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Author Topic: Goddamn, people are idiots...  (Read 8864 times)
Mal Brossard
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« on: April 27, 2007, 01:07:38 PM »

A man living in Cleveland lawfully caried a concealed weapon. Two young punks accosted him while he was walking up to his home. One of the douchebags, a 15 year-old street gang member, pulled out a gun and attempted to rob the guy. The homeowner pulled out his .40 caliber and killed the gun-weilding shit head. Now the homeowner is under seige by neighborhood asshats, and was forced to leave his home.

Cleveland man caught up in gun debate
Posted by Damian G. Guevara and Patrick O?Donnell April 23, 2007 19:56PM

Damon Wells is the man gun supporters imagined when they fought for the right to carry concealed weapons.

He had a permit to carry his gun, and he had the gun on him when a pair of teenage thieves approached him Saturday night on his front porch.

When one of the youths pulled a gun, Wells whipped out his and shot one of the boys multiple times in the chest, police said.

Arthur Buford, 15, died after stumbling away and collapsing on a sidewalk near East 134th Street and Kinsman Road.

City prosecutors decided Monday that Wells, 25, was justified and would not be charged for what appears to be the first time a concealed-carry permit holder has shot and killed an attacker.

Nonetheless, the shooting reignited the debate that roared three years ago when Ohio's concealed-carry law took effect.

Gun supporters said the weapon saved Wells' life. Opponents said it took Buford's - that the 15-year-old might be alive if a citizen had not been armed.

An angry throng of about 30 youths gathered Monday and set up a memorial at the intersection where Buford, a freshman at John F. Kennedy High School, died.

His cousin, Tameka Foster, 21, questioned why police refused to punish Buford's shooter. "They let that man run out freely," Foster said. "My cousin is dead."

Buford's accomplice disappeared after the shooting and had not been caught Monday night. Police found a .38-caliber handgun in the mail chute of a nearby house. They believe it belonged to Buford or the other suspect, Lt. Thomas Stacho said.

Police took a .40-caliber Smith and Wesson firearm from Wells, the police report shows.

Both sides of the gun debate said it was sad that a teenager died.

"It's tragic," said Jim Irvine, chairman of the Buckeye Firearm Association. "Anytime somebody dies it's tragic, but it's hard to have any sympathy when he chose to have a gun and go threaten somebody's life."

Irvine said it was "great that a potential victim is able to continue his life instead of having a criminal take it."

Toby Hoover, of the Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence, said she had not heard of any other fatal shooting involving a concealed-carry permit holder.

"This is one of the few where they actually used it to stop a crime," Hoover said.

But, she said, "there's still a dead kid here."

A man who answered phone a number for Wells refused to comment and hung up. No one answered the door at Wells' home.

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/04/cleveland_man_caught_in_gun_co.html

More here: No sympathy for thug culture
Wednesday, April 25, 2007Regina BrettPlain Dealer Columnist
There's a sheet of tributes taped to a red brick wall.

There's a utility pole covered in glittery balloons.

There's a pile of teddy bears resting not far from where 15-year-old Arthur Buford died on the sidewalk.


But there's no debate over concealed-carry laws.

A debate would be as unnecessary as the tributes posted to honor a teen who went looking for trouble and found it.

Damon Wells, 25, was sitting on his own porch Saturday night. It's a long, narrow gray porch with a wicker chair at the end. The house sits near Kinsman Road and East 134th Street in Cleveland.

He was minding his own when two teens tried to rob him. The plan backfired. When Wells saw one kid pull a gun, he drew his own Smith & Wesson and blasted away.

It's sad that a delinquent died on the sidewalk.

It would have been sadder if a law-abiding homeowner had died on his porch.

Wells had no criminal record.

Buford, a freshman at John F. Kennedy High School, was still on probation. Last year he committed an aggravated robbery.

Three years ago, Ohio made it legal to carry a concealed weapon. Wells had a permit to carry the gun. Back when Second Amendment advocates argued for that right, they warned people: Don't carry a gun unless you plan to use it if your life is threatened.

The Smith & Wesson could be credited for saving Wells' life, but it didn't protect his home.


After the shooting, someone smashed in his front windows. The house looks deserted now, with sheets of plywood nailed over the windows and front door.

Ever since the shooting, people have stopped at the nearby memorial to scrawl messages honoring Buford.

"God gave me a new angel man . . . Why Da Good Die Young . . . I'll see you in eternity . . . You are with the Lord and we happy for that."

One woman walked by with her toddler. She set a teddy bear in the pile of stuffed animals and scrawled a message on the sign. Her little boy pointed and squealed at the balloons dancing in the wind until she pulled him away.

Others drove by and stopped to tie more heart-shaped balloons to the pole.

Buford's cousin had grumbled to one reporter about the shooter being allowed to run free.

Wells killed the teen Saturday. City prosecutors cleared Wells on Monday, calling the shooting justified. Which leads me to wonder: Why does it take so long to clear police officers when they fire in self-defense?

At least no one can cry race this time. Both the shooter and dead teen are black.

I can't bring myself to call Buford the victim of a shooting. He was the instigator of one.

His family should be ashamed of his actions and apologize to the man he tried to rob.

----------------------------------------------------------

What's the over/under for Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson to fly to Cleveland to side with the shooter?

"[T]hat the 15-year-old might be alive if a citizen had not been armed."  Hey here's an idea: the 15-year-old might be alive if he didn't try to stick a gun in someone's face!

In the eyes of certain people, the perpetrator is never at fault when he gets what's coming to him.  Certain people are really fucking stupid.
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deanaxlrose
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2007, 01:20:16 PM »

Well, Its a matter of Time before That boy killed people, That Man send him to Hell for The good reasons. yes
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polluxlm
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2007, 01:23:15 PM »

Well, Its a matter of Time before That boy killed people, That Man send him to Hell for The good reasons. yes


That's the kind of thinking that will get you to hell, no? hihi

It was clearly self defence, I don't see any 'news' in this. The 'intellectuals' needs to find a proper job, this is not what I'm paying tax for.
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SLCPUNK
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2007, 01:39:53 PM »

Mess with the bull you get the horns.....
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lastroots
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2007, 01:43:00 PM »

It would have been selfe defense if the guy had shot the boy in the leg or arm.

But again a good example for why weapons are no good, no matter who carries them. If it really is a matter of self defense, I can imagine injuring the one who threatens me. But killing him as a completely different matter.
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SLCPUNK
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2007, 01:44:54 PM »

In 'Merika, we shoot to kill.
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LeftToDecay
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i'd love to pull the wires from the wall


« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2007, 02:15:18 PM »

Jesus christ this world sucks when you can't even kill 15 year old shitheads anymore without getting harrased by all sorts of shitheads.

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you are what you should fear
lastroots
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2007, 02:17:48 PM »

In 'Merika, we shoot to kill.


That's why we ol' Europeans have our problems with 'Merica...  Wink
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2007, 03:07:59 PM »

It's sad that someone had to die, but this is perfectly justified. 

Of course, some will decry the violence.  The real culprit isn't guns, though, but the situations that lead urban youths to join gangs and commit crimes.
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2007, 03:16:01 PM »

15 years old rob you with a gun? people need to carry guns for protection ?

man, that's some fucked up country you guys live in .... and i wanted to move to NYC for a bit ... is upper east side safe ? Wink
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« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2007, 03:21:43 PM »

15 years old rob you with a gun? people need to carry guns for protection ?

man, that's some fucked up country you guys live in .... and i wanted to move to NYC for a bit ... is upper east side safe ? Wink

Avoid areas with gangs and you should be ok.
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Jim Bob
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« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2007, 03:23:11 PM »

the little shit got what he deserved.   

people are actually sorry for this piece of shit?
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« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2007, 03:55:24 PM »

15 years old rob you with a gun? people need to carry guns for protection ?

man, that's some fucked up country you guys live in .... and i wanted to move to NYC for a bit ... is upper east side safe ? Wink

They don't have ghettos in France?  Bad neighborhoods?  It's all sunshine, roses, and skipping down the street holding hands?

Of course, when my friend visited (she really loves French guys) she said that they drank so much wine, nobody felt like doing anything bad to each other.  Maybe that's the solution to violence in America....more wine.  I'm all for it. 

there are, but i can tell you that, you dont FEAR for your life. i dont think i've ever seen a gun in my life (except at the shooting range or so). i did live in nice areas in france, but i often, all my life, go play soccer in the "bad" neighborhoods. so.

i can tell you for a fact that "your life and safety" is really NOT the main subject you have in your head in my country.
i think it's sad state where you get into the mindstate where you "need a gun to protect yourself".

so yeah, compared to what you guys live, im sorry for you, it's pretty much sunshine and roses Wink


Jim Bob, i am sorry. we are not supposed to take on justice alone.
The guy kille a little boy.

Let say, the kid robbed the man. got away. then got picked up by the police later.
what do you expect ? Death Sentence? Prison.
i dont think that you will morally kill a 15 years old for robbery, even with your hardcore cowboy mind.

So here you are happy that the Kid got killed.

In our civilized countries, we have police, justice to ensure the good cycle of a safe society. if people start to police their life and lay down justice on their own (cause in the end that's what he did, he sentenced the kid to death, for robbery ...)


you know what? i'm kinda tired of trying to debate with youze guys crazy society. it's your kids dying.
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freedom78
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« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2007, 04:01:46 PM »

15 years old rob you with a gun? people need to carry guns for protection ?

man, that's some fucked up country you guys live in .... and i wanted to move to NYC for a bit ... is upper east side safe ? Wink

They don't have ghettos in France?  Bad neighborhoods?  It's all sunshine, roses, and skipping down the street holding hands?

Of course, when my friend visited (she really loves French guys) she said that they drank so much wine, nobody felt like doing anything bad to each other.  Maybe that's the solution to violence in America....more wine.  I'm all for it. 

there are, but i can tell you that, you dont FEAR for your life. i dont think i've ever seen a gun in my life (except at the shooting range or so). i did live in nice areas in france, but i often, all my life, go play soccer in the "bad" neighborhoods. so.

i can tell you for a fact that "your life and safety" is really NOT the main subject you have in your head in my country.
i think it's sad state where you get into the mindstate where you "need a gun to protect yourself".

so yeah, compared to what you guys live, im sorry for you, it's pretty much sunshine and roses Wink


Jim Bob, i am sorry. we are not supposed to take on justice alone.
The guy kille a little boy.

Let say, the kid robbed the man. got away. then got picked up by the police later.
what do you expect ? Death Sentence? Prison.
i dont think that you will morally kill a 15 years old for robbery, even with your hardcore cowboy mind.

So here you are happy that the Kid got killed.

In our civilized countries, we have police, justice to ensure the good cycle of a safe society. if people start to police their life and lay down justice on their own (cause in the end that's what he did, he sentenced the kid to death, for robbery ...)


you know what? i'm kinda tired of trying to debate with youze guys crazy society. it's your kids dying.

Yeah, the kid was armed too.  I suppose that if the man knew 100% that the kid wouldn't shoot that your argument is perfect.  But the reason the kid had the gun is because the threat of shooting is what lends him credibility in this crime. 

So, actually, it wasn't justice.  It was defense.  The shooter didn't seek out someone who had committed a crime.  Crime came to him, and he acted to defend himself. 
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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2007, 04:04:43 PM »

doing anything bad to each other. ?Maybe that's the solution to violence in America....more wine. ?I'm all for it. ?

Jim Bob, i am sorry. we are not supposed to take on justice alone.
The guy kille a little boy.

Let say, the kid robbed the man. got away. then got picked up by the police later.
what do you expect ? Death Sentence? Prison.
i dont think that you will morally kill a 15 years old for robbery, even with your hardcore cowboy mind.

You know, I'd agree with you if the 15 year old robbed the guy, and was walking away when he was shot. ?There is no death penalty for robbery. ?But that's not what happened. ?He was threatening an innocent man's life. ?How can you say it wasn't justified for the man to defend himself?

do you know what the kid wanted to do? are we sure he was about to shoot the damn man?
He sentenced him to death by doubt.

What i want you to see, is that the next step for these kinda of mentality, would be me shooting a guy that kinda walks on my yard ... because i dont know what's gonna happen .. maybe he wants to kill me !

what's the point of the police?
by telling people they need to carry guns for protection, you are destroying any value the police has. you are telling your citizens " we cannot do anything for you, fight for yourself " .... (oh wait ?... Smiley )


there is not death penalty for robbery? but there is for "threatning life".

?_?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 04:07:04 PM by WAT-EVER, i'm totally buggin » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2007, 04:06:34 PM »

freedom78

so for you the crime has already been commited?
threatening a guy with a gun or actually shooting at him is the same thing ?

some man should choose "killing another man, a kid" over " getting your money taken" ?  ... wow. just wow.
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« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2007, 04:10:52 PM »

Walter Sobchak- What's mine is mine.

Shoulda bitten the hooligans' ear off.
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« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2007, 04:16:44 PM »

If you had a gun and someone was pointing one at you, how long would you wait to see if he really intended on using it or not?
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A hair's breadth!!


« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2007, 04:21:03 PM »


Avoid areas with gangs and you should be ok.

Problem is, gangs are spreading like wildfire...
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« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2007, 04:24:31 PM »

If you had a gun and someone was pointing one at you, how long would you wait to see if he really intended on using it or not?

considering the fact that this situation will never happen to me, except if i become a soldier on a warfield, i dont have to answer this question.

again, you'd rather play the cowboy rather than giving your money or so ?

here is a little something for you:

Bullshit. say some punk tried to get you for your auto
Would call the one time and play the rolemmodel?
No! I think youll play like a thug
Next hear the shot of a magnum slug, humming coming at ya!
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