Madagascar

[spiderman]

i just happend to listen to estranged and madagasca back to back the other day and it hit me. do you think madagar is an intended sequel to estranged? some of the lyrics in estranged include lines like "i knew the storm was getting closer.." and "well i jumped into the river too many times to make it home..." while madagascar features lyrics like "i wont be told anymore, that ive been brought down in this storm, and left so far from the shore, and i cant find my way back..." the similarity between the two songs is so obviouse i cant believe i hadnt noticed earlier. so what do you think. just coincidence...

[kujo722]

Its a good possibility. However only one person knows for sure, and he's not saying too much of anything right now.

[Evil Ash]

damn, this would've been a damn good question to ask Axl!

[badgirl]

i just happend to listen to estranged and madagasca back to back the other day and it hit me. do you think madagar is an intended sequel to estranged? some of the lyrics in estranged include lines like "i knew the storm was getting closer.." and "well i jumped into the river too many times to make it home..." while madagascar features lyrics like "i wont be told anymore, that ive been brought down in this storm, and left so far from the shore, and i cant find my way back..." the similarity between the two songs is so obviouse i cant believe i hadnt noticed earlier. so what do you think. just coincidence...

the "storm" image is quite common. water, storms, the elements are sort of staples of any writer (especially Axl who incorporates them often in his songs/videos) as they are easily identified as emotional experiences. they are not terribly original either. Estranged is a song about emotional destruction, a very common theme. I suspect Madagascar is well, so they are similar thematically, but i wouldn't say that one is a sequel or that they need to be related in that way. All Axl's ballad songs are related, they are all about love and loss.

[bolton]

i just happend to listen to estranged and madagasca back to back the other day and it hit me. do you think madagar is an intended sequel to estranged? some of the lyrics in estranged include lines like "i knew the storm was getting closer.." and "well i jumped into the river too many times to make it home..." while madagascar features lyrics like "i wont be told anymore, that ive been brought down in this storm, and left so far from the shore, and i cant find my way back..." the similarity between the two songs is so obviouse i cant believe i hadnt noticed earlier. so what do you think. just coincidence...

the "storm" image is quite common. water, storms, the elements are sort of staples of any writer (especially Axl who incorporates them often in his songs/videos) as they are easily identified as emotional experiences. they are not terribly original either. Estranged is a song about emotional destruction, a very common theme. I suspect Madagascar is well, so they are similar thematically, but i wouldn't say that one is a sequel or that they need to be related in that way. All Axl's ballad songs are related, they are all about love and loss.

i like madagascar,and i think that song have more potencional than estranged(estranged is better song,but estranged is too long),and both songs talking about axls fellings

[Reinaldo]

Although both songs have the word "storm", which means some kind of emotional pain in both of them, I think the subjects are different.

Estranged, as Axl said in the making of the video, is a song about a love desilusion and how he used to deal with it. It?s a sequel to November Rain (not only to the video, but to the song too).

Madagascar seems to be about freedom. 2 possibilities:
1- it?s a political song about african countries (like Madagascar), which is tottally possible since Axl reads books and watches many movies on those subjects (on Vegas 01 he said the song Chinese Democracy was inspired by the movie "Kundun"). Also, it has the strongest Luther King?s quotes and some movie quotes, one of them already used in Civil War, a political song.
2- it?s a metaphore about the old band.

Considering the lyrics, I think "The Blues" fits better as a sequel to Estranged: It?s also about a love that was not corresponded. This time specificaly about Stephanie (on the boston video, take a look at the images of a brunette?s blue eyes by the end of the song).

[Fuckin' Gunner]

Although both songs have the word "storm", which means some kind of emotional pain in both of them, I think the subjects are different.

Madagascar seems to be about freedom. 2 possibilities:
1- it?s a political song about african countries (like Madagascar), which is tottally possible since Axl reads books and watches many movies on those subjects (on Vegas 01 he said the song Chinese Democracy was inspired by the movie "Kundun"). Also, it has the strongest Luther King?s quotes and some movie quotes, one of them already used in Civil War, a political song.

2- it?s a metaphore about the old band.

I agree with everything expect the seconf one. I don't rthink he will make songs (maybe one, no more than one) about the old band. If you look to Illusions, you'll see lots of lyrics that if was from Chinese Democracy you would think about the old band...

I think a big possibility is this song being about slavery.

Another one is about isolation. Madagascar, the island, was a part of Africa that "divorced" from the continent and started a new life, alone, developing its life independantly from the rest of the world. Like Axl did.

[Reinaldo]

Madagascar, the island, was a part of Africa that "divorced" from the continent and started a new life, alone, developing its life independantly from the rest of the world. Like Axl did.

That's what I was meanning, F.Gunner... Axl is free of the chains that held him together with the old band...

at least on the song.. let?s hope those law suits end soon.

[badgirl]

"Madagascar", for me it's a song about isolation, letting go and forgiveness, a new beginning maybe, moving on...that's what I get out of the lyrics. I have no  idea if that's what Axl wanted to say, but I like the song.

But I prefer "Estranged", because it's less...I don't know, it's a little pretentious maybe, but in a good way. "Madagascar" is too much of an art piece for me, it sounds as there was a lot of thinking involved, and maybe too much thinking. "Estranged" is more direct, it hits you pretty hard and directly on the emotional level. "Madgascar" doesn't, it's like watching a movie, but not because of the quotes.

Maybe that also says something about the creation process. Maybe the old songs were put together more by instinct, the new ones with a little more intention. I don't know, but that's the impression I get. They could be connected somehow, but unless the mighty creator of these beautiful songs speaks out, we can only guess.  

You know what, i totally know what you mean, and it is very hard to explain (though i think you did a good job). Madagascar is my absolute favorite new song but i absolutely see what you are saying about it being somewhat inaccessible (i think it has to do with all the quotes in the middle, however much i like them and think they do contribute to the song). It's also more obscure and symbolic than Estranged is, which is, like you pointed out, quite straightforward.


Reinaldo- i never knew that about the brown hair/blue eyes thing. interesting..
While i agree that the Blues fits, lyrically, better with Estranged, don't you concur that all of Axl's love songs fall under the same thematic/lyrical umbrella so its really don't appropriate to say that one is a sequel/prequel to another?

[Slashly]

Wow, just listen Estranged and then Madagascar, they are very similar.Maybie Axl heard Estranged for about 56 ours and then he wrote Madagascar,dunno.But it?s a strong posibility that its a sequel

Baby Slash//

[Reinaldo]

Reinaldo- i never knew that about the brown hair/blue eyes thing. interesting..
While i agree that the Blues fits, lyrically, better with Estranged, don't you concur that all of Axl's love songs fall under the same thematic/lyrical umbrella so its really don't appropriate to say that one is a sequel/prequel to another?

Yes, I agree with you. "Sequel" was just the word I (and bucketface, before me) ended up using to say two songs are similar on their styles, lyrics, subjects and feeleings... it's not necessarily a continuation.

Although Axl has other love songs, I think that, for the reasons above, Estranged and The Blues are very close to each other in some way.

The same thing doesn't happen to November Rain, Don't Cry, Patience nor Madagascar.

 

[spiderman]

i know sometimes people take the piss out of my posts but... hey, you know im right....  gnr past 1991 songs are very negative... lets face it... new gnn.. coming back to life!! very  pink floyd??? but i think they are... gnr are back?!... old gnr=negative,
new gnr= poisitive (its coming, i can feel it in my bones)

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

i just happend to listen to estranged and madagasca back to back the other day and it hit me. do you think madagar is an intended sequel to estranged? some of the lyrics in estranged include lines like "i knew the storm was getting closer.." and "well i jumped into the river too many times to make it home..." while madagascar features lyrics like "i wont be told anymore, that ive been brought down in this storm, and left so far from the shore, and i cant find my way back..." the similarity between the two songs is so obviouse i cant believe i hadnt noticed earlier. so what do you think. just coincidence...

 Very cool observation... and despite the commanility of certain imagery you did well to point to specific correlations and further, how the latter addresses and expresses resolution to issues expressed in the earlier work.    

if you're interested in reviewing my interpretation of the quotes section in madagascar check out my post in this thread:  http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=4519;start=msg77778#msg77778

[D]

i cringe everytime someone says "i love maddy but i hate martin luther king quotes"

there are what 2 or 3 mlk quotes?

but all people remember is the mlk shit and it pisses me off

that song is an ingenius work of art

the quotes tell a story, the quotes arent there for shits and giggles they have a meaning, and i think its an awesome innovative way to express a song that no one has ever done b4, take a bunch of different quotes, put them together in a way that tells a story'

no wonder its taking axl so long to record CD

u have any clue how long it must have took to find all those quotes and piece them together like that?

i bet that took a long ass time just for that

i think axl is taking extra special care of each song and is making sure each one has brilliant ideas, instead of making half a dozen kick ass songs and putting good but filler tracks for the rest of the album

Maddy especially the MSG version is an unbelievable amazing song that is highly under rated and under appreciated by all GNR fans cause they cant get past the "MLK" quotes

[littleredcorvette]

I couldn't have said it better, you are SO right.

NewGnR.com did a deconstruct of all the quotes, where they came from and what they possibly mean alone and in context originally and in the song and it's like, Axl thought more about that one song then VR have about their whole album. Which isn't a criticism of their methods, just another reason to get off Axl's back.

And Madagascar was finished, i assume, before the House of Blues and isn't considered single material, which almost seems absure. So just imagine what he's come up with in the meantime.

If he does things right, he can once again be seen as a great all time legend of rock, and not someone from the past, a dinosaur, because Madagascar and The Blues eclipse almost everything else these days.

Incidentally, I see you're a Jahnny Beee fan. I think Something To Believe In is one of the most underrated songs. Shame he can't sing it properly anymore tho.

[bolton]

i cringe everytime someone says "i love maddy but i hate martin luther king quotes"

there are what 2 or 3 mlk quotes?

but all people remember is the mlk shit and it pisses me off

that song is an ingenius work of art

the quotes tell a story, the quotes arent there for shits and giggles they have a meaning, and i think its an awesome innovative way to express a song that no one has ever done b4, take a bunch of different quotes, put them together in a way that tells a story'

no wonder its taking axl so long to record CD

u have any clue how long it must have took to find all those quotes and piece them together like that?

i bet that took a long ass time just for that

i think axl is taking extra special care of each song and is making sure each one has brilliant ideas, instead of making half a dozen kick ass songs and putting good but filler tracks for the rest of the album

Maddy especially the MSG version is an unbelievable amazing song that is highly under rated and under appreciated by all GNR fans cause they cant get past the "MLK" quotes

agrre with you man,madagascar is amazing song.
and lyrics are the deepest lyrics which i ever heard

[spiderman]

u have any clue how long it must have took to find all those quotes and piece them together like that?

er....id say about 7 or 8 years....

[spiderman]

i know sometimes people take the piss out of my posts but... hey, you know im right....  gnr past 1991 songs are very negative... lets face it... new gnn.. coming back to life!! very  pink floyd??? but i think they are... gnr are back?!... old gnr=negative,
new gnr= poisitive (its coming, i can feel it in my bones)

sorry... i was a bit drunk when i sent that........

[Booker Floyd]

Madagascar seems to be about freedom. 2 possibilities:
1- it?s a political song about african countries (like Madagascar), which is tottally possible since Axl reads books and watches many movies on those subjects (on Vegas 01 he said the song Chinese Democracy was inspired by the movie "Kundun"). Also, it has the strongest Luther King?s quotes and some movie quotes, one of them already used in Civil War, a political song.

 

Please detail any political meaning this song could possibly have.

Martin Luther King quotes do not make a song "political".  

Does anybody else find the quotes, especially the MLK ones, more than a little pretentious?  I dont think Id miss the quotes if they they were omitted from the studio version - In fact, Id probably prefer an epic guitar solo.  

[Jim]

Maddy especially the MSG version is an unbelievable amazing song that is highly under rated and under appreciated by all GNR fans cause they cant get past the "MLK" quotes

Now buddy, that's a bit of a generalization don't you think?

On this board...I can't actually remember many people at all finding fault with the quotes.

We did a deconstruction over here on the old board, I wish that we still had the thread, it's a very layered song and one of the best I've heard in the last few years.