From the state that brought you Bush

[Prometheus]

These threads have a funny way of drifting to the subject of Iraq. Was that intended?

for some im sure it is, for me its not

[The Estranged MrFlashbax]

lets get it back on Bush then... here's a funny little story

Bush wanted to use a local church for a photo op. Bush's advance
person said to the pastor, "We will make a $10,000 contribution to
your church if, during your introduction of Bush, you say he is a
saint." The pastor agreed to do so and accepted the $10,000
contribution. When the pastor introduced Bush before a nationally
televised audience, the pastor said: "George Bush is a petty,
self-absorbed hypocrite and nitwit. He stole he 2000 election. He has
polarized the country. He has politicized science. He lied about his
military record. He invaded a country for oil and had the gall to
land on an aircraft carrier and pose before a banner stating 'Mission
Accomplished.' He continues to blur the line between church and state.
Cronyism and corruption are rampant in his administration. He is the
worst example of a Christian I've ever personally known. But, compared
to Dick Cheney, George Bush is a saint.

[Bodhi]

you can call it arrogant...but i LOVE this country...I love America whether we are right or wrong...irrational? sure is..but at least im honest about it...

Thats awfully stupid.

if that is awfully stupid..what do you call defending countries like Iran?  I know you think you are all high and mighty because when America is wrong YOU tell us about it...do you honestly think people in Iran care that you are "exposing the lies of President Bush?"  Our enemies would love to put a bullet in your head just as much as they would love to put one in mine....The only difference is that you seem to have this need to be loved by everyone..You seem to really care about what our enemies and other countries think of you..I on the other hand absolutely love the fact that they hate me and would love to kill me....and while I am laying around hanging out with friends, going to work, burning up oil in my car and destroying the ozone , there is not a damn thing they can do about it...because we got a crazy motherfucker in office.....

[Bodhi]

oh well...ill have to live with that tag.......

I couldn't think of anything more fitting.

you're right...because it is HUGE...seriously it is hard to find pants sometimes.....

[SLCPUNK]

So, is Iran threatening us right now?

Yes or no.

[cliffburton]

 

The vast majority of people in the military are people who joined or re-enlisted after the Iraq war began.

Oh this I really need to see a stat on. and when you get em the precentages I want you to take the totals of (Air force + Air National Guard) + ( USMC + USMC Res.) + ( Army + National Guard) + ( Navy + Naval Reserve) and give em the total of the US Military Size of both pre and post start of Iraq War and a total of pre 9/11 vs post 9/11. Please also include attrition rates of these time frames and the retention rates of them as well.

Do all that for me and cite refrences too 

So if im right and well im pretty sure I am right you will find that absed on all the numbers and maintain the prespective about retention and atrition rates of the military as you had pointed out you will see that you are wrong.

While I mean no ill towards those in the Navy and Air Force, they have no active role in the Iraq War.  The war is being fought by Marines and Soldiers.  I don't know for certain enlistment lengths of the Air Force and Navy, but I would assume that they have the same length of enlistment as the Army and Marines.  Enlistment contracts come in 2, 3, 4 and 6 year lengths.  With 4 and 6 being the most often chosen as it affords the most incentives, job training and often 2 and 3 year enlistments are not available,  The 6 year enlistement is the standard enlistment for anyone in the guard or reserve.  Being as the war started in 2003 and a year earlier for Afghanistan, the majority of people in the military would have chose to join or stay in sometime after the Iraq War began.  A very small portion of the military today would have signed up prior to 9/11 and their committments will be over in a few months at the latest.  I have no reason to provide you with attrition rates as doing so would prove my argument; people currently in the military want to serve, those who don't get out or didn't sign up in the first place.  Quit being a moron and do some basic reasoning.

So where should I send your enlistment papers then? or are you not going to go serve your country and protect it right or wrong?

Why so quick to assume I haven't already enlisted?  Just because the minds off this forum can't fathom that one would volunteer to serve one's nation and make sacrifices to protect it doesn't mean everyone has the same outlook.

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

At least Wat_ever has the guts to admit he hates America and the West.

Let me remind you that the wonderful "playboy" above sucks down a fat "westren" cheque from his "Westren" employer. I dont see him turning that down too quickly..... you cant congrat a person who hates something yet profits from the same thing that he hates..... ?

if that was directed at me, may i ask what did i do to deserve that?
So i work for L'oreal and i dislike capitalism. What should i do, quit a live in the forest? I have my opinions, people are not rational, i try to be coherent, but you should know people are not/

Anyway, again i see this " XXXX hates the west, hates america ". Isnt there something between hate and blind love? I question the usa. and i question France and europe. Doesnt make me a hatter.

Reading  JohnSDMF - and some others that have tagged me as a hater - , i believe they speak the language of hate and fear. They talk about ennemies, and hierachical value of life, about civilization clash and emptyness of care.

This is so typical. There is black and white. A great method of mind manipulation. What the Bush's administration have used many times. You're either with us or against us. This leaves no choice. And cristalize all the hate and love. It's all in the words.

Seeing a palestinian fighter as a freedom fighter, can make you an american hater.
Trying to understand Iran, can make you a hater of the west.

wake up/

[Robman?]

in other words you'd like to pull out now and throw the middle east into a greater state of turmoil

Whats funny is that you trust an administration thats been wrong on everything and seemingly believe that the region is not already in a state of turmoil.   

Notice the word 'greater'

if the US pulls out Iran will invade Iraq. Do i trust the current administration? Not completely. But the people elected those officials, and the troops in Iraq are volunteers.

[The Estranged MrFlashbax]

you can call it arrogant...but i LOVE this country...I love America whether we are right or wrong...irrational? sure is..but at least im honest about it...

Thats awfully stupid.

if that is awfully stupid..what do you call defending countries like Iran?  I know you think you are all high and mighty because when America is wrong YOU tell us about it...do you honestly think people in Iran care that you are "exposing the lies of President Bush?"  Our enemies would love to put a bullet in your head just as much as they would love to put one in mine....The only difference is that you seem to have this need to be loved by everyone..You seem to really care about what our enemies and other countries think of you..I on the other hand absolutely love the fact that they hate me and would love to kill me....and while I am laying around hanging out with friends, going to work, burning up oil in my car and destroying the ozone , there is not a damn thing they can do about it...because we got a crazy motherfucker in office.....

we're making enemies faster than we're making friends.. how long do you think this lifestyle of ours will last once the majority of the world's sick of our colonial mentality? i say "colonial mentality" because we call iraqis that fight back "insurgents" when in the late 1700's we did the same shit.. "some other fucking country from across the globe is sending soldiers down here and tellin' us how to run shit and tryin' to run our government? fuck that shit, we'll dump some tea into the river and cause a revolution"

[Prometheus]

 

The vast majority of people in the military are people who joined or re-enlisted after the Iraq war began.

Oh this I really need to see a stat on. and when you get em the precentages I want you to take the totals of (Air force + Air National Guard) + ( USMC + USMC Res.) + ( Army + National Guard) + ( Navy + Naval Reserve) and give em the total of the US Military Size of both pre and post start of Iraq War and a total of pre 9/11 vs post 9/11. Please also include attrition rates of these time frames and the retention rates of them as well.

Do all that for me and cite refrences too?

So if im right and well im pretty sure I am right you will find that absed on all the numbers and maintain the prespective about retention and atrition rates of the military as you had pointed out you will see that you are wrong.

While I mean no ill towards those in the Navy and Air Force, they have no active role in the Iraq War.? The war is being fought by Marines and Soldiers.? I don't know for certain enlistment lengths of the Air Force and Navy, but I would assume that they have the same length of enlistment as the Army and Marines.? Enlistment contracts come in 2, 3, 4 and 6 year lengths.? With 4 and 6 being the most often chosen as it affords the most incentives, job training and often 2 and 3 year enlistments are not available,? The 6 year enlistement is the standard enlistment for anyone in the guard or reserve.? Being as the war started in 2003 and a year earlier for Afghanistan, the majority of people in the military would have chose to join or stay in sometime after the Iraq War began.? A very small portion of the military today would have signed up prior to 9/11 and their committments will be over in a few months at the latest.? I have no reason to provide you with attrition rates as doing so would prove my argument; people currently in the military want to serve, those who don't get out or didn't sign up in the first place.? Quit being a moron and do some basic reasoning.

So where should I send your enlistment papers then? or are you not going to go serve your country and protect it right or wrong?

Why so quick to assume I haven't already enlisted?? Just because the minds off this forum can't fathom that one would volunteer to serve one's nation and make sacrifices to protect it doesn't mean everyone has the same outlook.

Did you enlist then? if you have then i shake your hand and wish you godspeed.


and what attrition and retention rates prove is that the war would have either the effect that you describe, or that I do. The fact is that both pre and post 9/11 the retention rate year over year is 66%.

So lets do some number crunching. Lets make the US Army 100,000 persons strong in january '01, and we will give 5 year plans for re-enlistment so 20k a year are up for re-enlistment. goal is maintaining 100k

so in '02 66% of 20k reup 13,200 take that over 5yrs = 66k leaving 34k for new recruits (majority hold for pre 9/11) its not until almost another 5 years pass does the numbers flip.

the marines hold a very similar view point some 82% retention...... 82%!!!!!!!

so the you have it, like you said those that want to serve do and those that dont leave, the point of this is simply to state that the military has been maintaining the levels they are at for a long time. because they serve and vol'ed to join does not mean that the goverment should matin the right to keep sending them to the slaughter. There comes a time when the weight of the blood spilt far out paces the resolve to keep pushing it, though one thing i ahve to say is that bush has the resolve, and does see that the war needs to continue, or all is for not. However what you somehow fail to see is that if all these ppl (soilders) all quit the US would be screwed because the new recruits... would get toasted rather quickly. Career soilders see this and know that the security of the country falls onto their hands and shoulders, without them things will get bad fast. The only ones that bitch are the ones that really didnt know what they were getting into.

the Navy and AF does have a major role in the war, and too not see that shows how near sighted that you are about this entire situation. To follow what you say then we would have to eliminate the CAS (except for army/marine helo's and fighter of the marines (which there is not enough of to provide proper coverage)) all transportation of supplies and theatre support operations. Without the other 2 elements which are vital the War would not happen... and every boot on the ground would be cut off surrounded with no hope of support.

[Prometheus]

wat-ever you were merely being used as you were portrayed a hater, and that it was a good thing to be that way. My reasoning was to illustrate that though may be a hater you reap the rewards that came from the things that you hate.

you may recall many of my posts on some rather off topics and the stances that are very against the grain. Somewhat in the spirit of the Pale' freedom fighter... which i dont think of as a freedom fighter.... i do think of as a terrorist.... however the Isrealis are more to blame for the state of the way things turned then what the pale's are for tring to get what they want. However both sides fail to see that all these attacks when real progress starts to be made are counter productive, and have turned into the mantra that Isreal must be destroyed and no co-existance is possible.

[The Estranged MrFlashbax]

its against UN policy to go to different countries, destroy people's houses, clear out neighborhoods and put up settlementsfor your people.. which is what the israelis are doing.. but nobody looks at the fact that it's illegal cuz who gives a fuck about those terrorist muslim people? they burn american flags in their spare time, so lets just kick em out of their homes forcefully, destroy their lives and families, and move in.. no one's gonna miss em. they'll just get really pissed off and start to fight back for their homes, at which point we'll just call them terrorist attacks and get public sympathy on our side. WE WIN  BOTH WAYS!!! god bless the free world 



i fucking hate this planet and the people inhabiting it

[cliffburton]

its against UN policy to go to different countries, destroy people's houses, clear out neighborhoods and put up settlementsfor your people.. which is what the israelis are doing.. but nobody looks at the fact that it's illegal cuz who gives a fuck about those terrorist muslim people? they burn american flags in their spare time, so lets just kick em out of their homes forcefully, destroy their lives and families, and move in.. no one's gonna miss em. they'll just get really pissed off and start to fight back for their homes, at which point we'll just call them terrorist attacks and get public sympathy on our side. WE WIN? BOTH WAYS!!! god bless the free world?



i fucking hate this planet and the people inhabiting it

then go swallow a bullet.  one less polluter and consumer.

[The Estranged MrFlashbax]

its against UN policy to go to different countries, destroy people's houses, clear out neighborhoods and put up settlementsfor your people.. which is what the israelis are doing.. but nobody looks at the fact that it's illegal cuz who gives a fuck about those terrorist muslim people? they burn american flags in their spare time, so lets just kick em out of their homes forcefully, destroy their lives and families, and move in.. no one's gonna miss em. they'll just get really pissed off and start to fight back for their homes, at which point we'll just call them terrorist attacks and get public sympathy on our side. WE WIN  BOTH WAYS!!! god bless the free world 



i fucking hate this planet and the people inhabiting it

then go swallow a bullet.  one less polluter and consumer.

that's cute.. did you come up with that allll by yourself? 

[Dr. Blutarsky]

its against UN policy to go to different countries, destroy people's houses, clear out neighborhoods and put up settlementsfor your people.. which is what the israelis are doing.. but nobody looks at the fact that it's illegal cuz who gives a fuck about those terrorist muslim people? they burn american flags in their spare time, so lets just kick em out of their homes forcefully, destroy their lives and families, and move in.. no one's gonna miss em. they'll just get really pissed off and start to fight back for their homes, at which point we'll just call them terrorist attacks and get public sympathy on our side. WE WIN  BOTH WAYS!!! god bless the free world 



i fucking hate this planet and the people inhabiting it

You are such a drama queen.

The situation in Israel and the history leading up to what is going on now is not as eloquently simple as you claim it to be.

I blame both sides for that one.

Regarding the free world:  You should not take for granted the freedom of speech you have  to be able to speak your mind. 

[Gordon Gekko]

do you feel like a better person by defending Iran?  A country whose leader wants to wipe Jews off the face of the planet?  Does that feel good to defend them because they havent done anything to US yet...?

Iran has been named a member of the axis of evil, one of which has already been invaded by us. It has two American armies on each side, and massive NATO air power to its north. If I was the leader of that country, I would see it as a duty to protect my people from George Bush, who has already demonstrated he is a reckless unpredictable shit for brains moron, by acquiring nukes, the one thing that will prevent a US invasion by this fucking moron. We reap what we sow.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

do you feel like a better person by defending Iran?  A country whose leader wants to wipe Jews off the face of the planet?  Does that feel good to defend them because they havent done anything to US yet...?

Iran has been named a member of the axis of evil, one of which has already been invaded by us. It has two American armies on each side, and massive NATO air power to its north. If I was the leader of that country, I would see it as a duty to protect my people from George Bush, who has already demonstrated he is a reckless unpredictable shit for brains moron, by acquiring nukes, the one thing that will prevent a US invasion by this fucking moron. We reap what we sow.

Did Bush force Iran to take over our embassy in 1979 and hold American citizens hostage for 444 days?

And there is no excuse for stating they want to wipe another country off the map. And denying the holocaust even happened?

I'm not defending Bush, but get your facts straight.

[Gordon Gekko]

I'm not defending Bush, but get your facts straight.

Get yours straight.

I don't see Iran projecting their military around the world, invading countries for no valid reasons across the other side of the globe, and then belligerently barking orders for nearby countries to obey or face the consequences of pissing them off more. I see Bush doing this for the last four years. Given what Iran can do on purpose vs. what Bush can do with another bumbling misstep like his last one, yes, I would say Bush represents a greater danger to world peace than Iran both in the probability of initiating some disaster and the scope such a disaster can become.