NFL 2007 Season - Discuss it all here

[JMack]

Yeah really.  I don't know about that one.  Hey maybe Rush Limbaugh shouldn't have been fired for his comments on McNabb?

[sandman]

his point is that he gets criticized more than white QBs.

it's a bullshit argument.

Peyton Manning got criticized quite a bit and he's arguably the best QB ever. People loved to rip him to shreads (myself included) for many things, primarily not being able to win the big game.

[faldor]

I think McNabb needs some receivers.  Curtis and Reggie Brown are decent WR's, but nothing spectacular.  He really hasn't ever had great weapons except for the year he and TO took the Eagles to the Super Bowl.  A little last season with Stallworth.  Not much else though.

[sandman]

I think McNabb needs some receivers.? Curtis and Reggie Brown are decent WR's, but nothing spectacular.? He really hasn't ever had great weapons except for the year he and TO took the Eagles to the Super Bowl.? A little last season with Stallworth.? Not much else though.

that's a fair point. they are average. i think the biggest thing we're missing right now is a WR that can get open deep. cause i can only think of one long ball we've completed in the first 2 games (a pass to curtis vs. GB). and when we have tried to go deep, the WRs haven't gotten any separation. 

but during the game last night in the 4th quarter, they showed highlights of 4 or 5 passes that mcnabb mis-fired on when he had open receivers. all were in the 7-10 yard range and would have likely produced first downs.

then near the end of the game, he missed a WIDE OPEN curtis on the 2-yard-line. curtis would have likely scored and we would have been going for 2 to tie the game.

[freedom78]

his point is that he gets criticized more than white QBs.

I think it may have more to do with the fact that he's had a good deal of success, but hasn't won it all, so we know he's capable of doing great things, but he hasn't come through.  And he WAS pretty bad, yesterday night.  But this isn't a black/white issue.  Hell, McNair won MVP one year, does McNabb not consider that evidence of public acceptance of successful black QBs?

[Drew]

0 & 2 for McNabb! 

I'm loving it! 

[Axl4Prez2004]

I'm a bit disappointed in Donovan, and I'm a huge fan of his btw.  While I agree with his point about black qb's being criticized more than white qb's, I don't think acknowledging this obvious fact in an interview was the best way to go.  It's jumped on by fans who are already upset with an 0-2 start and just gets them pissed.

That said, he is 9 months out from ACL surgery.  Anybody else had this done?  I have.  Yeah, I know, I didn't have professionals working on me every single day, but as good as they are at rehabilitation, an ACL only heals so fast (and that's very slow).  I didn't feel 100% until about 15 to 18 months out.  Like Culpepper before him, his biggest enemy isn't racists, it's opposing defenses knowing McNabb's legs aren't there and the threat of the run is gone.  (and yes, the receivers blow)

If anybody else watched the game, where was the Eagles d's pass rush?  Non-existent.  Campbell on several throws had all day.  It looked like the protection Tom Brady had against the Chargers on Sunday. 

McNabb was the 2nd best quarterback statistically before he got injured last season.  The defense was sucking which accounted for the 1-4 record before he was hurt, and when Garcia came in, he polished off the cream puff opponents and the Eagles defense got it together finally.

McNabb took the heat and morons started chanting for Garcia.  Now it's Feely or Kevin Kolb for Christ's sake!  McNabb is an excellent qb when healthy.  Unfortunately, he hasn't been consistently healthy...hell, it could be worse, look at Leftwich. 

 

 

[sandman]

I'm a bit disappointed in Donovan, and I'm a huge fan of his btw.? While I agree with his point about black qb's being criticized more than white qb's, I don't think acknowledging this obvious fact in an interview was the best way to go.? It's jumped on by fans who are already upset with an 0-2 start and just gets them pissed.

That said, he is 9 months out from ACL surgery.? Anybody else had this done?? I have.? Yeah, I know, I didn't have professionals working on me every single day, but as good as they are at rehabilitation, an ACL only heals so fast (and that's very slow).? I didn't feel 100% until about 15 to 18 months out.? Like Culpepper before him, his biggest enemy isn't racists, it's opposing defenses knowing McNabb's legs aren't there and the threat of the run is gone.? (and yes, the receivers blow)

If anybody else watched the game, where was the Eagles d's pass rush?? Non-existent.? Campbell on several throws had all day.? It looked like the protection Tom Brady had against the Chargers on Sunday.?

McNabb was the 2nd best quarterback statistically before he got injured last season.? The defense was sucking which accounted for the 1-4 record before he was hurt, and when Garcia came in, he polished off the cream puff opponents and the Eagles defense got it together finally.

McNabb took the heat and morons started chanting for Garcia.? Now it's Feely or Kevin Kolb for Christ's sake!? McNabb is an excellent qb when healthy.? Unfortunately, he hasn't been consistently healthy...hell, it could be worse, look at Leftwich.?

 

 

you're dead wrong.

please provide an ounce of evidence to support your racist statement. are you talking fans or media or both???

if media, name someone. if you're talking fans, you obviously are not familiar with players like Michael Jack Schmidt that got booed and were hated by fans. he's one of the greatest baseball players of all time, won a WS in philly, and the fans overall hated him.

and as far as mcnabb's play, you don't remember the games from last year. they were low scoring games and he played like shit. not the D's fault at all. the games were essentially identical to the first two games this year - inaccurate passing and no emotion.

mcnabb is 1-7 in his last 8 games, 9-13 since the SB.

[freedom78]

While I agree with his point about black qb's being criticized more than white qb's

I'm inclined to think that his playing in Philly might severely skew your sample. 

[Axl4Prez2004]

I'm a bit disappointed in Donovan, and I'm a huge fan of his btw.  While I agree with his point about black qb's being criticized more than white qb's, I don't think acknowledging this obvious fact in an interview was the best way to go.  It's jumped on by fans who are already upset with an 0-2 start and just gets them pissed.

That said, he is 9 months out from ACL surgery.  Anybody else had this done?  I have.  Yeah, I know, I didn't have professionals working on me every single day, but as good as they are at rehabilitation, an ACL only heals so fast (and that's very slow).  I didn't feel 100% until about 15 to 18 months out.  Like Culpepper before him, his biggest enemy isn't racists, it's opposing defenses knowing McNabb's legs aren't there and the threat of the run is gone.  (and yes, the receivers blow)

If anybody else watched the game, where was the Eagles d's pass rush?  Non-existent.  Campbell on several throws had all day.  It looked like the protection Tom Brady had against the Chargers on Sunday. 

McNabb was the 2nd best quarterback statistically before he got injured last season.  The defense was sucking which accounted for the 1-4 record before he was hurt, and when Garcia came in, he polished off the cream puff opponents and the Eagles defense got it together finally.

McNabb took the heat and morons started chanting for Garcia.  Now it's Feely or Kevin Kolb for Christ's sake!  McNabb is an excellent qb when healthy.  Unfortunately, he hasn't been consistently healthy...hell, it could be worse, look at Leftwich. 

 

 

you're dead wrong.

please provide an ounce of evidence to support your racist statement. are you talking fans or media or both???

if media, name someone. if you're talking fans, you obviously are not familiar with players like Michael Jack Schmidt that got booed and were hated by fans. he's one of the greatest baseball players of all time, won a WS in philly, and the fans overall hated him.

and as far as mcnabb's play, you don't remember the games from last year. they were low scoring games and he played like shit. not the D's fault at all. the games were essentially identical to the first two games this year - inaccurate passing and no emotion.

mcnabb is 1-7 in his last 8 games, 9-13 since the SB.

Sandman, I don't know where to begin, there's so much to work with here.

McNabb, in 2006, threw 18 touchdown passes, ran for 3 touchdowns, and only threw 6 interceptions.  He had a 95.5 qb rating.  2,650 or so yards through 9 1/2 games.  Those are incredible numbers.  The Eagles averaged 25 points per game with McNabb at the helm.

The Eagles had a 5-4 record with McNabb quarterbacking the team throughout the game.  They lost to Tennessee in Week 11 and McNabb sustained the injury in that 10th game.  Obviously  he didn't finish out that game.

They lost to the Saints in N'orleans by a last second field goal.  They lost to the Bucs on that ridiculous 62 or 63 yard field goal the week after that.  Then, a 13-6 loss to the Jaguars.  Breaking the 3 game slide, they crush the skins as he throws for 257 yards and 2 tds.  Then he gets hurt against the Titans.

What kind of receiving corps did he have for all those games?  Philly should be pretty fucking happy with Donovan's performance...are they?  Of course not!  Philly fans amaze me.  They'll turn on you in a heartbeat.  White, black, or purple, they don't care. 

Do you even know how hard it is for players to come back from acl surgery in 9 months??  Seriously?  Do you have a clue?  I don't want to be insulting but damn!  He's a gamer.  He wouldn't be out on that field if he wasn't a gamer.  "No emotion?"  This reminds me of one of those, "How does Axl feel" threads.  Donovan plays and always has played the game with an upbeat attitude. 

The local nbc10 had one of those ridiculous call-in polls after their last loss this season.  "Who should start at qb for the Eagles in Week 3?"  The geniuses up in Philly, 75% would rather start Feeley or Kolb.  Kolb actually got the highest % and he's a friggin 3rd string qb.  I just love that logic.  A guy who doesn't take snaps with the 1st team.   

Now, if you were saying I'm dead wrong about black qbs having it tougher when it comes to criticism...I will respectfully disagree with your opinion.  Doug Williams, Kordell Stewart...they've all been down this road and it's not an easy road to walk.  However, that said, I don't think it's a good idea to inject this kind of controversy into the equation at this time in a football season.  For that I am disappointed in Donovan making these statements at this time. 

All of that said, as a Vikings fan, I'd gladly take McNabb in exchange for a couple draft picks.  He'll be fully recovered from the knee surgery to start '08.   
 

[sandman]

I'm a bit disappointed in Donovan, and I'm a huge fan of his btw.? While I agree with his point about black qb's being criticized more than white qb's, I don't think acknowledging this obvious fact in an interview was the best way to go.? It's jumped on by fans who are already upset with an 0-2 start and just gets them pissed.

That said, he is 9 months out from ACL surgery.? Anybody else had this done?? I have.? Yeah, I know, I didn't have professionals working on me every single day, but as good as they are at rehabilitation, an ACL only heals so fast (and that's very slow).? I didn't feel 100% until about 15 to 18 months out.? Like Culpepper before him, his biggest enemy isn't racists, it's opposing defenses knowing McNabb's legs aren't there and the threat of the run is gone.? (and yes, the receivers blow)

If anybody else watched the game, where was the Eagles d's pass rush?? Non-existent.? Campbell on several throws had all day.? It looked like the protection Tom Brady had against the Chargers on Sunday.?

McNabb was the 2nd best quarterback statistically before he got injured last season.? The defense was sucking which accounted for the 1-4 record before he was hurt, and when Garcia came in, he polished off the cream puff opponents and the Eagles defense got it together finally.

McNabb took the heat and morons started chanting for Garcia.? Now it's Feely or Kevin Kolb for Christ's sake!? McNabb is an excellent qb when healthy.? Unfortunately, he hasn't been consistently healthy...hell, it could be worse, look at Leftwich.?

 

 

you're dead wrong.

please provide an ounce of evidence to support your racist statement. are you talking fans or media or both???

if media, name someone. if you're talking fans, you obviously are not familiar with players like Michael Jack Schmidt that got booed and were hated by fans. he's one of the greatest baseball players of all time, won a WS in philly, and the fans overall hated him.

and as far as mcnabb's play, you don't remember the games from last year. they were low scoring games and he played like shit. not the D's fault at all. the games were essentially identical to the first two games this year - inaccurate passing and no emotion.

mcnabb is 1-7 in his last 8 games, 9-13 since the SB.

Philly fans amaze me.? They'll turn on you in a heartbeat.? White, black, or purple, they don't care.?

you made my argument regarding race.

overall, the highest you can grade mcnabb in 2006 is a B. he started off great, then lost 2 games in which the D gave up very few points. 13-6 at home vs. the Jags. and 23-21 vs. TB when he threw 2 INTs that got returned for TDs.


McNABB CONTINUES TO FOCUS ON HBO COMMENTS

On the same day that Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb clumsily attempted to address his remarks from a controversial interview on HBO's Real Sports, McNabb has further tried to clarify his comments via a posting on his Yardbarker blog.

In an entry dated September 20 and pointed out to the media via a mass e-mail from his personal publicist Rich Burg (a former Eagles employee who left under bad circumstances), McNabb says that he has "no apologies" for what he said.  And then he proceeds to try to change what he said:  "Black quarterbacks have to deal with different things than white quarterbacks.  If you don't think that's true than you are na?ve.  Peyton, Tom and Carson to name a few, have never been asked what it's like to be a white quarterback.  They probably have not been told that they should have scrambled more.  I bet Fran Tarkenton, Steve Young, Jake Plummer, and Doug Flutie have never been told by a member of any racial consciousness organization that they don't play the quarterback position white enough."

Fine.  But, again, that's not what McNabb originally said.  He told HBO that Manning and Palmer don't get criticized as much as black quarterbacks are criticized.  Now, he's saying something completely different, ignoring his statement that white quarterbacks don't get criticized as much as blank quarterbacks -- possibly because he has realized that the media and fans are equal opportunity critics.

"I would love to live in a world where race is not an issue," McNabb added.  "But it is.  I did not ask HBO to interview me but I did consent.  I did not bring up the topic of race but I didn't back down from it either.  This interview was supposed to be about how my career has been surrounded by controversy and how my upbringing has shaped the way I have dealt with it.  Unfortunately, the interview itself has created yet another controversy."

Donovan, the interview created controversy not based on the questions asked, but based on the answers given.  You spoke recklessly, without considering all of the facts.  You've apparently since realized that you were wrong.  But instead of merely saying so, you're trying to change what you said into something that you didn't say.

It's old.  And we've lost interest.  As Tiki Barber recently said regarding Eli Manning (a white quarterback who has been criticized relentlessly), you're paid to play quarterback, not to talk.

 

[freedom78]

This is all really silly.  Donovan's being a baby.  I saw him over-lead an open man within arms reach of the end zone on Monday night.  It was a bad throw, and they lost because of it.  He is the leader of the offense, and the offense played badly.  Twelve points, no TDs...worthy of criticism. 

Peyton got slammed (not in Indy...we're nice, here) by the national media for years, because he is, statistically, probably the best QB ever, but hadn't won the big one...or even the slightly less big one that comes BEFORE the big one. 

Brady never got slammed, really, because he came out of nowhere to take over a starting job and win the Bowl.  Before we even knew much about him, he had killed off our reasons for criticism.

Palmer is very young, still, and on a ridiculously self-destructive team.  But I guarantee you that if they start making the playoffs with any regularity, and still fail to get it done, then he'll be criticized like Manning was.

The local nbc10 had one of those ridiculous call-in polls after their last loss this season.  "Who should start at qb for the Eagles in Week 3?"  The geniuses up in Philly, 75% would rather start Feeley or Kolb.  Kolb actually got the highest % and he's a friggin 3rd string qb.  I just love that logic.  A guy who doesn't take snaps with the 1st team.   

That's a call in poll.  The question implies a QB controversy, and the callers are self-selecting.  That's not reflective of what the whole of Philly thinks.  Those things are always skewed toward any bias in the question.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Sandman and Freedom, I agree with you guys.  On McNabb's 2006 though, I think a B+ to A- is more like it.  Tampa returns 2 ints for tds and they win on a 62 or 63 yeard fg...that's just crazy/odd.  95.5 passer rating, 21 tds and 6 ints.  5-5 record with the team averaging 25 points per game.

Was he stupid to make these comments in week 2 of an 0-2 season?  Hell yeah! 

Freedom, seriously though, I live in Delaware and we get the WIP radio station and NBC10 coverage, etc.  Trust me, if you don't think there's a qb controversy in Philly, you're incorrect.  Now, I hope it's based on less than stellar achievement on the field rather than race. 

Again, I don't think fans are upset because he's black.  It should all work out as Donovan gets healthy.  Unfortunately, even if he throws 18tds, runs for 3 more, and only throws 6 picks, and they win half their games, Philly fans will push for another qb. 

During the season, I'm a big fan of shut the he!! up and play football.  That's just me.  Again, that's where Donovan ticked me off.  He should only be concerned about one thing this week...the Lions.      

[freedom78]

Freedom, seriously though, I live in Delaware and we get the WIP radio station and NBC10 coverage, etc.  Trust me, if you don't think there's a qb controversy in Philly, you're incorrect.  Now, I hope it's based on less than stellar achievement on the field rather than race. 

Some people will ALWAYS want a QB change...especially in the "tough love" markets (NYC, Philly, Chicago...).  Hell, Grossman took his team to the Superbowl last year, and people were calling for his head the entire season.  And, obviously, he's a white guy. 

And I'm not sure that being asked questions with a racial component (note: not racist) is a big deal.  I can't conjecture how many questions were asked of Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith last season about being the first black head coaches in the Super Bowl, and they both handled it with class.  I guess my point is this:  if you had a bad game, and get criticized, don't make it a race issue.  Especially in Philly, where they'd boo their own mothers.  Didn't they boo Santa?    Or is that another city?

[Axl4Prez2004]

^ It was Philly.  So was the battery thrown at JD Drew.

I like your analogies, but to compare Grossman to McNabb in any way is a huge stretch.     Grossman had Rick Ankiel,Steve Sax/Chuck Knoblauch moments where he completely lost his ability to do his job.  McNabb's had sub-par games, but he's never looked as bad as Train-Rex.

[freedom78]

^ It was Philly.  So was the battery thrown at JD Drew.

I like your analogies, but to compare Grossman to McNabb in any way is a huge stretch.     Grossman had Rick Ankiel,Steve Sax/Chuck Knoblauch moments where he completely lost his ability to do his job.  McNabb's had sub-par games, but he's never looked as bad as Train-Rex.

I agree, but he did do his primary job, which was to win games. 

This all seems so unimportant, when there are real racial issues of consequence taking place in Jena, LA.  Someone should say "Donovan...you're distracting from the big picture!"

[Axl4Prez2004]

Yes.  Donovan really should just shut the hell up and play football.  Racism is there and we all know it.  Duh.  If he wants to do the right thing, he'll be an advocate in the off-season.  There are many ways he could become an activist voice for positive change.  Timing is everything.

[sandman]

vince young and jason campbell have stated they disagree with mcnabb.

again, mcnabb is 1-7 in his last 8 games; 9-13 since the SB in which he choked (literally).

68.8 rating. 54.4 completion percentage. 0-2.

i wouldn't call it a QB controversy just yet. there is a segment of idiot Eagles fans in Philadelphia. they do not represent the majority.

BUT, mcnabb is 30 and the eagles have his replacement. mcnabb cap hit is well over $10M, and i believe Kolb's is $1M. the eagles operating style is to get rid of players over 30 if they are not living up to their cap number. and there's a lot you could do with that extra $9M. not to mention mcnabb is extremely injury prone.

[Axl4Prez2004]

vince young and jason campbell have stated they disagree with mcnabb.

again, mcnabb is 1-7 in his last 8 games; 9-13 since the SB in which he choked (literally).

68.8 rating. 54.4 completion percentage. 0-2.

i wouldn't call it a QB controversy just yet. there is a segment of idiot Eagles fans in Philadelphia. they do not represent the majority.

BUT, mcnabb is 30 and the eagles have his replacement. mcnabb cap hit is well over $10M, and i believe Kolb's is $1M. the eagles operating style is to get rid of players over 30 if they are not living up to their cap number. and there's a lot you could do with that extra $9M. not to mention mcnabb is extremely injury prone.

Vince and Jason are youngsters...give 'em some time. 

68.8 passing rating.  I tell ya what Sandman, I'll bet you $20 he finishes the season with a higher passing rating.  Are you willing to take that bet?  The Eagles are 0-2 right now.  If Westbrook stays healthy, do you honestly believe the Eagles will finish sub-.500? 

You do realize he is 9 months out from acl surgery?  MVP form won't happen.   

Have patience.  The Eagles will be fine.  They'll be 2-2 going into the bye.  I'm seeing 9-7, and you are right, that's not good enough for Eagles fans...but, in the NFC that could land them a wildcard spot.  But, if westbrook or mcnabb get hurt, the eagles are d-o-n-e.

 

[gilee7]

Axl4Prez, it's good to see someone in this debate with an ounce of intelligence. Though you have to remember that the interview with HBO was conducted before the season even started; it's not like D-Mac went and made those statements after the Monday night loss.

I didn't see the HBO interview, but from what I understand, it was mostly about D-Mac's life and career. The black QB thing was just one question, and he gave his opinion on it. Whether people agree or disagree with what McNabb said (and nobody really knows what the hell they're talking about unless they're a black QB in the NFL), people should respect his opinion, especially for saying how he really felt, and not tip-toeing around the sensitive issue like many people would've done. I applaud Donovan for having balls. Who knows how Vince Young and Jason Campbell and other black QBs really feel. Maybe when they disagreed with Donovan they were being honest. Or maybe they were just too scared of causing controversy.