VR: April 27 in LA

[SADIS]

It's inevitable either way, I would expect Slash gets a mention by fans at any and every GNR/Axl related event as well.

Apparently not, according to Jarmo.?

Booker, Booker, Booker.....

There's a difference of having a show full with contest winners that's being taped to be streamed and an arena show filled with people who paid to get in.


People yelling "Slash!" at a GN'R show is different to some guy yelling "do an Axl".....



They had to try to put down Axl at a VR show.?

Now, if people were yelling "Slash is a liar!" at GN'R shows, then you'd have a point.....




/jarmo

You seem to really take this GnR vs VR thing very personal, don't you?

You almost seem like someone who feels a little depressed when his favorite artist gets attacked. As if your feelings are hurt when someone treats Axl unfair.?

It's unfair, they are big and I am small.

[jarmo]

Booker, you're quoting and breaking down the post line by line, but I've yet to see you address whether or not the Axl mention at this show was necessary.

You say it happens, but you didn't say if you think it was stupid or if you actually thought it was the coolest thing.


Also, you didn't comment on whether or not it's a different thing, to go to a show and put down the band on stage by yelling for former members, than to put down a person to make the band on stage look better.





/jarmo

[Ines_rocks!]

I don?t understand why now, since VR started touring, all VR threads end up like this... people discussing things so off-topic and pointless instead of discussing what really matters... the shows, the new songs... seems to me that some guys ain?t too happy with their favourite band and come here to start stupid discussions as this one. Cmon this ain?t quite fair cos if we do the same in the GnR boards either the posts get deleted or people get negative karma... I just don?t fucking understand why we can?t all get along instead of creating bad environment here on the boards... 

[Booker Floyd]

Booker, you're quoting and breaking down the post line by line, but I've yet to see you address whether or not the Axl mention at this show was necessary.

You say it happens, but you didn't say if you think it was stupid or if you actually thought it was the coolest thing.

You avoid every question asked yet again, yet Im dancing around.

I think it is stupid.  And unlike you, I think it is a bit disrespectful to VR.  Yelling about the singer from the members former band isnt something the band wants.  I also dont know if the comment is as disrespectful to Axl as youre making it seem; if the guy meant "doing an Axl" meant slamming down a non-working microphone, its hardly a scathing putdown.  But maybe he meant something different.

I think its more stupid to go to a new GNR show and yell for Slash...but Im not sure why youve suddenly made whether or not I believe its stupid the issue.  My issue is your negative characterization of the band and its fans based on this.  Had you simply said "That was a stupid thing to do," you wouldnt have gotten a response from me.  But youve yet again used it as an opportunity to make a muted attack on VR.

Also, you didn't comment on whether or not it's a different thing, to go to a show and put down the band on stage by yelling for former members, than to put down a person to make the band on stage look better.

The difference is obviously inherent, but both are obnoxious and both can be made at shows comprised of faithful and casual fans - I still dont see any meaningful difference or the relevance of the inherent one.

[lynn1961]

 

This whole thread has gotten out of hand.......let's all fight about whether Gnr or VR is better or Scott or Axl and blah, blah, blah........who cares? 

[Intercourse]

Booker,
Jarmo now tows the line along with the rest of the GNR alumni; everybody has a price and the GNR management could easily afford Jarmo and his site. He falls in with the rest of the troops whose mantra remains for GNR  ?no bad here folks, so move along?.

In very simple terms, if anyone believes a group of talented and accomplished musicians is happy to write and record music for one album for six to seven years just to see it constantly sidelined, held back or shelved due to the legal and mental issues of its paymaster is frankly deluded. I feel Jarmo has been ordered to ensure the GNR news stays good and the niggling issue of the dilution of the new GNR imprint by the continued existence of VR is addressed by mocking their music and their fans and trivialising their achievements to date.

I admire your willingness to try to highlight HTGTH?s approach to freedom of expression and open forum discussions but I feel you are wasting your time. I am personally very disappointed in Jarmo?s juvenile beatings? about VR, they are a huge drop in standards for him and almost unrecognisable in their childish venom and complete absence of any obvious value.  Where once he hemmed in the more idiotic and extreme posters he has become one, never failing to take that cheap shot when the oppertunity presents itself.

Then again, what do we know about the pressures he may be under from his new bosses. We have our freedom to speak and express opinions, sadly for Jarmo, I think he sold his.

Intercourse.

[Ines_rocks!]

Booker,
Jarmo now tows the line along with the rest of the GNR alumni; everybody has a price and the GNR management could easily afford Jarmo and his site. He falls in with the rest of the troops whose mantra remains for GNR  ?no bad here folks, so move along?.

In very simple terms, if anyone believes a group of talented and accomplished musicians is happy to write and record music for one album for six to seven years just to see it constantly sidelined, held back or shelved due to the legal and mental issues of its paymaster is frankly deluded. I feel Jarmo has been ordered to ensure the GNR news stays good and the niggling issue of the dilution of the new GNR imprint by the continued existence of VR is addressed by mocking their music and their fans and trivialising their achievements to date.

I admire your willingness to try to highlight HTGTH?s approach to freedom of expression and open forum discussions but I feel you are wasting your time. I am personally very disappointed in Jarmo?s juvenile beatings? about VR, they are a huge drop in standards for him and almost unrecognisable in their childish venom and complete absence of any obvious value.  Where once he hemmed in the more idiotic and extreme posters he has become one, never failing to take that cheap shot when the oppertunity presents itself.

Then again, what do we know about the pressures he may be under from his new bosses. We have our freedom to speak and express opinions, sadly for Jarmo, I think he sold his.

Intercourse.

I couldn?t have said it better. 

[Dead Flower]

Booker,
Jarmo now tows the line along with the rest of the GNR alumni; everybody has a price and the GNR management could easily afford Jarmo and his site. He falls in with the rest of the troops whose mantra remains for GNR  ?no bad here folks, so move along?.

In very simple terms, if anyone believes a group of talented and accomplished musicians is happy to write and record music for one album for six to seven years just to see it constantly sidelined, held back or shelved due to the legal and mental issues of its paymaster is frankly deluded. I feel Jarmo has been ordered to ensure the GNR news stays good and the niggling issue of the dilution of the new GNR imprint by the continued existence of VR is addressed by mocking their music and their fans and trivialising their achievements to date.

I admire your willingness to try to highlight HTGTH?s approach to freedom of expression and open forum discussions but I feel you are wasting your time. I am personally very disappointed in Jarmo?s juvenile beatings? about VR, they are a huge drop in standards for him and almost unrecognisable in their childish venom and complete absence of any obvious value.  Where once he hemmed in the more idiotic and extreme posters he has become one, never failing to take that cheap shot when the oppertunity presents itself.

Then again, what do we know about the pressures he may be under from his new bosses. We have our freedom to speak and express opinions, sadly for Jarmo, I think he sold his.

Intercourse.

 

[lynn1961]

Booker,
Jarmo now tows the line along with the rest of the GNR alumni; everybody has a price and the GNR management could easily afford Jarmo and his site. He falls in with the rest of the troops whose mantra remains for GNR? ?no bad here folks, so move along?.

In very simple terms, if anyone believes a group of talented and accomplished musicians is happy to write and record music for one album for six to seven years just to see it constantly sidelined, held back or shelved due to the legal and mental issues of its paymaster is frankly deluded. I feel Jarmo has been ordered to ensure the GNR news stays good and the niggling issue of the dilution of the new GNR imprint by the continued existence of VR is addressed by mocking their music and their fans and trivialising their achievements to date.

I admire your willingness to try to highlight HTGTH?s approach to freedom of expression and open forum discussions but I feel you are wasting your time. I am personally very disappointed in Jarmo?s juvenile beatings? about VR, they are a huge drop in standards for him and almost unrecognisable in their childish venom and complete absence of any obvious value.? Where once he hemmed in the more idiotic and extreme posters he has become one, never failing to take that cheap shot when the oppertunity presents itself.

Then again, what do we know about the pressures he may be under from his new bosses. We have our freedom to speak and express opinions, sadly for Jarmo, I think he sold his.

Intercourse.

that is a very good point

[jarmo]

Booker,
Jarmo now tows the line along with the rest of the GNR alumni; everybody has a price and the GNR management could easily afford Jarmo and his site. He falls in with the rest of the troops whose mantra remains for GNR  ?no bad here folks, so move along?.

In very simple terms, if anyone believes a group of talented and accomplished musicians is happy to write and record music for one album for six to seven years just to see it constantly sidelined, held back or shelved due to the legal and mental issues of its paymaster is frankly deluded. I feel Jarmo has been ordered to ensure the GNR news stays good and the niggling issue of the dilution of the new GNR imprint by the continued existence of VR is addressed by mocking their music and their fans and trivialising their achievements to date.

I admire your willingness to try to highlight HTGTH?s approach to freedom of expression and open forum discussions but I feel you are wasting your time. I am personally very disappointed in Jarmo?s juvenile beatings? about VR, they are a huge drop in standards for him and almost unrecognisable in their childish venom and complete absence of any obvious value.  Where once he hemmed in the more idiotic and extreme posters he has become one, never failing to take that cheap shot when the oppertunity presents itself.

Then again, what do we know about the pressures he may be under from his new bosses. We have our freedom to speak and express opinions, sadly for Jarmo, I think he sold his.

Intercourse.

Unfortunately since you're hiding behind an anonymous username, I can't do anything other than to assume you know shit about what I do. I suspect that's pretty close to the truth.

Just like every other VR fan you think I'm not allowed to voice my opinion because I don't buy the VR "image".


But when Scott Weiland opens his mouth about Axl/GN'R, that's just fine and I should post it on a Guns N' Roses site!


Nothing you say makes any sense if you know the truth, but to you VR fans it's always the easiest to blame "the GN'R management".

While VR was busy fighting among themselves and trying to get ready to record Libertad, GN'R was active. Then when VR is ready to start patting their own back, I just didn't care anymore. We had GN'R.



If I wanted to badmouth VR, I could've posted about how Scott got his clothes torched by his wife in big bold letters and post about how Slash wants to be back in GN'R instead of wasting his time with VR.

That's what the headlines said, GN'R was gonna re-unite because that's what Slash wants!


In case you haven't noticed, I'm not the only one who got tired of VR.





/jarmo

[Intercourse]

Your opening salvo exemplifies to the letter why I am and now remain so disappointed in you. Rather than get into it, I?ll stick with the facts:

Unfortunately since you're hiding behind an anonymous username, I can't do anything other than to assume you know shit about what I do. I suspect that's pretty close to the truth.

Fact 1:
My username is not any attempt to hide anything, as a registered member of HTGTH you have my email address which contains my name so feel free to call me out. Your team has mailed me before so please feel free to do so. What do you think I?m hiding from anyway?

Fact 2:
You?re right; I know shit about what you do. But I do know your forum has lost tons of credibility lately because it has been perceived as having the GNR ?management filter? placed on you and the traffic you govern. Many posters have complained of having mails that contained valid criticisms of Axl and the new GNR rapidly deleted while any material derogatory or scathing of VR is kept pride of place.

Just like every other VR fan you think I'm not allowed to voice my opinion because I don't buy the VR "image".

Fact 3:
Regarding me thinking you are not allowed voice your opinion, that?s just wrong.
My point is that you?ve moved down from issuing well formed opinion and discussion to name calling and sneering which frankly doesn?t suit you. I don?t mind that you don?t buy the VR image, neither do I in many ways.
You appear to use the VR section as a dumping ground for any type of derogatory comment on the band you can muster. That was not you in the past. Many have commented on the change in tone of your output which incidentally started around the time you were supposed to have started working with Axl?s people.? People are putting two and two together...


?But when Scott Weiland opens his mouth about Axl/GN'R, that's just fine and I should post it on a Guns N' Roses site!?

Why not? Forums are supposed to be open houses for discussion. By banning people from issuing news like this you?re just adding to the speculation that you no longer control your own site.

Nothing you say makes any sense if you know the truth, but to you VR fans it's always the easiest to blame "the GN'R management".

Of course I?m making sense, you delete mails that issue valid criticisms of GNR and keep all criticism of VR on show. Many have pointed this out. This only started when you were directly aligned to GNR management. Disagree with me and the many other fans who have been here for years if you like. Plus you call us ?VR fans?,? what were we when we came here and contributed before VR even existed??

While VR was busy fighting among themselves and trying to get ready to record Libertad, GN'R was active.
Fact 4
Yeah, playing twenty year old songs that only one of them had a hand in writing. I could join a pub band and do that next Saturday.
Count how many gigs VR have done since their creation and put that against GNRs output for the last 13 years and we?ll talk again.


?Then when VR is ready to start patting their own back, I just didn't care anymore. We had GN'R.?

Good for you. You had a cover band who played FOUR songs that took them 6 years to air in public. I agree that when they played their own material you had a great band alright. Still, that was about 20 minutes of original material out of a two hour set of nostalgia covers. What ever keeps you happy I suppose.


?If I wanted to badmouth VR, I could've posted about how Scott got his clothes torched by his wife in big bold letters and post about how Slash wants to be back in GN'R instead of wasting his time with VR.?
Again, your new bitchy persona at it?s best because this has nothing to do with my argument with you. It's not even worth addressing. It?s too depressing and reminds me of Dave at his fanatical best (worst).


That's what the headlines said, GN'R was gonna re-unite because that's what Slash wants!

What headlines? Where?


In case you haven't noticed, I'm not the only one who got tired of VR.

Then get rid of this section. You probably won?t because it?s probably all that keeps people coming here. We are into May and still no CD, there?s not much to talk about is there except more nostalgia gigs under the banner of an album that has no release date, fucking bizarre.

VR while not appearing to be giving us the next AFD, are producing material, recording it, releasing it and functioning like a live organic band. All members are very honest about their in-fighting, egos and marriage troubles. All the poor bastards in GNR can say is 'everything is GREAT' when frankly it obviously isn't.

[Smoking Guns]

Based off the few new songs I have been rocking out too, I am now thinking that they are meeting the hype.  SBQM has turned into a bad ass song and Let It Roll reminds me of "Rocks Off or Rip this Joint"  both from the stones, both off of Exile on Main Street.  Funny huh.  I think VR's fan base will only grow with this new album!  I am so excited, can't wait to see video from this clip.

[Booker Floyd]

If I wanted to badmouth VR, I could've posted about how Scott got his clothes torched by his wife in big bold letters 

And thats essentially what youve done, as you changed the title of a thread created by somebody else to draw attention to that event and have since mentioned it in unrelated threads several times.  So is bringing it up again in this one supposed to be clever? 
 

In case you haven't noticed, I'm not the only one who got tired of VR.

Most of us have been noticing it since at least 2004, when you were subtler about it and apparently disingenuous enough to argue otherwise. 

Yeah, I really dislike them don't I? Seen them live five times by now.

Your negativity in this section is certainly nothing new, but its now underlined with more bitterness and a seeming determination to spoil otherwise positive discussions.  Ive pointed out before that I find this attitude odd coming from somebody who detests negativity in the GNR section.  Your response as I interpreted it - that this is a GNR site and the VR section is essentially a place for GNR fans to criticize Scott Weiland, Slash and Matt Sorum - is as specious as some of the other arguments youve been making in this section.  And it makes me wonder why you bother participating in it.  Yes, youre free to say what you want - thats not the issue.  The issue is why.  If you dont care about this band; and theres so many great things going on with GNR; and youve made your point countless times; and you know that your incessant negativity just leads to these discussuions that eventually get threads locked; why not just ignore it?  Youve already implied that you often ignore this section, so why bother posting in it?  Why not focus on all of the positive GNR things that are going on?

And why try to childishly divide this sites members when its "VR fans" are also fans of GNR, past and present?  Is a fan of the new GNR and VR a villianous "VR fan" by virtue of liking that band as well?

[jarmo]

Why do I participate?

Because two-three VR fans keep bringing up "points" about the site that make no fucking sense.

I get questioned why I do things and even after I tell the truth, some of these clowns keep making up their own stories which are based on their own imagination.

Because I see a band saying one thing and then letting their record company do whatever they want.

The same fans who drool over VR being a "real rock n' roll band" are upset because Axl won't go on stage at 9PM pr because they won't replace Tommy while he's injured.

I know for a fact now that many of you posting here are not interested in GN'R at all. I don't see you taking part in any GN'R discussions unless it's about a cancellation or other negative news.


I get blamed for bringing GN'R into the discussions but the truth is, I point out something about this band that makes no sense to me and one of you will say "at least they don't add computer beeps to their songs" or "at least they release albums". Taking cheap shots at GN'R on a GN'R message board to make your favorite band seem that much better.


Booker can't handle the fact that I criticize VR. I guess because we don't allow GN'R bashing, we shouldn't allow anybody say anything bad about VR.

I don't understand why since this is a Guns N' Roses message board for Guns N' Roses fans.

Nobody has criticized VR the way some of you post about GN'R.


Believe me Booker, I could start posting a lot more in this section if I wanted to. There's a lot of things I could whine about regarding this band if I really wanted to.

But I don't bother, I just laugh at your stubborn theories about me and why I do the things I do.




/jarmo

[Smoking Guns]

Can you make a list of those that participate on both sides and have nice things to say about both bands Jarmo?

I will start the list with my name,

Smoking Guns

[Booker Floyd]

Why do I participate?

Because two-three VR fans keep bringing up "points" about the site that make no fucking sense.

Thats why you were compelled to change a threads title to draw attention to Weilands wife burning his clothes?  Thats why youve repeatedly criticized them for their intro?  Thats your explanation for the countless negative comments youve made on here?  Because two or three people make points about the website with which you dont agree? 

I know for a fact now that many of you posting here are not interested in GN'R at all. I don't see you taking part in any GN'R discussions unless it's about a cancellation or other negative news.

So by that logic, you are interested in VR?  Or do you only take part in a discussion when theres bad news or something to criticize (which is nearly everything as far as youre concerned)?

I get blamed for bringing GN'R into the discussions but the truth is, I point out something about this band that makes no sense to me and one of you will say "at least they don't add computer beeps to their songs" or "at least they release albums". Taking cheap shots at GN'R on a GN'R message board to make your favorite band seem that much better.

Negativity breeds negativity.  This is your board, but you seem to be the only one who fails to recognize that, despite your idyllic vision of a section in which new GNR fans disrespect Scott Weiland, an overwhelming percentage of this sections participants are fans of VR and engage in positive discussion.  You want it to be different - as you said, you view it not as a section for VR fans, but GNR fans...who presumably arent VR fans - so you make nothing but negative posts.  I dont think taking shots at GNR or Axl to defend VR is a fair thing to do, but I do think that youve been on these boards long enough to know what will bait people into doing so. 

Booker can't handle the fact that I criticize VR.

I cant?  Then we disagree - I think I handle it just fine. 

Would your logic then suggest that you cant handle criticism - of yourself, your site, Axl, GNR?  What do you think is the difference?

I guess because we don't allow GN'R bashing, we shouldn't allow anybody say anything bad about VR.

Are people allowed to say anything bad about GNR in that section? 

Nobody has criticized VR the way some of you post about GN'R.

No?  I could cite some pretty harsh posts if youd like to see them?  There was even a thread titled "Boycott Contraband." 

Believe me Booker, I could start posting a lot more in this section if I wanted to. There's a lot of things I could whine about regarding this band if I really wanted to.

Why would you do that? 

Yeah, I really dislike them don't I? Seen them live five times by now.

You said you "dislike" them (which I thought signified the opposite in the context of sarcasm) and saw them five times. 

But I don't bother, I just laugh at your stubborn theories about me and why I do the things I do.

If thats what you just did, we wouldnt be having this discussion.  Unfortunately, you do bother.  You bother often. 

[Pingouirose]

Good post Booker 

Now can we stop this childish debate ? For god's sake, please please VR haters stay out of this section (like GNR haters please stop whining in gnr section)

The new songs fuckin rock so haters please don't try to waste Libertad release

[Grouse]

Can you make a list of those that participate on both sides and have nice things to say about both bands Jarmo?

I will start the list with my name,

Smoking Guns

I was thinking the exact same thing, would be nice to see who the big boss deems worthy of that list...

[audjon]

Who do you like better, your father or your mother? Com'on, tell me, you got to choose, you CAN'T love both of them ...

[Smoking Guns]

Why can't people critique GNR in the GNR section?? Not being able to do that appears to be very insecure, especially when it is fair game to flame on another band all day.? You shouldn't talk about others the way you don't want them talking about you Jarmo.? Or anyone for that mather.? I am okay with people saying they don't like something from VR, like Jim Bob.? He doesn't bother me, and he is mainly negative to VR, but atleast he will listen to the song and give an honest opinion.? Something Jarmo can't do with GNR and can only do with VR when its seems to be a negative opinion.

Good things Jarmo generally says about VR,

They had "fun" shows during their first album.

Do It For the Kids is one of their better songs.

Slither is their best song.

That sums up all the positive Jarmo will generally say about VR.