NFL 2007 Season - Discuss it all here

[sandman]

the Giants money line is VERY tempting at +$375.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Axl4Prez2004 is on a roll.  I found a sucker Giants fan (co-worker's husband) and I have a new bet to add to my other $20 bet on the Pats (-11).  This one is for $10.  Straight-up, no points, I've got the Patriots.  I felt so bad about it, I said I'd throw an extra $5 in there if the Giants indeed won.   

So:  if Pats win and cover, I've got $30.
       if Pats win and don't cover I've lost $10
      if Giants win, I've lost $35.

I think I'm in good shape.   

Who the HELL in their right mind would take the Giants with NO POINTS?  Apparently someone who doesn't know much about football and/or betting.

The answer to that one Faldor...he is a rabid Giants fan!!!  I kind of baited him into it.  I was talking big-time smack and I think while he was smacking back, he started to believe his own smack!  Great stuff.  $10.  It isn't the end of the world.  He said if he didn't bet it, his wife would spend it anyway!! 

Sandman, I'd stay away from that bet.  The Patriots are gonna win 34-17.   

[Axl4Prez2004]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Fitzgerald-says-he-would-play-for-Eagles-if-trad;_ylt=AivjFHzCqnKXjBUNcNmUDjRDubYF?urn=nfl,64569


If the Eagles landed Larry Fitzgerald...McNabb and Westbrook stay healthy...minor tweaks on defense...the Eagles could be a Super Bowl team.  I really should save this for the NFL 2008 Season thread. 

[freedom78]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Fitzgerald-says-he-would-play-for-Eagles-if-trad;_ylt=AivjFHzCqnKXjBUNcNmUDjRDubYF?urn=nfl,64569


If the Eagles landed Larry Fitzgerald...McNabb and Westbrook stay healthy...minor tweaks on defense...the Eagles could be a Super Bowl team.  I really should save this for the NFL 2008 Season thread. 

I was hoping we'd manage to turn Super Bowl week into a discussion about the Eagles. 

Seriously...I admire the Eagles love.  But the timing just makes it funny.

[The Dog]

Doodes, for reals.

Forget about the Eagles or the Giants or the Pats.

It's all about the LA Rams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix081prSiNc

[faldor]

Axl4Prez2004 is on a roll.  I found a sucker Giants fan (co-worker's husband) and I have a new bet to add to my other $20 bet on the Pats (-11).  This one is for $10.  Straight-up, no points, I've got the Patriots.  I felt so bad about it, I said I'd throw an extra $5 in there if the Giants indeed won.   

So:  if Pats win and cover, I've got $30.
       if Pats win and don't cover I've lost $10
      if Giants win, I've lost $35.

I think I'm in good shape.   

Who the HELL in their right mind would take the Giants with NO POINTS?  Apparently someone who doesn't know much about football and/or betting.

The answer to that one Faldor...he is a rabid Giants fan!!!  I kind of baited him into it.  I was talking big-time smack and I think while he was smacking back, he started to believe his own smack!  Great stuff.  $10.  It isn't the end of the world.  He said if he didn't bet it, his wife would spend it anyway!! 

Sandman, I'd stay away from that bet.  The Patriots are gonna win 34-17.   

I've got a friend who was predicting the Pats would go 19-0 this year.  He was saying it in the pre-season, on into the opening weeks of the year.  He went out to Denver to visit a friend out there at the end of the baseball season (went to the Rockies/D'backs game that sent the Rockies into the NLDS).  While out there he made a bet for $100 that the Pats would finish the year perfect.  I'm a big-time Pats fan, but I thought he was crazy.  I thought somewhere along the line they'd lose a game or two.  Well, it's not over yet, BUT I think at this point you'd have to re-evaluate that bet.  He should've gotten WAY BETTER odds.  A measley $100 doesn't seem like enough.  I could just imagine the payout if you made that bet in Vegas.  Then again, $100 is payable between friends.  Add any more zeros to that figure and you might never see that money.

[GeorgeSteele]

Doodes, for reals.

Forget about the Eagles or the Giants or the Pats.

It's all about the LA Rams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix081prSiNc

I'm still taking inventory of all the damage I suffered as a result of growing up in the 80s.  Watching football players dance and sing "ram it" while pumping their hips just couldn't have been healthy for a 10-year old.

[G2N2R]

Patriots will DESTROY the Giants.

Why?


Let me convince you naysayers..

First off, the Patriots core team is better, if you line up all 52 players you'd have to be crazy to pick the Giants.
Secondly, the Patriots had nothing, NOTHING, to gain from that last week of the regular season. They basically played to win the game, but they didn't show too much of any plays they were saving for the playoffs. BTW, smart on there part.

More importantly, do you honestly trust Eli to beat them? I mean c'mon, Peyton is so much better than his brother and Bill gives him more trouble then anyone, with two weeks to prepare for these Giants i'm sure the defense will have a few surprises for the Giants mediocre offense.


Bottom line.. Patriots win, 42-17

[faldor]

Patriots will DESTROY the Giants.

Why?


Let me convince you naysayers..

First off, the Patriots core team is better, if you line up all 52 players you'd have to be crazy to pick the Giants.
Secondly, the Patriots had nothing, NOTHING, to gain from that last week of the regular season. They basically played to win the game, but they didn't show too much of any plays they were saving for the playoffs. BTW, smart on there part.

More importantly, do you honestly trust Eli to beat them? I mean c'mon, Peyton is so much better than his brother and Bill gives him more trouble then anyone, with two weeks to prepare for these Giants i'm sure the defense will have a few surprises for the Giants mediocre offense.


Bottom line.. Patriots win, 42-17

I appreciate and share in your enthusiasm for the Patriots, but I don't know if I agree that they had nothing to play for in week 17.  I know what you're trying to say, but let me put it a different way.  That game was very important for BOTH teams.  The Giants were an inconsistent team up to that point.  They'd be great one week, awful the next.  They played fantastic in that game, despite many people thinking they should just rest their players for the playoffs.  I truly think their great play in that game helped them gain momentum and propel them to the Super Bowl.  So even though the game didn't mean anything towards the standings, it meant everything to the teams psyche.  As for the Pats, again the game meant nothing towards the standings but it was a chance for them to do something no team had done in the history of the NFL, finish the regular season 16-0.  They had a lot more pressure on them than the Giants did.  If the Giants lost, no big deal.  If the Pats lost, again it really wouldn't have been a huge deal in reality because they still would've been in great shape to accomplish the ultimate goal, winning the Super Bowl.  But, when you get that close to perfection you want to go through with it, so the pressure was there.  Now it comes down to one game, the pressure is equal for both teams.  There's no next week to look forward to, everything that's happened the previous 19/18 games can be thrown out the window.  And I love the people who say the Giants have nothing to lose this time around, that just getting to the Super Bowl is achievement enough.  That's a bunch of crap.  They have everything to lose, they have the Super Bowl to lose.  Teams that go into the biggest game of the year with "nothing to lose" usually end up losing.  If you're just happy to get there, why bother playing the game.  Not saying the Giants themselves feel this way, but I hear it from a lot of their fans.

[tim_m]

Patriots will DESTROY the Giants.

Why?


Let me convince you naysayers..

First off, the Patriots core team is better, if you line up all 52 players you'd have to be crazy to pick the Giants.
Secondly, the Patriots had nothing, NOTHING, to gain from that last week of the regular season. They basically played to win the game, but they didn't show too much of any plays they were saving for the playoffs. BTW, smart on there part.

More importantly, do you honestly trust Eli to beat them? I mean c'mon, Peyton is so much better than his brother and Bill gives him more trouble then anyone, with two weeks to prepare for these Giants i'm sure the defense will have a few surprises for the Giants mediocre offense.


Bottom line.. Patriots win, 42-17

I appreciate and share in your enthusiasm for the Patriots, but I don't know if I agree that they had nothing to play for in week 17.  I know what you're trying to say, but let me put it a different way.  That game was very important for BOTH teams.  The Giants were an inconsistent team up to that point.  They'd be great one week, awful the next.  They played fantastic in that game, despite many people thinking they should just rest their players for the playoffs.  I truly think their great play in that game helped them gain momentum and propel them to the Super Bowl.  So even though the game didn't mean anything towards the standings, it meant everything to the teams psyche.  As for the Pats, again the game meant nothing towards the standings but it was a chance for them to do something no team had done in the history of the NFL, finish the regular season 16-0.  They had a lot more pressure on them than the Giants did.  If the Giants lost, no big deal.  If the Pats lost, again it really wouldn't have been a huge deal in reality because they still would've been in great shape to accomplish the ultimate goal, winning the Super Bowl.  But, when you get that close to perfection you want to go through with it, so the pressure was there.  Now it comes down to one game, the pressure is equal for both teams.  There's no next week to look forward to, everything that's happened the previous 19/18 games can be thrown out the window.  And I love the people who say the Giants have nothing to lose this time around, that just getting to the Super Bowl is achievement enough.  That's a bunch of crap.  They have everything to lose, they have the Super Bowl to lose.  Teams that go into the biggest game of the year with "nothing to lose" usually end up losing.  If you're just happy to get there, why bother playing the game.  Not saying the Giants themselves feel this way, but I hear it from a lot of their fans.

I would sure hope the giants don't feel that way. If they do they are in trouble. I know Buress for sure doesn't feel like that with all he's been talking thsi week. 

[tim_m]

Former Patriots video assistant hints at team's spying history
By Mike Fish
ESPN.com
LAHAINA, Hawaii -- Matt Walsh worked seven years with the New England Patriots before being let go on Martin Luther King Day in 2003. He was on the New Orleans Superdome sidelines when the Pats kicked off their dominant run, upsetting the St. Louis Rams in the 2002 Super Bowl. He wasn't a chiseled athlete, but a go-getter who climbed his way up the team's support staff ladder -- first as a public relations intern, then as a video assistant and later, in his last year, a college scout.

Mostly, though, his years with New England were spent shooting football video.

He was the third, and last, employee on the video staff. In his words, he was Matt Estrella before Matt Estrella, a reference to the Patriots video assistant caught filming the Jets' defensive signals by league officials last September at halftime of a game against New York -- the violation that birthed "Spygate" and led, in part, to some of the heftiest penalties in league history. New England coach Bill Belichick was fined $500,000 -- the biggest fine ever for a coach  and the team was docked its first-round draft choice this year.

And now, Walsh, 31, an assistant golf pro on Maui, might be positioned to further pull back the curtain on the Patriots' taping history, expose where and how they gained advantages and, perhaps even, turn over video proof.

If Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., the top Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee, is serious about calling a hearing to delve into the issue -- particularly the questions of why the NFL hastily destroyed all evidence, including tapes handed over by the Patriots, and what other as-yet-undisclosed material might be out there -- perhaps one of his first calls should be to Walsh, who in conversations with ESPN.com suggested he has information that could be damaging to both the league and the Patriots.

In a New York Times story on Friday and again at a news conference later in the day, Specter expressed frustration with a lack of response from the NFL to his Nov. 15 letter inquiring about the league's investigation. He said NFL commissioner Roger Goodell would eventually be called before the committee to address, among other things, the destruction of the tapes. NFL officials and Patriots employees possibly could be brought before the committee to testify.

Walsh told ESPN.com that, in the wake of the cheating scandal that broke early in the season, he has never been contacted by NFL officials to inquire about his insight into the Patriots' illegal taping practices, which he says date back to his time with the franchise. Nor, he said, has there been any communication with the Patriots.

Matt Walsh might hold the key to 'Spygate,' but isn't unlocking any doors.
"If they're doing a thorough investigation -- they didn't contact me," Walsh told ESPN.com. "So draw your own conclusions. Maybe they felt they didn't need to. Maybe the league feels they got satisfactory answers from everything the Patriots sent them."

Goodell said at his annual address to the media at the Super Bowl on Friday that the tapes turned over by the Patriots date back only to 2006, well after Walsh had left the organization. Does Walsh know anything that might be of interest to that inquiry? He won't say, but he hasn't dodged the suggestion that he does. On a number of occasions in interviews with ESPN and ESPN.com in recent weeks, he has hinted about evidence and information he might be able to provide.

"No, the league has never called me," he said. "Neither have the Patriots. And really, I would be surprised if they did. Then all of a sudden -- I don't know how much the league or Patriots know about my stance or how I feel about things -- for them to put in a call to me, what are they going to say? Are they going to try and threaten me? Or say, don't talk about it? Then, they are putting themselves out there and looking bad as far as if I turn around and say, 'Hey, guess what, the league called me and said [we're] gonna take away your pension if you say anything about this.'"

Later, Walsh said his reference to a pension meant his 401k retirement plan.

Walsh suggested he could have blown the whistle long ago, if he'd been so inclined.

"If I had a reason to want to go public or tell a story, I could have done it before this even broke," he said. "I could have said everything rather than having [Eric] Mangini be the one to bring it out."

It is widely assumed that Mangini, the Jets head coach and former Patriots assistant under Belichick, was responsible for exposing the Patriots' spying tactics earlier this season. Several members of New England's staff came to the Jets with Mangini when he took the head job in New York, including assistant coaches Brian Daboll and Jay Mandoleso and video director Steve Scarnecchia, a former Patriot video assistant.

The Jets' staff, under orders from team management, refused comment for this story.

"Obviously, Mangini knew what was going on and it had been going on for a while," Walsh said. "They tried to catch them doing it last year and weren't able to. So they were just waiting for them to throw the camera up this year on the sideline. But afterwards, I get the impression the league said to them, 'Hey, kind of back down from this; let us take care of it,' because Mangini probably could have come out and said more, made more of a deal out of it if he wanted to."

Walsh said that when he worked with the Patriots, a very limited number of people within the organization were privy to details about the team's video practices, notably video director Jimmy Dee and Ernie Adams, Belichick's prep school friend and right-hand man.

Walsh said that during his tenure in New England, no taping was done without Dee's knowledge.

As for the prospect of Adams sharing insight into the suspicious practices, Walsh said: "You've got a better chance of him telling you who killed JFK than anything about New England. There are lots of stories there. He told me stories of things they used to do in Cleveland [where Adams assisted Belichick with the Browns]."

Walsh says he could have broken a story about spying by the Patriots before the Jets' Eric Mangini did.
Asked Friday at his Super Bowl news conference about the New York Times story that indicated Specter's interest and identified Walsh as a person who might have inside knowledge about the Patriots' operations, Belichick said, "It's a league matter. I don't know anything about it."

Despite suggestions that he could be a player in expanding the Spygate probe, Walsh repeatedly has refused to provide ESPN.com with any evidence of wrongdoing by the Patriots. He also has refused to confirm that he has tapes in his possession.

Walsh said he is fearful of possible legal action against him by either the league or Patriots if he details what he knows. He refused to provide evidence of potential wrongdoing unless ESPN agreed to pay his legal fees related to his involvement in the story, as well as an indemnification agreement that would cover any damages found against him in court. ESPN denied his requests.

[tim_m]

On Friday, Walsh told ESPN he is uncertain whether he would voluntarily meet with a Senate committee, if asked. Previously, however, he expressed a willingness to tell league officials what he knows if they should call.

"I wouldn't lie to them about anything, and especially because I don't know what they have," Walsh said. "I don't know what evidence they have. So there is no reason for me to lie to anybody, anyways. It is one thing for me to say, 'Hey, look, just not gonna talk about it.' It is not like a felony or crime or something where I got to go on a stand in court and swear on a Bible or something. It is the kind of thing where for me, personally, it could potentially do more harm to talk about it than not talk about it.

"But if the league contacted me and said, 'Did you do this? Did you do that? ?' Maybe they have evidence I did, so I am not going to say, 'No, I didn't.'"

Like others trying to break into the NFL, Walsh came to the Patriots fresh out of college with little experience and a world of ambition. He graduated from Springfield College, class of 1998, with a degree in sports management. He didn't play college football; and though he claims to have spent parts of two seasons on the golf team, the college's sports information office has no record of him in its files.

He began his time with the NFL by working on the Patriots' game-day press box staff during his college years. Those connections led Walsh to an internship in the franchise's public relations department during the first semester of his senior year at Springfield. In an effort to get ahead with the team, Walsh told ESPN.com, he offered to help out in the scouting department, which was then headed by Bobby Grier, after his day shift in PR ended.

Walsh found himself without a full-time job after graduation. He was working as a lifeguard on Cape Cod when the Patriots called just days before the start of camp and offered him a job as a video assistant, even though he had no expertise or training in that area.

In the winter of 2002-03, Walsh said he was fired by Patriots vice president for player personnel Scott Pioli, and then spent a year on the video staff of the Cologne Centurions in now-defunct NFL Europe. Walsh says he was frustrated with the monotony of the scouting job in New England -- he focused on the few football-playing colleges in western New York -- and that may have been a factor in his dismissal. He suggested it likely got back to the Patriots that he had made overtures about video jobs with other teams. He eventually landed a series of assistant golf pro jobs at private clubs in New England and Arizona.

He can be found these days on the staff at the Ka'anapali Golf Resort in Lahaina, Hawaii, a 36-hole layout that caters to tourists visiting the high-end hotels and resort condos that line the long stretch of beach overlooking the Pacific Ocean. As he spoke with ESPN.com on a recent morning, he strode around the course confidently, talking up guests between an occasional golf lesson.

Walsh described himself as a guy who makes friends easily, and who is adroit at working deals. When he worked video for the Patriots, he said, he often finagled a round of golf at top course in exchange for game tickets. After he left the Patriots, he hooked up with a high school friend who worked security for his favorite group, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and followed the band on tour over 27 stops, sharing drink and food backstage with band members by night, and playing golf by day.

His air of confidence, though, came and went as he chatted about whether he wants to involve himself in Spygate. He has a young wife who is a physical therapist, and an 8-month-old son. He has family back in New England who, he said, could be in harm's way if he damages the Patriots with any information he might disclose. Even in Hawaii, he remains a New England season-ticket holder. And he said he worries about how he might be perceived by future employers if he blows the whistle on the Patriots.

And he wondered aloud what might be in it for him if he does.

He said he fears the potential wrath of the Patriots, and their ability to tie him in up in court for an extended period of time. Although he stopped short of saying he has actual video evidence, he suggested he does; and so raised the possibility that it might be viewed as stolen property.

He mentioned a confidentiality agreement he signed with the club, though he's not sure how that might factor into what he has to say.

"So whether that still covers me talking about things that we did when I was there or not, I'm not completely sure," Walsh said. "But if it doesn't -- if the worst they do is get pissed off that I am coming out talking to national media about all these things that I know that they have done and what not, and they just decide to pull my season tickets -- well, OK. At the end of the day, what did I get out of it? I lost my season tickets."

At one point, when the discussion turned to potential evidence, he said, "I'd use it if they came after me. The last thing I need is for people to make a case against me."

During an afternoon tour of the golf course where he works, Walsh stopped and pointed out Black Rock, a cliff where a nightly ritual features a lone figure lifting a torch to salute the sky before plunging into the dark waters, home to the occasional small shark. He used that scene as an analogy to the risk he'd face coming forward with his story.

"That guy is taking a chance jumping into shark-infested waters," Walsh said, motioning toward the cliff. "There'd be nothing to come out of it for me. Be a helluva risk."

He said he does not feel an ethical urge to do what some might perceive as the right thing, to help set the record straight -- either by exposing the Patriots or by depicting them as simply doing what every other team does.

"I'll be honest with you: I can't really be guilted into anything," he said. "Maybe after this whole thing, you don't think I have a conscience because of the people I was exposed to and what they had me doing.

"Really, I just [have] no incentive to really talk to anybody, no reason to do it. For me, personally, I haven't really been able to see the gain in doing it."

But now the Senate Judiciary Committee knows about him. And perhaps the incentive will come in the form of a subpoena from Specter's committee.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3226465

[faldor]

Just in time for people to start accusing the Patriots of cheating and diminishing their accomplishments before the big game on Sunday.  The Pats love that stuff, rally the troops.  Giants are in serious trouble now.  52-3, final score.

[Sober_times]

Walsh seems like a guy that doesn't know shit and wants to talk shit about a former employer. It seems to me the guy got fired, holds a grudge, and now in the right time and the right moment he decides to talk about it but not really talk about it. 

It makes me wonder, if New England loses the AFC Championship do we hear about any of this??? I don't think so.

[freedom78]

Yeah, this guy is totally not credible.  He only worked in the Patriots video staff.  He certainly wouldn't know of any cheating done by videotaping.   

[faldor]

Yeah, this guy is totally not credible.  He only worked in the Patriots video staff.  He certainly wouldn't know of any cheating done by videotaping.   

He's totally not credible unless he "shows" the visual evidence he claims to have.  Anyone can "say" they know or saw some things.  That doesn't mean they're telling the truth.  And again, this argument is insanely stupid yet it won't die.  Tell me how this affects anything from this season?  They got caught in week 1 against a terrible team.  They've gone on to win every game since.  So you can't blame spygate on this year whatsoever.  And what's done is done in the past.  Teams are always looking to get a competitive edge, the Patriots have stretched the boundaries for sure.  It's debateable whether whatever they taped gave them any true advantages.  If you listen to Goodell's explanation, it doesn't seem so.  Anyhow, this senator from Pennsylvania is ridiculous.  He's a huge Eagles fan and somehow thinks if he can point out that the Patriots cheated in Super Bowl 39 that will somehow make things better for Eagles fans.  They're not gonna strip the Pats of that victory and hand the trophy over to the Eagles, sorry not gonna happen, so what's the point?  Move on with you life and worry about more important things.  Seriously, a senator, has to have more important topics to focus on then an NFL team misusing cameras.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Doodes, for reals.

Forget about the Eagles or the Giants or the Pats.

It's all about the LA Rams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix081prSiNc

  OH     MY     GOD!     That has to be the gayest (not that there's anything wrong with that) thing I've ever seen in my life!     At first I thought it was actors...then when I saw Jackie Slater I was like holy crap it's legit!  Then I saw Hall of Famer Eric Dickerson and I was floored!  How the hell did they convince these guys to go through with that crap!!!!!!!!!!!!  Classic stuff.  Great post!

Ram it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   

[freedom78]

Doodes, for reals.

Forget about the Eagles or the Giants or the Pats.

It's all about the LA Rams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix081prSiNc

  OH     MY     GOD!     That has to be the gayest (not that there's anything wrong with that) thing I've ever seen in my life!     At first I thought it was actors...then when I saw Jackie Slater I was like holy crap it's legit!  Then I saw Hall of Famer Eric Dickerson and I was floored!  How the hell did they convince these guys to go through with that crap!!!!!!!!!!!!  Classic stuff.  Great post!

Ram it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   

WTF, dude.  That was awesome!  I play it at all my parties, when it's time to let the ladies know that it's sexin' time! 

Yeah, this guy is totally not credible.  He only worked in the Patriots video staff.  He certainly wouldn't know of any cheating done by videotaping.   

He's totally not credible unless he "shows" the visual evidence he claims to have.  Anyone can "say" they know or saw some things.  That doesn't mean they're telling the truth.

I agree.  If I said I have proof, I would be lying.  Then again, I didn't ever work on the Pats video staff. 

[Sober_times]

I agree.  If I said I have proof, I would be lying.  Then again, I didn't ever work on the Pats video staff. 

He gives vauge responses to questions. He tells espn i'll tell you but you need to pay my legal fees. He says I kinda know this and that but I dont want to say because im afraid. The guy got fired in 03. He waits till the week of the superbowl to finally come out and say his shit. I mean come on. The guy is full of shit. To me, it looks like hes lookin to jab his former employer. 

[freedom78]

I agree.  If I said I have proof, I would be lying.  Then again, I didn't ever work on the Pats video staff. 

He gives vauge responses to questions. He tells espn i'll tell you but you need to pay my legal fees. He says I kinda know this and that but I dont want to say because im afraid. The guy got fired in 03. He waits till the week of the superbowl to finally come out and say his shit. I mean come on. The guy is full of shit. To me, it looks like hes lookin to jab his former employer. 

I can't speak to his character or sense of timing.  But he is in a far better position than most to shine light on this subject.  If he claims to have evidence, then he needs to produce it.  If he didn't have evidence, then he would still be an important "witness" (for lack of a better word).  I do agree that, now that he's made claims of evidence, any lack of such evidence would completely discredit him.