Duff, "I would have salvaged things [with Axl]"

[Wheres Izzy]

As far as Duff and Slash not being motivated enough it could have had a lot to do with drug use. By all accounts they were both incredibly fucked up back then and Axl wasn't. How many highly motivated junkies do you know? I know pot-heads who won't get a job, let alone the heavy shit.

Very fair point.? All I'm saying is that the truth probably lies somewhere between what Axl says and what Duff and Slash say.? I think it's unfair that everybody automatically believes Axl is totally at fault and Duff and Slash are not to blame at all.? I'll admit that in the past I even fell into this trap as well simply because I wasn't as well informed as I am now, the media blamed Axl, the ex-members blamed him, and he remained silent for the most part.

In fact nobody except for the bandmembers themselves and maybe a few close to the situation know for sure what happened.? The one thing that us outsiders know is basically true is that their visions and motivations were just too different to coincide

I agree 100%. I wasn't absolving Duff and Slash from any guilt by saying it may have been the drugs hindering them.

[Jim Bob]

I agree 100%. I wasn't absolving Duff and Slash from any guilt by saying it may have been the drugs hindering them.

Drugs are no excuse

If they were still united, and if Axl wasn't a ''dictator'', maybe ''She Builds Quick Machines'' could be a GUNS N' ROSES song... you want that?

Axl's ''dictatorship'' was the best thing ever happened for GNR. At least, musically.

well said.  thank god Axl has the talented musicans in the band he has now.  I wuldn't trade them for the old guys for shit.  They can continue to make mediocre "hits" like She Builds Quick Machines.

[Wheres Izzy]

I agree 100%. I wasn't absolving Duff and Slash from any guilt by saying it may have been the drugs hindering them.

Drugs are no excuse

Thats what I said.

[Verasa]

As far as Duff and Slash not being motivated enough it could have had a lot to do with drug use. By all accounts they were both incredibly fucked up back then and Axl wasn't. How many highly motivated junkies do you know? I know pot-heads who won't get a job, let alone the heavy shit.

Very fair point.? All I'm saying is that the truth probably lies somewhere between what Axl says and what Duff and Slash say.? I think it's unfair that everybody automatically believes Axl is totally at fault and Duff and Slash are not to blame at all.? I'll admit that in the past I even fell into this trap as well simply because I wasn't as well informed as I am now, the media blamed Axl, the ex-members blamed him, and he remained silent for the most part.

In fact nobody except for the bandmembers themselves and maybe a few close to the situation know for sure what happened.? The one thing that us outsiders know is basically true is that their visions and motivations were just too different to coincide

100% Agree.. Slash and Duff have been really nice lately......and for the first time in my life, I heard say slash say he might be of partial fault

[Ali]

As far as Duff and Slash not being motivated enough it could have had a lot to do with drug use. By all accounts they were both incredibly fucked up back then and Axl wasn't. How many highly motivated junkies do you know? I know pot-heads who won't get a job, let alone the heavy shit.

Very fair point.  All I'm saying is that the truth probably lies somewhere between what Axl says and what Duff and Slash say.  I think it's unfair that everybody automatically believes Axl is totally at fault and Duff and Slash are not to blame at all.  I'll admit that in the past I even fell into this trap as well simply because I wasn't as well informed as I am now, the media blamed Axl, the ex-members blamed him, and he remained silent for the most part.

In fact nobody except for the bandmembers themselves and maybe a few close to the situation know for sure what happened.  The one thing that us outsiders know is basically true is that their visions and motivations were just too different to coincide

100% Agree.. Slash and Duff have been really nice lately......and for the first time in my life, I heard say slash say he might be of partial fault

There are very few things in life that are black and white.  Assuming that one party or another is completely responsible is just naive.  It's nice to hear Slash accept some responsibility for what happened to the old Guns.  I have been a fan for 19 years, and I have never, ever heard him take part of the responsibility before.

Ali

[ZRO]

it was always well known that duff and slash tryed to get the guns going again but axl must be stuck so far up his own hole that he didnt want it.

How's that well known again?  According to Slash and Duff that's the case.  According to Axl the other guys weren't willing to make the necessary effort to push themselves to the next level.  The truth probably lies somewhere in between

Nothing is "well known" about the situation by outsiders except that they had differing visions of which direction they should go musically.  The writing was on the wall during the UYI sessions, when Axl had to go to great lengths to get these guys to contribute to songs he'd written like November Rain and Estranged

i highly dont believe axl on that 1 that slash and duff wouldnt make the necessary effort to push themselves to the next level.

well, its quite obvious for me: Slash and Duff were recording ''Estranged'', ''Coma'' and ''November Rain'' while they were next to Axl. Now they are putting ''She Builds Quick Machines'' as first single of their last album.

If they were still united, and if Axl wasn't a ''dictator'', maybe ''She Builds Quick Machines'' could be a GUNS N' ROSES song... you want that?

Axl's ''dictatorship'' was the best thing ever happened for GNR. At least, musically.

Yeah, instead we've waited 15 years for MASTERPIECES like "Better", "Oh My God", "IRS", "Silkworms", etc. Good thing Slash and Duff weren't around to screw up such musical mastery. 

[Rose Democracy]

it was always well known that duff and slash tryed to get the guns going again but axl must be stuck so far up his own hole that he didnt want it.

How's that well known again?? According to Slash and Duff that's the case.? According to Axl the other guys weren't willing to make the necessary effort to push themselves to the next level.? The truth probably lies somewhere in between

Nothing is "well known" about the situation by outsiders except that they had differing visions of which direction they should go musically.? The writing was on the wall during the UYI sessions, when Axl had to go to great lengths to get these guys to contribute to songs he'd written like November Rain and Estranged

i highly dont believe axl on that 1 that slash and duff wouldnt make the necessary effort to push themselves to the next level.

well, its quite obvious for me: Slash and Duff were recording ''Estranged'', ''Coma'' and ''November Rain'' while they were next to Axl. Now they are putting ''She Builds Quick Machines'' as first single of their last album.

If they were still united, and if Axl wasn't a ''dictator'', maybe ''She Builds Quick Machines'' could be a GUNS N' ROSES song... you want that?

Axl's ''dictatorship'' was the best thing ever happened for GNR. At least, musically.

Yeah, instead we've waited 15 years for MASTERPIECES like "Better", "Oh My God", "IRS", "Silkworms", etc. Good thing Slash and Duff weren't around to screw up such musical mastery.?

Are you kidding right? Come on Better it's a really good song , OMG and IRS rocks dude.

[ZRO]

Not really.

[bart123]

all in all i really think slash and duff would have pushed themselves to the next level.why wouldnt they,they did it on the illuision records,wat would have stopped them from doing it again.i think this was just a excuse from axl.i know axl isnt to blame for everything about the break up and that slash and duff are at fault as wel.sure slash just admitted in a recent interview that he is to blame as wel.but i really do think axl put a nail in the coffin of the old gnr and that he is a major control freak.the new members have been waiting years for this album to come out,do u really think slash and duff would work that long on a album.look at in 1989 when axl said sighn over the rights of gnr to him that is wanting full control(a control freak)i think he had a cheek for saying that to slash and duff.they are needed just as much in gnr as axl,look at every review u read of a gnr concert these days,its always(its not the same band wit-out ex members)and its true.

[stolat]

Unfortunately Duff and Slash were unable to 'push themselves to the next level' as they both had addictions to deal with.

[Rocker_GNR]

it was always well known that duff and slash tryed to get the guns going again but axl must be stuck so far up his own hole that he didnt want it.

How's that well known again?? According to Slash and Duff that's the case.? According to Axl the other guys weren't willing to make the necessary effort to push themselves to the next level.? The truth probably lies somewhere in between

Nothing is "well known" about the situation by outsiders except that they had differing visions of which direction they should go musically.? The writing was on the wall during the UYI sessions, when Axl had to go to great lengths to get these guys to contribute to songs he'd written like November Rain and Estranged

i highly dont believe axl on that 1 that slash and duff wouldnt make the necessary effort to push themselves to the next level.

well, its quite obvious for me: Slash and Duff were recording ''Estranged'', ''Coma'' and ''November Rain'' while they were next to Axl. Now they are putting ''She Builds Quick Machines'' as first single of their last album.

If they were still united, and if Axl wasn't a ''dictator'', maybe ''She Builds Quick Machines'' could be a GUNS N' ROSES song... you want that?
Axl's ''dictatorship'' was the best thing ever happened for GNR. At least, musically.

Sure, why not?, if Axl put "My world" in Use your Illusions II, or "Shutgun Blues"...
Anyway, I am sure would be exciting hearing songs as "Slither", "You got no right", "Sucker train Blues", "Loving tha Alien", Set me Free", "Let it Roll", "Gravedancer", "American man", "Just Sixteen" performed by Axl, OR , hear song as "The blues", "Madagascar", IRS", "Catcher in the rye" by Axl/Slash/Duff/Matt....How you can see, we would have an Use your Illusion part III; but Axl and intransigence has not limit. He destroyed a legend to build a circus band what does not convince at all...

[fuckin crazy]

Unfortunately Duff and Slash were unable to 'push themselves to the next level' as they both had addictions to deal with.

Everyone had addictions to deal with ... and still do.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

it was always well known that duff and slash tryed to get the guns going again but axl must be stuck so far up his own hole that he didnt want it.

How's that well known again?  According to Slash and Duff that's the case.  According to Axl the other guys weren't willing to make the necessary effort to push themselves to the next level.  The truth probably lies somewhere in between

Nothing is "well known" about the situation by outsiders except that they had differing visions of which direction they should go musically.  The writing was on the wall during the UYI sessions, when Axl had to go to great lengths to get these guys to contribute to songs he'd written like November Rain and Estranged

i highly dont believe axl on that 1 that slash and duff wouldnt make the necessary effort to push themselves to the next level.

well, its quite obvious for me: Slash and Duff were recording ''Estranged'', ''Coma'' and ''November Rain'' while they were next to Axl. Now they are putting ''She Builds Quick Machines'' as first single of their last album.

If they were still united, and if Axl wasn't a ''dictator'', maybe ''She Builds Quick Machines'' could be a GUNS N' ROSES song... you want that?

Axl's ''dictatorship'' was the best thing ever happened for GNR. At least, musically.

Yeah, instead we've waited 15 years for MASTERPIECES like "Better", "Oh My God", "IRS", "Silkworms", etc. Good thing Slash and Duff weren't around to screw up such musical mastery. 

Are you kidding right? Come on Better it's a really good song , OMG and IRS rocks dude.

Don't listen to this guy.  Buy his criteria, You're Crazy, Back Off Bitch, Dead Horse, Breakdown, Locomotive, Estranged and You Could Be Mine are all "emo" and Axl's "whole record" is emo because any song about exes or past relationships is automatically an "emo" song.

He also said that the song Just 16 has "great lyrics".  Just to give you an idea about his taste in music.

[ZRO]

it was always well known that duff and slash tryed to get the guns going again but axl must be stuck so far up his own hole that he didnt want it.

How's that well known again?  According to Slash and Duff that's the case.  According to Axl the other guys weren't willing to make the necessary effort to push themselves to the next level.  The truth probably lies somewhere in between

Nothing is "well known" about the situation by outsiders except that they had differing visions of which direction they should go musically.  The writing was on the wall during the UYI sessions, when Axl had to go to great lengths to get these guys to contribute to songs he'd written like November Rain and Estranged

i highly dont believe axl on that 1 that slash and duff wouldnt make the necessary effort to push themselves to the next level.

well, its quite obvious for me: Slash and Duff were recording ''Estranged'', ''Coma'' and ''November Rain'' while they were next to Axl. Now they are putting ''She Builds Quick Machines'' as first single of their last album.

If they were still united, and if Axl wasn't a ''dictator'', maybe ''She Builds Quick Machines'' could be a GUNS N' ROSES song... you want that?

Axl's ''dictatorship'' was the best thing ever happened for GNR. At least, musically.

Yeah, instead we've waited 15 years for MASTERPIECES like "Better", "Oh My God", "IRS", "Silkworms", etc. Good thing Slash and Duff weren't around to screw up such musical mastery. 

Are you kidding right? Come on Better it's a really good song , OMG and IRS rocks dude.

Don't listen to this guy.  Buy his criteria, You're Crazy, Back Off Bitch, Dead Horse, Breakdown, Locomotive, Estranged and You Could Be Mine are all "emo" and Axl's "whole record" is emo because any song about exes or past relationships is automatically an "emo" song.

He also said that the song Just 16 has "great lyrics".  Just to give you an idea about his taste in music.

1.) You're wrong.

2.) It does have great lyrics. If you don't think so, you're probably a moron.

Anymore questions?

[Verse Chorus Verse]

A song about a teacher sucking off a student, yeah, that's real lyrical mastery.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

1.) You're wrong.

2.) It does have great lyrics. If you don't think so, you're probably a moron.

Anymore questions?

Yes, actually.  Are you just a troll, or do you just have the most ignorant and misinformed opinions humanly possible? 

[ZRO]

A song about a teacher sucking off a student, yeah, that's real lyrical mastery.

What is your opinion of "lyrical mastery"? Every song doesn't have to be November Rain. Sometimes the best and most effective lyrics are those that tell a simple story (see: Just 16)

Or, in GNR terms, something like My Michelle.

1.) You're wrong.

2.) It does have great lyrics. If you don't think so, you're probably a moron.

Anymore questions?

Yes, actually.  Are you just a troll, or do you just have the most ignorant and misinformed opinions humanly possible? 

Daring to think that the NuGNR tripe isn't among the greatest music ever recorded means I'm ignorant and misinformed? REALLY? You must not get out much, because most people outside of HTGTH feel the same way.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

Daring to think that the NuGNR tripe isn't among the greatest music ever recorded means I'm ignorant and misinformed? REALLY? You must not get out much, because most people outside of HTGTH feel the same way.

Saying that any song written about an ex-lover is "emo" and that Just 16 has great lyrics is pretty ignorant and misinformed.  Yes indeed

[ZRO]

Daring to think that the NuGNR tripe isn't among the greatest music ever recorded means I'm ignorant and misinformed? REALLY? You must not get out much, because most people outside of HTGTH feel the same way.

Saying that any song written about an ex-lover is "emo" and that Just 16 has great lyrics is pretty ignorant and misinformed.  Yes indeed

I didn't say one song about an ex-lover makes you emo, but when that subject tends to take over as the dominant theme of your album, or at least what we've heard of your album (as seems to be the case with Chinese Democracy), then yeah, I'd call that emo.

And yes, Just 16 has great lyrics. I suppose you're allowed to have your opinion, even though it's wrong. I'm not sure what you're looking for? A shakesperean sonnet? A Robert Frost poem? It's rock n roll, dude.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

I didn't say one song about an ex-lover makes you emo, but when that subject tends to take over as the dominant theme of your album, or at least what we've heard of your album (as seems to be the case with Chinese Democracy), then yeah, I'd call that emo.

So in other words you'd consider a large chunk of rock music, R&B/soul, blues, Latin music, country music, etc to be emo.  Such commentary really shows how limited your knowledge of music is.  Songs about heartbreak and lost love have been prominent in music basically since music has been around.  What you call "emo", in the way you're using it has been around since like the 90's.  So your opinion on the matter would certainly qualify as ignorant and uninformed

If you consider Just 16 to have great lyrics then you must think that about 99.9% of rock songs with simple and coherent lyrics to have great lyrics as well