The same setlist is not the same setlist

[jarmo]

No, its just a misunderstanding on your part.  The points that I quoted were separate from your criticism about their "danger," so there was nothing about "danger" in those points.  In fact, some of the posts from which I quoted were made before you said anything about danger or unpredictability.   

How can you prove that my point wasn't that since they're so fucking unpredictable, maybe they should play more varied shows while asking the fans what they think?

Because, if you read those posts, you'll see how I mentioned the unpredictability issue.

As a fan, which would you prefer? The current type of set lists or the kind where they mixed them up more?

As long as the show is great, I don't care what songs they play. I like them all.

I understand that most casual fans might get puzzled if they played something like Coma.

It's not the easiest song to get into.

You also avoided another question asked: as somebody who complained about similar setlists, do you not understand where somebody is coming from when they make the same exact complaint you did in the first post of that thread about GNR?
 

Not really because I made the post because of what VR claimed they were.

So management/record labels dont occasionally make decisions the band has nothing to do with?

Of course, but you went against the band's management's wishes.

No matter how you twist it, you did.

Thats not an answer, thats hiding.

It's an answer. I don't need to answer to you about how I get music. Which albums I buy where, if I receive gifts etc. It's really none of your business.

How did you hear them, out of curiosity?  Considering you do follow their every instruction, perhaps GNRs management gave you permission.  Is that the case?

It's really none of your business now is it?



/jarmo

[SterileEyes]

Here is a legitimate argument though - old GN'R went onstage every night and played different songs. Look at old setlist archives - they would play 10 dates in two weeks and on the 7th date for no reason they'd throw in "Locomotive" or "Coma" just for the hell of it. When they played four nights at the L.A. forum, they opened with Perfect Crime every night and maybe had the same couple of songs after that, but for the rest of the night, all bets were off. In my opinion that's what made them "phenomenal" and not just "great" as a live act.

What you say about Locomotive and Coma is simply not true. Those two songs were only played exceptionally: if I'm not wrong, ''Coma'' was played four times, one in 1991 (Richfield Coliseum), 2 in 1992 (Tokyo, Chicago) and one in 1993, which is the one allegedly included in the japanese version of Live Era. ''Locomotive'' was played just a few times, all in 1991 if I'm not wrong.

GNR setlists ALWAYS were very similar from one night to the next. Check 1993, for example. They were basically all the same, like now in 2007, that they are basically all the same: one night you have CD, one night you have Rocket Queen, one night you have madagascar...

I dont care about setlists. You will not find two identical ''Nightrains'' if you listen to all the 2006 boots. Every of them have something special, particular, different solos, Axl singing it different.

Of course I like ''surprises'' like in Madrid were TWAT was played, or in Detroit 2002 (or London 02) where Rhiad was played. But its a fact that only ''we, the nerds behind a monitor'' are the ones whining about setlists.

It would be cool to remind that Guns N' Roses dont do shows for us, the people sitting in a PC with a coffee with nothing better to do than that.

What I said was, occasionally they gave great surprises like that.  They'd just randomly decide "Let's play this 8-10 minute monster of a tune that we've never played live before...in front of 40,000 people tonight...just because we're badass and want to try something new".  I didn't say they played those songs all the time.

I meant, if they were in the middle of a leg of a tour somewhere, you never knew when they'd pull a surprise like that.  They also only played Breakdown once or twice.  Same thing.  You never knew when you were going to be surprised.

I don't think they were 'similar' at all from night to night back in the day.  Maybe they'd have a steady opener for a few weeks at a time and always the same closer, and ISE and Brownstone would always be early on in the set...but they were always adding/taking out random tunes (for example - '91 you heard Izzy's tunes, Perfect Crime and occasionally Bad Apples, '92 you'd hear Move To The City, occasionally Coma or Locomotive, '93 you heard Dead Horse and The Garden, etc.) and if you go through the setlist archives you see a lot more variation than you do these days.

And again, I'm not bitching.  Read my whole post.  I said I understand their reasoning for playing pretty much the same show from night to night and I said I was happy with the three shows I went to and that I'm glad people in other parts of the world get the same awesome experience I did.

And whoever is saying 'the band needs time to learn the songs'....well, no, I'm pretty sure Axl decides what they play.  If he told them 'go learn Locomotive, we're playing it next week', I'm pretty sure it would happen.  He's going with what he knows works, he has a lot to prove, good for him.

My ONLY legitimate gripe is when they play the same set in the same venue two or three nights in a row with maybe one song switched out.  That's the only time I personally feel this band should be changing it up a bit.  And that's my opinion, it's not a big deal, it's not an insult to the band.  It's just an opinion.

I'm not insulting the band.  This is called a discussion, I gave my opinion on the subject, that's it.

[acompleteunknown]

First of all, you can't refer to old GNR and the way they played ?a show. ?Those guys created those songs. ?It was easier for them to jump into one of those songs on the fly. ?They could bounce around since they knew those songs intimately. ?The new band is still mastering the old songs into their own. ?The new band needs to make sure their style is flawless. ?No one is a harder critic than a GNR fan (just look at this thread). ?If the new band just played songs in an impromtu way...the same fans complaining about the setlist would be complaining about the quality of the songs and that there's no flow to the concert.

Secondly, the band can't play new songs. ?The second they play a new CD song, it will be all over the internet in moments. ?People will be downloading the track before they're even done playing it. ?There's already 10 news songs floating around the interent. ?I think the band would like their to be a few surprises on the new CD.

There's an old saying..."If it's not broke, don't fix it..." ?If this setlist is working and the fans are coming away having a fantastic time, then why change it up? ? ?Why should they appease some guy watching a setlist update at home on his computer?

[Booker Floyd]

How can you prove that my point wasn't that since they're so fucking unpredictable, maybe they should play more varied shows while asking the fans what they think?

I dont have to - your original post didnt make that an issue.  Your original post simply expressed your wish to see a more varied setlist.  Thats an indisputable fact. 

Because, if you read those posts, you'll see how I mentioned the unpredictability issue.

Yes, several posts later, you mentioned that you thought it was "funny."  Your original post didnt make mention of it.  The two posts after that didnt.  In those posts, you just wanted to see different setlists.   

As long as the show is great, I don't care what songs they play. I like them all.

They put on a great show, we know that already.[/quote

They put on a "great show," yet you still complained about the songs they played.  Got it.

Not really because I made the post because of what VR claimed they were.

Heres your original post:

Here are some setlists from the European tour and some recent shows.

I was hoping they'd mix up the setlist for this new leg and play longer sets, but as you can see that has yet to happen.

Seems like Spectacle appears sometimes instead of Mr. Brownstone.


August 12, 2004
      Stockholm, Sweden   September 2, 2004
      London, England   November 1, 2004
      Austin, TX   November 6, 2004
      Southaven, MS
         
Sucker Train Blues
      Do It For The Kids
      Headspace
      Crackerman
      Illegal i Song
      It's So Easy
      Fall To Pieces
      Big Machine
      Set Me Free
      Used To Love Her
      Slither
      Sex Type Thing
      Mr. Brownstone
      Bodies   Sucker Train Blues
      Do It For The Kids
      Headspace
      Spectacle
      Crackerman
      Illegal i Song
      Fall To Pieces
      Big Machine
      Set Me Free
      Used To Love Her
      Slither
      Sex Type Thing
      It's So Easy
      Negative Creep   Sucker Train Blues
      Do It For The Kids
      Headspace
      Superhuman
      Illegal i Song
      Spectacle
      Fall To Pieces
      Big Machine
      It's So Easy
      Sex Type Thing
      Set Me Free
      Used To Love Her
      No More No More
      Slither   Sucker Train Blues
      Do It For The Kids
      Headspace
      Superhuman
      Crackerman
      Illegal i Song
      Fall To Pieces
      Big Machine
      It's So Easy
      Sex Type Thing
      Set Me Free
      Used To Love Her
      No More No More
      Mr. Brownstone
      Slither

You made no mention of the bands claims in that original post.  Were lying when you said you were hoping theyd mix their setlist up?  After all, we established that they put on a great show...but you claimed that if a shows great, you dont care about the songs that are played.  Yet you wish they played different songs.  Seems a bit inconsistent. 

Of course, but you went against the band's management's wishes.

No matter how you twist it, you did.

Okay.  I think youre under the false impression that I care.  Thats not to sound strident, either.  I just dont particularly care about what the bands management, or the band itself (though I havent seen or heard their opinion on the issue), thinks about the issue.  If the board permits the discussion, as yours does, Ill participate. 

It's really none of your business now is it?

Fair enough, but youre certainly in no position to talk about hiding, or avoiding questions.  Ive answered your relevant questions, youve dodged mine.

[jarmo]

I dont have to - your original post didnt make that an issue.  Your original post simply expressed your wish to see a more varied setlist.  Thats an indisputable fact. 

Because I knew how'd you react if I made it clear in the first psot. 

Yes, several posts later, you mentioned that you thought it was "funny."  Your original post didnt make mention of it.  The two posts after that didnt.  In those posts, you just wanted to see different setlists. 

Because those guys are so unpredictable.......

They put on a "great show," yet you still complained about the songs they played.  Got it.

Today I wouldn't use that phrase because I know what a great shows is.

You made no mention of the bands claims in that original post.  Were lying when you said you were hoping theyd mix their setlist up?  After all, we established that they put on a great show...but you claimed that if a shows great, you dont care about the songs that are played.  Yet you wish they played different songs.  Seems a bit inconsistent. 

See above.

The question is, when are you gonna admit that you lied when you said I never mentioned the unpredictability?

The idea of the thread was to see if others wanted the band to play longer. If they thought it was odd for them to keep playing the same sets especially since it was their second leg in North America.

I certainly found it odd to see the unpredictable band doing that.


Now, do I need to mention how this is different from GN'R playing shows with similar sets in Europe, North America, Australia, New Zealand and Japan?

Okay.  I think youre under the false impression that I care.  Thats not to sound strident, either.  I just dont particularly care about what the bands management, or the band itself (though I havent seen or heard their opinion on the issue), thinks about the issue.  If the board permits the discussion, as yours does, Ill participate. 

Oh, ok.

Fair enough, but youre certainly in no position to talk about hiding, or avoiding questions.  Ive answered your relevant questions, youve dodged mine.

No I didn't.

I just don't feel like discussing certain things with you.


What's your real name and where can we see a picture of you online?

Are you gonna hide by not answering?

See? Same thing.




/jarmo

[acompleteunknown]

Never fear guys...it turns out that GNR just did a surprise show at a Starbucks in New Zealand.  They heard about how upset everyone was about the  setlist, so they totally mixed it up.  Check it out:

Reckless Life
Shadow of Your Love
Move To The City
Axl orders a venti frappucino
Don't Damn Me
Sorry
Coma
Catcher in the Rye
BBF solo (Don't Get Fooled Again/Thriller)
Shotgun Blues
Piano Jam (Smells Like Teen Spirit/Why Don't You Get A Job?)
Since I Don't Have You
Bad Apples
Right Next Door To Hell
You're Crazy

Encore 1

The General, Pretty Tied Up, The Garden, Ain't It Fun

Encore 2

Rhiad and the Bedouins, Get In the Ring

It was a great show.  And everyone there got a free vanilla latte!!!

[estebanf]

Here is a legitimate argument though - old GN'R went onstage every night and played different songs. Look at old setlist archives - they would play 10 dates in two weeks and on the 7th date for no reason they'd throw in "Locomotive" or "Coma" just for the hell of it. When they played four nights at the L.A. forum, they opened with Perfect Crime every night and maybe had the same couple of songs after that, but for the rest of the night, all bets were off. In my opinion that's what made them "phenomenal" and not just "great" as a live act.

What you say about Locomotive and Coma is simply not true. Those two songs were only played exceptionally: if I'm not wrong, ''Coma'' was played four times, one in 1991 (Richfield Coliseum), 2 in 1992 (Tokyo, Chicago) and one in 1993, which is the one allegedly included in the japanese version of Live Era. ''Locomotive'' was played just a few times, all in 1991 if I'm not wrong.

GNR setlists ALWAYS were very similar from one night to the next. Check 1993, for example. They were basically all the same, like now in 2007, that they are basically all the same: one night you have CD, one night you have Rocket Queen, one night you have madagascar...

I dont care about setlists. You will not find two identical ''Nightrains'' if you listen to all the 2006 boots. Every of them have something special, particular, different solos, Axl singing it different.

Of course I like ''surprises'' like in Madrid were TWAT was played, or in Detroit 2002 (or London 02) where Rhiad was played. But its a fact that only ''we, the nerds behind a monitor'' are the ones whining about setlists.

It would be cool to remind that Guns N' Roses dont do shows for us, the people sitting in a PC with a coffee with nothing better to do than that.

What I said was, occasionally they gave great surprises like that.  They'd just randomly decide "Let's play this 8-10 minute monster of a tune that we've never played live before...in front of 40,000 people tonight...just because we're badass and want to try something new".  I didn't say they played those songs all the time.

I meant, if they were in the middle of a leg of a tour somewhere, you never knew when they'd pull a surprise like that.  They also only played Breakdown once or twice.  Same thing.  You never knew when you were going to be surprised.

Isn't today the same? For example, Guns N' Roses did almost the same setlist in all 2002. When they felt the need to ''be badass and want to try something new'' they played Rhiad (Osaka, Detroit). In 2006, the setlist was pretty similar night after night. And again, when they felt the need to try something new, they included TWAT (twice), ''Think About You'', ''Used To Love Her'', ''Down On The Farm'' (which is the best example of ''let's do it just because we're badass'').

The period of time between one ''Coma'' and the next was a lot larger than the period between the first TWAT and the second, same for Rhiad. Well, these are surprises: you cant call ''surprise'' Madagascar, because its played regularly.

Some people in this board want GNR to do a 50 song setlist, without solos and pauses, with Axl singing the 50 songs at 100%, with three or four diff special guests every night, and guess what: they also DEMAND surprises. That never happened, that is not happening and that's not going to happen. The day the whiners got everything they want from GNR, they will demand a newer thing, like Axl bringing Beta to sing ''Coma'' or something, because they CANT be happy with what GNR offers. Simple as that.

Anyway, its good to see GNR doing what they want to do. That is more ''unpredictable'' than doing what some whining nerds want them to do.

PS: under no circunstances I'm calling YOU a whiner, dont worry, but there were and there are lots of them in this forum, who are unable to be happy with GNR, no matter what GNR can do.

[faldor]

Never fear guys...it turns out that GNR just did a surprise show at a Starbucks in New Zealand.? They heard about how upset everyone was about the? setlist, so they totally mixed it up.? Check it out:

Reckless Life
Shadow of Your Love
Move To The City
Axl orders a venti frappucino
Don't Damn Me
Sorry
Coma
Catcher in the Rye
BBF solo (Don't Get Fooled Again/Thriller)
Shotgun Blues
Piano Jam (Smells Like Teen Spirit/Why Don't You Get A Job?)
Since I Don't Have You
Bad Apples
Right Next Door To Hell
You're Crazy

Encore 1

The General, Pretty Tied Up, The Garden, Ain't It Fun

Encore 2

Rhiad and the Bedouins, Get In the Ring

It was a great show.? And everyone there got a free vanilla latte!!!

That setlist looks ridiculous without all the staple tunes on it, but I'm sure people sitting at home on their cpu's would be stoked at such a set.  On the other hand, for the people actually attending the show, I could only imagine the booing and riots.  No WTTJ, SCOM, PC?  WTF?

Funny post though, and quite the creative setlist.  I'd enjoy that set for an impromptu jam at my local Starbuck's, I just don't think it'd go over well in front of 15,000 fans.

[stolat]

You also have to think of the performers doing the doing. They must also ride the momentum of the live gig and adjust to the vibe of the audience. The guys on stage are not performing monkeys who can turn it on instantly, some songs are used as motivation for the next song.......

Apply the acting cliche "what's my motivation?" here (trick of the trade)........