South African shows cancelled

[MotherGooseLuvR]

^^
No Jarmo, I think you're misunderstanding me.

Yes, I think it's selfish to cancel those shows instead of finding a replacement.

But the band doesn't get screwed when they cancel shows.? Axl still pays them.? If decides to pull the plug on a show, they've still rehearsed and traveled.? They've done their work as musicians, even if the show was pulled.? Maybe there's a performance fee that he could refuse to pay them.  But I doubt he'd be that big of a dick.  Especially in the case of shows that get cancelled last minute.

Believe me, I am not in favor of these guys getting screwed.? At this point, I feel a lot more for the band members than I do for Axl.?

[redx]

This thread should be locked.
Africa is over.

Please move along and stop with the speculation, as it won't change a thing 

[sandman]

i think when making decisions (for example, like whether to play shows without stinson or not), Axl should consider what the fans want.

and he should do a little bit of a better job of factoring what the fans want into his decisions.

i think that is a fair statement that everyone can agree on.

[Mr.Intensity]

Post Tommy Stinson's Doctors report!!!!!!!!!

[jarmo]

^^
No Jarmo, I think you're misunderstanding me.

Yes, I think it's selfish to cancel those shows instead of finding a replacement.

But the band doesn't get screwed when they cancel shows.  Axl still pays them.  If decides to pull the plug on a show, they've still rehearsed and traveled.  They've done their work as musicians, even if the show was pulled.  Maybe there's a performance fee that he could refuse to pay them.  But I doubt he'd be that big of a dick.  Especially in the case of shows that get cancelled last minute.

Believe me, I am not in favor of these guys getting screwed.  At this point, I feel a lot more for the band members than I do for Axl. 

Bands usually get paid for playing shows, then somebody has to pay to get the band to the venue. Transport, accommodations  and everything else involved with putting a show and tour together.

You make it sound like the band is happy to cancel just because they, according to you, get paid anyway.

They rehearse, plan tours and then cancel just to fuck with you. And they don't care because they'll get paid anyway!

They don't care that fans are let down and that a lot of work has gone into planning the tour. Noooo, they just care about getting paid.

 




/jarmo

[Verse Chorus Verse]

We need to ban Jarmo.

[jarmo]

I shouldn't be surprised to see some of the posts here.

But somehow I still get surprised when I see the band being called selfish for canceling when they lose on it as well. Everybody loses.





/jarmo

[J?]

I shouldn't be surprised to see some of the posts here.

But somehow I still get surprised when I see the band being called selfish for canceling when they lose on it as well. Everybody loses.





/jarmo

I see what you are saying, but why take down the news report that you had on the frontpage?

It was up, if I recall....

[Death Cube K]

I'm not for the band being screwed.  They're going to be paid for their work on the shows just the same if Tommy's there or not.

I don't have to be an expert on band management to know that it's entirely within the realm of possibility for a band to replace a bass player for a few shows.  You do realize this has happened before?  Bands have found a way to manage this particular crisis in the past.  Shit, even GNR has.

If GNR can replace Slash forever, then surely Tommy can be replaced for a few days.

It might not have been the ideal situation for the band, but in my opinion, it's way better than just cancelling the show and disappointing tens of thousands of fans... fans who've continued to support this band after years of inactivity and disappointment.

Axl made his call.  He has every right to.  I'm sure he can make a strong case for why it's unimaginable that GNR could play a concert without Tommy Stinson.  I just think there's another side to that debate that's worth considering... and that's WHAT'S BEST FOR THE FANS?

Amen to that. It is absolutely NO problem to replace Tommy for a couple of shows. I have no idea why they drop out of very important shows when they easily can get a guy, do a couple of rehearsals with him and then do the shows. It's just bass lines for cryin out loud. Is bass lines so important that they have to cancell shows because the specific bass line player is hurt for a couple of weeks? Not really. Anyone can do these damn bass lines, they could even bring in a famous replacemement and make a PR stunt out of it. Ask Nikki Sixx or what the fuck. Now wouldnt that be something else than just cancell because the one doing pretty easy bass lines cant do them?

[jarmo]

Well this is going nowhere. The same little group is calling the band all kinds of things and won't believe anything GN'R says. We know that by now....

There's no news on this situation right now so no need to go on with the pointless attacks, bashing and speculation.


I hope a bunch of you really get into the music business soon to use all the knowledge you have.




/jarmo

[legolas]

According to a Dutch Newspaper (De Telegraaf) GNR have cancelled the South African Dates.

http://www.telegraaf.nl/prive/62561031/Guns_N__Roses_zegt_Zuid-Afrikaanse_shows_af.html

Reason is the injury of Tommy. The band hopes to fullfill the concerts planned in Australia and New Zealand in june.

[Nytunz]

i think the fans objective view on a band is important.. just as important for the band then the fans.
You can like a band, and think they make bad moves, you can like a band, and think they replaced a musican
with wrong man. You can like a band, and still think one of theyr songs sucks.. Its important to remain objectiv.
But whats going on in the "inner circle" in the GnR camp. No one on this board actually knows.

I think its ok for people to say: """""I think Tommy could be replaced""""" or things like that. But you cant change the fact
that they are not doing it. Coz im pretty sure, the more people complaine about it, the more the band stand by its choise.

Objective is good. Bud judging by no inside information is just plain stupid. I really repsect GnR`s choise to postphone the tour
and think its ok. I may have fellt abit different if they canceled in Norway, but thats not my point of view right no.

They could replace Tommy? We actually dont know that. Maybe they could, or maybe there were some things that made it difficult..

[gnfnr2006]

i think the fans objective view on a band is important.. just as important for the band then the fans.
You can like a band, and think they make bad moves, you can like a band, and think they replaced a musican
with wrong man. You can like a band, and still think one of theyr songs sucks.. Its important to remain objectiv.
But whats going on in the "inner circle" in the GnR camp. No one on this board actually knows.

I think its ok for people to say: """""I think Tommy could be replaced""""" or things like that. But you cant change the fact
that they are not doing it. Coz im pretty sure, the more people complaine about it, the more the band stand by its choise.

Objective is good. Bud judging by no inside information is just plain stupid. I really repsect GnR`s choise to postphone the tour
and think its ok. I may have fellt abit different if they canceled in Norway, but thats not my point of view right no.

They could replace Tommy? We actually dont know that. Maybe they could, or maybe there were some things that made it difficult..

AXL IS being selfish !! For him or someone in the GNR camp to tell some people that they are not attenging the SA shows, but then they tell the fans, whove spent their hard earned money to see them, that they ARE going to be there, that IS SELFISH and CHILDISH.   GROW UP, GROW SOME BALLS, AND HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR THE PEOPLE THAT PAY YOUR FUCKN BILLS !!!!


What would you call it Jarmo?

[Meanmachine22]

you can see it from different angles:

You can say the band really cares about their members and about the "unity". And all guys in GNR didn't feel it would be right to play without "the  General" because he is one of the key members of GNR.... So they decided to cancel the first couple of gigs.

You can also say to play bass is not rocket science and it would have been very easy to replace Tommy for some shows. That way they would not have been slaughtered by us once again....

Personally i think that the "injury" was a good way for Axl to gap even more time for all the silly issues surrounding the album.
Since Axl is the cpt. of the boat GNR one really need to begin to wonder if he's totaly clear in mind.

I really love GNR but it seems that Axl is desperately searching for that one hole in the ground and falls in just to make it harder for him.
Axl is totally digging a grave to the name GNR and his own legacy. Every day that passes without a release date the grave gets nearer to completition.

It is almost fucking may now and where is the album? I don't see any sense in starting the 4th or 5th leg of the CHINESE DEMOCRACY world tour without an album.

It is not a tragedy that these shows were cancelled. No big deal.It doesn't matter if they start the tour a little later due to WHATEVER reason....
What really bothers  me is this silence and the growing thought that this is all about collecting money...

[babydolls]

axl aside, tommy is the most important person in this band.

he is in charge of the rehearsals, and acts as a sort of 'conductor' for the whole band.

also, would a replacement bassist realistically be able to learn all of the songs in a week? i don't think so.

ok, so you may say bumble learnt the songs in a week, but 3rd guitarist is hardly as vital as the sole bass player.

Robin is far more important than Tommy.

The truth is, nobody but Axl is really important.? If they quit the band, The GNR Machine would just replace them, like they've replaced every other member of the band, over and over again.

Since nobody bought a ticket for GNR because of Tommy Stinson, it seems incredibly selfish of the band to screw over all thier fans rather than just find a temp replacement.? They wouldn't have to look far... Not only has Pitman filled in on bass before, but they have THREE other guitar players playing songs that only require two guitarists.

 

It's a small point - but a friend of mine came to two Guns shows last year on the sole basis of seeing Tommy Stinson live.  He's a huge fan of him and had a ball, though not the biggest GnR fan - the show was his chance to see a favourite musician live. I understand why people think that Tommy could be replaced for a few shows - but none of us are in the position to make that decision - seeing as we're not in a band with the guy.  How would you feel if it was Pitman instead of Tommy at the mo?? Btw, am not poking - just interested.

[MotherGooseLuvR]

you can see it from different angles:

You can say the band really cares about their members and about the "unity". And all guys in GNR didn't feel it would be right to play without "the? General" because he is one of the key members of GNR.... So they decided to cancel the first couple of gigs.

That might very well be the case.

But you know what?  I don't think that's a good enough excuse. 

I don't doubt Tommy is a huge asset to the band, and that they'd miss him dearly if he wasn't able to play.

But the choice to cancel those shows is one that benefits -- AT THE ABSOLUTE MOST -- the seven (or eight) people in the band.  On the other hand, it disappoints TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TICKET HOLDERS.  In several countries.  People who have been disappointed by Axl over and over again for a decade and a half now.

They might have wanted to play with Tommy.  But in this instance, I really think it would have been wiser for the band to suck it up, and make a choice with their fans' best interest in mind.

GNR already has a reputation for cancelling shows.  This is not a good business move.

[ibelieveinaxl]

im just curious.....as far as i know the s. africa shows are off, but according to the news section and the tour section of this site, the shows are happening....if the shows are off, take it off the tour section and put up a news article so fans dont get confused...........

[MotherGooseLuvR]

EXCELLENT POINT!

That's one I've been making since they first announced they'd quit a bunch of concerts.

It's just baffling why GNR is continuing to pretend like they'll "honor" their two South African concerts. 

I can't figure out if there's some reason why they don't want to admit they've pulled out, if they're just too lazy to type up a couple of sentences on their website, or if it's just Axl being crazy again.

I do wish GNR's website would be used for more than unloading surpluss GNR Brand Beach Towels that have been sitting in a warehouse somewhere since the mid 90's.

[gnfnr2006]

^^^^ the towels !!!?
The site is for making $ only. Cant everyone see it? The tour was an ADMITTED cash grab. Axl even SOLD the GNR catalog to Merck/Sanctuary !!!? There is ALOT more goin on than what we can see. But again, the only point of the site is to filter people to the GNR shop- cause AXl needs the $$
Anyone that cant see that Axl is in SERIOUS financial trouble is either in denail or niave, or both. Cmon guys, open your eyes !

[Danny]

The point of ALL band websites is to make money.  When they announce tourdates on a website, it's so people will buy tickets.  When they announce album releases, it's so people will buy albums.