NFL 2007 Season - Discuss it all here

[gilee7]

I've been an Eagles fan since I was a little kid. My older brother pulled for the Eagles, and because I wanted to be like him, I also pulled for the Eagles.  Once I was old enough to actually understand football, I started watching every Eagles game I could. This was when I was in like, 4th or 5th grade, and the Eagles were absolutely horrible. They were 3-13 one year; 5-11 the next.

Then our Messiah arrived, wearing a number 5 jersey.

I've basically grown up with Donovan McNabb. The Eagles drafted him just as I was really getting into football. So, of course, McNabb is my favorite player (ever). I have his jerseys in my closet; posters of him on my wall; his bobblehead doll on my desk.

I don't see how any Philadelphia Eagles fan can diss on Donovan. He resurrected their franchise. He put the Eagles on his back and carried them uphill from the bottom of the league to the top. Every single year the Eagles are a Superbowl contender. He led us to four consecutive NFC championship games, and one of only two appearances in the Superbowl that the Eagles have ever had. Very few teams remain consistently good year after year. Nowadays, teams win the Superbowl, and don't even make the playoffs the following year. What the Eagles did with Donovan is incredibly impressive.

Donovan has done more with less than any other QB in the league, with maybe the exception of Tom Brady. Peyton Manning is considered the greatest QB in the game, but he has Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne to throw balls to. Carson Palmer has Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmanzadeh, and Chris Henry (who would probably be the Eagles number one reciever). Tom Brady never had very much at WR (Deion Branch is nothing special), but now that he has Randy Moss, Stallworth, and Welker at his disposal, he's putting up numbers like never before. McNabb has only had an elite WR one year, and that was the same year that the Eagles made the Superbowl and Donovan posted career numbers. That year he set a record as the only QB in history to throw for more than 30 TDs and have single-digit INTs. D-Mac would have stats that equal Peyton's if only Donovan would've had better receivers. I mean, he nearly took the Eagles to the Superbowl with freakin' James Thrash and Todd Pinkston as their starting receivers!! I don't even think Pinkston is in the league anymore; and James Thrash is like the 4th or 5th receiver on the Redskins' roster. Freddie Mitchell is no longer in the league, and he was the Eagles third WR back then. I honestly believe the Eagles would've made it to the Superbowl more than once if only McNabb would've had better WRs.

When I think of Donovan's career, it makes me sad, because I feel like so much as been wasted (much like the last ten years+ of Axl Rose's life). Donovan has had horrible luck with injuries, yet every year he battles back. It also seems like he's always in the media, caught in some kind of controversy, even when he hasn't done anything. Fans booed him when the Eagles selected him as the second pick in the draft, because they wanted Ricky Williams (I wish the media would put this to rest, though, because I don't think there's any sane Eagles fan in the universe who still wishes the Eagles had selected Williams over McNabb). There was the whole Rush Limbaugh thing, where he said that McNabb is overrated, and that the NFL only wants him to succeed because he's a black QB. Then the President of the NAACP attacked Donovan, claiming that McNabb was denying his roots by trying to be a pocket passer instead of a running QB. I don't even have to mention the Terrell Owens fiasco. There was a similar situation a couple years prior to that with Freddie Mitchell running his mouth. Last year, after Garcia led the Eagles to the playoffs, people started questioning Donovan and whether the Eagles should release him. I know there's been other incidents, as well, but I can't think of them at the moment.

It just seems like no matter what McNabb does, he can never catch a break. And all of it pisses me off because it's so incredibly unfair. The guy has a been such a great role model throughout his career, which is something extremely rare nowadays in sports. Even during the T.O. soap opera, Donovan would consistently take the high road, and would never get into a war or words. I feel like, now, Donovan is starting to be weighed down by all the crap that's been said about him for the past decade or so. And that really sucks.

When I heard that the Eagles selected Kolb with their first draft-pick this year, I felt very, very sad. I just knew that meant the Eagles were going to do something stupid, like trade Donovan unless he wins a Superbowl in the next couple years. Now it's starting to look like this could be McNabb's last year in an Eagles uniform, just because of all the hostility directed at him by the media and fans of the Eagles (which seems like blasphemy to me). Should the Eagles actually get rid of Donovan, there's a part of me that hopes Kevin Kolb ends up sucking big time, just so Eagles fan will realize how lucky we were to have had Donovan all these years. No matter what Donovan does on the field now, it doesn't appear he'll be retiring as an Eagle, which makes me almost want to cry. I had always hoped that Donovan would spend his entire career in Philadelphia.

As far as the Eagles being 0-2, I'm not too concerned about that. I mean, it sucks, but I'm not in panic mode yet. I will be if they lose this weekend, but I don't think they will. And I believe that Donovan and the Eagles offense will finally get on track against a Lions defense. For whatever reason, during the Andy Reid/Donovan McNabb era, the Eagles almost always seem to get off to a slow start. And even last year, when the Eagles originally came out on fire, but then hit a steak of bad luck and went to 5-6, they still rebounded to win the division, when everybody else had counted them out. People are forgetting that there are 17 weeks in a NFL season. This is just week 3.

The Eagles lost their first game because of special teams. Donovan McNabb isn't the guy who fumbled two punt returns, one that the Packers recovered for a TD, another that they turned into a game-winning field goal. And yes, Donovan was off on some of his throws Monday night. He should've hit Kevin Curtis in the corner of the endzone, but the ball sailed on him. However, on the 4th-down play, Donovan got the ball right into Kevin's chest . . . but Kevin couldn't hold onto the ball when he got hit. That would've been a first down, and the Eagles could've still gotten a TD and a 2-pt conversion and sent the game into OT, and could very possibly have pulled off the comeback.

The Eagles are definitely underperforming, but it isn't all Donovan's fault. Monday night, the defense gave up some big plays; and they never managed to put much pressure on Jason Campbell. Andy Reid also frustrates the heck out of me because he's so in love with the passing game. Westbrook was averaging over 5 yards a carry Monday night. They should've fed him the ball way more than they did, especially if McNabb was out of sync for most of the game.

I've heard people say before that the Eagles are a better team without McNabb, even though McNabb is one of the best QBs in the league. I believe there's some truth to that, but it's all on the coaches, not Donovan. The reason the Eagles rebounded last year wasn't because of Jeff Garcia, but because the Eagles started giving the ball to Westbrook a lot more. When Donovan is on the field, it seems like Andy Reid just wants to pass every play and he totally abandons the run, even when Westbook is one of the most dynamic players in the league, and is a threat to score a TD every time he touches the ball.

I also believe the Eagles made a huge mistake when releasing Trotter just before the season. The guy was one of the most intense players on the team, a locker-room leader, a motivator. Now the entire team seems to be lacking focus and desire. Even Westbrook questioned the team's intensity. Even if Trotter had lost a step or two, he more than made up for it with his great energy. He made the rest of the team better, and now he isn't even there.

This post was incredibly long. Nobody will probably ever even read it all. I don't care. I needed to rant. I've been listening to all these sports reporters diss on Donovan for the past few days, and I've been reading all the crap people have been posting on message boards, and I just needed to blow off some steam.

[Axl4Prez2004]

gilee7, great post.  I read the whole thing and every point is valid.  I did not realize the McNabb interview was from before the season.  I take back my criticism of Donovan.  I thought he was responsible for the inappropriate timing...but surprise surprise, the media just loves to stir the pot at the right time huh? 

The Vikings are my team, but since I live about 90 miles south of Philly, and I followed McNabb where I grew up in Syracuse, I follow the Eagles.  McNabb always was and always will be a class act. 

Jeremy Bloom had me worried in the pre-season.  He didn't show me anything.  I was disappointed when the Eagles didn't show any interest in Dante Hall (who was had for a 5th or 6th round draft pick) or Allan Rossum.  Heck, I think even the Saints unloaded a return man last season, I'm not sure.  Then, the Eagles lose in week 1 because of ridiculous special teams mistakes.  Guys were available and they didn't act. 

...and yes, the Trotter move was shocking.  I still think that move could have been handled better by the Eagles.

The Eagles will win against the Lions.  I guarantee it.  Enjoy the game!    

[freedom78]

I did not realize the McNabb interview was from before the season. 

Same goes for me.

[sandman]

gilee7 - first of all, i'm not gonna insult your intelligence because we disagree about a sports player. you feel the need to do that, and that's fine.

mcnabb is a very good QB. no one disputes that. but...

is he a good leader? whether you believe he is or not, you have to admit that even players have questioned his leadership ability over the years. and i won't even go into the TO situation which he let spiral out of control.

is he an accurate passer? no. that's been a problem during most of his career. and having average WRs was always part of the problem, but he has frequently been "off the mark" numerous times throughout his career.

these two points are pretty important factors to being a good QB, probably the two most important.

[Axl4Prez2004]

^  So, now he's a poor team leader? 

He only has the 13th best quarterback rating in the history of the NFL. 

He ranks ahead of:  Namath, Archie Manning, Bradshaw, Baugh, Jaworski, Theismann, Unitas, Simms, Elway, Tarkenton, Starr, Kelly, and Favre.

58.1% completion % for Donovan.  That's higher than Elway, Tarkenton, Esiason, Unitas, Simms, etc.  Marino's 59.4% isn't that far away.

Now, before you give me the whole T.O. crap about how Donovan needed TO to get to the Super Bowl, TO was injured and didn't play for what, 6 games leading up to the Super Bowl?  Donovan led the team to the Super Bowl that season.  Led...as in what a leader does.

He has 153 td passes to 73 ints.  He throws more than 2 tds for every int., and that doesn't even reflect what he gives you in elusiveness and an ability to scramble if needed.

Philly fans honestly don't know how good they've got it. 

Sandman, you say McNabb's a "very good qb."  Then you say he "probably" lacks the 2 most important traits of a good qb:  poor leadership and inaccurate passing.  Which is it? 

btw, there will be a ceremony this weekend honoring Donovan as the greatest qb in Eagles history.  Sandman, ya better not skip your high blood pressure medication tomorrow.   

[sandman]

^? So, now he's a poor team leader??

He only has the 13th best quarterback rating in the history of the NFL.?

He ranks ahead of:? Namath, Archie Manning, Bradshaw, Baugh, Jaworski, Theismann, Unitas, Simms, Elway, Tarkenton, Starr, Kelly, and Favre.

58.1% completion % for Donovan.? That's higher than Elway, Tarkenton, Esiason, Unitas, Simms, etc.? Marino's 59.4% isn't that far away.

Now, before you give me the whole T.O. crap about how Donovan needed TO to get to the Super Bowl, TO was injured and didn't play for what, 6 games leading up to the Super Bowl?? Donovan led the team to the Super Bowl that season.? Led...as in what a leader does.

He has 153 td passes to 73 ints.? He throws more than 2 tds for every int., and that doesn't even reflect what he gives you in elusiveness and an ability to scramble if needed.

Philly fans honestly don't know how good they've got it.?

Sandman, you say McNabb's a "very good qb."? Then you say he "probably" lacks the 2 most important traits of a good qb:? poor leadership and inaccurate passing.? Which is it??

btw, there will be a ceremony this weekend honoring Donovan as the greatest qb in Eagles history.? Sandman, ya better not skip your high blood pressure medication tomorrow.? ?

i should have been more specific. his accuracy is inconsistent and his leadership is average. these factors prevent him from being considered a great QB. you cannot put him in the same class as the great QBs, or any QB that won a SB.

he played phenominal yesterday. i was at the game and it was cool to see him celebrated at halftime, along with many other eagle greats.

if he had played anywhere close to that well during the first two games, we'd be 3-0.

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Brett Favre, breaking records, and winning games!

This is like the mid 90's all over again!

I totally did not expect my Pack to be unbeaten after 3 games this year.  Hope they continue doing well!

(Knock on wood)

[freedom78]

Brett Favre, breaking records, and winning games!

This is like the mid 90's all over again!

I totally did not expect my Pack to be unbeaten after 3 games this year.  Hope they continue doing well!

(Knock on wood)

Just in case McNabb reads this board and is still feeling sensitive: great game yesterday!  Now shut up.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Sandman, I watched the whole game and that must have been a blast to be at the game.  Congrats. 
Just remember, a lot of great quarterbacks never won a Super Bowl.  Dan Marino comes to mind. 
Now, on the season for the Eagles, I'm very concerned about what's going to happen when better defenses get physical with the receivers at the line of scrimmage.  That said, I still think they'll win to go 2-2 going into the bye week.     

Favre is just a freak of nature.  I'm a Vikings fan for god's sake and I respect the hell out of that Packer. 

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Did anyone here think the Saints would be winless after three games?

I didn't.

[tim_m]

Special conditions placed on Vick after positive marijuana test
Associated Press

RICHMOND, Va. -- Michael Vick is now likely one misstep from jail.

The disgraced Atlanta Falcons quarterback tested positive for marijuana earlier this month, a violation of the conditions of his release as he awaits sentencing in federal court on a dogfighting charge that already jeopardizes his freedom and career.

Now, he's incurred the ire of the judge who could sentence him to up to five years in prison in the dogfighting case. On the day of Vick's guilty plea, U.S. District Judge Henry Hudson warned that he wouldn't be amused by any additional trouble.

Hudson, who will sentence Vick on Dec. 10, on Wednesday ordered him confined to his Virginia home between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. with electronic monitoring. He also must submit to random drug testing.

If Vick fails another drug test, he likely will wind up like co-defendant Quanis Phillips -- incarcerated since his Aug. 17 plea hearing. Phillips failed a drug test when he had the electronic monitoring and random drug testing requirements.

Vick's positive urine sample was submitted Sept. 13, according to a document by a federal probation officer that was filed in U.S. District Court on Wednesday.

Because Vick violated the conditions of his release, Hudson could take that into consideration during sentencing, said Linda Malone, a criminal procedure expert and Marshall-Wythe Foundation professor of law at the College of William and Mary.

"Every judge considers pretty seriously if they feel that the defendant has flaunted the conditions for release," she said.

"It's certainly not a smart thing to do."

Especially not when his behavior is being watched so closely, not only by the court that allowed him to remain free, but by the public whose forgiveness he's seeking.

In Atlanta, Vick's one-time teammates tried to distance themselves from his latest troubles.

"That's the last thing I'm worried about," linebacker Keith Brooking said at the Falcons' suburban practice facility. "We're 0-3. We're trying to get a win."

Safety Lawyer Milloy agreed.

"I just want to play ball," he said. "I'm so tired of talking about everything else, stuff we can't control that has nothing to do with us."

The failed drug test is just the latest legal trouble for the 27-year-old Vick.

On Tuesday, Vick was indicted on state charges of beating or killing or causing dogs to fight other dogs and engaging in or promoting dogfighting. Each felony is punishable by up to five years in prison. His arraignment on that is set for Oct. 3.

The former Virginia Tech star was placed under pretrial release supervision by U.S. Magistrate Dennis Dohnal in July. The restrictions included refraining from use or unlawful possession of narcotic drugs or other controlled substances.

The random drug testing ordered Wednesday could include urine testing, the wearing of a sweat patch, a remote alcohol testing system or any form of prohibited substance screening or testing. Hudson's order also requires Vick to participate in inpatient or outpatient substance therapy and mental health counseling if the pretrial services officer or supervising officer deem it appropriate. Vick must pay for the treatment.

Vick's lead attorney, Billy Martin, also is representing Idaho Sen. Larry Craig, who pleaded guilty in an airport sex sting. During a press conference about Craig, Martin was asked to comment on Vick. He deflected the question, saying only, "I'm sure that in the future we'll have something to say regarding Mr. Vick, but not now."

In January, Vick was cleared by police of any wrongdoing after his water bottle was seized by security at Miami International Airport. Police said it smelled of marijuana and had a hidden compartment that contained a "small amount of dark particulate."

Lab tests found no evidence of drugs, and Vick explained that he used the secret compartment to carry jewelry.

The federal dogfighting case began in late April when authorities conducting a drug investigation of Vick's cousin raided the property Vick owns in Surry County and seized dozens of dogs, most of them pit bulls, and equipment associated with dogfighting.

Vick initially denied any knowledge of the enterprise, then pledged after he was charged that he would fight to clear his name. After Phillips and two other co-defendants pleaded guilty, Vick followed suit and admitted in a written plea to bankrolling the enterprise and helping to kill eight dogs that performed poorly.

Vick was the only defendant not placed on electronic monitoring at the arraignments because he was the only one with no criminal record, the U.S. Attorney's office said.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3037175

Looks like Vick is really giving that judge a good reason to give him the max sentence of 5 years.

[Drew]

I am so sick of hearing about Vick! I wish he would just go away and stay away for good! 

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

I am so sick of hearing about Vick! I wish he would just go away and stay away for good!?

I'm sure Goodell will take care of that. 

[Drew]

I am so sick of hearing about Vick! I wish he would just go away and stay away for good! 

I'm sure Goodell will take care of that. 

I hope so! And for good! 

[pasnow]

Vick just goes from bad to worse.


As for McNabb, as an Eagle fan who bleeds Eagle Green I can say he is a good QB. I'd even go so far as to say he can be a great QB, but he isn't an elite QB.    Not yet at least. Has he won one or more Super Bowls, no. Has he made the playoffs several times, yes. Can you name 6 proven  QB's you'd rather have over him?  I don't think so. Not me at least. The thing with McNabb is he plays his best when his backs up against the wall. 0-2, 1-3, down 13 in the 4th Quarter. Up until then he's throwing at peoples feet (he does this alot throughout his career), throwing picks and laughing it off as he walks off the field, etc etc. But is the the best QB Philly's had, probably. As for leadership? I dunno, he isn't tremendous at that. Players rally behind him, but IMHO Trotter & Dawkins have always been the leaders of this team the last several years. McNabb takes alot of heat from Philly fans, but not nearly as much as Randall  took here. Plus media was much smaller back then but Randall could have never survived in todays era here. The whole booing during the draft is wayy overblown. It's just a bunch of retard Philly fans who now refuse to admit it was them and that they were wrong (It was a group led by the sports radio morning talk show host). Let's look at the 1st round QB's in that draft:

Tim Couch - Out of the league
Akili Smith - Out of the league
McNabb - Decent career
Culpepper - Ok, career, still much rather have McNabb
Cade McNown - lasted about 2 years.


Our coach is in the same boat, I can't name many coaches who've been around since 99 (Dungy, Gruden, Shanahan, Belicheck) so he's doing something right. But he does alot of things stupid too. Like passing the ball 70% of the time. Last year he passed the ball something like 19 straight times in a game.  They weren't doing very good either (I think they lost to Jax that day). Also, draft a kick returner (Jeremy Bloom) have him run back EVERY kick & punt in the entire preseason, then cut him & have a WR run back punts for the first time on opening day. They fumbled 2 punts for GB scores & lost the game. But Andy must do alot of things right, we keep winning (most of the time).


So it's a give & take, but looking at other teams with annual QB controversies and bad coaches, I don't know if I'd like to see either of them go. If so, I think I'd miss them. They both did a great job during their tenure here. Regardless I think this will be McNabb's last year in Philly.

[Drew]

Congratulations to Brett Favre for being the NFL all-time touchdown passing leader now! 

[Layne Staley's Sunglasses]

Congratulations to Brett Favre for being the NFL all-time touchdown passing leader now!?

I think he might pull an Elway and win the big game in his last year!

(Knock on wood!)

[GNRreunioneventually]

Congratulations to Brett Favre for being the NFL all-time touchdown passing leader now!?

I think he might pull an Elway and win the big game in his last year!

(Knock on wood!)

i'm not a packers fan but i'll admit there kickin ass this year. I'm really pullin for'em

[Loaded NightraiN]

Congratulations to Brett Favre for being the NFL all-time touchdown passing leader now!?

I think he might pull an Elway and win the big game in his last year!

(Knock on wood!)

i'm not a packers fan but i'll admit there kickin ass this year. I'm really pullin for'em

Fuckin fudge Packers 

[Drew]

Congratulations to Brett Favre for being the NFL all-time touchdown passing leader now! 

I think he might pull an Elway and win the big game in his last year!

(Knock on wood!)

That would be great!! 


***BREAKING NEWS*** ***THIS JUST IN***

McNabb has been sacked again!!

I wonder how long before we start seeing the 'HONK...if you sacked McNabb' bumper stickers.