Chinese Democracy listing at BestBuy.com and other online stores

[destry rides again]

Stolat and Howard2K, Stop Now.

Don't quote my post, don't quote another of each others post. Just leave the fucking thread alone.

[RageNirvanaNIN]

It's only had one tentative release date.

Considering the tour just ended with no new dates scheduled and the fact that mixing was happening earlier in the year, I personally think we're closer than ever to its release.



I don't share the pessimistic views of some fans and I think the summer tour was just the beginning of something great.

I'm looking forward to seeing what the future brings.



/jarmo

Ok hypothetically here lets say the other fans are right CD doesn't come out in 08 , 09 , and its already 2010 with no evidence of anything , woudln't that piss you off?

[jarmo]

Ok hypothetically here lets say the other fans are right CD doesn't come out in 08 , 09 , and its already 2010 with no evidence of anything , woudln't that piss you off?

Why would that piss me off?

I wanna hear the album too. As soon as possible. But it doesn't piss me off in any way if I can't hear it now, next week, next month or next year.

I'm confident that it'll be out as soon as possible and that's always been good enough for me. Nothing to get pissed off about as far as I can see.



It just seems like a waste of time to get pissed off about something like that. I don't have any control over when it's gonna be released anyway.



I also rather have an album out when everybody is happy with it, rather than something that was just put out to get money from us. I value integrity in artists.

People who take chances, try new things, don't do what everybody else is doing because that's what you're supposed to etc. That's rock n' roll for me.




/jarmo

[Ali]

Ok hypothetically here lets say the other fans are right CD doesn't come out in 08 , 09 , and its already 2010 with no evidence of anything , woudln't that piss you off?

Why would that piss me off?

I wanna hear the album too. As soon as possible. But it doesn't piss me off in any way if I can't hear it now, next week, next month or next year.

I'm confident that it'll be out as soon as possible and that's always been good enough for me. Nothing to get pissed off about as far as I can see.



It just seems like a waste of time to get pissed off about something like that. I don't have any control over when it's gonna be released anyway.



I also rather have an album out when everybody is happy with it, rather than something that was just put out to get money from us. I value integrity in artists.

People who take chances, try new things, don't do what everybody else is doing because that's what you're supposed to etc. That's rock n' roll for me.




/jarmo

It's a complete waste of time to get pissed over something you have no control over.  Agreed.  Furthermore, do we even have the right to get pissed off?  After all, the music isn't ours to demand to be released is it?

Ali

[jarmo]

It's a complete waste of time to get pissed over something you have no control over.  Agreed.  Furthermore, do we even have the right to get pissed off?  After all, the music isn't ours to demand to be released is it?

Ali

Yeah.

I don't have that "they owe us" attitude. So I can't relate to that either.

I don't demand that artists deliver. If my favorite artists want to release music, movies or whatever and share their work with the world, great.




/jarmo

[RageNirvanaNIN]

It's a complete waste of time to get pissed over something you have no control over.  Agreed.  Furthermore, do we even have the right to get pissed off?  After all, the music isn't ours to demand to be released is it?

Ali

Yeah.

I don't have that "they owe us" attitude. So I can't relate to that either.

I don't demand that artists deliver. If my favorite artists want to release music, movies or whatever and share their work with the world, great.




/jarmo

But you would indeed be pissed off correct? Everyone has different breaking points , for you it might be a certain year or event ,for others another. Owe isn't the correct word , I just can't wrap my mind around the right word to use. But as an artist you should put out music for fans to enjoy , without your fans you are nothing. I just think if tomorrow Axl called it a day and said hey this isn't working I'm out no more GNR , then you would say they owe us.

[jarmo]

But you would indeed be pissed off correct?

No I wouldn't be pissed off. Stop trying to make it seem like I would.

Obviously I'm nothing like you.

But as an artist you should put out music for fans to enjoy , without your fans you are nothing.

Oh wow. Just wow...... 

You can be a fucking artists and record music for yourself to enjoy.

You really need to get over this whole idea.


Judging by your name, you must be pissed that Krist Novoselic isn't putting out a lot of music these days. He must really owe you. You bought Nirvana cds and he got money from that.....

It's really no wonder Kurt, and many others with him, couldn't deal with it all when people like you are saying he has to release material for the fans.



/jarmo

[Ali]

But you would indeed be pissed off correct?

No I wouldn't be pissed off. Stop trying to make it seem like I would.

Obviously I'm nothing like you.

But as an artist you should put out music for fans to enjoy , without your fans you are nothing.

Oh wow. Just wow......?

You can be a fucking artists and record music for yourself to enjoy.

You really need to get over this whole idea.


Judging by your name, you must be pissed that Krist Novoselic isn't putting out a lot of music these days. He must really owe you. You bought Nirvana cds and he got money from that.....

It's really no wonder Kurt, and many others with him, couldn't deal with it all when people like you are saying he has to release material for the fans.



/jarmo

That's where I have to say this:  Anyone that says or thinks that artists put music out for the fans is grossly mistaken.  Artists create music for the purpose of expressing a thought or feeling.  To say otherwise is flatly untrue, I feel.  That's why music should be written, for the purpose of expression.  If it is written for that reason, then it is genuine, and then the fans can have a genuine connection to the music itself.  It all starts with honesty:  with your feelings and thoughts so you can express them, and then with the artistic process.  Everything else will fall into place from that.

Ali

[RageNirvanaNIN]

if you think GNR would be ANYTHING without fans , then you are an idiot. Well you said first you'd be mad , so you have no breaking point at all if Axl never releases CD thats fine. Jesus Jarmo thats fucking stupid im sorry , but artists are NOTHING without their fans. If you are famous , its because of famous , you're money is because of fans, your lifestyle is because of your fans. Why does Krist owe me , he didn't get a new frontman , play nirvana songs and promise an album since 2002.

[jarmo]

Well you said first you'd be mad ,

Reading and understanding isn't your strong points?

I wanna hear the album too. As soon as possible. But it doesn't piss me off in any way if I can't hear it now, next week, next month or next year.

Jesus Jarmo thats fucking stupid im sorry , but artists are NOTHING without their fans. If you are famous , its because of famous , you're money is because of fans, your lifestyle is because of your fans. Why does Krist owe me , he didn't get a new frontman , play nirvana songs and promise an album since 2002.

Yes you didn't pay one goddamn cent for that album.

Artists are nothing without their fans? They're still artists.

It doesn't really matter if the artist has $10 in his/her pocket or $10 million on his/her bank account.

If you like the art that he/she shares with you, great.


You really need to get over this fucking owing thing soon. I know it's not easy for you to grasp because even basic comprehension seems to make no sense to you.




/jarmo

[Ali]

if you think GNR would be ANYTHING without fans , then you are an idiot. Well you said first you'd be mad , so you have no breaking point at all if Axl never releases CD thats fine. Jesus Jarmo thats fucking stupid im sorry , but artists are NOTHING without their fans. If you are famous , its because of famous , you're money is because of fans, your lifestyle is because of your fans. Why does Krist owe me , he didn't get a new frontman , play nirvana songs and promise an album since 2002.

Fans are what make the artists successful.  The music in and of itself is created without the fans and not because of them.  If you really want to be completely honest, fans and artists have a symbiotic relationship.  They give us great music that inspires us, gives us joy and fulfillment and live shows and DVDs that entertain us.  We the fans buy their records that enables them to play tours to larger and larger audiences that gets them more money.  That doesn't mean that we are entitled to new music from them.  The music is made for the purposes of expression, not for the fans.  Therefore we are not entitled to music from artists.

Ali

[jarmo]

Do you think he'll get that?


The same guy called me an idiot earlier and Jim Bob a dumb ass.   


I think he owes us. We want the time back that we spent typing replies. If we had known he wouldn't even understand them, maybe we could've spent the time on something else. 



/jarmo

[Ali]

Do you think he'll get that?


The same guy called me an idiot earlier and Jim Bob a dumb ass.? ?


I think he owes us. We want the time back that we spent typing replies. If we had known he wouldn't even understand them, maybe we could've spent the time on something else.?



/jarmo

I hear ya, Jarmo.

I just feel very strongly that there is a fundamental flaw in the thinking that the argument of "we are owed an album" is based on:  the music is made for any other reason than the reason of expression of a feeling or a thought.  I am astonished that anyone could not see that truth.  If the music were made for some other reason, it wouldn't have any depth or possibility of eliciting an emotional response from the listener.  You have to be pure and honest in your intention behind making a song, that intention being you have something to say, or else it will ring false and no one will connect with it on any kind of deep level.  If it rings false and no one connects with it, you the artist have lost the opportunity to get a sense of catharsis that comes with honest self-expression.  What is the sense in that?

Ali

[The Chad Cometh]

If you think Axl owes any of us anything, then you're a fucking idiot. Sorry but it's true.
None of us have ever said the band would be where they are today if they didn't have any fans. What's been said is that the band will put out this music when they are good and ready, and not try to pander to little whiny idiots like yourself who can't seem to come to terms with that fact.
When I first heard the album was coming out (I only heard about a year ago ... call me a n00b), I was hanging around the CD Rumour thread like a man posessed.
Now that I have gotten over my own initial hype, I am well prepared for the fact this album might be coming out in the next 4 months, years or decades. Either one of these eventualities I am fine with, even the dreaded "never". Saying I'm stupid for not getting pissed off sounds so fucking juvenile it's ridiculous. If CD never comes out I'll just be fucking happy with the new music we have seen.

Show me someone who thinks they are owed this album and I'll show you a fucking idiot.

[DarrenLeves]

I know it counts for jack shit but Play.com now has the listed date as Feburary 2008

[Dead N' Bloated]

I know it counts for jack shit but Play.com now has the listed date as Feburary 2008

Shit I totally forgot what this thread was for  . Most of it is bickering.


 

[BaDoBsEsSiOn418]

I always kinda compare it to Queensryche.? They started in the early 80's, but it wasn't until the very late 80's/early 90's that they became moderately popular band with Operation: Mindcrime and especially Empire, thanks to Silent Lucidity.? They were playing bigger crowds and their albums were selling very well.? But their next album and the one after that and so on were not made for mass appeal, so they became less and less popular, and started doing smaller and smaller shows, but none of that affected them.? It was never about doing what the public wanted.? They are artists, making what they consider art.? I respect that.?

So if Axl wants to make what he considers art, even if that means supposedly millions of dollars and a decade to work on, so be it.? Make your masterpiece, Mr. Rose.? ?

[faldor]

I always kinda compare it to Queensryche.? They started in the early 80's, but it wasn't until the very late 80's/early 90's that they became moderately popular band with Operation: Mindcrime and especially Empire, thanks to Silent Lucidity.? They were playing bigger crowds and their albums were selling very well.? But their next album and the one after that and so on were not made for mass appeal, so they became less and less popular, and started doing smaller and smaller shows, but none of that affected them.? It was never about doing what the public wanted.? They are artists, making what they consider art.? I respect that.?

So if Axl wants to make what he considers art, even if that means supposedly millions of dollars and a decade to work on, so be it.? Make your masterpiece, Mr. Rose.? ?

Exactly, I just watched the 2002 VMA performance again and in the short interview with Kurt Loder at the end he asks Axl if we'll be hearing Chinese Democracy soon and why it's taken so long.  Axl gave what I thought was a logical reply that some people can't seem to grasp.  He said that it would be coming out, but didn't know if soon was the word and the reason it's taken so long is because they had to rebuild something that became SO BIG and replace virtually EVERYONE in or associated with the band.  Axl realizes the legacy of GNR, and he just wants to uphold that and do it justice.  If that means getting everything absolutely perfect and it taking 10, 15, 20 years, so be it.  And that was in 2002, since then Buckethead and most recently Brain have left.  So in essence the current incarnation of Guns N' Roses has only been together for about a year and a half.  I know we've heard songs like "The Blues" and "Madagascar" for 6 years now and still have no official releases but you have to realize A LOT has happened within the band since 2001.  I know people just love to bitch and moan but seriously if the quality of your life has deteriorated because Chinese Democracy has not come out yet you best seek some help.  I would love to have it in my hands or have some concrete information on it but I'm willing to accept whatever we're dealt.  I love all the new stuff we've heard so far and love the fact that they seem to be having a blast touring the past year plus.  Hang in there guys.  Good things come to those who wait.

[neon2002]

I always kinda compare it to Queensryche.? They started in the early 80's, but it wasn't until the very late 80's/early 90's that they became moderately popular band with Operation: Mindcrime and especially Empire, thanks to Silent Lucidity.? They were playing bigger crowds and their albums were selling very well.? But their next album and the one after that and so on were not made for mass appeal, so they became less and less popular, and started doing smaller and smaller shows, but none of that affected them.? It was never about doing what the public wanted.? They are artists, making what they consider art.? I respect that.?

So if Axl wants to make what he considers art, even if that means supposedly millions of dollars and a decade to work on, so be it.? Make your masterpiece, Mr. Rose.? ?

Exactly, I just watched the 2002 VMA performance again and in the short interview with Kurt Loder at the end he asks Axl if we'll be hearing Chinese Democracy soon and why it's taken so long.? Axl gave what I thought was a logical reply that some people can't seem to grasp.? He said that it would be coming out, but didn't know if soon was the word and the reason it's taken so long is because they had to rebuild something that became SO BIG and replace virtually EVERYONE in or associated with the band.? Axl realizes the legacy of GNR, and he just wants to uphold that and do it justice.? If that means getting everything absolutely perfect and it taking 10, 15, 20 years, so be it.? And that was in 2002, since then Buckethead and most recently Brain have left.? So in essence the current incarnation of Guns N' Roses has only been together for about a year and a half.? I know we've heard songs like "The Blues" and "Madagascar" for 6 years now and still have no official releases but you have to realize A LOT has happened within the band since 2001.? I know people just love to bitch and moan but seriously if the quality of your life has deteriorated because Chinese Democracy has not come out yet you best seek some help.? I would love to have it in my hands or have some concrete information on it but I'm willing to accept whatever we're dealt.? I love all the new stuff we've heard so far and love the fact that they seem to be having a blast touring the past year plus.? Hang in there guys.? Good things come to those who wait.

And just how long should we wait?

[smeagol2124]

I think you are the only one that can answer the "How long should we wait?" question. 



I'll never understand some of these people...I;ve given up trying to use logic.  Some of you do understand the concept of art, no? 


Some artists have integrity, and some were hand-picked by people like Clive Davis in a feeble attempt to make money.  No integrity, no character, and no conscious.  It's real easy for me as an intellectual to be a fan of the artist with integrity, the ones who were whored out by a label....not really a fan of all that.