NFL 2007 Season - Discuss it all here

[Axl4Prez2004]

Freedom, loved the post.  It was well-written and hence, I thought it was an article. 

Yeah, the td against the Cowboys at the end wasn't necessary, I'll give ya that.  The whole "getcha popcorn ready" nonsense maybe had a little to do with that move.

Now, if they were truly looking to break Manning's record (which I don't think is an aim of such a great team, they are out there to win games) they would have thrown the ball a couple times to get that 21 point win over the 'boys.

Moss is a hall of famer.  Stallworth has amazing talent when he's played...he's just been injured so much he's never realized his full potential.  (plus may I mention, he's better than anybody Brady has had to throw to before this season))  Then Welker, from what I've seen, is there anybody else you'd want in the slot? (that's what she said)


On a completely unrelated, still NFL note, is anybody else like me and totally loving the Sunday Night in America 7:00 to 8:00 broadcast?  I usually catch the last 40 to 50 minutes of it due to the late game finishing a little after 7, but Costas, Collinsworth, Olbermann are all excellent.  Tiki and Jerome are forever disagreeing, but Collinsworth is skilled enough and comfortable enough under the lights to make those other guys shine.  Any thoughts?  I thought it had to be said.
Great broadcast.   

[faldor]

The Patriots did not, I repeat did not "run it up" on the Dolphins.? The Dolphins had come within 21, and with Maroney and Morris both banged up, guess what?? They threw the ball....'nuff said.

I would agree with that...but they DID run it up against Dallas.? In fact, I would say that nothing done in the first three quarters can constitute as "running up the score."? And I'm a believer that you have to keep playing, so I've nothing against running your offense and making them stop you.? You'll note that I didn't say anything about the way they beat Miami (except that with Maroney coming off an injury, it was no surprised that they passed a lot).? I suppose I shouldn't have said they did it "every" game, though I was citing a week old article in making that point.? But (against Dallas) taking it in for a TD, on a fourth down, with 23 seconds remaining, when you're up 14...that's textbook "running up the score."? 'Nuff said.

I agree with the writer that Brady will break the record, but I don't think it's because they are "classless."?

I'm gonna contend that the Pats DID NOT run up the score against the Cowboys.? After all it was the Cowboys who called timeout with 23 seconds left down 2 scores.? Obviously they thought they still had a shot to win the game.? So the Pats put them away for good by going ahead by 3 scores.? Crazy things happen in football.? Is it likely that the Cowboys would've scored twice in 23 seconds?? No, but they were willing to give it a shot.? Do you expect the Pats just to hand the ball over to them and say, let's see what you can do?? NO!? So again, the media types have led people to believe that they "ran up the score" against the Cowboys.? It's just not true.? Now that we have that settled.?

The Pats have played some BAD teams this year so far, some teams that weren't supposed to be bad but it's just worked out that way.? Washington has a pretty good D, we'll see what they do against them this weekend.? I expect more of the same.

[freedom78]

Freedom, loved the post.  It was well-written and hence, I thought it was an article. 

Thanks.

Yeah, the td against the Cowboys at the end wasn't necessary, I'll give ya that.  The whole "getcha popcorn ready" nonsense maybe had a little to do with that move.

Yeah, you could write a book about TO disrespecting his opponents...that goes without saying. 

On a completely unrelated, still NFL note, is anybody else like me and totally loving the Sunday Night in America 7:00 to 8:00 broadcast?  I usually catch the last 40 to 50 minutes of it due to the late game finishing a little after 7, but Costas, Collinsworth, Olbermann are all excellent.  Tiki and Jerome are forever disagreeing, but Collinsworth is skilled enough and comfortable enough under the lights to make those other guys shine.  Any thoughts?  I thought it had to be said.
Great broadcast.   

I haven't watched much of it, but I had a parallel point to make about last night's pre/post game ESPN coverage.  Didn't Steve Young seem so pissy about not wanting to talk Colts/Pats?  I mean, I understand his point, but it seemed to me that he really came off badly.

I'm gonna contend that the Pats DID NOT run up the score against the Cowboys.  After all it was the Cowboys who called timeout with 23 seconds left down 2 scores.  Obviously they thought they still had a shot to win the game.  So the Pats put them away for good by going ahead by 3 scores.  Crazy things happen in football.  Is it likely that the Cowboys would've scored twice in 23 seconds?  No, but they were willing to give it a shot.  Do you expect the Pats just to hand the ball over to them and say, let's see what you can do?  NO!  So again, the media types have led people to believe that they "ran up the score" against the Cowboys.  It's just not true.  Now that we have that settled. 

The Pats have played some BAD teams this year so far, some teams that weren't supposed to be bad but it's just worked out that way.  Washington has a pretty good D, we'll see what they do against them this weekend.  I expect more of the same.

Yes...which could have been done by kicking the field goal.  I have no problem with them wanting a three score advantage.  I have no problem if they had scored a TD on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd downs.  But in going for it on 4th down, and making the decision to NOT pursue a gimme field goal which would have given them that three score advantage, they were running up the score. 

That said, a lot of media types are already talking 16-0, which is kind of silly.  All it takes is a well timed pick or two, and they'll have an upset brewing.  If Washington doesn't create turnovers, I doubt they'll be competitive.

[faldor]

I see NO difference in kicking a field goal to go up 17 or running in a 1 yard TD, with a 4th string RB to go up 21.  If the Pats were in fact "running up the score" is it really better to kick a FG in that situation than to score a TD?  It's virtually the same thing, both put the game out of reach.  Bad things can potentially happen on both plays (bad snaps, blocked kick, stuffed for a loss, fumble).  Point is the Cowboys extended the game, the Pats put the exclamation point on it.  You can't blame them for that.

[freedom78]

I see NO difference in kicking a field goal to go up 17 or running in a 1 yard TD, with a 4th string RB to go up 21.  If the Pats were in fact "running up the score" is it really better to kick a FG in that situation than to score a TD?  It's virtually the same thing, both put the game out of reach.  Bad things can potentially happen on both plays (bad snaps, blocked kick, stuffed for a loss, fumble).  Point is the Cowboys extended the game, the Pats put the exclamation point on it.  You can't blame them for that.

I can and do.   

Every losing team wastes their timeouts as part of a futile effort to somehow pull off a miracle.  You act as if Dallas were to blame for doing the norm. 

[C0ma]

I can't believe that the Cowboys game keeps getting brought up... First of all not only did TO pull out his cute locker room note about the "other 81" but heading into that game the Head Coach opened his mouth about the prior 3 Super Bowls... So sorry if I don't feel bad that you couldn't stop their 4th string HB on 4th down (I still think the FG would have been worse becase there was a greater chance in my mind that it would be made than that TD with a 4th string HB).

[freedom78]

I can't believe that the Cowboys game keeps getting brought up... First of all not only did TO pull out his cute locker room note about the "other 81" but heading into that game the Head Coach opened his mouth about the prior 3 Super Bowls... So sorry if I don't feel bad that you couldn't stop their 4th string HB on 4th down (I still think the FG would have been worse becase there was a greater chance in my mind that it would be made than that TD with a 4th string HB).

I have no problem with anyone disrespecting TO...he certainly has it coming.  Unfortunately, he doesn't play on defense.

Of course, the real disrespect is now for Carolina and Washington...two 4-2 teams getting no credit, as the media skips week 8 to focus on a potential week 9 matchup of undefeated teams.

[faldor]

I see NO difference in kicking a field goal to go up 17 or running in a 1 yard TD, with a 4th string RB to go up 21.? If the Pats were in fact "running up the score" is it really better to kick a FG in that situation than to score a TD?? It's virtually the same thing, both put the game out of reach.? Bad things can potentially happen on both plays (bad snaps, blocked kick, stuffed for a loss, fumble).? Point is the Cowboys extended the game, the Pats put the exclamation point on it.? You can't blame them for that.

I can and do.? ?

Every losing team wastes their timeouts as part of a futile effort to somehow pull off a miracle.? You act as if Dallas were to blame for doing the norm.?

You're missing my point.  Dallas called a timeout, forcing New England to run another play.  If they downed the ball they would've turned the ball over.  So they HAD to attempt to score.  What's the difference if they put up 7 or 3?  4 extra points is running the score up?  They ran the ball with their 4th string rookie running back from Navy.  I could see your point if Brady threw a fade pattern to Moss or they tried to jam it in with Morris, but seriously what else were they to do.  Like people wouldn't have said they were running up the score if they went for the field goal?  That 4 points pushed it over the edge I guess.  And like C0ma said, at least by running the ball you give the defense a CHANCE at stopping them.  It's doubtful they were gonna miss an 18 yard field goal.

Look, are the Pats scoring at will and trying to prove a point to the league?  YES!  They feel disrespected by so many NFL players and media types questioning their past success.  They're taking no prisoners right now.  But let's face it, this is by far the most talented team they've ever had.  When they won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years they won each game by 3 points and rarely blew teams out because they weren't THAT much better than the other teams.  Right now they are THAT much better than the teams they've played so far.  I just don't think you can point to the Cowboys game or the Dolphins game and say that they were running up the score.  Who's to say how many points is enough.  If the Cowboys are still playing the game, then the Pats must continue to play as well.  I guess they could've hiked the ball and had the QB scramble around and run back towards the other endzone to try and waist 23 seconds.  But aside from that ridiculous scenario they were gonna come away with some points. 

[sandman]

it's blatantly obvious the pats are running up the score. they're not trying to hide it. they are trying to make a statement.

but who cares? this is professional football. these players are paid to be able to handle this shit. it's not little league.

[faldor]

it's blatantly obvious the pats are running up the score. they're not trying to hide it. they are trying to make a statement.

but who cares? this is professional football. these players are paid to be able to handle this shit. it's not little league.

Amen, I'll agree with that.  It's apparent that the Pats are coming out with a purpose scoring early and often.  They're not too concerned with controlling time of possession, they just wanna pile up the points.  I think once the weather gets a little colder they may have to change the gameplan a little bit, but until then they're gonna stick with what's been working. 

Let's look at the Colts for a second while we're on this subject.  I realize they had one of the most accurate regular season kickers in Mike Vanderjagt before they took Vinatieri away from the Pats, but it seems to me that they took more chances then.  Probably because their defense was pretty bad too.  But now that their defense is good and they've got THE BEST KICKER EVER, they settle for field goals a lot more often.  No disrespect to Steven Gostkowski but he's no Vinatieri.  Both this year AND last year the Pats went for the TD over the FG far more because #4 was no longer on the sideline.  I hope that makes sense, I realize ALL teams would rather score 7 than 3, but if you have a sure 3 points you might be better off taking that than trying to go for a homerun and possibly turn the ball over.

[freedom78]

Thought this was interesting...even more so in that it's happening  for all three QBs in a two week span.  I really hope Manning and Favre are successful. 
*****************************************************************************

Manning, Brady, Favre have shot to become 1st QBs to beat 31 NFL teams

INDIANAPOLIS -- Peyton Manning and Tom Brady have been rivals on the field for years.

Now the two Super Bowl MVPs could be taking their competition into the NFL record book.

 A week before the Colts and Patriots face each other in that highly anticipated showdown, Manning and Brady have a chance to set up the perfect matchup with an almost perfect scenario this weekend: If each wins, and keeps his respective team unbeaten, the NFL says they will become the first quarterbacks in league history to defeat 31 teams.

"I think it's better for a quarterback to do it than a coach," said Tony Dungy, the league's first coach to beat all 32 teams. "You only play those NFC teams once every four years, so that's tough to do."

It's so difficult that even the NFL's record-setting ironman, Brett Favre, has yet to achieve the milestone. Aside from his own Packers, Favre has never beaten Kansas City, Green Bay's opponent next week.

Some might even joke that Manning, Brady and Favre will have beaten all 32 teams, since each could be accused of beating their own occasionally with mistakes.

The greater challenge is simply getting enough chances at each opponent.

Brady, for instance, has faced Washington, this week's opponent, only once in 7? seasons. He threw three interceptions in a 16-13 loss in September 2003.

"Personally, I don't look at it like that. I think this team faces challenges each and every week," Brady said. "It'd be great to put our best game out there against Washington this week."

Manning, who has been in the league two years longer than Brady, has faced Carolina twice. The two-time league MVP lost 27-19 as a rookie, and again 23-20 in overtime four years ago at the RCA Dome.

Manning will be making the first trip of his 10-year career to Carolina, and have a chance to accomplish the feat first because the Colts game starts three hours earlier than the Patriots game.

"I hadn't really thought a whole lot about that," Manning said of the milestone. "We certainly want to get a win because it's like they said in 'Bull Durham,' it's better than losing."

The statistic can be a bit misleading since many ex-quarterbacks played in a league with fewer teams. The NFL expanded to 30 when Carolina and Jacksonville were added in 1995, went to 31 with the new Cleveland Browns in 1999 and eventually to 32 with Houston in 2002.

Scheduling changes also have made it more difficult. Before 2002, teams played one division from the opposite conference every three years; now it's every four years.

So if Manning or Brady fail Sunday, they won't get another shot at Carolina or Washington until they're in their mid-30s. At age 38, Favre may not get another chance at the Chiefs.

Yet Manning, Brady and Favre have survived in this fickle environment where quarterbacks are constantly scrutinized and sometimes replaced because of injuries or slumps. Favre has started an NFL-record 243 consecutive regular-season games, while Manning is second at 150 and Brady's streak is at 101. Those are the three longest active marks in the league.

What the trio has done best, though, is perform consistently well long enough to give themselves a chance to beat every team in the league except one -- the one they play for.

"He's going to have a tough time beating the Colts," Dungy said of Manning, who signed a seven-year, $98 million contract in March 2004.

Of course, milestones and records are about as much an issue to Brady and Manning as next week's game. They couldn't care less about the buildup.

But they wouldn't mind making a little history first.

"I think Marvin [Harrison] and I are the only two guys left from that [Carolina] game in '98," Manning said. "Coach [John] Fox always has that team ready and it's going to be a tough place to play. That's what we're focused on, Carolina, this week."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3078473

[freedom78]

What a shock.  The Pats ran up the score again, going for a 4th and 1, in the 4th quarter, in a complete blowout of a game.  I wonder what a classy coach like Gibbs did to deserve that... 

Oh, nothing? 

Belicheat is a horrible cunt of a man.  He proves it week after week.  Eventually an opposing player will get tired enough of this unsportsmanlike bullshit and take a cheapshot.  It will be well deserved.   

[The Dog]

Steelers rule.  looking forward to their game vs. the Pats.  not that they'll win, but be interesting to see how close they can keep the score.

[faldor]

What a shock.? The Pats ran up the score again, going for a 4th and 1, in the 4th quarter, in a complete blowout of a game.? I wonder what a classy coach like Gibbs did to deserve that...?

Oh, nothing??

Belicheat is a horrible cunt of a man.? He proves it week after week.? Eventually an opposing player will get tired enough of this unsportsmanlike bullshit and take a cheapshot.? It will be well deserved.? ?

Somebody's jealous.

[freedom78]

What a shock.  The Pats ran up the score again, going for a 4th and 1, in the 4th quarter, in a complete blowout of a game.  I wonder what a classy coach like Gibbs did to deserve that... 

Oh, nothing? 

Belicheat is a horrible cunt of a man.  He proves it week after week.  Eventually an opposing player will get tired enough of this unsportsmanlike bullshit and take a cheapshot.  It will be well deserved.   

Somebody's jealous.

Jealous of what, exactly?

[Shoco]

What a shock.  The Pats ran up the score again, going for a 4th and 1, in the 4th quarter, in a complete blowout of a game.  I wonder what a classy coach like Gibbs did to deserve that... 

Oh, nothing? 

Belicheat is a horrible cunt of a man.  He proves it week after week.  Eventually an opposing player will get tired enough of this unsportsmanlike bullshit and take a cheapshot.  It will be well deserved.   

Somebody's jealous.

ha yeah for sure

[Axl4Prez2004]

Yo Freedom, I can see where you're coming from, but remember, if the Pats don't run up the score, they could fall to #2 in the AP poll or BCS!   

Seriously, love 'em or hate 'em, it makes for great theater.  Obviously they feel slighted with all the talk early on about how their championships were phony.  I don't think anybody really believes the Pats didn't earn their rings, but Belichik is smart enough to realize that is a great motivating tool. 

Hate 'em for running up the score, but don't hate 'em for "trying to get Brady the td record," because that just isn't true.  I hope the 2 Brady rushing td's proved that at least.

That said, I'm a huge Randy Moss fan (yes I was wearing my Moss jersey last November when I met the one and only Jarmo along with lots of HTGTH'ers at the Meadowlands show) and so yes, I'll be pulling for the Patriots...and yes, I think they'll beat the Colts.

One last thing, I still think Gibbs needs to hang it up. 

[C0ma]

The NFL is a Professional League constituted of players who are paid to play football at a high level. When the #4 defense in the NFL can't stop the Patriots what are they supposed to do? Start kneeling in the 3rd Quarter?

Joe Gibbs don't like it??? Stop them.

There are people in the NFL with incentive ladden contracts. Randy Moss for example gets paid based on bonus'... should he have to give up on a paycheck after four quarters because no one can slow them down???

Maybe the competition commitee should look at instituting a mercy rule so the Patriots don't hurt anyone's feelings (I hope they make that change prior to Sunday, I don't want to see the "Payton Face" when the Pats are still throwing up 30+). OR maybe they can make it that you have to sit your QB after so many TD's. Is this Little League or Pop Warner???

[freedom78]

The NFL is a Professional League constituted of players who are paid to play football at a high level. When the #4 defense in the NFL can't stop the Patriots what are they supposed to do? Start kneeling in the 3rd Quarter?

Joe Gibbs don't like it??? Stop them.

There are people in the NFL with incentive ladden contracts. Randy Moss for example gets paid based on bonus'... should he have to give up on a paycheck after four quarters because no one can slow them down???

Maybe the competition commitee should look at instituting a mercy rule so the Patriots don't hurt anyone's feelings (I hope they make that change prior to Sunday, I don't want to see the "Payton Face" when the Pats are still throwing up 30+). OR maybe they can make it that you have to sit your QB after so many TD's. Is this Little League or Pop Warner???

It would be nice, just once, if one of you Belicheat apologists would actually read a post before responding. 

Did I say they should kneel in the 3rd? 

No. 

Did I say there should be a mercy rule? 

No. 

I said, in multiple posts, that going for it on fourth down, with the purpose of scoring a TD instead of kicking a gimme field goal, when you're ahead by two or three possessions (or 46, in the case of the 'Skins game), constitutes intentionally running up the score for the purpose of humiliating your opponent.  It's bad sportsmanship, without question.   

EDIT: Just to be very clear, I have no problem with the final score.  If the Pats end up with 50+, within the natural course of the game, then I've no beef with them.  If the 'Skins can't keep them from converting each and every third down, and it leads to TDs, then I've no problem whatsoever with that.  This isn't about the final score.  It's about the way they get there, week after week.   

[C0ma]

At least going for it on 4th and 1 gives the chance for a turnover on downs.

But just so I can understand, you would have no problem if they hadn't gone for the 4th down and kicked the field goal then finished the game 48-7 instead of 52-7? Makes no sense to me... points are points are points. Hell, they kicked each of their 8 scores they would still have won 24-7.