22 Killed in US school Shooting

[LunsJail]

i haven't read it all, can someone sum up what GNR has to do with this?

In the play, two people are talking about a teacher named Mr. Brownstone.  They imply that they were molested by him and there's a lot of rage there.  It's apparent that this guy had little understanding of what the song was saying.

[Skeletor]

Also sucks that he mentioned GNR, I hope that aspect of it doesn't get blown out of proportion in the press.

I don't think the lyrics to Mr. Brownstone are controversial enough to create a fuss... then again, I guess you never know

It's apparent that this guy had little understanding of what the song was saying.

One line does say:

"JOHN: The song by Guns N' Roses called Mr. Brownstone. The song was about their heroin addiction."

[LunsJail]

One line does say:

"JOHN: The song by Guns N' Roses called Mr. Brownstone. The song was about their heroin addiction."

You're right, it does say that.  What was this guy thinking then?

[mrlee]

I think GNR's off the hook:

The news is saying that he liked to play violent video games, "Counterstrike" in particular.  I don't know it, but it looks like a shooter game, so the media will latch onto that before GNR.

CSS owns!!! i play it all the time, its just a internet swat vs terrorist game.

[25]

I guarantee the crime rate would be double maybe triple if people didn't have guns of their own to protect themselves.

Based on what? Show us your work, where is the research which even suggests a correlation between an increase in domestic arms and a decrease in crime? If the one personal example you gave earlier is your sole source then you must already know that your conclusion is flawed as a single example is not a representative sample.


And I'm not going to make too much of this, but you did say that the US can't be compared to smaller countries and that no other country has the gang, drug and race problems that the US has - And then you post a table of "Murders per capita" (doesn't say which year) in which the US is 24th behind a host of smaller countries which also have much worse gang, drug and racial problems than the US (except maybe Poland and Mexico. Not sure.) Doesn't it strike you as odd, or at least mildly ironic, that you so easily disproved your own statement?
Also; Congratulations on the US having marginally less murders per capita than the ex-soviet block and South America. It's a shining example of the success of western civilization.



Having said all that; I've given it some thought and I've decided that gun control should be eliminated. All legislation relating to firearms and their use should be stricken from the   books. If anything, gun ownership should be mandatory for everyone from Jr High students on up. I think that there would be no quicker, surer way of turning public opinion against guns than to hand them out to everyone with no oversight and no qualification requirement. I'm relatively confident that within 12 months we'd either have a total ban on guns or a new system of government. 

[D]

I guarantee the crime rate would be double maybe triple if people didn't have guns of their own to protect themselves.

Based on what? Show us your work, where is the research which even suggests a correlation between an increase in domestic arms and a decrease in crime? If the one personal example you gave earlier is your sole source then you must already know that your conclusion is flawed as a single example is not a representative sample.


And I'm not going to make too much of this, but you did say that the US can't be compared to smaller countries and that no other country has the gang, drug and race problems that the US has - And then you post a table of "Murders per capita" (doesn't say which year) in which the US is 24th behind a host of smaller countries which also have much worse gang, drug and racial problems than the US (except maybe Poland and Mexico. Not sure.) Doesn't it strike you as odd, or at least mildly ironic, that you so easily disproved your own statement?
Also; Congratulations on the US having marginally less murders per capita than the ex-soviet block and South America. It's a shining example of the success of western civilization.



Having said all that; I've given it some thought and I've decided that gun control should be eliminated. All legislation relating to firearms and their use should be stricken from the? ?books. If anything, gun ownership should be mandatory for everyone from Jr High students on up. I think that there would be no quicker, surer way of turning public opinion against guns than to hand them out to everyone with no oversight and no qualification requirement. I'm relatively confident that within 12 months we'd either have a total ban on guns or a new system of government.?

I thought I did earlier?

Washington DC in 1976 placed a ban on all handguns. Crime rose 200 percent in washington DC between 1976 through 1991 as opposed to 12 percent for the rest of the US.

[D]

Criminals are scared of breaking into houses where they know they may get shot.

If u take that fear away from criminals, they have free reign to terrorize whomever they see fit.



Ban automatic weapons, I totally agree with that but some are just not thinking realistically.

Guns will never be totally banished from existance. So any conversation where someone says all handguns should be disposed of are not valid conversations cause thats impossible.

So u have to start with realistic measures.

One being banning all automatic weapons. A guy could never do all that damage with a six shooter. Campuses should have gun trained guards roaming the campus during all school hours, Like Mall rent a cops only with guns.

Virginia Tech are to blame for this also. the cops were super slow responding, I think I read where the gunman actually had two attacks more than an hour or two apart but the school didnt even warn the students that a shooting had taken place. Am I accurate on that or did I get bad info?

[25]

Washington DC in 1976 placed a ban on all handguns. Crime rose 200 percent in washington DC between 1976 through 1991 as opposed to 12 percent for the rest of the US.

And as I already said, a single example is not a representative sample.

[25]

Guns will never be totally banished from existance. So any conversation where someone says all handguns should be disposed of are not valid conversations cause thats impossible.

No-one is saying that. What is being said is that guns in general should not be available to the general public. That suggestion makes sense, so those who oppose it have to twist and mutate it into "you people think we can magically make guns disappear from the surface of the planet" because that's the kind of idea that even a five-year-old can argue against.

There is no way that it makes sense to look at an horrific shooting, a bona-fide mass murder, and say "the problem here is that we need more guns." It's textbook Orwellian double-think, "people keep shooting people, therefore we need to give more people guns" - "guns will never be eradicated therefore we need to give more guns to people." It just doesn't make any sort of sense, no matter how many caveats and footnotes you attach to it.

[D]

25 here is where I think your logic is flawed.


What u are proposing basically takes guns out of the hands of most people but how can u keep guns out of illegal people's hands? the people in gangs and the criminals who obtain this shit illegally?

What u are proposing basically puts every innocent law abiding citizen in danger cause the only thing protecting a lot of the population is the fact they own a gun and can protect themselves against bad people.

If the bad people can still get guns illegally but the law abiding good guys can no  longer, we are in serious trouble and would be in far worse shape than we are now.

U ever heard the saying "Guns Don't kill people, people kill people"?

That is absolutely right.

Until u can get illegal automatic firearms off the streets, U cannot take away people's means of protecting themselves.

Sure in a perfect world your theory works, but this isnt a perfect world and unarming innocent law abiding citizens IS NOT the answer.

[Buddha_Master]

Holy Shit! Sorry if this was already reported here but, you guys here the latest about this motherfucker! This is not a joke. I am sure this will be all over the place soon enough. You heard about the fucked up plays this guy wrote right? Fuck...

This dude was a GNR fan, and named one of his plays after his favorite GNR song, "Mr. Brownstone." You believe this shit! You can read the play here:

http://news.aol.com/virginia-tech-shootings/cho-seung-hui/_a/mr-brownstone-title-page/20070417141309990001

[Thorazine Shuffle]

I think he had a teacher named Mr Brownstone, didn't he?

[25]

Sure in a perfect world your theory works, but this isnt a perfect world and unarming innocent law abiding citizens IS NOT the answer.

I guess it works in other countries because they're part of some other, more perfect world?

Guns don't kill people.People with guns kill people. <- THAT is absolutely right.

For the record, how many gun-totting citizens have been out fighting crime and cleaning up the streets lately? What's the statistical comparison between crimes prevented by the police and crimes prevented by regular citizens? Got any numbers on that? Because it seems a lot like the old "people need guns to protect themselves" argument is a crock of shit, especially when people seem to actually use their guns to look macho at the range or murder their families and then shoot themselves in the head. Statistical comparison between people defending their families with firearms and people killing their families with firearms? Anyone? Statistical comparison between people protecting their families with firearms and people accidentally leaving their firearms loaded within reach of children who then accidentally shoot themselves or their playmates? Can we get a ballpark figure?

Here's a fun one, Statistical comparison between gun shooting deaths perpetrated by criminals with illegal guns and ordinary citizens with legal guns. Wonder how that one plays out.

Illegal weapons will always be around. Saying that you intend to do nothing about the ridiculous number of weapons sitting around in homes across the country until the criminals pack it in is an invitation to more horror and bloodshed in the workplace, schoolyard, college campus, at home, at the god-damn mall, wherever. The fact, usually, is that these shootings are committed by relatively normal citizens (ie; not career criminals) with legal, or legally obtained weapons. Frankly, I have no particular interest in guns being banned or being freely available, and I don't much care who gets shot by them  as long as it isn't me. But if you're going to argue that arming the public is a good idea, please don't insult all of us by throwing out conjecture and NRA slogans as if they have some bearing on reality. If all you mean to say is that you like the idea of being allowed to own a gun, then say just that. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion - and no need to justify having one. All of the speculation and platitudes you're piling on top of it do your opinion no justice, as it can't possibly sustain the weight of so much unfounded, unconnected tripe. 

[GNRfan2008]

The killer sent a package to NBC News with video, photos, and writings. They believe he sent the package in between the double murder and the massacre 2 hours later. Here's a photo from MSNBC's website:

[D]

I personally don't own a gun, will never own a gun and I absolutely hate guns but people are too quick to blame this or blame that when a tragedy happens. millions of people own guns and sure murders are committed but the kind of thing that happened at VA Tech is something that nothing could've prevented. The guy was insane. Sure no guns for anybody would've but once again, that will never happen.


Personally, I think any kid under 21 who is caught with a gun should go to jail but ALSO their parents should go to jail.

If your child steals your gun, murders someone and then kills himself, the parent should be charged with 2 murders.

How bout that?

[SLCPUNK]

The killer sent a package to NBC News with video, photos, and writings. They believe he sent the package in between the double murder and the massacre 2 hours later. Here's a photo from MSNBC's website:

What a total scumbag loser.

[Africa]

Don't acknowledge the fact that he existed.
He wanted to be remembered, to go down in history. Let's remember the tragedy, not him.
Let's just be happy this nobody is dead. No-name human garbage, that's what he should be remembered as.
Don't post up his pics, either. Die nameless and faceless, bitch.

[D]

Anyone else find it disgusting how the media use this for ratings and ad dollars?

[Sin Cut]

Here's a thought;

How many of you have been in a fight or seen a fight?

Okay, let's take a few situations;

1 vs. 1
1 vs. 2
1 vs. 5
1 vs. 10

It get more and more likely, the more people are involved, right?

Don't you think those ten would walk away if the guy they're up against would pull out a gun?

Then again, where I live, you get commited even if you shoot a junkie who's on something and is dangering your family. Now how just is that?

You even get commited if you participate in a fight defending yourself.

Now I wouldn't go and blame a guy for beating up a rapist, but gues what, he got to pay the rapist 'cos he stepped in.

It's just that, the more power you have, the more chance you have that you get to walk out of the situation without having to use force.

[25]

I personally don't own a gun, will never own a gun and I absolutely hate guns but people are too quick to blame this or blame that when a tragedy happens. millions of people own guns and sure murders are committed but the kind of thing that happened at VA Tech is something that nothing could've prevented. The guy was insane. Sure no guns for anybody would've but once again, that will never happen.


Personally, I think any kid under 21 who is caught with a gun should go to jail but ALSO their parents should go to jail.

If your child steals your gun, murders someone and then kills himself, the parent should be charged with 2 murders.

How bout that?

I think you've gone off on a tangent. Punishment is irrelevant as penalties don't seem to prevent anything. I think that in the second scenario you proposed it's possible that the parent could be on the hook for two counts of manslaughter anyway, depending on the circumstances. Unlikely, but possible.

The VA Tech thing, well, I think you already suggested that if the guy had only a handgun he'd have been less able or less likely to kill so many people. I'll say that I think that if he'd had no legal way to obtain a firearm he would have drawn much more attention to himself in his attempt to procure one, especially given the court ruling on his mental health and threat level, which could have lead to this shooting being prevented. We're told that this guy was not exactly a subtle, low-key individual which does suggest that this could be one of the few clear-cut cases where prevention should have been a real possibility. We can only speculate but I would think that if there had been, at the very least, more obstacles in his path such as more strict gun ownership laws or better background checks then prevention would have been more likely. Of course, it's all irrelevant now.