Madagascar

[D]

falcon i dont know how u came to two conclusions

1. how is madagascar a power ballad?

by definition its not, maddy has no big guitar solo and its not a power ballad not even close


2. what evidence do u have that kroq and modern rock wont embrace gnr?

i hate to break it to u but if chinese democracy is ever released their first single will receive massive amounts of airplay from radio everywhere

and please dont give me the "oh my god" argument not doing well on modern rock radio
oh my god is nothing to compare what chinese democracy is going to sound like on, if u wanna really get technical oh my god wasnt a gnr song but a axl solo song

just look at the list of players, how many of those guys are in gnr? exactly!

time will tell but i dont think anyone can say that GNR wont get played on certain formats especially when we havent heard anything

it comes down to this

if the songs fit into modern rock format,  if they are great they will be played, simple as that!

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Chinese democracy would be played on modern rock stations.
And to be honest even if modern rock does not touch  gnr, who really cares, those stations are big into stuff like nickel back, puddle of mudd and linken park.

IMO Chinese Democracy should get a chance at modern rock outlets, but it won't.  It's not just the music anymore, it's the perception.  

Example, let's say "Slither" was recorded by Aerosmith, do you think modern rock would touch it?  Absolutely not.

As for "who really cares", here's a few:  

Record labels
MTV
Concert promotors
Young listeners
Program directors
DJ's

Just a few...

Well as for your list.
MTV is going to play the new gnr and that is a fact. Why else do you think they let Gnr headline the VMAs a few  years ago.
Young listenrs listen to gnr, case and point look at the sales of the GHs album. The day it  came out I saw quite a few kids under 20 buying the album.

As for record labels, DJs and concert promoters.
As axl and tommy has said, this album is a melting pot, and there are a lot of different kind of songs on here, some pop, some hard like afd and some new style like cd and riyadh.  I could see a song like the blues being played on a pop station, cd and riyadh would be played on modern rock stations and then the rock stations would play everything since they are gnr.

Also here in boston two of the biggest rock stations WAAF and WBCN both are rock stations. WBCN used to play modern rock  but have now changed to playing bands like gnr, aerosmith, zepplin, vh and ac dc again.

I know you dont think gnr will be played on modern rock stations but they will be if the album is good

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I wouldn't discount the ballads.  Lots of people love a good ballad...not just girls!  I've gotten some cds just because I loved the ballad type song I heard on the radio and wanted to hear more from the artist.  

I agree, i got the powder finger album for my happiness (a ballad) and then found out the rest of the album was really good too.

[TyRod Tulip]

Also here in boston two of the biggest rock stations WAAF and WBCN both are rock stations.

I live in the Boston area too.  Both of those stations will definately play nuGNR.  They both play oldGNR all the time as it is now.  And I can't turn WBCN on lately without hearing Slither.  It gets played about 8 times every 12 hours.  They will give nuGNR as much or more play than VR.  I would say that both of those station play a mix of modern rock and classic rock.  BTW, we are lucky in this part of the country, if you like R&R, to have two of the best station for that genre.  JMO.

-TyRod-  

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I started listening to WBCN more now because they are playing older stuff again.
I wonder why they made the change away from just nu metal/modern rock

[TyRod Tulip]

I started listening to WBCN more now because they are playing older stuff again.
I wonder why they made the change away from just nu metal/modern rock

Probably beacuse they were getting killed by WAAF in the afternoons and evenings (non-Stern time).  I'm not sure of that, but its my best guess.

-TyRod-

[Axl4Prez2004]

  I'm sorry, but wanting AFD 2004 is pretty sad.  It would be like a music fan in 1970 wanting the Beatles to make music like I Wanna Hold Your Hand again.  It aint gonna happen, and we really shouldn't want that to happen.  Music is art, and art evolves.

  The Blues and Maddy are 2 of the best songs I've heard by any band in the last 10 years.    

Axl4Prez2004

[darkmonth]

Evolving doesn't have to mean changing style...

in fact, evolving could mean just making new riffs... because new riffs are new... and evolving is newness.

Fact is, some people arent interested in the new style of music that Axl has gone with... it aint the same as Guns N' Roses.  It ain't even the same genre... None of Axl's songs so far are rock songs... CD is NOT a rock song in the normal sense.  It's a very basic alt. rock song with no ground in Guns N' Roses.  Personally I don't like it at all, but maybe it's to evolved for me

Does evolved mean simple to you?  Coz all of Axl's new songs are 4 chord ditties with very little involved in them musically....  (yep, I am serious... and I play instruments so I know I am right).

Oh well

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Evolving doesn't have to mean changing style...

in fact, evolving could mean just making new riffs... because new riffs are new... and evolving is newness.

Fact is, some people arent interested in the new style of music that Axl has gone with... it aint the same as Guns N' Roses.  It ain't even the same genre... None of Axl's songs so far are rock songs... CD is NOT a rock song in the normal sense.  It's a very basic alt. rock song with no ground in Guns N' Roses.  Personally I don't like it at all, but maybe it's to evolved for me

Does evolved mean simple to you?  Coz all of Axl's new songs are 4 chord ditties with very little involved in them musically....  (yep, I am serious... and I play instruments so I know I am right).

Oh well

Look at the beatles from their first album to stg peppers.
Axl always wanted every album he makes to be different from the last, there is nothing wrong with that and shows growth.  As for all axls new songs being 4 chord ditties I guess you are not listening to the same songs as the rest of us because I hear a lot more than just four chords.  

Just take the blues for example, that is a classic blues type song, and I hear a lot more than 4 chords.  Another song, riyadh, you really think that song only has 4 chords?

I don't know how you can say a song like madagascar is not progressing, just listen to all that is going on in that song.

I think you need to go  back to music class.

[HoldenCaulfield]

The song is obviously supposed to be a deep song that conveys a message, and it succeeds on so many levels. The lyrics are heart-wrenching, the music is chill-bump-inducing, and the section with the quotes and solo is something akin to magic. It's a shame that a lot of people see it as just a bunch of jumbled sound clips from movies, but I think it will definitely become imbeded over a long time. Most amazing song ever, IMO.

[Falcon]

I understand why some feel so close to Maddy, it obviously touches some kind of chord with the listener who digs the "heart on your sleave" type of lyrical content.

Nothing wrong with that...

That said, to portray it in any kind of musical evolution is downright  absurd.  

I swear on a stack of Sex Pistols records I knew exactly
what was coming next the first time I heard the song.  It is an absolute formula power ballad, from the organ intro to the synth laden background noise to the weeping guitar.

I know, I know, the quotes tell a story, yadda yadda..

I'm baffled that more haven't stressed their discomfort with the MLK interlude.  I mean for the love of God, trivializing MLK quotes with movie lines is borderline offensive, no matter what story is told.  Isn't there also a redux of the Civil War intro somewhere in there? Recycling your previous work is hardly an evolution.  At least plagiarizing someone else can be considered a product of influence, paying an homage if you will....

One more point, progression can not in any way, shape or form be measured in a way that's defined by "there's alot going on in that song".  That's just not a very analytical way to characterize anything, let alone the thought of perceived musical evolution.

Again, I understand why some do enjoy the tune, the same folks who love NR and Don't Cry are probably drawn to Maddy as well.  Neither of those 2 tunes ahead of their time in 1991 by any stretch, both closer to Elton John. As for the ladder, it's closer to...well...Elton John.  

13 years later.  

[jabba2]

About the original topic... i cant make out any of the Madagascar quotes, even when i adjust the equalizer to speech mode. Can someone post what the quotes are in the song? In the exact order, so me and other fans can make out this mysterious message Axl is trying to say. If the qoutes do add up to some kind of long sentence that make sense, that would be interesting, but i cant detect any of the words in the background.

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I'm gonna tell you a story
(FBI Agent Monk (portrayed by Badja Djola), Chapter 35-A Razor Sharp
Confession-1:40:06; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo)


Stand up for righteousness!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

What?
(Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke,
1967; written by Donn Pearce)

Stand up for justice!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

What?
(Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke,
1967; written by Donn Pearce)

Stand up for truth!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

How can a person grow up with all this around them?
(Detective William Somerset (portrayed by Morgan Freeman), Chapter 19;
Se7en, 1995; written by Andrew Kevin Walker)

You got to call on that something
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

Where does it come from?
(FBI Agent Alan Ward (portrayed by Willem Dafoe), Chapter 6-"where does
it come from, all this hatred?"-00:20:25; Mississippi Burning, 1988;
written by Chris Gerolmo)

That can make a way out of no way
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

All this hatred?
(FBI Agent Alan Ward (portrayed by Willem Dafoe), Chapter 6-"where does
it come from, all this hatred?"-00:20:25; Mississippi Burning, 1988;
written by Chris Gerolmo)

What we've got here is..
(Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke,
1967; written by Donn Pearce)

Fear!
(Detective William Somerset (portrayed by Morgan Freeman), Chapter 19;
Se7en, 1995; written by Andrew Kevin Walker)

That power that can make a way out of now no way
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

Failure to communicate
(Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke,
1967; written by Donn Pearce)

I tell ya I seen the lightning...I've heard the thunder roll!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

Everybody's acting like we can do anything and it don't matter what we
do. Maybe we gotta be extra careful because maybe it matters more than
we even know..
(Private Eriksson (portrayed by Michael J. Fox), Casualties of War,
1989; written by Daniel Lang)

Sometimes...
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

Hatred isn't somethin' you're born with
(Mrs. Pell (portrayed by Frances McDormand); Chapter 29-Mrs. Pell Gives
the Vital Information-- 1:29:22; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by
Chris Gerolmo)

I feel discouraged
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

It gets taught
(Mrs. Pell (portrayed by Frances McDormand); Chapter 29-Mrs. Pell Gives
the Vital Information-1:29:22; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by
Chris Gerolmo)

Sometimes I feel discouraged
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

I felt this fear
(Detective William Somerset (portrayed by Morgan Freeman), Chapter 19
Se7en, 1995; written by Andrew Kevin Walker)

He promised never to leave me, never to leave me alone, no never alone,
no never alone!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

Let's get something straight, alright?
(Agent Rupert Anderson (portrayed by Gene Hackman), Chapter 27-- Ward
and Anderson's Frustration -1:24:58; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written
by Chris Gerolmo)

Promised never to leave me!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

This whole thing was fucked up
(Agent Rupert Anderson (portrayed by Gene Hackman), Chapter 27-- Ward
and Anderson's Frustration -1:24:58; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written
by Chris Gerolmo)

Never to leave me alone!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

All men betray. All lose heart!
(The Leper / Robert the 16th Earl of Bruce (portrayed by Ian Bannen),
speaking to his son, Robert the 17th Earl of Bruce in a scene concerning
the betrayal Robert the 17th Earl of Bruce committed toward William
Wallace; Chapter 15-Lands of Death-2:13:57; Braveheart, 1995; written by
Randall Wallace)

I don't want to lose heart!...I want to believe
(Robert the 17th Earl of Bruce, (portrayed by Angus McFadyen) responding
to his father (The Leper / Robert the 16th Earl of Bruce)'s nonchalant
attitude toward betrayal; Chapter 15-Lands of Death-2:14:02; Braveheart,
1995; written by Randall Wallace)

Black men and white men
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote
speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August
1963; written by Julian Bond)

Together at the table of brotherhood!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote
speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August
1963; written by Julian Bond)

I have a dream
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote
speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August
1963; written by Julian Bond)

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God almighty!! WE ARE FREE AT LAST!!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote
speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August
1963; written by Julian Bond)


Samples transcribed by chindem

[D]

falcon u have made it clear in every thread that slower ballad type songs arent your cup of tea, i can understand someone who doesnt like that sorta style not digging maddy but to look at the progression from dont cry to maddy is quite remarkable in my opinion, madagascar sounds like nothing thats already been out and thats where axl wins over VR


4 months ago when we learned that VR were putting out a cd we all had opinions

and most people said the same thing i said

VR will put out a strong rock n roll record, good album nothing groundbreaking or new whereas axl will put out something classic and will be around 20 years from now


we were dead on the money with the VR prediction

CD remains to be seen

but i love the fact axl is being ambition

it would be stupid for him to try and make an AFD type record when the original creators of that arent around

this is a new band new style and its gonna kick as much ass as afd just on a different level and in a different way

[dave-gnfnr2k]

Here it is with out the places they are from.


I'm gonna tell you a story

Stand up for righteousness!
What?
Stand up for justice!
What?
Stand up for truth
You got to call on that something

Where does it come from?
That can make a way out of no way
All this hatred?
What we've got here is..
Fear!
That power that can make a way out of now no way
Failure to communicate
I tell ya I seen the lightning...I've heard the thunder roll!
Everybody's acting like we can do anything and it don't matter what we
do. Maybe we gotta be extra careful because maybe it matters more than
we even know..
 Sometimes...
Hatred isn't somethin' you're born with
I feel discouraged
It gets taught
Sometimes I feel discouraged
I felt this fear
He promised never to leave me, never to leave me alone, no never alone,
no never alone!
Let's get something straight, alright?
Promised never to leave me!
This whole thing was fucked up
Never to leave me alone!
 All men betray. All lose heart!
I don't want to lose heart!...I want to believe
Black men and white men
Together at the table of brotherhood!
I have a dream
Free at last! Free at last!

[jabba2]

Thx that is interesting...i dont see an obvious connection yet. Ill listen a couple more times and let this sink in.

[D]

axl is an amazing twisted sick genius

read those fuckin quotes like dave so greatly printed

anyone tell me those arent fuckin amazing

and how someone in their mind thought to do something like that is just unbelievable and i cant put into words how creative and a genius u would have to be to figure something like that out

cmon, everyone, that is so powerful and the way he did it so ingenius

please for once everyone give axl some mad love and props for that

even the haters have to recognize the genius and power of that

reading that fuckin truly moved me


promise never to leave u

holy shit!

[Falcon]

falcon u have made it clear in every thread that slower ballad type songs arent your cup of tea, i can understand someone who doesnt like that sorta style not digging maddy but to look at the progression from dont cry to maddy is quite remarkable in my opinion

No problem D, that's your opinion.  

However, my feelings toward to genre hardly cloud my thought concerning any musical progression.  I'm not into hair metal either, but I'm objective enough to know Bon Jovi is higher on the food chain than Winger.  

Just curious, in your opinion, what separates Maddy from NR or Don't Cry?

The quotes are not an acceptable answer, musically, what separates it?

madagascar sounds like nothing thats already been out and thats where axl wins over VR

I never mentioned VR...

[badgirl]

I'm baffled that more haven't stressed their discomfort with the MLK interlude.  I mean for the love of God, trivializing MLK quotes with movie lines is borderline offensive, no matter what story is told.  Isn't there also a redux of the Civil War intro somewhere in there? Recycling your previous work is hardly an evolution.  At least plagiarizing someone else can be considered a product of influence, paying an homage if you will....

i absolutely agree with this. Though i do like the song A LOT, i think a lot of the quotes are cheesy and self-important (in the respect that the influence of Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement should not be trivialized in any song like that). i certainly don't expect many people to agree with this though.  

[dave-gnfnr2k]

I'm baffled that more haven't stressed their discomfort with the MLK interlude.  I mean for the love of God, trivializing MLK quotes with movie lines is borderline offensive, no matter what story is told.  Isn't there also a redux of the Civil War intro somewhere in there? Recycling your previous work is hardly an evolution.  At least plagiarizing someone else can be considered a product of influence, paying an homage if you will....

i absolutely agree with this. Though i do like the song A LOT, i think a lot of the quotes are cheesy and self-important (in the respect that the influence of Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement should not be trivialized in any song like that). i certainly don't expect many people to agree with this though.  

Living colour used MLK new clips in one of their songs years ago along with JKF, so was that wrong too?