22 Killed in US school Shooting

[LeftToDecay]

I've never understood what's  the point of anyone(not involved with law enforcement etc etc.)being able to buy a gun that is only ment and designed for killing other people. It's incredibly stupid. The fact that gun laws at U.S are still loose as hell 18th century bullshit is even more stupid. How there isn't any more outrage around making gun laws much more strict in there..it's completely beyond my understanding.
Just what the fuck is the point of someone being able to go and legally  buy a say, a magnum  or some semi automatic assault rifle.There is absolutely no sense in that.
Hunting rifles/sharpshooting stuff and whatnot isn't entirely different matter..It's not like it was impossible to kill someone with a shotgun..But atleast being able to buy one legally is somethign that fits into my understanding of what is remotely rational.Atleast they aren't designed to kill as many humans as possible as efficiently as possible.

[jazjme]

THE SHooter was a English major CHO SEUNG -HUI , 23 yrs old. Whoi was a student .

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

south korean?
blame it on mmorpg ....

[GeorgeSteele]

There's still no confirmation on how he purchased the gun, other than a vague mention of finding "receipts" for a Glock 9mm in his backpack. ?Doesn't sound like an illegal purchase to me. ?We'll find out soon enough.

Gun control seems to be working rather well in Great Britain, where there were a total of 46 homicides involving firearms last year. New York City, with 8 million people compared to 53 million in England and Wales, had 579 homicides last year. ?Still, it must really suck not being able to shoot firearms for fun and God only knows how frightening it must be to be at the mercy of Prince Charles' tyrranical whim.

[FunkyMonkey]

The gunman responsible for at least the second of the two Virginia Tech attacks that claimed 33 lives to become the deadliest shooting rampage in U.S. history has been identified Cho Seung-Hui, a campus student and native of South Korea, Virginia Tech police said Tuesday.

Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said the shooter was a 23-year-old resident alien who was an undergraduate senior English major. He had a residence in Centreville, Va., but was also living on campus in Harper Hall.

There is also talk that he possibly phoned in the 2 bomb threats the week earlier to test the security of campus.  They also announced that the same gun was used in both shootings.

[norway]

Such an tragedy

It appears that this man was an international student, meaning he wasn't legally allowed to own guns - so he got them illegally!!!!!! ?

Maybe the contacts he got the weapons from got them legally due to the easy accessibillty?
Access and crime goes hand in hand.

Not saying ancient and extreme gunlaws is the reason this happen but we don't want the world society to develope in this direction where civilians cary any type of firearms anywhere.
There ARE places in the world more brutal than USA tho, Russia, middle-east etc

I support self-defence but this is should be acheived in non-lethal means...such as stun-guns, alarms, tear-gas etc, less effective but security-personel is alternative means before you arm civilians with guns

[FunkyMonkey]

He may have had a receipt for the gun.

Sources say Cho was carrying a backpack that contained receipts for a Glock 9 mm pistol, purchased in March. Witnesses had told authorities that the shooter was carrying a backpack. Police also said this morning that Cho had a .22 caliber pistol. Sections of chain similar to those used to lock the main doors at Norris Hall, the site of the second shooting that left 31 dead, were also found inside a Virginia Tech dormitory, sources confirmed to ABC News.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3048108&page=1

[Grouse]

I seriously can't understand why some people are so fanatic about not losing the right to bear arms...

Over here it is almost impossible to get a gun you have to go trough all kinds of tests and when you do finally get one you either have to leave it at the gunclub or you can take it home and put the ammo in one safe and the gun itself in another safe on the other side of the house...

[Axlfreek]

did this kid commit suicide after the shooting or did the police take him down ?

[freedom78]

Could someone point out how easy it is to get a gun in us?

Gun control in the US is a tricky issue because, like other issues, it's very much divided up between central and state control.  In 1994, the US passed the "Brady Bill" which imposed a five day waiting period, during which a background check (specifically for criminal records) is done.  This law has fluctuated some since then, and I'm uncertain about exactly how it presently works. 

However, MOST gun control is done on a state by state basis.  So, the length of a waiting period, the types of conceal and carry permits available, licenses for hunting, and so forth vary a great deal based on where you live.  For example, in my state of residence (Illinois), you have to apply for a FOID (Firearm Owners Identification) card, which is essentially a license, and has your photo on it.  Your application is handled by the Illinois State Police, who check your criminal record and are the ones who issue the license.  You also have to be a citizen or resident alien (I'm not sure yesterday's shooter is a resident alien...?).

I'm sure other states have similar measures, but as they vary by state, I'm far from an expert.

There are a few types of gun violence that have plagued the US.

First, there are those families whose children think the family gun is "cool," and want to show it to friends, and then there's an accident.  I, personally, blame this one on the parents, for not educating their children about guns and for not having them inaccessible by the children. 

Second, there is a great wealth of illegal weaponry, much of which is used in gang violence and other criminal actions.  It is either illegal by type (some assault weapons; modified weapons such as sawed-off shotguns) or because the purchaser is not entitled to possess firearms due to a criminal record or some other reason. 

I don't have any numbers regarding the percentage of violent gun crimes carried out by someone who is legally entitled to the weapon and who purchased it legally, versus those where the crime is carried out using an illegal weapon.  And, because of the bitter division between the pro and anti-gun lobbies, I don't really trust the numbers that come from either side. 

I seriously can't understand why some people are so fanatic about not losing the right to bear arms...

Well, in the US it's part of our Constitution, and most Americans, rightly or wrongly, treat the Constitution as sacred and are very hesitant to support changes therein.  And, as I stated earlier in this thread, changing the US Constitution is a long and difficult process. 

[LunsJail]

did this kid commit suicide after the shooting or did the police take him down ?

Suicide, the police never fired a shot apparently.  He barricaded the doors and it was all over by the time they broke it down.

[Neemo]

tragic

my thoughts and prayers to the families of the victims

[madagas]

Well, if we are going to blame the government for gun control laws then let's blame the US government for our immigration policies as well. Another crime by a "resident" alien-not an American citizen. Couple that with all the illegal alien crimes, 911, and well, you get my point. Fine, get rid of guns, but let's also get rid of anyone and everyone who is not a US citizen. Until we get a handle on the war on terroism and on our own poverty issues with our own citizens, maybe it is time to really shut the borders down. Get the fuck out of Iraq and shut the borders stone cold down. I know that will never happen because our politicians are too fucking corrupt and money hungry, but one can dream. What a fucked up mess our society has become.....the Fall of the Roman Empire part 2....except we have only been around 250 years.

[gandra]

this is horrible

verysad for young people

[GeorgeSteele]

Well, in the US it's part of our Constitution,?and most Americans, rightly or wrongly, treat the Constitution as sacred and are very hesitant to support changes therein.  And, as I stated earlier in this thread, changing the US Constitution is a long and difficult process. 

There are disagreements concerning what exactly that part of the Constitution means.  The only opinion that matters, the Supreme Court's, is that it is not an individual's right to bear arms but the right of states to keep an armed militia.  More importantly, no gun control law has ever been declared unconstitutional.

[babydolls]

i never got the point.

so just in case the government go all tyrannical on you, you've all got guns to take them down?

i don't know about you, maybe that would have worked in the 1700's, but right now it wouldn't do anything. the army is far too powerful even against a shitload of gun crazed civillian militia.

there are otherways to overthrow a government. you've had the chance to do it every 4 years i think. its called voting.

and to the people saying "oh people kill people guns are just a means". well fucking duh, but with a gun somebody can take out 30+ people.

just look at other countries with gun control. i don't remember any school shootings here in Australia or in the UK. yeah they happen rarely in the US. but wouldn't you want them to not happen at ALL. how many times are you just gonna turn a blind eye and say "oh well.........it was a sick person..................but we love our guns because they protect us from the bad guys".

the other day....i heard a story from my old highschool that some kid tried to stab another kid with scissors. infact he accomplished that and the ambulance was called. luckily he didn't pierce any vital organs. just think what would happen if the kid was able to get a gun.

once i saw on the news at some school some kid brought a crossbow and fired it at a girl he hated. luckily it only pierced right through her shoulder. just think if that lunatic had a gun.

there are some real nuts out there. why make it easier for them to fulfill their desires of killing someone else or even multiple people.

Dunblane in Scotland 1996.? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_Massacre

? I hear what you are saying, but also although the UK has a far lower rate of gun crime than US, what is worrying here is the reasons and ages that people are getting guns and using them.? I'm talking about 13/14/15/16 year olds blowing each other away for lack of respect.? its something I think will increase in the UK.? Although guns are illegal, it is extremely easy to buy one in London certainly. A lot of drug dealers sell guns and ammo on the side - and they are dirrrrrrt cheap.? what price a life??? It's devastating.?

my heart goes out to everyone affected by this tragedy.

[freedom78]

Well, in the US it's part of our Constitution, and most Americans, rightly or wrongly, treat the Constitution as sacred and are very hesitant to support changes therein.  And, as I stated earlier in this thread, changing the US Constitution is a long and difficult process. 

There are disagreements concerning what exactly that part of the Constitution means.  The only opinion that matters, the Supreme Court's, is that it is not an individual's right to bear arms but the right of states to keep an armed militia.  More importantly, no gun control law has ever been declared unconstitutional.

Oh, I know there are disagreements, and I agree with you that the Supreme Court has the opinion that matters. 

But there has been a gun control law that was ruled unconstitutional.  The provision in the Brady Bill that forced state/local law enforcement to perform background checks was found unconstitutional, under the 10th Amendment.  This decision is now relatively unimportant, as far as the Brady Bill goes, because of the national database, which makes such background checks less of a task. 

Of course, it still illustrates the basic belief of the Court that this is a matter primarily for the states to handle.

[CheapJon]

in america they should show bowling for colombine in school, most of you guys probably have already seen it, see it again..

Did this movie blame video games?? I cant remember which one did that.?


A sad situation indeed?

Bowling For Columbine is one of the most ridiculous and dishonest movies ever made.? Moore is a oppurtunistic, worthless piece of dogshit.? Thank god he has gone into hiding after his botched get out and vote drive in 2004.

dishonest? ok, showing the statistics of killings in the states and compare it to all other big countries in the world.. it's something wrong with that country when it comes to shit like this.. i mean a country where some banks gives you a free gun when you open an account on the bank..

it's sick and there's so many to blame that you can't blame anyone

[GeorgeSteele]

Well, in the US it's part of our Constitution, and most Americans, rightly or wrongly, treat the Constitution as sacred and are very hesitant to support changes therein.? And, as I stated earlier in this thread, changing the US Constitution is a long and difficult process.?

There are disagreements concerning what exactly that part of the Constitution means.? The only opinion that matters, the Supreme Court's, is that it is not an individual's right to bear arms but the right of states to keep an armed militia.? More importantly, no gun control law has ever been declared unconstitutional.

Oh, I know there are disagreements, and I agree with you that the Supreme Court has the opinion that matters.?

But there has been a gun control law that was ruled unconstitutional.? The provision in the Brady Bill that forced state/local law enforcement to perform background checks was found unconstitutional, under the 10th Amendment.? This decision is now relatively unimportant, as far as the Brady Bill goes, because of the national database, which makes such background checks less of a task.?

Of course, it still illustrates the basic belief of the Court that this is a matter primarily for the states to handle.

You're right, should have said no such laws were found to violate the 2nd Amendment.

The problem with delegating this issue to the states is that guns will simply be acquired in states without the restrictions. 

[freedom78]

The problem with delegating this issue to the states is that guns will simply be acquired in states without the restrictions. 

That's true, though I question the extent to which most criminals seek out legally purchased guns.  After all, if you intend to commit a crime, it's probably worth the effort to make sure the gun isn't licensed to you. 

The advantage to state controls, though, is that you have 51 distinct approaches, and there's an opportunity to see what really works and what doesn't.  I think DC is evidence that a simple ban on guns will not solve gun violence in this country (at least for major metropolitan areas).  But if you think of gun violence as being one of two types (guns connected to larger levels of criminal activity vs. previously non-criminals who use then use a gun in a violent conflict), then I consider the former to be a far more serious problem.  And, I think it is largely tied to other problems that plague the US and, in particular, US cities.  Poverty and crime go hand in hand.  And, where there's crime, there are also illegal weapons.  To fix America's gun problem, you can't simply ban guns.  I truly don't believe it will work.  It's like trying to keep the Titanic from sinking by giving it a fresh coat of paint.  You really need to get to the root causes of violence, such as poverty, inner city education, and so forth.  Give inner city youths a choice that's better than joining gangs and dealing drugs. 

Of course, this has little to do with yesterday's shooting.  When someone is committed to killing on a mass level, and then committing suicide...well, the repercussions for violence matter little when you plan on taking your own life, anyway.

What this country REALLY needs is an open and honest gun debate.  Not the one raging between the Brady Campaign and the NRA, which is so full of bullshit and rhetoric that you couldn't find the truth if it bit you, but a REAL debate about what is necessary for self defense and what is not, and how to reign in gun violence by getting rid of its root causes.  There are tough questions to be asked and answered, but just like any political situation, little will be accomplished if this is left purely in the hands of the lobbies and the politicians beholden to them.