Gay or Straight?

[The Dog]

Missing my point. I didn't say that gay couples don't make good parents or that they couldn't adopt one or have one through a surrogate. My point was in opposition to the claim that sexual orientation is in one's genes and that it is decided by nature. The fact that some gay people say "I can't help being this way, I was born to be gay"  (Anne Heche comes to mind) is pure BS IMO. Being gay or not, is influenced by circumstance and somebody's personal choice.

Yeah the Anne Heche argument is a great one, seeing as the first recorded incidence of homosexuality was in Hollywood sometime in the 80s. There's absolutely no record of homosexuality in every culture throughout history.

Anyone here want to seriously claim that they chose to be straight?

excellent point.

As far as choosing to be gay or not, there are examples in the animal kingdom of homosexuality.  Ex, the gay penguins in the NYC zoo.  Its totally genetic.

[Mal Brossard]

the gay penguins in the NYC zoo

Did they get a little too close to Greenwich Village?

All kidding aside, I think it's genetic.  It's believed that somewhere between 5 and 20 percent of the world's population is gay.  Going on a typical Mendelian theory of heredity with only one variable (Tt crossed with Tt makes TT, Tt, Tt, and tt), if homosexuality is a recessive trait, then approximately 25% of the world would be gay.  Going on the Mendelian theory with two variables creating homosexuality, then it's only 6.25% gay.  But what I believe it to be is a system of co-dominance among multiple traits that would essentially create a "continuum of sexuality," the Kinsey scale essentially, where everyone is somewhere between 1 (exclusively straight) and 10 (exclusively gay) for example.

Going on a mendelian square of only two variables, here's how it would work out, approximately.

Exclusively straight: 6.25%
More straight than gay: 25%
Evenly bisexual: 37.5%
More gay than straight: 25%
Exclusively gay: 6.25%

Anyways, enough of my scientific explanations.  I think it's largely nature over nurture.  It seems a little high, but hey, who knows how many "straight" people are closeted gays either forced to cover up because of the stigma attached to homosexuality or forced to cover it up on moral/religious grounds (e.g., the militaristic father in the movie American Beauty)?  We don't know.

[Gunner80]

It's choice.

It's not a choice, you're either born a homosexual or you're not.

[GNRreunioneventually]

every time i see or hear about gays i think of that shirt that Bazz wore in the 80s "AIDS KILLS FAGGOTS DEAD" thats just funny to me. Sorry it just is. Like something you'd see on south park ya know?


i say turn or burn ........in hell.

But really i don't care. 

[SLCPUNK]

Ever seen anybody die of AIDS? I knew (give or take) about ten guys who died of it in the early 90's.

Ugly.

[GNRreunioneventually]

Ever seen anybody die of AIDS? I knew (give or take) about ten guys who died of it in the early 90's.

Ugly.

no doubt man ......no doubt its an ugly disease, but i just thought that shirt was kinda funny.

how'd they get it? dirty needels or sexual?

[SLCPUNK]

They were all gay men for the most part, one woman.

[norway]

there is something else that factors into who we are.

Soul?

[Axl4Prez2004]

Like most things in life it's a complex relationship between nature and nurture.  What's most important when it comes to this age-old debate is what we can gain from the discussion.  For the vast majority of moral conservatives who deny the nature component of the equation, I feel sorry for them.  Scientific study after scientific study prove there is a genetic component involved.  It's 2007 and the faith-based fear-mongerers are alive and strong.   

[CheapJon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpsRRJ2308o

i love that song

[the dirt]

Ever seen anybody die of AIDS? I knew (give or take) about ten guys who died of it in the early 90's.

Ugly.

That's quite a bit for the average person to see in a short time frame. Where were you hanging out?

[SLCPUNK]

Ever seen anybody die of AIDS? I knew (give or take) about ten guys who died of it in the early 90's.

Ugly.

That's quite a bit for the average person to see in a short time frame. Where were you hanging out?

South Tampa which has a high population of gay men. 

[GeraldFord]

Watching two women having sex makes me pop a major woody--does that mean I'm part gay? I'd love to be a woman so I could rub my face in the bare naked buttocks of another woman for 12 hours.

[Mal Brossard]

Watching two women having sex makes me pop a major woody--does that mean I'm part gay? I'd love to be a woman so I could rub my face in the bare naked buttocks of another woman for 12 hours.

Agreed.  Going on my theory, that would put a person somewhere in the "more straight than gay category," but more toward the straighter end of the continuum.  If that makes any sense.

[Surfrider]

Ever seen anybody die of AIDS? I knew (give or take) about ten guys who died of it in the early 90's.

Ugly.

That's quite a bit for the average person to see in a short time frame. Where were you hanging out?

South Tampa which has a high population of gay men.?

For someone with so many gay friends, I am rather surprised that you used the most offensive term for gays in one of your most recent posts.

Moore that is. Heston rules.

Heston is a fag.

[Jessica]

i am certain there is a proportion of homosexuals who are because of childhood emotionnal hurt and fearing the other sex or disliking the other sex.

I have enough examples in my personal life of people who like their own gender for emotionnal security and who have sex with their own gender rather than seeing a shrink to deal with why their mother was a controlling bitch or why their father was a sick bastard.

I also know paris has very well known streets where gay meet and if you look at them closely, half of them have wedding bands and you can hear some of them call their wifes from there telling them they have a meeting at 5 pm when they are really appointing a penis in a backroom.

Is this genetic ? not to me.

One of my best friends is gay and gay for everyone to see, never lied, never hurt never nothing but being attracted to men since childhood.

I do think REAL gays whatever the gender are pretty rare actually.

[Lolita]

 I have met/ heard about guys who had turned gay seemingly? because of abusive mothers... So, yeah, there may be an original trauma. But it could also be a total coincidence and we'd like to say it's someone else's? fault because we feel powerless when we face something/someone different. We'd like to explain but there may not be any explanation and we should accept things the way? they are.

[freedom78]

i'm straight,but i haven't anything against gay population,but i can not understand how can two biys can make love.

i think they have butt sex.

Tactful as always. 

Like most things in life it's a complex relationship between nature and nurture.  What's most important when it comes to this age-old debate is what we can gain from the discussion.  For the vast majority of moral conservatives who deny the nature component of the equation, I feel sorry for them.  Scientific study after scientific study prove there is a genetic component involved.  It's 2007 and the faith-based fear-mongerers are alive and strong.   

What are you, fuckin' loony?  Don't you know you have to choose a side? 

Seriously, though, it's both, to some extent.  Nature is the best explanation for those who truly are attracted to one gender more than the other, but I think environment is a better explanation for large scale societal shifts.  For example, the ancient Greeks were notoriously lascivious and seemed to be less concerned about gender than many other societies.  Of course, this could also act as evidence that many more of us than expected are bisexual, though we restrict our own behavior, consciously or not.   

[SLCPUNK]

For someone with so many gay friends, I am rather surprised that you used the most offensive term for gays in one of your most recent posts.

I didn't say I had a high amount of gay friends, but lived in an area that had plenty of gay men (although I do have a gay friend or two, most of us do, if we know it or not.) Most trendy areas have a high proportion of homosexuals-and during that time I lived in a trendy area as many young people do.

Heston is a fag, and I don't feel bad saying that because he's an asshole, not a homosexual. Of course you missed my obvious sarcasm, since Heston is a chest beating, gun waiving moron, calling him a "fag" is the ultimate insult and polar opposite of who he is and what he stands for. Anybody with a brain could see he clearly isn't gay, nor was it meant as a slam against gays.

You can also be rest assured, if I did call Heston a fag in front any of my gay friends they'd laugh their ass off.

[SLCPUNK]

i am certain there is a proportion of homosexuals who are because of childhood emotionnal hurt and fearing the other sex or disliking the other sex.

I have enough examples in my personal life of people who like their own gender for emotionnal security and who have sex with their own gender rather than seeing a shrink to deal with why their mother was a controlling bitch or why their father was a sick bastard.

I also know paris has very well known streets where gay meet and if you look at them closely, half of them have wedding bands and you can hear some of them call their wifes from there telling them they have a meeting at 5 pm when they are really appointing a penis in a backroom.

Is this genetic ? not to me.

One of my best friends is gay and gay for everyone to see, never lied, never hurt never nothing but being attracted to men since childhood.

I do think REAL gays whatever the gender are pretty rare actually.

Science disagrees with you.