The GN'R vs Nirvana thread

[Hammy]

I wonder where Nirvana's so called fans are now, when they released the best off it couldn't even stay in the top 20 for long. They've forgotten about Kurt and Nirvana and for good reason they were shit.

I agree on them being shit but music is all about personal taste that is just my viewpoint but to say that people have forgotten about Kurt Cobain/Nirvana is a joke dude fact he/they will never be forgotten.  Every year for his anniversary the music channels always go overboard more so than they do for people such as Elvis Presley, Jim Morrison & Jimi Hendrix.  And the amount of people i see walking round in Nirvana Hoodies/T-Shirts, it's way more than the Guns N' Roses ones i can't fail to go into a Rock Club without seeing a bunch of Nirvana fans.  At the end of the day is has gone down in rock history and a load of people's memories and he will remain there.

[bolton]

why everybody said duuff was in plane with cobain,i said cobain was in plane with duff,because duff was part of much much bigger band than cobain's Nirvana was

[jarmo]

I did a search for Kurt in the GN'R and Dead Horse sections and found these threads for the last 90 days or so:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=12150
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=11580
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=11599



/jarmo

[volcano62]

The guy is fucking dead, leave him alone . I'm sure Axl doesen't lose any sleep over Kurt Kobain. (don't argue, in the album Bleach it's spelled that way)

[Freya]

or the other alt-rock nazis that roamed the earth during that time.

lol, this is funny.  I agree with what you said, it was elitism 100%.  

[W.Bailey]

My take is Kurt really had no right to say anything...

the guy was a junkie... just because he thought he was better because they didn't live the "rockstar lifestyle"

i mean with all due respect the guy was a drug addict and killed himself... and im not saying i was happy about that even thought i hated him...but who was he to talk?

i agree with the person that said he def had a love/hate thing for axl.... and ya know axl probably had the same thing for him



oh yeah thats hysterical how Duff wanted to beat up chris....hahaha

[W.Bailey]

oh yeah... i am not even familiar with Negative Creep

but Velvet revolver should close there shows with one of their own fucking songs

[MrBen]

I think Kurt was just like AXL, and he knew it. It was this part of his personality that his punk rock 'ethics' could not let him be and so naturally he was jealous of Axl.


Fact: In the late 80's kurt would wear a bandana, just like AXL

Fact: In the biography of Kurt called 'heavier than heaven' there is a story of how Kurt spat on some of his fans who wanted autographs because he thought they were jocks.People only seem to write the good stuff about Kurt and the bad stuff about Axl, I think they are very alike and would have been good pals.

[MrBen]

Whatever you think of Kurt/Nirvana you can't say that he was talantless....... I mean come on???

Personally I think a lot of the praise that he gets is misplaced, his famous songs are not his best, Nevermind is a poor representation of his overall songwriting. He was a lot better than that album.

Want proof??

Check out: 'Aero Zeppelin' - man  this song is one of the best riff fests ever written,

[MadmanDan]

I don;t give a shit about Axl being a homophobe or a racist.He could be a serial killer,but the fact is he can sing and write awesome music,while Cobain couldn't.He was just the voice of a frustrated unadapted to society part of a generation

[Lord Kayoss]

How could Cobain have the gall to call anyone in GN'R talentless!?  Did he ever once actually sit back and read over his retarded-ass lyrics?  Jealousy does some strange things to people.  I guess he (Kurt) figured if he couldn't sell more records than Guns he would just dis them at every given opportunity and try to turn people against them.  Yeah, that strategy really worked.

I like some of Nirvana's music but I gotta quote someone from this site who posted this in regards to the bull-shit Cobain went on and on about:

"Big talk for a guy with no head."

 

[Freya]

Fact: In the late 80's kurt would wear a bandana, just like AXL

OMG, would I like to see a picture of that.  I think these boys were in love with each other.  

[badgirl]

Fact: In the late 80's kurt would wear a bandana, just like AXL

OMG, would I like to see a picture of that.  I think these boys were in love with each other.  

  totally.
One thing i wanted to add. People talk about Kurt being the anti-rock star. That is total bullshit. One of the things that makes him such a paradoxical figure was the fact that he hated fame and courted it at the same time. He (and this was another similarity he shared with Axl) read his own press all the time, quoted it, responded to it, etc... I am not the first person to point out this discrepency in what Kurt said and what he did. Writers and casual observers have mentioned this for years, how Kurt would blast fame yet pose for Rolling Stone, hate the press, yet follow every word they wrote about him.
But, if you believe like i do that actions speak louder than words, Kurt WAS most definitely a rock star. Just a different kind.

[blues_rock_axeman]

Kurt Cobain was part of a generation in which being homophobic is even less accepted than being homosexual used to.

He saw it as his duty to stick up for the minorities, and he started the evident trend of 'rock' musicians getting involved in issues that are a very long way out of their comprehension, eg the farcical 'Rock Against Bush' CD  

[JamieG]

Kurt was such a paradox- he was sensitive but he was also a fucking jerk.  

And speaking of that remark by Badgirl, this is another remark Cobain made in another interview in which he was bashing Axl.

They were talking about how Novoselic hit himself on the head with his guitar at the MTV awards and Cobain used that to change the subject to Axl again.

 http://www.guitarworld.com/artistindex/9612.cobain.html

[[GW: I thought it was great when Chris hit his head with the guitar at the end of your performance that evening. You're all trying to be cool and smash up your instruments, and he really fucked it up-it's really good!

COBAIN: That's happened so many times.

GW: An impressive finale, and you end up looking really stupid, but that's great too.

COBAIN: It was so expected, you know? Should we just walk off the stage, or should we break our equipment again? We went through so many emotions that day, because up until just minutes before we played, we weren't sure we were going to go on. We wanted to play "Rape Me," and MTV wouldn't let us. They were going to replace us if we didn't play "Teen Spirit." We compromised and ended up playing "Lithium." I spat on Axl's keyboards when we were sitting on the stage. It was either that or beat him up. We're down on this platform that brought us up hydraulically, you know? I saw his piano there, and I just had to take this opportunity and spit big goobers all over his keyboards. I hope he didn't get it off in time. ]]

I think there was a bit of a spitting theme to Kurt Cobain. In other interviews about his life, Kurt used to say when he was in school he used to get really drunk go to parties and spit on the backs of jocks and laugh that they never knew. So I definitely think there's truth to the theory that he transferred that hate onto Axl and saw Axl as the same of the people he hated in school.

Has anyone ever questioned whether Kurt Cobain was what he said he was? He always said he was beaten up at school and everything.....but I don't know about you and how your schools were, but from what I know, the "unpopular" kids, the ones branded losers by the "cool" people,  the ones who were picked on and tormented, weren't going to parties drunk and spitting on people. That was usually what the "cool" people did, the ones that Cobain said he hated...

[JamieG]

If he himself wasn't gay (and who the hell knows, maybe he was), then why did he care if Axl was a homophobe or not?  

Sorry, but I think this is the worst comment in this thread.  You don't need to be the victim of something yourself to find something offensive or wrong.

In other words, you don't need to be the one discriminated against to be outraged by something.

Here's what I found very admirable about Kurt Cobain. Here's a guy who came out and said if you're homophobic, racist, sexist, etc....then don't buy our records, don't go to our shows, we don't want you're fucking money. So many people in music simply want to sell as many records/CD's as possible, not many of them would tell a whole throng of people to NOT buy their records. It was an especialy gutsy thing to say for someone whose audience basically were macho teenagers as at the time Nirvana was the music of choice for the "cool" people at school.

Regardless of whether you personally support the way he felt about these issues yourself, there's no denying that someone who stands up for what they believe in deserves respect for doing so.

And another thing to that point that I liked about Cobain, the first interview that I posted, that came from the magazine "The Advocate"...the gay magazine. So many musicians or actors are so afraid or offended at being called gay, that they would never do such a thing. Here's someone, Kurt Cobain, who was not gay (he just didn't care if people said he was) yet he stuck to his principles and did the interview with them regardless of what it would do for his popularity with the mainstream fans and media.

[Dr H Lecter]

Hmmm, Kurt Cobain. I have said everything I wanted to say about him already so I dont believe it necessary to re hash the same old stuff except that anyone who called what is widely regarded as one of the best band of all time as "talentless", "pathetic" needs to rethink his position on things (well I suppose he can't now).

[JamieG]

.  As for Axl being homophobic that's BS.  That line in One In A Million was not meant to generate to the whole world it was just how he felt through personal experience.  Since the time of that song he's performed with Elton John 2wice.  The Freddy Mercury Tribute Concert (where they hugged at the end) and the 1992 MTV VMA's.  Now Elton John obviously has no problem with him

Since when is Elton John the judge? Because one gay person with an agenda deems publicly (by singing on stage with a certain person) certainly doesn't make it so. Let's not forget that a couple of years ago Elton John also performed with Eminem (who I basically think is a complete idiot) at an Awards show, who also said "anti-gay" things...

Yes Elton John is gay, but he is also a performer who is going on tours and trying to sell records. Hmmmm....he performed with Axl in 1992 when Axl was arguably the most popular singer in the world at the time and then Elton John performed with Eminem who (sadly!) was arguably the most popular performer at the time. Hmmm...is there an agenda there? Perform with someone who has a ton of fans and popularity and hope that by them endorsing you, that you might gain a few of their fans.

So Axl performing with Elton John or vice versa doesn't mean anything to me. And as I said before, Axl liked the music of Elton John and Freddy Mercury ever before he knew anything about them personally.

Personally, there is no doubt in my mind that Axl is homophobic. Have you ever heard Axl talk about "One in a Million"? I have. You could tell he was very upset at being branded a racist, went out of his way to defend himself and say he wasn't a racist, you could tell he was very heart-felt in trying to say that he wasn't a racist.....yet when the subject came to the "faggot" references, Axl didn't defend himself much, didn't seem that upset about it like did about the racial comments. The interview said that Axl started to say something about one experience he had in LA where a guy was coming on to him...and then kind of shrugged and said he didn't want to defend himself.

The differences between Axl's reaction to being called a racist and being labelled homophobic spoke volumes! One greatly seemed to bother him and one didn't. Hmmm...

Now for me it doesn't take away that Axl is a great musician and a brilliant songwriter, but let's not fool anybody. He's a homophobe.

Just one thing that bothers me about these discussions, I think the word "homophobic" is the most mis-used word in the english language. Of course, "Phobic" means fear. So homophobic implies that someone is afraid of gay people. I've heard some people try to break it down as well, hatred comes from ignroance and that ignorance is fear...or something dumb like that.

I don't really think that someone who is definitely homophobic, like those religious freaks, like the Jerry Falwell's are afraid of gay people. It's that they have a hatred and deeply discriminatory against those people.

So when I use the word homophobic, that's what I mean, a hatred, not that I'm saying Axl is "afraid" of gay people.

 

[JamieG]

I did a search for Kurt in the GN'R and Dead Horse sections and found these threads for the last 90 days or so:

Thanks for the links, Jarmo. The only one that I missed, was the second one, which is the only one that I think is decent in terms of the discussion. The first link, there isn't much discussion in that one and the third one is just comparing record sales.

Anyways, I think this thread is a great one with a lot of intelligent posts on both sides of the subject. Again, I apologize to the people who are on the board regularly that see the same subjects come up repeatedly, but sometimes discussions can be better when there's new people contributing to them or are adding new opinions or posting new facts or interviews relating tot he subject.

And if it really bothers someone that much, of course they don't need to click on the thread and they don't need to read it if they don't want to.

[Freya]

I spat on Axl's keyboards when we were sitting on the stage.

Funny fact.  Kurt actually found out later that he spat on Elton John's side of the piano.  lol, oh the irony.

I don't know how old you are Jamie, but I believe that Kurt's whole obsession with ignorant jocks liking his music is a bunch of hooie.  There was no doubt at that time, that the "cool" kids liked Nirvana.  GnR fans were not looked at as cool at all.

I have to run back to work, I'll finish later but about the gay issue, there is some evidence that Kurt at least thought about experimenting with his sexuality, whether that was sincere or not I don't know.  Finish later.