VR cancel last 7 European dates

[Intercourse]

Grow the fuck up.

Into your version of a 'grown up' ?? - no thanks.

If you hate the rules here so much then why not just fucking leave? ?

Because it's too much fun watching you peddle your house of cards of an opinion to other music fans and getting soundly put in your place while you do it.

Theres lots of boards out there that allow you to bash the current form of guns. I'm you can find them, go there and the adults alone.

All you anti-VR types carry the same cross when it comes to your position on GNR. You obsess over the critisims levelled at Axl and the band by the contributors to this section of the board. You seem to insist that a real GNR fan would have no negative opinions on the state of play for GNR at this stage in the saga. Well, GNR fans do have those opinions and many of these fans just happen to be VR fans too. I visit and contribute to other boards too, but this one is the most interesting right now because some I get a lot of enjoyment questioning some of the less than balanced opinions of self prolaimed GNR super fans and stirring up anger in people like you. Thanks for the laughs

[Grouse]

Once again a thread has turned into a vr/gnr debate and look what a suprise the axlites are responsible for ruining the thread...

nice going guys 

[jarmo]

Once again a thread has turned into a vr/gnr debate and look what a suprise the axlites are responsible for ruining the thread...

nice going guys 

Enjoy your warning.




/jarmo

[jarmo]

I get a lot of enjoyment questioning some of the less than balanced opinions of self prolaimed GNR super fans and stirring up anger in people like you. Thanks for the laughs

So you admit you're nothing but a sad troll....

And you should know we don't like those in this little democracy.

Keep that in mind. 



/jarmo

[Intercourse]

I don't need to give you examples.

I'm going to assume that if your material was stronger you probably would have.

The little clique of "GN'R fans" who love nothing more than to put down the band for their "shitty business" (among other things) because they refuse to do things your fucking way.

Our way? How about the 'normal' way? The 'put out an album and then tour it' way? That's the way us 'GNR fans' would like to see it. Nothing more. I don't see why that gets on your tits so much. What way would you prefer?

You're probably the kind of people who love to post shit and if something bad happens, you'll say "what did I tell you? I knew it would happen!"
 

Not really. We're just expressing the opinion that we are pleased than VR is functioning like a proper band and unhappy and frustrated that GNR is not. We're just not afraid to say it, that's the difference.

Then when the opposite happens it's "I always supported this band and I knew they could do it!".

Don't think so. I challenge you to find a single example of that with any of the submissions made by the members you called out in your mail.

You never lose.

I know, it must be terrible for you ?

Axl is held responsible for everything.

He's the CEO, that's the rules, we didn't make them.

Even things that happen that are out of his control, but when VR fucks up, it's always management and/or the record company.....

As i said previously VR have been criticised by many VR fans here for their cancelled dates, choice of single and EP content. You're a bit mixed up.

Some of you are fans of something that doesn't exist anymore and you're probably holding Axl (and the band) responsible for standing in the way of that reunion dream from happening.

I would say that that statement could very well be true for many fans. It's just that Axl (and the band) as you tellingly referred to them as, not 'GNR' is still playing the same material written by the old band for their second world tour and still no new album to help them move on from there. I find it hard to be inspired by a cover band, when CD comes out I will be doing my very best listening and hopefully embracing the new GNR, not the show band they are now.

Is that supposed to be funny? ? ? ?

No, I just read that free speech was often denied to people by them.

 

Since you're such and expert, how do you advise a person who starts a web site should run it? ? ? ? ?

Well I'd take myself and my mission to defend GNR a little less seriously for a start, then I'd lighten up a bit and approach the whole thing with a lot less rage.

?You're as amusing as the rest of the little clique.

Thanks you're a tough crowd.

You're all too good to be GN'R fans because of your "objective" point of views. In reality, you (like the rest of us) don't know shit about the band and yet you think you have all the answers to everything.

Yeah and my brother is bigger than your brother. You should let some 12 year old run your site, even they would come off better than this.

[estebanf]

the 7,000 a night that are going to see them live

You have to be kidding me... now, some interesting info:

Date: May 3, 2007
Location: Hollywood , CA
Venue: Avalon, 1735 Vine Street, Hollywood, CA 90028 ; U.S.A.[Venue Website]
Box Office: (323) 462.8900
CAPACITY: 1500
http://www.wantickets.com/EventDetail.aspx?e_id=24744

Date: May 5, 2007
Location: San Francisco, CA
Venue: Warfield; 982 Market Street, San Francisco, CA 94102. [Venue website]
Box Office: 415-567-2060
CAPACITY: 2000
http://members.aol.com/reiter/warfield.htm

Date: May 7, 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Venue: Showbox Music Club, 1426 1st Ave, Seattle, WA 98101; U.S.A.[Venue Website]
Box Office: (206) 628-3151
CAPACITY: 1,137
http://www.nwsource.com/peoplespicks/2004/nightlife/live_music.html

Date: May 10, 2007
Location: Chicago, IL
Venue: The Riviera, 4746 N. Racine 60640-4912, Chicago, IL, U.S.A. [Venue website]
Box Office Number: (773) 275-6800
CAPACITY: 2,300
http://www.gotickets.com/venues/il/riviera_night_club.php

Date: May 12, 2007
Location: Royal Oak, MI
Venue: Royal Oak Music Theatre, 318 W. Fourth Street, Royal Oak, MI 48607; U.S.A.[Venue Website]
Box Office: 248-399-2980
CAPACITY: 2,000
http://www.jambase.com/search.asp?eventID=413411

Date: May 13, 2007
Location: Toronto, ONT, Canada
Venue: Kool Haus; 132 Queen's Quay E., Toronto, ON M5A 3Y5. [Venue website]
Box Office Number: 416.869.0045
CAPACITY: 2,000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Guvernment

Date: May 15, 2007
Location: Washington, DC
Venue: Nightclub 9:30; 815 V St. N.W.Washington, DC. [Venue website]
Box Office Number: (202) 393-0930
CAPACITY: 1,200
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9:30_Club

Date: May 16, 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Venue: The Avalon Night Club, Avalon Night Club; 15 Lansdowne Street; Boston, MA, U.S.A. [Venue Website]
Box Office Number: (617) 262-2424
CAPACITY: 2,000
http://www.bostonnightclubnews.com/avalonboston/

Date: May 18, 2007
Location: Sayreville, NJ
Venue: Starland Ballroom; 570 Jernee Mill Road, Sayreville, NJ  08872; U.S.A [Venue Website]
Box Office Number: 732-238-5500
CAPACITY: 2,200
http://www.jambase.com/search.asp?eventID=501410

Date: May 22, 2007
Location: New York, NY
Venue: Nokia Theatre, 1515 Broadway, 44th & Broadway, New York, NY 10036; U.S.A.[Venue Website]
Box Office: 212-930-1950
CAPACITY: 2,100
http://www.nokiatheatrenyc.com/abouttheater.php

18,347 / 10 = 1,834

Now replace 7000 with 1800+ (if VR sellout everywhere they perform...)

[Grouse]

Once again a thread has turned into a vr/gnr debate and look what a suprise the axlites are responsible for ruining the thread...

nice going guys

Enjoy your warning.




/jarmo

Seriously Jarmo -2?, what for? I was merely stating a fact since it was not a vr fan who brought up guns...

[Ines_rocks!]

what all this has to do about the cancelled gigs? why does threads hv to end up this way? ppl fighting over vr/gnr discussions that have nothing to do with the topic... ppl getting minus karma.. so fucking cool indeed.
I dont fucking care if guns cancel more gigs than vr... how does it make me feel happier? what matters to be at this point is that there aint any oficial statement on the matter... nothing at all... and all I want to know is if I?m going to see them live or not...

[Booker Floyd]

You, Booker, Mikkamakka, Naupis and Genesis obviously haven't. The little clique of "GN'R fans" who love nothing more than to put down the band for their "shitty business" (among other things) because they refuse to do things your fucking way.

 

I do that?  Id like to see an example.

[jarmo]

You, Booker, Mikkamakka, Naupis and Genesis obviously haven't. The little clique of "GN'R fans" who love nothing more than to put down the band for their "shitty business" (among other things) because they refuse to do things your fucking way.

 

I do that?  Id like to see an example.

Of course you would.

There's like years and years of material on you where you did nothing but argue with people who supported the band.


I'm not gonna waste my time on giving you examples, I remember the past.


Just like I don't need to prove to some guy called Intercourse that through the years I've seen plenty of assholes take advantage of the fact that I let them come back here only to see them attack the band over and over again.

You should let some 12 year old run your site, even they would come off better than this.

Fine. We had a little voting session and you won.


It's time for you to leave this playground. You've had your fun.

It's so obvious that you're only here to argue about stupid shit.

A great example of a troll. We don't need your kind here.


Bye.


Now go cry somewhere about me being on a power trip just because I don't put up with your stupid games. 




For everybody else, if you're here to try to "insult" me or make fun of me, just say so and I'll deal with it.

I don't really feel the need to play these games with kids who think they're so clever by not breaking any rules.

A lot of people come here to play these games and when I've had enough of their "comedy", they'll accuse me of all kinds of things. Maybe they should've thought about not doing that smart ass comedy routine in the first place and things would've been different. 



/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

There's like years and years of material on you where you did nothing but argue with people who supported the band.

Thats equivalent to "putting down the band?" 

Obviously not.

I'm not gonna waste my time on giving you examples, I remember the past.

Making an allegation and following it with a cop-out rather than backing it up...Im shocked.

Here are some of the posts Ive found after typing "Axl" into the search bar:

Daves recent posting has been very bizarre.

Judging by its absence on this board, Im assuming that Mercks letter isnt allowed to be discussed.  However, in it he says that the tour dates contributed to delays in the albums engineering (or something similar).  These dates might have a similar effect.  It seems a lot goes into these shows and they could be distractions if Axl is seriously focusing his efforts on the albums release. 

Another consideration for those unhappy with the news is that while March 6th is the tentative release date, there should be plenty of Chinese Democracy-related activity in the interim.  Were sure to hear a single before March, the album cover should be floating around soon enough, and hopefully well see a decent amount of press.  Axl alluded to the process in the letter.  Eight weeks, the amount of time Axl says the label will have to roll out the album, means the process should begin sometime next month.   

Its funny to think Jarmo, Younggunner and I were all in the same building.

It was a really good show.  Its hard to compare to the May 12th one, but the band sounded good.  The highlight, for me, might have been Ron Thals "Dont Cry" solo.  Watching a full Madison Square Garden sing along to the entire song was pretty special.  "Live & Let Die" was great.  So was "You Could Be Mine."  Maybe its due to his current low-profile, but I missed Slash a bit, particularly during these songs (and "November Rain").  Dont construe this as whining or reunion wishing, just a simple feeling I got during a handful of songs, a feeling I didnt get at the May 12th show.  The band did a great job as usual.  Fortus was just virtually flawless and the other guys were great.  Axl also did a great job as usual. 

Madison Square Garden attracts a more mainstream crowd, as opposed to a small venue like the Hammerstein which drew a large number of fans through message board presales, so while a lot of the Hammerstein fans sang along to the new songs, the MSG fans werent that into them and the momentum stalled a bit.  Thats obviously just a symptom of no album, and is just one more reason to not include more unheard songs until the albums out.  But Im very happy to see this band performing well on a successful tour with an album on the way.   

Also with this "half of Chinese Democracy" stuff. How do we know we have heard half of it?

Chinese Democracy
The Blues
Madagascar
I.R.S.
Better
There Was A Time

Thats 6 songs that are safe bets for the album (I doubt hed include them as regulars if they werent on there)...assuming theres 12 or so tracks, thats half of the album. 

Did you avoid the UYI tour before the release of the UYI albums because you didnt want things spoiled? During that time, people loved hearing that new music. I dont see why the logic has to be different this time, since apparently he has a trilogy of material to play around with.

One difference is the internet - those new songs would spread on a scale unlike anything in the 90s.  Thats obviously not how he wants the new songs unveiled. 

We all want to hear new songs, but with six likely Chinese Democracy songs in regular rotation, Id rather hear the rest on the album.  As for people attending, who is really passing up GNR because theres too many classics in the setlist?  Thats what most casual fans, and many die-hards, want to see.  Id like to see a few more. 

The key is Axl actually releasing the album.  Assuming he does, itll about 5 or 6 months until hes playing those new songs.  No big deal.  If not, then the problems obviously bigger than the setlist.

"The crowd didn?t go nuts for them. Most of the new songs are dystopian, tense, portentous, finally a bit inconclusive; they dabble in electronic rhythms, big keyboard sounds and droning repetition. They didn?t produce much catharsis, on stage or in the audience."

Untrue.  I was amazed by the reaction those songs got, particularly "Better."  I believe Axl even commented on how at least half of the theatre sang along to these unreleased songs: "Downloadin' motherfuckers."

I am suprised more people aren't upset about this possible fall release, wouldn't you think by now axl would have some news that would be much sooner..

No. 

Besides, its only 4 or 5 months.  Itll come quick enough.

From the buildup Bach gave to the surreality of Axl arriving, it was pure excitement but they actually delivered with a really fun and informative interview.  All the guys - Bach, Ian, Trunk, Jericho and Axl himself - created a fun atmosphere and it translated into good radio.  The Piazza call toward the end was great as well.  The interview went surprisingly smoothly with a lot of funny moments...no, its not a hard-hitting interview, but it shouldnt have been.  Axl was just hanging out and he came across as very cool and down-to-earth.  Id love to hear him do Opie & Anthonys show, they have a very similar vibe.  Or Ron & Fez, who do great interviews with musicians and other artists.

By the way, is there more to the interview?

In response to the question "Will you be disappointed if there is no new guitarist?":

Nope.  This lineup is nice for the most part, but its 95% about Axl for me.

I think the band should be afforded some slack - they certainly didnt have to add extra shows to give more fans an opportunity to see them, but they did and should be applauded for it.  Who knows what the details were...perhaps these were the only dates they could manage?  Besides, Im sure you can manage to trade your tickets with somebody from the 5/12 show.

I do see your point, I wanted to see the 15th show for the same reasons, but I dont think its anything to be that upset about.  Regardless of the date, youre going to see the band in a great, small setting - an opportunity we might not see again any time soon.

[jarmo]

Yes, Booker, you're the biggest supporter of the band and there never was any kind of issues with you arguing with others in the past.

 

You love to argue. I know it, you know it.




Just like the rest, bringing up some positive posts is supposed to prove that I'm wrong.

But I'm done here.


I have my opinion on you, it's based on years and years of reading you arguing with people.





/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

(Continued)

Cool pictures, its great to see Axl having fun. 

He sounded very good as far as I could tell, but honestly everythings so loud that its hard to really discern either way.  I will say that I thought his mic was off for a few songs - I couldnt hear his voice at all.  I was about front row, so I could sort of hear his voice off-mic at times, but not much on-mic.  That was for the rocking songs however, he was pretty clear on the slow stuff.

I feel this is the weakest album out of all their studio works...

I thought that was common knowledge...

I think VRs record is better, and Im certain Axls is too.

I cant imagine anybody wants to see covers on the new album...I want it to be a strictly Axl affair.  However, Id like to see some new live covers.

Actually no, I just think these threads are so long and diluted that its tough to keep up with the discussion.

Ive heard all of the demos, and I like them all a lot.  This ("Catcher In The Rye") really caught me off guard.  Axl really created a melodic stunner with this one.  The Queen and Elton John comparisons are appropriate...And I dont know if anybody mentioned the intro vocal line, which is nearly identical to "Madagascar"s.  The breakdown (around the 2 minute mark) sounds like it could have come straight out of a new wave song.  On paper, that sounds atrocious - new wave in a GNR song.  But it works big-time.  The whole song does - great verses, great background vocal melodies, fantastic ending.  The workings of a true GNR classic.

I feel about as strongly about "There Was A Time."  The intro isnt good, but Ill chalk that up as a mere demo drawback and hope its improved on the final mix.  I was shaky on the chorus at first, but Ive warmed up to it.  The extended guitar break is great and I really like the "there was a time, didnt want to know it all" refrain.  The screaming ("I would do anything for you") is fantastic.  Theres strong shades of "Estranged."  Axl sounds great on all of these demos.  If I were to nitpick, Id question the inclusion of drum loops and such.  They might only exist for demo purposes, but I think the songs would work perfectly without them.  Theyre ultimately unnecessary.  But if theyre not overdone, they might not diminish my enjoyment of the tracks much at all.

"Better" is a good track.  The intro reminds me a little of Rage Against The Machines "Year Of The Boomerang."  The robotic guitar that comes in after the stop-gap part is pretty cool and, again, a damn fine ending (although they could have ended after one "No one ever told me..." instead of two).  I really dig the second solo (I believe its Robin Finck).  Aside from the switch-up in the middle, this sounds like something that couldve played on rock radio in 1996, which is a pretty good thing in my view.

And my feelings are similar for "I.R.S.," which oddly enough feels "old."  Very cool song.

So Im generally feeling very good about these tracks; theyve restored my interest in the album, which was almost non-existent for a period.  I think Axl would do a lot to squelch further links (or at least widespread listening) if he would just give a time-frame for the albums release.  So far, its looking damn good.

A truly unbelievable show.

Axl looked like a million bucks.  The look really worked, especially in contrast to the 2002 hometown jersey routine.  He did a typically great job with everything, although it seemed to me as if his vocals were way low on some of the songs.

Robin Finck won me over.  I liked him fine enough before, but last night he stepped up as the GNR guitarist.  The Jesus look is very cool (I thought he was the new guitarist at first when the lights went up) and he displayed great presence, diving into the crowd twice. 

The rest of the band did a great job as well, showing a huge amount of chemistry.  There was a lot of hugging and interacting on-stage among all of them.

Sebastian Bach was about 8 feet away from where I was and upon seeing him I thought it would be great if he jumped up on stage for a song.  He didnt disappoint and it was one of the highlights of the night.  He came back for the rest ofthe show and he was genuinely into every second of it.

I was pleasently surprised to hear the new songs.

"Nightrain" and "Paradise City" was amazing.

The biggest disappointment was the new guitarist.  Bumblefoot seems like a cool guy and a proficient guitar player, but I was majorly unimpressed with his overall presence.  He just didnt fit.  And despite my past criticisms, Ive come to really appreciate Bucketheads persona and playing and for the first time, I missed him being in GNR.  I couldnt help but think that his presence would have taken things to an even higher level.

Thats about it though.  The show was phenomenal, everybody did a great job and Axl was better than hes been since coming back.

*My opinion on Ron Thal has become much more favorable.

Thats going back to nearly 2005, and thats probably nearly half of my posts in the GNR section in the last year or so.  I had some nice things to say about the recent demos, but it was my understanding that theyre not up for discussion.

Is it a coincidence that my posts became more positive when there were more positive, and less negative, things on which to comment?  No, its what I have always contended, and thats why I might be perceived as more objective than some other posters.  However, that hasnt stopped me from also countering the rampant negativity toward former members, which likely explains why youve mistakenly identified me as somebody that puts down Axl/GNR.  I have used Axl/GNR as examples plenty of times to illustrate the double standards of posters such as yourself; I dont criticize or judge them, but since Im arguing your remarks, or the remarks of posters with whom you identify, I can see how you might be confused and believe otherwise.

[Dead N' Bloated]

Where's the backlash that Axl gets when Guns cancels a show?

Exactly. No one else cops any shit when they cancel.


 

[Booker Floyd]

Yes, Booker, you're the biggest supporter of the band and there never was any kind of issues with you arguing with others in the past.

I think I address this in my previous post, which was written before I could read your post.

Just like the rest, bringing up some positive posts is supposed to prove that I'm wrong.

Yes. 

I should note again that these are many of my posts in that section in the past year-and-a-half; I havent posted there very much during that time.  The rest are essentially neutral.  Youve portrayed me as somebody that consistently puts down Axl/GNR.  My previous posts shows that you are wrong.

But I'm done here.

Im not surprised at all by this response, but I somehow I doubt it.

[jarmo]

Look Booker, my last post about this topic. You have a past of calling GN'R fans zealots among other things.

Why do you think I gave you that kind of custom title?

It was because you were attacking others. It was sarcasm.


No matter how many quotes you pull up from 2006, your past speaks volumes.




/jarmo

[metallex78]

Where's the backlash that Axl gets when Guns cancels a show?

Exactly. No one else cops any shit when they cancel.


 

I'm an avid VR fan, and I think it's fucked that they've cancelled shows, especially for the people planing to see them then.


Does that make some of you feel better?

[faldor]

Where's the backlash that Axl gets when Guns cancels a show?

Exactly. No one else cops any shit when they cancel.


 

I'm an avid VR fan, and I think it's fucked that they've cancelled shows, especially for the people planing to see them then.


Does that make some of you feel better?

I know some people are upset, and they should be.  But apparently the dates are SUPPOSED to be rescheduled, so I guess we'll have to wait and see.  My only point is, whenever Guns cancels a show the thread is 10 pages long filled with every insult in the book about Axl.   

[Booker Floyd]

Look Booker, my last post about this topic.

Im not surprised at all by this response, but I somehow I doubt it.

How prescient of me. 

Yes, when I first came here four or five years ago, I called some posters zealots; they likely were.  That kind of rhetoric is bad form, but those posters were partisan in their allegience to Axl, which often meant bashing former members.  As I have said, criticizing them isnt criticizing the band.

And I have criticized the band, as well.  Without rehashing old arguments, there wasnt a lot to praise, and plenty to criticize, between 2002 and 2006.  But even then I said that I would praise the band when there were reasons to.  2006 was a good year for GNR, and it was reflected in my posts; in fact, the optimism I showed at the years end now looks foolish.  You would like to believe otherwise, but I do support Axl and the new band, and those posts prove that.  If that doesnt convince you, Im not surprised...though maybe I should be since you are the one that fended off accusations of bias against VR by reminding us that you saw them five times.  Its also surprising that you dont understand the positive impact GNR had in 2006 considering that it took you seeing them live to realize you actually didnt like VR.   

No matter how many quotes you pull up from 2006, your past speaks volumes.

Well, I just explained it.  But your biases and reality dont seem to get along these days. 

[Booker Floyd]

My only point is, whenever Guns cancels a show the thread is 10 pages long filled with every insult in the book about Axl.   

How many dates has GNR booked/played/cancelled?

How many dates has VR booked/played/cancelled?

Im not sure of the numbers, but Im fairly certain that the ratios a bit different.  And therein lies your answer.