NFL 2007 Season - Discuss it all here

[Axl4Prez2004]

Randy got "banged up" in Oakland, and "ganged up" on in the press.  You can only run so many inside routes with quarterbacks that suck balls before you get your ass handed to you.  I disagree with your assertion that Randy Moss "quit on his team."

Now, before somebody gives me the same ol' "I play hard when I want to play hard," be forewarned that Randy's statement is just about as misunderstood as Axl's infamous December, '05 statement.  Moss said that after he was asked, "Do you play harder when Cris Carter is out there...", and of course Randy gave the right answer.  It doesn't matter who the hell is out there with him, he's gonna bust his ass...an like Tom Brady said, he's the smartest football player he's ever played with...at any position.   

Randy has proven why he's the best wide receiver in the game, sorry T.O. 
Marvin Harrison (Syracuse alum so I've gotta give him props) is up there amongst the greatest too.
If Randy can keep up the inspired play, he may yet overtake Jerry Rice as the greatest wide receiver ever, but it will take a few more seasons in my opinion.

[The Dog]

Would you say hes the best "all around" WR?  Hes not much of a blocker (though he did have some good ones in the past couple of games).  I love players that are good at every aspect of their position.  Heinz Ward comes to mind as a complete WR (but I don't think hes "the best" playing today).

its like Deion Sanders back in the day, great coverman, but he was a total puss at blocking/tackling.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Butters, true dat!  Yes, I love Randy, but no, he's not a great blocker.  That said, I still have him up there just below Jerry.

Everyone will have different criteria to judge.  The longevity of Jerry is jaw-dropping.  Heinz's blocking skills are amazing.  Cris Carter had some amazing hands.  T.O. gets off the line against any jam. 

an interesting fyi though, did u know that down in Dallas, in an interview with one of their cornerbacks, the cornerback said the toughest guy to cover on Dallas is...Terry Glenn.  The fact that "Terri" gets injured at the drop of a dime has obviously limited him in his career, but it's an interesting insight. 

Rice, Randy...the rest.  I think I've figured out why Randy is so respected here.  You've got to admit the guy is a bit like Axl.  He starts out red-hot, shatters records as a rookie, Axl does AFD, Lies, The Illusions, things are great...The Spaghetti Incident is the trade to Oakland...he sinks into the Black Hole...he's not seen or heard from by anybody as he holes up in California (Axl and Randy)...occasional touchdowns and plays here and there (kinda like the '01-'02 performances)...then they both head to the East Coast!  May 12, 2006 is like Randy's Game 1 with the Patriots against the Jets.  Axl blows the roof off of the Hammerstein and Randy blows by double coverage for his first td from Brady making it look like the Jets defenders are running in slo-mo!  Hmmm, unfortunately, the delay is blowing a hole in my comparison, but you get the idea.  Both are head-strong and the best in their respective jobs.  Both are incredible talents.   

[freedom78]

Rice, Randy...the rest. 

Moss's numbers are comparable with Harrison's.  They're within one TD of each other.  Moss now has the single season TD record.  Harrison has the single season reception record and is one half of the most prolific QB/receiver tandem ever. 

The idea that it's "Rice, Randy...the rest" is laughable.  It took a magical season from Moss and 12 missed games from Harrison for Moss to pull even in one category.  Harrison holds MANY more records than Moss.  And, much like Jerry, he can be clearly identified with one team.  Say what you will, but when you think of greats of the game, that counts for something.   

[The Dog]

Harrison has done it all and hes done it COMPLETELY quiet.  he doesn't talk up his own game and stays out of the spotlight.  hes also different from the Randys and TOs by not being in the spotlight for the wrong reasons...

helps to have peyton manning throwing to you though

i always thought andre rison was under rated, when you look at his numbers and then the teams he was on and who was throwing to him its remarkable he was able to score at all 

[freedom78]

helps to have peyton manning throwing to you though

It's so tough to really discern player abilities in a team sport.  There's no question that he's great and Manning's great.  But which one makes the other better?  It's impossible to know, though Manning had a good season while Harrison was out (4000/30+).  Of course, Reggie Wayne isn't really a #2 receiver...more a #1A. 

[Axl4Prez2004]

Sorry Freedom, I've hit a raw nerve with your Colts. ?

Seriously, Marvin has had the luxury of playing with one of the two greatest quarterbacks of our time for pretty much his whole career. ?In fact, he really didn't set the world on fire until that guy named Peyton arrived. ?Marvin is a class act and an easy unanimous Hall of Famer. ?Up until this season, Marvin has been steady-Eddy. ?I give him a lot of credit. ?I just happen to think Randy Moss is the more talented receiver. ?

Isn't it funny though, we're talking about the greatest receivers ever, and we've mentioned Rice, Moss, and Harrison. ?Rice had 2 Hall of Famers: ?Montana and Young. ?Harrison's had one HOFer: ?Manning. ?

Here's Randy Moss' heralded hurlers: ?an aged Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, Daunte Culpepper, Kerry Collins, Marques Tuiasosopo, Andrew Walter, Aaron Brooks...and now HOFer Tom Brady. ?Can you imagine Moss with a HOFer for his entire career??? ?I really suggest thinking about that. ?I believe the kids nowadays would text, "OMFG!" ?
 ?

[faldor]

Great point.  Culpepper looked like a sure fire hall of famer when he was throwing to Randy.  Once they parted ways I saw how tragically incorrect I was.  It is a scary thought to imagine the numbers Randy would have if he had Brady or Manning throwing to him for the bulk of his career.  Not to take anything away from Marvin Harrison, but let's see him spend a few seasons in Oakland with those guys throwing him the ball.

[Thorned Rose]

What's all this talk about Randy Moss?

Do the Vikings have a good passing game now? No. They don't have any depth at WR

Neither did Oakland.

Randy Moss IS the best WR in the game period.

I don't care who is throwing to him... he's a freak. he had 1 bad year in Oakland. Besides the dude has a gear in the fly route that not many can handle.

Brady, Johnson, Cunningham, McCown...

Doesn't matter, he's a freak.

[Axl4Prez2004]

The coolest part of watching Randy run is that his legs don't look like they're going very fast until you see the shorter guys trying to catch up and their legs are motoring faster, but since they're shorter they are actually losing ground...it's hilarious.  Case in point, Game 1, td 1 against the Jets.  Double coverage, he's effortlessly separating from the defenders.  It's just beautiful.

[D]

PLEASE Freedom

Marvin Harrison is nowhere near the skill of Randy moss.

Moss, Is bigger, faster, stronger, better hands, more dominant.



U let Moss play his entire career with Peyton Manning, and his numbers would be earth shattering.


Look at the QB's Moss had throwing to him in Oakland.

U take those 2 years in Oakland away and Harrison would be way behind.


Also think of this:

What Happened to Peyton Manning when Harrison went down in week 7?

NOTHING


What Happened to Daunte Culpepper when Randy Moss got traded?

Culpepper went from a top 3 QB to being complete fucking trash.


Moss is that good.


Also

Jerry Rice has better career numbers, but those are credited large in part to longetivity and playing with 2 hall of fame QB's.

Moss, in my opinion is the greatest WR in NFL history.

This isn't the greatest humanitarian award either. Its football and no WR has ever had the talent of Randy Moss. I don't think Tom Brady would lie. Hell he said himself sometimes he just throws it up for grabs and Randy is that damn good to just get it.

[freedom78]

Sorry Freedom, I've hit a raw nerve with your Colts.   

Seriously, Marvin has had the luxury of playing with one of the two greatest quarterbacks of our time for pretty much his whole career.  In fact, he really didn't set the world on fire until that guy named Peyton arrived.  Marvin is a class act and an easy unanimous Hall of Famer.  Up until this season, Marvin has been steady-Eddy.  I give him a lot of credit.  I just happen to think Randy Moss is the more talented receiver. 

Isn't it funny though, we're talking about the greatest receivers ever, and we've mentioned Rice, Moss, and Harrison.  Rice had 2 Hall of Famers:  Montana and Young.  Harrison's had one HOFer:  Manning. 

Here's Randy Moss' heralded hurlers:  an aged Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, Daunte Culpepper, Kerry Collins, Marques Tuiasosopo, Andrew Walter, Aaron Brooks...and now HOFer Tom Brady.  Can you imagine Moss with a HOFer for his entire career???  I really suggest thinking about that.  I believe the kids nowadays would text, "OMFG!"   

Ah...I see.  You're confusing "more talented" with "taller."  I'd be interested to see what % of his TDs have been "jump ball" type situations that have little to do with talent (as someone said, "he's a freak").  Back in Minnesota, that seemed to be the norm. 

Nope.  Sorry.  Give me the guys who just quietly light you up. 

What Happened to Peyton Manning when Harrison went down in week 7?

NOTHING

What Happened to Daunte Culpepper when Randy Moss got traded?

Culpepper went from a top 3 QB to being complete fucking trash.

You clearly haven't watched the Colts much this year.  They lost their eighth and ninth games as the offense struggled to get into a groove.

Did Culpepper have anyone else to throw to?  Carter had already moved on.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Sorry Freedom, I'm not buying it.  Matt Jones down in Jacksonville is 6' 6" tall.  Randy's what, 6' 4"?  Yes, he's a lanky 6' 4", but he's no Leonard Pope. 

We are both biased on this one.  I'm a Vikes and Moss fan.  You're a Colts and Harrison fan.  The good news?  They'll both be enshrined in Canton.   

What people are trying to explain (and I know you're smart enough to get it) is that if you put Randy on that Colts offense with Manning at the helm, he'd put up numbers Harrison couldn't touch.  Not even close.

btw, just because a receiver has a height advantage doesn't automatically guarantee he'll come down with the "jump-ball" scenario you threw out there.  His athleticism allowed him to accel in not only football, but basketball and baseball too.  Here's the other thing.  Take a guy like Steve Smith when he had his amazing year.  What is he, 5' 9"?  When a receiver is closer to the ground, he has a lower center of gravity and can make better cuts.  For a guy like Randy to be able to shake the corner is just amazing stuff.

I didn't even mention Randy's superiority when it comes to post-season performance.  Remember that playoff game against Dallas a long time ago?  OMG!  That wasn't human.  That was better.  That was Randy Moss.  Some broadcasters still give him shit.  (Madden and Michaels, I'm looking at you)  Randy's been a model citizen and he's mentioned in every other sentence by these broadcasters with loony-bird T.O.  (yes, TO's talented and another HOF wide receiver, but he is a bit nuts)   

I just hope Randy takes a little less $ to stay with the Patriots.  I'm enjoying the show.      

[freedom78]

What people are trying to explain (and I know you're smart enough to get it) is that if you put Randy on that Colts offense with Manning at the helm, he'd put up numbers Harrison couldn't touch.  Not even close.

I completely disagree.  They'd do exactly what they've done with Harrison, which is to allow him to be a defensive focal point and throw it to Wayne and Clark as much as to Moss. 

I didn't even mention Randy's superiority when it comes to post-season performance. 

I'm glad you brought this up.  As you know, in the Manning v. Brady debate, Pats fans have long cited one things "RINGS, RINGS, BRADY'S GOT MORE RINGS."  So, I'm assuming they're on my side in this Harrison v. Moss debate.  After all, I can't imagine them spicing their beans with hypocrisy.   

[freedom78]

On another topic...any early playoff picks?

Wildcard Round:

Washington @ Seattle
--- The 'Skins have been winning.  The Seahawks have gone .500 in their last four, and those are against pretty bad teams.

New York Giants @ Tampa Bay
--- Yeah, the Bucs have been mediocre of late...but that's because they've been calling it in for weeks now.  I smell a late game pick of Eli to seal the deal.

Jacksonville @ Pittsburgh
--- Jacksonville is the "sexy" playoff pick this year, but I see them play the Colts twice a year and know that they are a very undisciplined team. 

Tennessee @ San Diego 
--- The Titans just aren't there, yet, but I'm sure Jeff Fisher will have something up his sleeve to make it close.

[D]

Correct me if I am wrong

But for years, hasn't Harrison came up really small in big games?

Just gonna throw that out there.

U put him on another team without Manning and he is maybe a Joe Horn or Laverneus Coles.


Playoff picks


Washington *they are gonna face Jacksonville in the Super Bowl*

Ny Giants

San Diego
Jacksonville

[The Dog]

Seattle - I don't see the skins winning, Gibbs will fuck it up somehow.  Experience is key in the playoffs and the skins don't have it in my book, esp at QB

I'm with Freedom here, ELI will fuck it up and the Bucs will move on to the next round.  After being forced to watch the Giants all year I can honestly say I don't know how they got as many wins as they did - just a boring/shitty team.  Gonna go with experience again and say Holmgren will make the right moves and out coach the Giants.

as much as I HATE to admit it, the "stillers" are not going to win.  The Jags OWN us - we always seem to fall apart when they play us.  While Davenport is a decent back up, we'll miss Parker at RB.  Our secondary is a JOKE and the O Line is even more pathetic. Going to start giving the pens 100% of my attention

San Diego - LT is hot right now.  Titans barely made it in, just making the playoffs was an accomplishment for them, I'd be surprised if they won here.

[tim_m]

My picks are. There is no way i can pick the Giants after watching that debacle against the patriots. They are never gonna win shit with Eli until they can find a coachh to knock some common sense into him. So that he won't do bonehead things like use a shotgun formation with 4 minutes to go down by 10.

Seattle
Tampa Bay
Pittsburgh
San Diego

[Thorned Rose]

You guys must not watch much football...

As much as I like Moss, I must disagree with D.

Harrison is great, and blah blah, it really doesn't matter who is throwing to him as you stated. It is what it is.

Right now, Moss is better. As for a career in whole, Harrison has the better career.

As for my picks, which will be much more accurate...

AFC:
Pats vs. Colts (again, and it's not that hard to do the obvious)

NFC:
Cowboys vs. Packers (I'm a huge Cowboys fan, with the bye week, TO will be back, and they aren't 13-3 by accident lmao)

Cowboys vs. Colts (with the colts hurt badly they damn near beat the pats in the reg. season and they'll do it again this year)

Cowboys champs

i hate doing this, I am a fan, but they are really good... if the pats get passed the colts the pats will win it all...

[tim_m]

I agree if the pats make the super bowl no one is stopping them imo.