Pat Tillman, U.S. poster boy, assassinated by fellow soldiers.

[Bodhi]

Polluxlm....next time try to hide your erection when you have news regarding America lying.....

[DevilHatesALoser]

You don't follow illegal orders and no one would issue that order to begin with.

you would be amazed my friend.
would you like me to tell you a story about soldiers shooting innocent people just because they were on a street? soldiers that followed orders?

Is this something you witnessed first hand or 3rd party information?? Cause I've seen all the independent podcats where someone who's never spent a day in unform interviews some 20 year old reservists who went on one combat mission.? I'm sorry, but I'm not impressed.? Every shooting that occurs in Iraq must be documented and is then followed up by a CID investigation.? In case you haven't been watching the news, soldiers are being convicted for every infraction of the rules that is found.

i can tell you about an uncle of mine who died in 1989 when there was a revolution in my country and he was ordered to shoot in soldiers just like him from the same side, or soldiers who were ordered to shoot innocent people in the street that could have been their families. and they had to follow orders or else it was their life on the line.

He's not an American soldier.  With all do respect, the Armies of ex-Soviet countries or Latin America (where ever you're from) don't compare with the United States military.  The US Military is the most well-trained and equipped military in the world.

[The Dog]

Is the government not telling us the whole story....Yes.  Was Tillman assassinated by his own government?  Absolutely not.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Is the government not telling us the whole story....Yes.  Was Tillman assassinated by his own government?  Absolutely not.

I agree with Lil Butters on this one.  Like I said before, I'm very impressed with Pat Tillman.  He was brave enough to give up millions of dollars in professional football and risk his life defending this great country.....and I'm even more impressed with his realization that our actions in Iraq were plain wrong. 

btw, Dr. Cox, great quote,"Polluxlm....next time try to hide your erection when you have news regarding America lying....."  Polluxlm, that is pretty funny.   

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Polluxlm....next time try to hide your erection when you have news regarding America lying.....

Yeah, I second that.

To say he was assassinated conveys that he was taken out on purpose. It was friendly fire - ACCIDENTAL.

I do agree however how the military tried to cover up it was friendly fire and not from enemy forces was bullshit. The military handled that horribly -

[DevilHatesALoser]

Polluxlm....next time try to hide your erection when you have news regarding America lying.....

Yeah, I second that.

To say he was assassinated conveys that he was taken out on purpose. It was friendly fire - ACCIDENTAL.

I do agree however how the military tried to cover up it was friendly fire and not from enemy forces was bullshit. The military handled that horribly -

And a General is going to lose a star over it - proof that there isn't some grand conspiracy.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Like I said before, I don't believe in some crazy assassination conspiracy.  The general will take the fall, but from what's reported, it aint that big a loss for him.  I'm sure he looked at his choices and decided hmm, 1 star and $1000/month less in my retirement, or I might get away with making it look like a fuck-up didn't occur.  Unfortunately, friendly fire accidents happen.  I'm sure the U.S. soldier that got him feels terrible. 

With a high-profile guy like Tillman, I am sure he was put through the ringer upon enlistment in terms of questions, etc.  I have to believe the military knew his feelings on Iraq and that probably played a part in his serving in Afghanistan and not Iraq.  If I were drafted and given orders to fight in Iraq, personally, I would not.  Afghanistan yes.  I'd want to hunt Bin Laden down and take him out myself...but Iraq, no, it's disgusting what we (my country) has done.   

[fuckin crazy]

Inside the Iraq fragging incident
Retired colonel Jacobs describes investigation and risk for more incidents
 
MSNBC
Updated: 3:40 p.m. ET June 17, 2005
For the first time since Vietnam, the term "fragging" is in the news with military officials currently investigating whether revenge was a factor in the murder of two National Guard officers in Iraq

Sgt. Alberto Martinez of the New York National Guard is accused of killing his two superior officers after reportedly being disciplined by one of them and is believed to be the first soldier in Iraq to face such charges.

MSNBC military analyst and retired Army Col. Jack Jacobs joined MSNBC's Amy Robach on Friday to discuss the charges and whether there is a danger of fragging becoming a growing trend.


MORE

[DevilHatesALoser]

The article says it's an isolated incident.  There are bad apples and evil people in all occupations and walks of life.

[The Dog]

The article says it's an isolated incident.  There are bad apples and evil people in all occupations and walks of life.

yeah but the fact it happened should raise a randall flagg 

[SLCPUNK]

yeah but the fact it happened should raise a randall flagg 

Ewwww.....ahhh.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Seen that name around here before - who the fuck is Randall Flagg?

[DevilHatesALoser]

Seen that name around here before - who the fuck is Randall Flagg?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Flagg

[SLCPUNK]

I think the question really is: Who cares?

[supaplex]

You don't follow illegal orders and no one would issue that order to begin with.

you would be amazed my friend.
would you like me to tell you a story about soldiers shooting innocent people just because they were on a street? soldiers that followed orders?

Is this something you witnessed first hand or 3rd party information?  Cause I've seen all the independent podcats where someone who's never spent a day in unform interviews some 20 year old reservists who went on one combat mission.  I'm sorry, but I'm not impressed.  Every shooting that occurs in Iraq must be documented and is then followed up by a CID investigation.  In case you haven't been watching the news, soldiers are being convicted for every infraction of the rules that is found.

i can tell you about an uncle of mine who died in 1989 when there was a revolution in my country and he was ordered to shoot in soldiers just like him from the same side, or soldiers who were ordered to shoot innocent people in the street that could have been their families. and they had to follow orders or else it was their life on the line.

He's not an American soldier.  With all do respect, the Armies of ex-Soviet countries or Latin America (where ever you're from) don't compare with the United States military.  The US Military is the most well-trained and equipped military in the world.

if you are one of those americans who think your country is the best there is and your country is perfect i won't bother discussing anymore.
i'll say only one thing: orders are orders no matter which country you're in and there will always be soldiers to obey blindly and execute them no matter what those orders are.

[fuckin crazy]

if you are one of those americans who think your country is the best there is and your country is perfect i won't bother discussing anymore.
i'll say only one thing: orders are orders no matter which country you're in and there will always be soldiers to obey blindly and execute them no matter what those orders are.

Might I add ... hence, Abu Ghraib

[Juanjay]

You know nothing about me which makes your statement that much more dangerous.  You throw insults at people you don't even know and fabricate stories to build yourself up.  When you can't find someone to think something up for you to repeat, you resort to character assasination.  Real class.

Not to start a flame war but:

You are so fucking moronic Polluxlm and are so damn gullible it is truly pathetic.

that could be considered character assassination.




As for the real story its possible, but unlikely that it was an assassination. But he could've been killed by one of his brothers in arms, being a vet and having been attached to SOC units before I know that there are a lot of fights, arguments, disagreements amongst the people in the units. Don't think it would resort to murder but given a high stress environment such as Afghanistan it could've happened.

I believe it was friendly fire personally, but until the Army stops with the cover up and lets the after action reports out no one will know the truth except those soldiers that were there.

[DevilHatesALoser]

if you are one of those americans who think your country is the best there is and your country is perfect i won't bother discussing anymore.
i'll say only one thing: orders are orders no matter which country you're in and there will always be soldiers to obey blindly and execute them no matter what those orders are.

I don't think America is better than every country or that our soldiers are the most disciplined.  In fact that is part of my point, US Soldiers are no where near as obedient as soldiers in many other, poorer countries (which I think is a good thing).  US Soldiers would never committ the acts you decribed against their own people.  I'm sorry if you don't want to hear it, but the US military is far better trained and equipped than your own; that is the luxury of our defense budget.  US Soldiers follow(99% of the time) the orders that are right.  Now I'm not saying that what is right is always in accordance with the law (and that works both ways), but as a group they certainly don't follow orders that are openly acknowledged as heinous crimes.  No soldier would follow an order to rape and murder a woman.  Do these events happen, unfortunately yes, but they are few and far between and never condoned or tolerated by the military.  Just look at those recent American soldiers caught or the Marines last year. 

Maybe you get offended by this, but the US Army is alot more respectful and considerate than the Armies of 3rd world countries.

[DevilHatesALoser]

Your study involved normal people whom have never undergone military training.  I'm simply stating that the probability of US Soldiers acting out on these orders is extremely small.  There are fucked up people just looking for an oppurtunity to bring harm to others and of course some of these people exist in the military.  I'm saying that the US Military wouldn't behave the same way as former Soviet Bloc and Latin American countries.

I had the oppurtunity a few months back to train with some foreign officers.  The majority of the were from the middle East (Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Lebanon) and their beliefs and practices were much more different.  They had no objection to shooting and threatening "civilians" if they could gain valuable information.  Now while I certainly understand putting a gun to a suspected terrorists head, I know that it is against US policy and I would be punished if I did such an act.  How many other countries would allow enemy combatants to shoot at the from a Mosque and do nothing out of respect for rules of war?  I can only think of a few off the top of my head and they all are in Western  Europe.

[2NaFish]

Your study involved normal people whom have never undergone military training. .

from studying psychology at university i can tell you that soldiers are more conditioned to be submissive than normal people. i'm not saying this guy was murdered intentionally, but to say that soldiers don't follow orders that are illegal/immoral is just plain wrong.