. But  he contributed so much to them.

[Ali]

The Blues, TWAT, Catcher In The Rye, IRS ? I don't really think so. The guitar and the base of these songs is quite different, the one that is the closest is probably Catcher in the Rye, which last I heard from the rumours might not even be on the album. All the new songs are heavily industrially and electronically influenced. I'm not saying they are better or worse for being that way. I'm just saying they would stick out like a sore thumb on any of the released GNR records, about as much as My World sticks out like a sore thumb.

And yes Axl was credited for both Coma and Locamotive, song credits for GNR material was based on a weighting scale where lyrics counted for a bigger percentage than the music. I'm not sure what the exact breakdown was, but there was a system.

There is nothing industrial or electronic about "The Blues", "I.R.S", "Catcher In The Rye" or "Madagascar".? Just because a song has a drum loop or synthesizer in it, that does not make it industrial.? Even "Better" is not industrial.? It's driven by a great beat and Robin's guitar melody and Axl's vocal melodies.? I don't know what rumor you are referring to about CITR not being on the record.? Unless you have something substantial behind that, like a source, please don't regurgitate stuff like that.? That's how baseless rumors spin out of control and are given more credit than they deserve.? Look at what happened with Eddie Trunk recently.

Lyrics and melodies were each 25% of the songwriting credits according the system devised by Slash:? During pre-production for Appetite, Axl said, "Slash devised a system of figuring out who wrote what parts of a song or part of a song. There were four categories, I believe. There was lyrics, melody, music - meaning guitars, bass and drums - and accompaniment and arrangement. And we split each one of those into twenty-five percent. When we had finished, I had forty-one percent, and other people had different amounts."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=32

Ali

[darth monkey]

The guitar is industrial-like in quality. It's sure not blues based (like the old GNR material) or punk or many other types of music. There is a lot of highly distorted power chords, and yes loops and so on which were not a tradition staple in GNR music. The solos are also way more distorted and sometimes shred like. I'm just saying this music is significantly different.

As for Catcher in the Rye I identified it as unsubstanciated so the reader would take it with a grain of salt, I never said it was fact. As for referencing your quotes, do you have a source for this cause I read something a while ago and I was almost sure Axl came up with the songwritting credit system but I didn't want to write it cause I didn't remember where I read it.

[Falcon]

Alright all, someoeone bring this back to VR's Montreal show.

Fast.

All this shit has been discussed ad nauseum a bazillion times.

I grow weary..

[darth monkey]

Ok, lets give this a try. Were people satisfied with the semi-acoustic set? Do people want to see it longer or not have it or have some different songs? I for one would like to also see them play You Got No Right during the acoustic set and perhaps even Fall to Pieces.

[Smoking Guns]

Ok, lets give this a try. Were people satisfied with the semi-acoustic set? Do people want to see it longer or not have it or have some different songs? I for one would like to also see them play You Got No Right during the acoustic set and perhaps even Fall to Pieces.

I say drop Fall to Pieces and add You Got No Right.  I like Fall to Pieces, but since The Last Fight is new, Keep it.  Fall to Pieces is overplayed in comparison to YGNR.