GOP ready to "Cut n Run" from Iraq

[fuckin crazy]

ironically, its a choice between endless war fueled by the presence of foreign troops or genocide if they leave

I think its time to cut and run and do all we can to keep the genocide confined to one place

I suggest a giant wall

...you got a better idea?

E=MC? ... I joke ... I joke.
I've been drinking; give me a break.

[JMack]

Maybe things will settle down once the new GnR C.D. is released.  Everyone will calm down and get along so we can leave.

[stolat]

Hang in there JMack, Axl will have you coming home soon! 

[Dr. Blutarsky]

But cutting and running would make things even worse.

With out a 'strong man' in control , that whole region has been a clusterfuck since the first part of the last century . Lord Curzon was an intelligent man , but we are still receiving the dividends from his ignorance of geography .

Saddam kept it together by killing off several hundred thousand of his enemies. It worked, but crimes against humanity is a problem in the international community.

Iraqis need to step up, I think that is the bottom line. I hope for everyone's sake they do, but who knows? We can't provide for their security indefinitely.

[SLCPUNK]

Saddam kept it together by killing off several hundred thousand of his enemies. It worked, but crimes against humanity is a problem in the international community.

While this is true, it had nothing to do with the 9-11 attack. There are crimes of humanity all over the globe by vicious dictators and war lords, but those do not sit on the second largest reserve of sweet crude now do they?

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Saddam kept it together by killing off several hundred thousand of his enemies. It worked, but crimes against humanity is a problem in the international community.

While this is true, it had nothing to do with the 9-11 attack. There are crimes of humanity all over the globe by vicious dictators and war lords, but those do not sit on the second largest reserve of sweet crude now do they?

Believe me, Saddam's connection to 9-11 is not there. In 2003, a broad picture was painted between the two and we were all still in post traumatic stress disorder as a nation regarding 9-11.

We haven't sent any troops to Danfur and there is a genocide happening there. Then again the justification of going into Iraq was WMD's not  so much human rights abuses. 

We had Saddam pretty much in a box with the no-fly zones and sanctions. If Saddam did not overplay his hand maybe we would have never went into Iraq. Saddam knew he had no WMD's like Bush thought. If he did not have WMD's why did he not cooperate with the UN? I think it was a dumb move on his part.

To sum it up, we never should have gone into Iraq, but we can't go back in time. We need to be careful we don't leave a bigger mess behind. I guess I'm still somewhat of an optimist that all is not lost unlike most people around here.

[SLCPUNK]

We had Saddam pretty much in a box with the no-fly zones and sanctions. If Saddam did not overplay his hand maybe we would have never went into Iraq. Saddam knew he had no WMD's like Bush thought. If he did not have WMD's why did he not cooperate with the UN? I think it was a dumb move on his part.

I'm an optimist my nature, but the bottom line is reality dude.

The biggest lie after the WMD was the Saddam not co-operating bit. While it is true that he did not go along in the past, he was co-operating this time, according to Hans Blix and the UN, and it was Bush who kicked the inspectors out. That is key here, Bush kicked them out and proceeded to occupy that country.

[The Chad Cometh]

I can't believe people still think the war was about oil. Gimme a fucking break.

[fuckin crazy]

quote from Bud Fox:

"Well, we're not just there for oil-it's really all about the freedom, and purple fingers. Dick Cheney loves purple fingers."?

 You gotta love those purple fingers.

[SLCPUNK]

I can't believe people still think the war was about oil. Gimme a fucking break.

What the hell is it about then?

Goldman Sachs is predicting 100/barrel oil very soon. India, China, and other emerging markets have driven up demand, and we use 25 percent of the worlds crude. We need oil.

The U.S.-appointed interim Prime Minister gave private corporations, not Iraqi Nationals, the exclusive right for oil exploration in Iraq. This means, those rights to create new oil fields go to the highest bidder. Who do you think that is going to be? And isn't it something else that a recent report (a few months back) concluded that there is double the amount of sweet crude under that sand, second now only to Saudi Arabia. The biggest prize in Iraq is the untapped, cheap to produce, sweet crude just waiting for the oil giants to dig up.

You put that with the fact that Cheney was looking at Iraq before 9-11 even happened-his secret energy task force-and it's pretty obvious what is going on.

Some smaller contracts have been given out already to those emerging markets, but those pale in comparison to what is to come. The big fish are waiting patiently on the sidelines for the storm to quiet down before they take their prize, there is no doubt about it.

I remember everybody telling me I was a conspiracy theory nut who hated my country years back. Well everything I said turned out to be dead on. This will be too, and I'll be here to tell all you guys "I told you so" when big oil takes there piece of Iraq.

[The Chad Cometh]

Big oil taking their piece of Iraq will prove jack shit mate. Nothin. It's going to happen, plain as day. A fucking idiot can see that. That will only be a target of opportunity though. A case of "well we're here now, it would be idiotic to not harvest some of this oil"

But if you seriously believe Bush et al. invaded another country, sacrificing thousands of American and Iraqi lives just to get some oil then you're a head case man. Do you know how much fucking oil there is in the world? We're not running out anytime soon.

[SLCPUNK]

Big oil taking their piece of Iraq will prove jack shit mate.

The hell it won't.

But if you seriously believe Bush et al. invaded another country, sacrificing thousands of American and Iraqi lives just to get some oil then you're a head case man. Do you know how much fucking oil there is in the world? We're not running out anytime soon.

Do you know how much is left in the world vs demand? It's not a matter of running out. It's a matter of more demand than supply.

Ever read up on Hubbert's peak oil theory?

I think oil was not the primary reason, (although it was one of them ) but I believe Bush thought it would be a cake walk and never imagined what would happen in regards to the hundreds of thousands that have died over there. Cheney's secret energy task force's maps, forced out of his hands by the freedom of information act, seal the deal for me-so yea-sorry.

[The Chad Cometh]

Hadn't heard of the peak oil theory so I hit the Wiki and found myself extremely unimpressed.

Basicly it goes like this ...

We develop the ability to gather oil from the earth - production goes up
We refine these techniques - production goes up more
We develop technologies that require the use of oil - production goes up yet again
We use these technologies to futher refine the collection process - that damn production never slows down

BUT THEN

As the earth runs out of oil - production goes down AT THE SAME EXACT RATE AS IT WENT UP ... HA! LMAO!

Gimme a fucking break. How the hell can you put an exact year on when the world will find oil collection unsustainable when we have no fucking clue how much we have and are constantly finding more?

To me, the whole things reads like someone has over simplified the argument, made a nice symmetrical bell curve and whacked NOW in the peak.

Throughout 2001-2003, in his monthly newsletters, Campbell maintained that his 1996 prediction of a peak in 2000 was unchallenged. Finally in his April 2004 Newsletter, Campbell relented and shifted the peak to 2010. Later this was brought forward to 2007 but in October 2005, was shifted back to 2010

Now of course there is no exact answer when it comes to environmental science (which is primarily why I find the whole "people are causing global warming" argument to be so irksome as environmental scientists spout their educated opinions as fact), but I find this funny. Anyone wanna have a poll o how many times that target gets pushed back until one day in 2027 or something he starts shouting "SEE I WAS RIGHT!!".

[Booker Floyd]

To sum it up, we never should have gone into Iraq, but we can't go back in time.

Did you support the invasion?

[SLCPUNK]

There is endless reading on the subject, and you seem to have really twisted it around to avoid the point. I glanced at the wiki page and it explains why the date was changed a couple of times, nice n clear.

I don't want to get side tracked on the peak oil theory though. Some people thought real estate would only go up forever too, and those people are shitting themselves now. In reality, demand is up for oil, and supply is on shaky ground. America uses 1/4th the worlds oil, our population is booming, as is emerging markets.

A post sanction Iraq had us way down at the bottom of the ladder in regards to oil contracts. Cheney's secret energy task force maps showed that we were behind China, France etc.  Those maps had Iraq broken down into exploration, reserves, refineries and so on...and all this before 9-11. Why do you think that was?

We discarded Saddam, appointed a US appointed puppet government to draw up a Constitution that rewarded new exploration sites to the highest bidder, and have since found out that Iraq has double the amount of sweet crude under it's sand. That is all fact, no disputing it. You may come to the conclusion you like, but I prefer going by what we know.

If going into Iraq wasn't motivated by oil, which  is essential to our economy and every aspect of our life as we know it, then what was it for? Bush thought it would be a stroll in the park-that's what he thought. He'd reward fat cat contracts to his corporate buddies (who have since been found guilty of ripping off taxpayers-yet still given more contracts after that), and set up the big oil firms for the future. The worst thing about it all was that the occupation was under the guise of "fighting terror" and played on the emotions of the image of 9-11 in order to receive the green light from the public. All while letting the real terrorists run away and grow stronger (Again, another fact.) You think this isn't about oil, you are out of your fucking mind.

[norway]

I bet if poland was there in force Iraq would ahve been done and over by now............................................................................

The Poles would have been smart enough to go after the actual terrorists and stay clear of Iraq.

Tho it wasn't right going to war at that time, getting Saddam out of power is good.
If the end justify the mean is something we can argue about in 5-10 years.

USA don't have any credibility being an exmple for forwarding human rights and peace so maybe this is an solution. 

[SLCPUNK]

quote from Bud Fox:

"Well, we're not just there for oil-it's really all about the freedom, and purple fingers. Dick Cheney loves purple fingers."

 You gotta love those purple fingers.

Purple fingers, served Sunni side up...

[fuckin crazy]

Big oil taking their piece of Iraq will prove jack shit mate. Nothin. It's going to happen, plain as day. A fucking idiot can see that. That will only be a target of opportunity though. A case of "well we're here now, it would be idiotic to not harvest some of this oil"

But if you seriously believe Bush et al. invaded another country, sacrificing thousands of American and Iraqi lives just to get some oil then you're a head case man. Do you know how much fucking oil there is in the world? We're not running out anytime soon.

Damn! ... I was drunk yesterday. There is about 40- 50 years worth oil left on this planet ... that is it, no more.

[The Chad Cometh]

Call me whatever the fuck you want mate ... couldn't give a rat's awse

What are you going on about by the way? 

[fuckin crazy]

One would have to be in the know, to be in the "know".

How is that for subterfuge?

Goddamn, I learn real well.