What happened to Paul Tobias?

[usurper]

This thread has become very interesting.......

[Mikkamakka]

Slash wanted Ryan Roxie to play rhythm in Guns N' Roses. Axl wanted Paul. Period.

[the dirt]

Slash wanted Ryan Roxie to play rhythm in Guns N' Roses.

And who was this?

[Neemo]

slash doesnt plays in Look at your game girl.... a guy named Carlos Booy.. plays the guitar (slash said this in an article)... Dizzy plays the percussion...

if this is true then why wasn't it much of an issue, but slash's rhythm on a soundtrack song was the end of it all?

I think the whole band was so fucked up mentally and physically that nobody knew what they wanted to do as a group they only knew what they wanted to do as individuals. Duff was Doing Beleive in Me, Gilby was doing Pawnshop Guitars, Slash was doing Snakepit, and the three of them were in each others bands and then matt helped them all out as well.

The only one that had GnR on his mind was Axl (at least thats the way I looked at it back then) Why would Axl ask for opinions from them when they were all busy? I think that Axl should've did what the rest of them did and record some solo stuff. But to Axl, he IS guns. so why should he do solo stuff? Its all just really fucked up. Ya know what I mean?

[jameslofton29]

I read years ago that Axl's gardener played guitar on the manson song. My dad wasnt a big GNR fan, but he liked this song. Go figure. 

[the dirt]

I read years ago that Axl's gardener played guitar on the manson song.

Mabey we'll have the pleasure of listening to a song about Axl's gardener on CD.

[usurper]

I read years ago that Axl's gardener played guitar on the manson song.

Mabey we'll have the pleasure of listening to a song about Axl's gardener on CD.

Funny.

*Sarcastic clapping in backround*

[the dirt]

I read years ago that Axl's gardener played guitar on the manson song.

Mabey we'll have the pleasure of listening to a song about Axl's gardener on CD.

Funny.

*Sarcastic clapping in backround*

Funnier than you.

[michaelvincent]

People like you crack me up.

I'm a funny guy what can I say.

Axl said slash NEVER gave him a replacment guitar player, slash never said that he did give one. So what does that tell you? Who did you think was going to play the parts that paul did on the album, a ghost??

I dunno.....maybe Slash? Slash could easily do all the guitar work in the studio. And Slash never saying that he gave one is not the same as Slash saying that he never gave one. Way to mix up your words.

All slash had to do is give a give axl a name to audution but he never did that.

Slash told me he did. No wait he didn't because I wasn't there. I guess you were.

You claiming its not true is just silling since both slash and axl pretty much agree on this. I guess their words are not good enough right?? I know what happened by the interviews of axl and the ex members, they are out there go google them and? you will see we are right.

I have a better idea. Why don't you google them and give me the links to read since your so hellbent on this. I don't recall reading anywhere that they had agreed on this, but hey, heres your chance to give me evidence.

[usurper]

I read years ago that Axl's gardener played guitar on the manson song.

Mabey we'll have the pleasure of listening to a song about Axl's gardener on CD.

Funny.

*Sarcastic clapping in backround*

Funnier than you.

Of course you are.

*Even more sarcastic clapping in the backround*

[jimmythegent]

Dave,

You are dodging Jimmy's point,? not the other way around.
NOBODY should be playing rhythm guitar until the band members with a say in the matter agree on who that person should be.
NOBODY should appear on a bands recording unless all members with a say have been told in advance and agree to it.

I cannot believe that you will not acknowledge Axls actions as lousy and disrespectful. It would appear to me that you are either blind to Axls faults or have never been part of a group activity where openess, democracy and fair play are vital.

absolutley agree 

[usurper]

Dave,

You are dodging Jimmy's point,? not the other way around.
NOBODY should be playing rhythm guitar until the band members with a say in the matter agree on who that person should be.
NOBODY should appear on a bands recording unless all members with a say have been told in advance and agree to it.

I cannot believe that you will not acknowledge Axls actions as lousy and disrespectful. It would appear to me that you are either blind to Axls faults or have never been part of a group activity where openess, democracy and fair play are vital.

absolutley agree?

A band is not a democracy, eventually one person will take more power away from the others, they get more attention, they get the cash, they get the glory. I believe that when Axl hired Paul Tobias to join the band he did a wise decision, he did something that Duff and Slash were to afraid to do because they did not want to be critizied for it. Axl had every right to hire Paul because Slash was still getting wasted by that stage and Duff was off making shitty punk albums. He held the band together, or tried too, but in the end Duff and Slash packed up and left the band, possibly for the better

[mrsaxlrose]

Dave,

You are dodging Jimmy's point,? not the other way around.
NOBODY should be playing rhythm guitar until the band members with a say in the matter agree on who that person should be.
NOBODY should appear on a bands recording unless all members with a say have been told in advance and agree to it.

I cannot believe that you will not acknowledge Axls actions as lousy and disrespectful. It would appear to me that you are either blind to Axls faults or have never been part of a group activity where openess, democracy and fair play are vital.

absolutley agree?

A band is not a democracy, eventually one person will take more power away from the others, they get more attention, they get the cash, they get the glory. I believe that when Axl hired Paul Tobias to join the band he did a wise decision, he did something that Duff and Slash were to afraid to do because they did not want to be critizied for it. Axl had every right to hire Paul because Slash was still getting wasted by that stage and Duff was off making shitty punk albums. He held the band together, or tried too, but in the end Duff and Slash packed up and left the band, possibly for the better

It wasn't so much bringing in Paul Huge that broke them up, it was the fact that Axl had him re-record some of SFTD and didn't tell Slash.......now that was just wrong, and Slash has said that that was the one thing that hurt him most

[Neemo]

This is all new info to me

hell I didn't know Tobias played on SFTD I thought it was Gilby still.

Like I said before though, from the "Behind the Music" special it sounds as though the band was so fucked up on drugs and booze that they really had no clue as to what was happening around them. With "Believe in Me" and "It's five o'clock somewhere" maybe Axl was pressured into completing the track and Slash was unavailable (we all know how erratic Axl can be ) maybe he just took it upon himself to bring in a guitarist, obviously it wasn't the right thing to do. We have no idea of the kind of pressures that were put on those guys, fuck man they were the biggest band in the world, maybe the execs said "we want it done and we want it done today" and Slash said "can't make it use what I aready did" and Axl said "no way it's not quite right" and Tobias said "I'll do it" and then they recorded it. Who the fuck knows, It's ancient history and only speculation? We are probably all wrong in our ideas about it.

Anyway this incident is what I think this part in IRS is referring to. In fact I think that song is about the GnR breakup and Lawsuits surrounding it.

"It wouldn't be the first time I'd been wrong
It wouldn't be the last, I'm sure, I've found
With all the rumors I can tell
some things didn't work so well "

[AxlsMainMan]

I seem to remember that Axl and Slash alone recorded "look at your game girl" and put it on the album and the rest of the band didn't know about it.

I don't think Slash plays on that track.




/jarmo

Do you have an article regarding the controversy of that song jarmo?

Interview Regarding TSI?:

Los Angeles. Now is the noise around Guns N' Roses last record, The Spaghetti Incident?, and the song "Look At Your Game Girl", written by the massmurderer Charles Manson culminating. The record company's plans on cutting out the song from the record has made the band's singer, Axl Rose, furious.
*******
- The song is there because it's good and I recognize myself in the lyrics, not to chock, he says. Already have 3,5 million copies with the song "Look At Your Game Girl" been released and in Sweden the album have gone straight into the sales-list's second spot. But if Geffen Records owner David Geffen determines the song wont be on the next pressings. And to Aftonbladet confirms Christina Rood on Geffen Records in Los Angeles that "Look At Your Game Girl" will be cut out from the record.
  - It wont be on the next delievery, she says.
   Axl Rose have no understanding for the reactions. He claims that the band recorded the song just because it was good.
   - I liked the lyrics, he says. It's about a mad girl who plays a mad game and it felt like a description of a situation I was in myself. I thought it was ironic that it was written by Charles Manson, a man who should be familiar with madness. Rose also says that the band have been doing everything to reduce the song's importance.
   - We don't thank Charles Manson on the cover and the song is like a hidden bonus-track, he says. Still, he does not mention that the originator instead is thanked with a whisper in the end of the song and that he the last year have been wearing t-shirts that says "Charlie don't surf" on the back. In USA have people been upset about the fact that Charles Manson who in 1969 was sentenced for the murder of seven people, can recieve royalties from both the t-shirt sells and the record sells. With highest probability is the man who tortured and murdered the pregnant actress Sharon Tate and six of her friends going to be a millionaire in prison.

hem.passagen.se/snoqalf/art-199311-AB.html 

Interview with Slash:

When it comes to controversial exploitions you could say that Guns N' Roses was for the eighties what the Sex Pistols was for the seventies. Rebels from different eras, but with very much in common.
We can have a look at some resemblances. Both Sex Pistols and Guns tore up feelings around taboo areas like heroin addiction, oaths in TV, turbulent relationships and outspoken, although incorrect political statements.

Duff McKagan underlines the resemblances by wearing a dog chain with a lock around his neck. Didn't Sid Vicious, the bass player of Sex Pistols, wear one like that too? There are differences too. GN'R doesn't keep it a secret that they are influenced by bands like Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin, and even Elton John. Just the crowd the Sex Pistols rebelled against. Sex Pistols never sold any major editions and wasn't played often on the radio, at least in the US. Guns N' Roses sell millions and millions of albums, and are played constantly on radio around the world. Sex Pistols never came further then the small clubs. Guns are already arena veterans! But "The Spaghetti Incident?" weaves the souls of the two bands together.

It shows clearly how a little rattling band from London has affected an entire generation. Guns N' Roses probably think it's great that millions of fans has made them to the greatest rock phenomena of our time, but I also think that they didn't dream of becoming what they once fought against. An industrial money machine, a part of the establishment. -It would be cool if our fans discovered the bands that meant so much to us, says Slash. That's why we wrote "A great song can be found anywhere. Do yourself a favour and go find the originals" in the booklet. It was written so damn much good songs when we grew up. Most of the records are hard to find and several of the musicians are dead, almost everyone are broke. It didn't go well for our heroes.

- I met Steve Jones from the Sex Pistols at Matt's wedding. He asked when the record came out and if our version of Black Leather sounded better then the "cover" the Runaways did. Absolutely, I said, it sounds better then your version too...

The songs for the record was picked by the boys themselves. Slash had his favourites ready: - I wanted to do Nazareth's "Hair of the dog", T-Rex "Buick Makane", and Fears "I don't care about you". Those are songs that meant much to me. Axl always hums on the Skyliners' "Since I don't have you", and he loves "Black leather" so those were his choices.

Duff picked "Down on the farm" by the UK Subs, and we all wanted to a song by the New York Dolls. It became "Human Being".

I don't even play on "Look at your game girl", it's a guy named Carlos...
The Charles Manson song caused a outcry in the press, and Axl had to make an official excuse.

- It was exactly what we wanted to avoid, says Slash. That's the reason why we didn't wrote neither the name of the song or Manson's name. We didn't want to be related with him. But thing never turn out the way you want...
-
- The recordings of the songs were spontaneous and unpainted.
- I love recording like this, means Slash. During Appetite..., Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time. I never liked playing with him. It was wonderful to escape him on this record. It sounds tighter and so much cooler than anything we've done before. I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing. It didn't sound right. Before "Spaghetti", we erased his guitar and Gilby put on a new one. It sounded perfect!
- But it's wrong to call this a punk record, he means. Call it rock instead, cause that's what it is... only rock n' roll.
 

hem.passagen.se/snoqalf/art-199311-OK.html

[Neemo]

I seem to remember that Axl and Slash alone recorded "look at your game girl" and put it on the album and the rest of the band didn't know about it.

I don't think Slash plays on that track.




/jarmo

Do you have an article regarding the controversy of that song jarmo?

Interview Regarding TSI?:

Duff picked "Down on the farm" by the UK Subs, and we all wanted to a song by the New York Dolls. It became "Human Being".

I don't even play on "Look at your game girl", it's a guy named Carlos...
The Charles Manson song caused a outcry in the press, and Axl had to make an official excuse.

- It was exactly what we wanted to avoid, says Slash. That's the reason why we didn't wrote neither the name of the song or Manson's name. We didn't want to be related with him. But thing never turn out the way you want...
-
- The recordings of the songs were spontaneous and unpainted.
- I love recording like this, means Slash. During Appetite..., Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time. I never liked playing with him. It was wonderful to escape him on this record. It sounds tighter and so much cooler than anything we've done before. I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing. It didn't sound right. Before "Spaghetti", we erased his guitar and Gilby put on a new one. It sounded perfect!

Thanks AxlsMainMan! I think thats to article I was talking about

So, Isn't that duff saying he didn't play on the LAYGG track? thats how I read it anyway.

EDIT: I re-read it I think it is Slash saying he doesn't play on the track. weird. Anyway he doesn't seem to have a problem not appearing on it though. but SFTD is a totally different matter? What the fuck is the difference? that what I ask. In fact, I would be more upset being in the dark about a track off of an album than a Movie soundtrack recording. Maybe that's just me, I don't know

Slash has some pretty harsh shit to say about Izzy, eh?
"During Appetite..., Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time?"
"I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing?"
"I never like playing with Izzy?"
"It didn't sound right?"

COME ON!!!

For all you people saying Axl's the only one who dissed Izzy, what do you think of that shit, hmm?

[mrsaxlrose]

I seem to remember that Axl and Slash alone recorded "look at your game girl" and put it on the album and the rest of the band didn't know about it.

I don't think Slash plays on that track.




/jarmo

Do you have an article regarding the controversy of that song jarmo?

Interview Regarding TSI?:

Duff picked "Down on the farm" by the UK Subs, and we all wanted to a song by the New York Dolls. It became "Human Being".

I don't even play on "Look at your game girl", it's a guy named Carlos...
The Charles Manson song caused a outcry in the press, and Axl had to make an official excuse.

- It was exactly what we wanted to avoid, says Slash. That's the reason why we didn't wrote neither the name of the song or Manson's name. We didn't want to be related with him. But thing never turn out the way you want...
-
- The recordings of the songs were spontaneous and unpainted.
- I love recording like this, means Slash. During Appetite..., Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time. I never liked playing with him. It was wonderful to escape him on this record. It sounds tighter and so much cooler than anything we've done before. I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing. It didn't sound right. Before "Spaghetti", we erased his guitar and Gilby put on a new one. It sounded perfect!

Thanks AxlsMainMan! I think thats to article I was talking about

So, Isn't that duff saying he didn't play on the LAYGG track? thats how I read it anyway.

EDIT: I re-read it I think it is Slash saying he doesn't play on the track. weird. Anyway he doesn't seem to have a problem not appearing on it though. but SFTD is a totally different matter? What the fuck is the difference? that what I ask. In fact, I would be more upset being in the dark about a track off of an album than a Movie soundtrack recording. Maybe that's just me, I don't know

Slash has some pretty harsh shit to say about Izzy, eh?
"During Appetite..., Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time?"
"I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing?"
"I never like playing with Izzy?"
"It didn't sound right?"

COME ON!!!

For all you people saying Axl's the only one who dissed Izzy, what do you think of that shit, hmm?

People say things when they are mad.  I am sure Slash was also upset when Izzy left the band in the MIDDLE OF A TOUR!!  They patched things up though, because Izzy worked with him writing songs for VR or something.

The whole thing with SFTD is that Paul Tobias re-recorded some parts, but Slash was not informed of that until after the fact.

[Neemo]

I seem to remember that Axl and Slash alone recorded "look at your game girl" and put it on the album and the rest of the band didn't know about it.

I don't think Slash plays on that track.




/jarmo

Do you have an article regarding the controversy of that song jarmo?

Interview Regarding TSI?:

Duff picked "Down on the farm" by the UK Subs, and we all wanted to a song by the New York Dolls. It became "Human Being".

I don't even play on "Look at your game girl", it's a guy named Carlos...
The Charles Manson song caused a outcry in the press, and Axl had to make an official excuse.

- It was exactly what we wanted to avoid, says Slash. That's the reason why we didn't wrote neither the name of the song or Manson's name. We didn't want to be related with him. But thing never turn out the way you want...
-
- The recordings of the songs were spontaneous and unpainted.
- I love recording like this, means Slash. During Appetite..., Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time. I never liked playing with him. It was wonderful to escape him on this record. It sounds tighter and so much cooler than anything we've done before. I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing. It didn't sound right. Before "Spaghetti", we erased his guitar and Gilby put on a new one. It sounded perfect!

Thanks AxlsMainMan! I think thats to article I was talking about

So, Isn't that duff saying he didn't play on the LAYGG track? thats how I read it anyway.

EDIT: I re-read it I think it is Slash saying he doesn't play on the track. weird. Anyway he doesn't seem to have a problem not appearing on it though. but SFTD is a totally different matter? What the fuck is the difference? that what I ask. In fact, I would be more upset being in the dark about a track off of an album than a Movie soundtrack recording. Maybe that's just me, I don't know

Slash has some pretty harsh shit to say about Izzy, eh?
"During Appetite..., Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time?"
"I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing?"
"I never like playing with Izzy?"
"It didn't sound right?"

COME ON!!!

For all you people saying Axl's the only one who dissed Izzy, what do you think of that shit, hmm?

People say things when they are mad.? I am sure Slash was also upset when Izzy left the band in the MIDDLE OF A TOUR!!? They patched things up though, because Izzy worked with him writing songs for VR or something.

The whole thing with SFTD is that Paul Tobias re-recorded some parts, but Slash was not informed of that until after the fact.

Those comments were like 2 years after Izzy left!!!! And if Slash knew about the recording of LayGG then why would some Carlos jackass play on it and not Slash? Did he pull an Adler and twirl drumsticks in his hair while they played? gimme a fuckin' break.

[mrsaxlrose]

Those comments were like 2 years after Izzy left!!!! And if Slash knew about the recording of LayGG then why would some Carlos jackass play on it and not Slash? Did he pull an Adler and twirl drumsticks in his hair while they played? gimme a fuckin' break.

Maybe he just didn't want to play on it.  He wasn't upset about not playing on LAYGG.  He was upset about guitar parts being re-recorded for SFTD.  And as for comments about Izzy, I am sure Slash and Izzy made their peace as Izzy came back to GNR for a bit in 1995, and then Izzy has worked with VR.

[Neemo]

Those comments were like 2 years after Izzy left!!!! And if Slash knew about the recording of LayGG then why would some Carlos jackass play on it and not Slash? Did he pull an Adler and twirl drumsticks in his hair while they played? gimme a fuckin' break.

Maybe he just didn't want to play on it.? He wasn't upset about not playing on LAYGG.? He was upset about guitar parts being re-recorded for SFTD.? And as for comments about Izzy, I am sure Slash and Izzy made their peace as Izzy came back to GNR for a bit in 1995, and then Izzy has worked with VR.

I'm sure they've kissed and made up too, but Axl and izzy must've too because he came back to GnR (for a short time) right? anyway thats not the argument. I just pointed out that Axl was not the only one who slammed Izzy.

About the LAYGG track, personally, if it was me, I would be more pissed off that a track, which was on an official album (and their last studio release too i might add) when I didn't know it was even recorded,  than I would be at some of my parts being redone on a secondary track on a soundtrack. Slash's lead was still on SFTD right?

As to slash not wanting to play on that track, I don't agree with that at all. Slash was a huge part of GnR why would he not want to play guitar on a song? Doesn't make sense to me.