The GN'R vs Nirvana thread

[JamieG]

The fact that he agreed to preform on the same stage with a gay person for millions of people to see is a pretty damn good indication that he is not afraid of gay people and he doesn't hate them as a group. Not that I care if Axl was "homophobic" but the facts just don't add up.

Again, Elton John (and Freddy Mercury for that matter) are the exceptions because they were Axl's musical heroes!

Let me rephrase it -- if you were gay and a music superstar whom Axl grew up listening to before he knew a thing about you personally, than you're immune to Axl's hatred and bigotry. If not, you're out of luck. Far more people fall into the latter category.

Please answer this question honestly: If you were gay, would you fear telling him you were gay, do you think he react negatively, which can be any of the following -- insultingly, discrimatory, or violently; basically, would he automatically think less of you simply if they knew you were gay?

You would honestly say no? Come on.

[GNR - CROATIA]

This topics are so pothetic that it is sad I have to answer them all the time.
But as long as I see people saying shit about NIRVANA in order to protect some prick who gets in fight with everyone including all his ex bandmembers who made him who he is and his own family - I have to.
When the hell are you people gonna stop wondering about fights other people had who you don't even know?
You are having such topics over and over and over again and Kurt has been dead for over 10 years now!
How little do you brains have to be in order for you to say 'this band is better than that one!'?
Why the hell can't you say you are lucky that you've been around when NIRVANA,  GNR,  SMASHING PUMPKINS and METTALICA were around?
(I know,  most of the people bashing other bands are the ones who were 5 or 6 back then and are bashing cause they got involved with thoose bands when it was all over so they neither have understandings nor the feelings about or for that bands!  Which is sad!).
FACT IS AXL is a homophobe - ONE IN A MILLION!
FACT IS AXL is a sexsist - count all the 'bitches',  no women or girls.
FACT IS AXL wanted to play with NIRVANA NOT VICE VERSA.
FACT IS AXL began bashing NIRVANA after he was rejected by NIRVANA.
Why does NIRVANA have to play with someone else or be opener at the point in time they could headline everything they wanted?
If you were NIRVANA MOST of you would've played alone or would be stupid if you didn't!
After all,  in a democratic world doesn't one have a choice to do what he wants?
What did NIRVANA miss by not playing with GNR/METALLICA?
The bashing from AXL that METALLICA got cause poor James was the 'star' of the tour although he got second degree burns.
But no, eh, AXL is cool,  eh!  Everyone else sucks!   YOU ARE SAD!

FACT IS AXL BASHED his FAMILY,  METALLICA,  NIRVANA,  SLASH,  DUFF, MATT,  IZZY, GILBY and everyone else apart from that 'AXL head nodder' DIZZY,  and everyone else he ever contacted,  met, or knew about.

FACT IS AXL is a great songwriter (with the people that don't work with him anymore),  great showman.  but a bad voice squeezing singer who doesn't give shit about his fans!  (For how long are you NIRVANA and ex members bashers waiting for your album?  Well,  there you go,  I am happy for you!   Guess what?    You may die of natural cause before you super idol Axl gives you the next album!).

FACT IS Chris did get in fight with DUFF'S gorillas but NOT DUFF!
DUFF was one of the last people to see Kurt and was about to offer him a ride home when Kurt dissapeared.
SLASH (whose albums are not sad like some of you put it,  but GREAT!  Face it both IFOS and ALG are not only far better than anything AXL recorded since 1991,  but far better than anything AXL will EVER record with this line up!),  wrote a very nice song called LOWER about his feelings when he heard about Kurt on TV.

FACT IS AXL today would've been lucky to have a job like medicine tester or any of the ones he had in the past hadn't he had guys like SLASH,  DUFF,  MATT,  GILBY, IZZY or STEVE!
This guys made him who he was and saying such stuff like he did about them is - SAD!
Whoever says such rubbish about the people who made you who you are is nothing but a piece of junk for me!
And that is the reason why SMASHING PUMPKINS and NIRVANA are up by 1% on my scale  compared to GNR.

I fully stand by everything I said right here and don't give a damn if you like it or not.  Don't give a damn if you'll bash me or not.
Most of you have such pure lives that you can't do anything else but bash,  bash,  bash whole day long cause only that makes you feel bigger,  better and greater!

Finally,  what role do AXL 's and KURT's disputes play in your life that you pay such huge bills for them?
You don't even know thoose people!   It would be like me talking about you and your mom's fight...

[POPmetal]

Another thing that I admired about Kurt Cobain was that he was perhaps one of the most honest people I've ever read in interviews.

In my opinion, that was one of the most contrived interviews I've ever read. Kurt is a great promoter and he did an excellent job of pandering to the Advocate's audience with his calculated attacks on GN'R.

I wouldn't call it pandering or being a great promoter. By great promoter you imply he says stuff just to sell records, I disagree, it's just the opposite.

Yes, Kurt stood up for what he believed in and he didn't do an interview with the Advocate just to sell records, but he did use his attacks on GN'R to appeal to the audience of that particular magazine. I don't see how it's the "opposite."

The number of people he would reach by doing an interview with the Advocate magazine is FAR less than what their base audience was or could have been -- as we've discussed -- high school kids who liked Nirvana because they were the cool thing at the time.

Yes, but nobody said that wasn't case. Certainly Nirvana's fan base didn't come from just reading one interview with the Advocate.  You're just stating the obvious.

If anything, doing an interview with the Advocate could alienate many people (the macho/cool high school kids) who were far more likely to by Nirvana stuff.  

Most people, especially high school kids, don't read the Advocate and wouldn't know even know about the interview, so I don't see how it would alienate them. But are you gonna tell me that Kurt did a bad job of promoting himself to the audience (that's the people who actually read it) of the Advocate?

[POPmetal]

The fact that he agreed to preform on the same stage with a gay person for millions of people to see is a pretty damn good indication that he is not afraid of gay people and he doesn't hate them as a group. Not that I care if Axl was "homophobic" but the facts just don't add up.

Again, Elton John (and Freddy Mercury for that matter) are the exceptions because they were Axl's musical heroes!

Let me rephrase it -- if you were gay and a music superstar whom Axl grew up listening to before he knew a thing about you personally, than you're immune to Axl's hatred and bigotry. If not, you're out of luck. Far more people fall into the latter category.

If Ax's "hatred and bigotry" is as strong as you make it out to be, I don't see how they could possibly be exceptions. Either way, a "homophobic" person would not preform on the same stage with a gay person for millions of people to see.

Please answer this question honestly: If you were gay, would you fear telling him you were gay, do you think he react negatively, which can be any of the following -- insultingly, discrimatory, or violently; basically, would he automatically think less of you simply if they knew you were gay?

You would honestly say no? Come on.

First of all, people have a right to think less of you if they knew you were gay. Humans are biased creatures. We are all biased in one way or another. You can't accuse someone of "homophobia" simply because they don't like homosexuals. Most people who make such accusations quickly expose themselves as hypocrites.

Now, do I think Axl will be insulting, discriminatory, or violent to a gay person just because he's gay? Absolutely not! Read the story about the Seattle Gold's Gym. I just don't see any evidence of the 'hatred and bigotry' you speak of.  So to answer your question, if I was gay, I would honestly not fear telling Axl I was gay.

[Freya]

#2. The people who wants to beat the fuck out of somebody simpy because they are a "faggot", the Matthew Sheppard beating and murder being the extreme -- I think it's fair to say Axl would fit into this category also.

Oh, that's just not so.  That is really, really harsh.  If anything, I believe Axl tried to "project" a macho image, because he was insecure about his own masculinity.  That is a world away from beating an innocent person because you don't agree with their lifestyle.  Axl had referred to being a "90 pound weakling" when he was in high school and Ian Astbury mentioned once that Axl told him the reason he got tattoos was so he wouldn't look so feminine.  Cops harassed Axl once because they thought he was a woman from behind and were embarassed.  You know Axl has always been a "sensitive" personality into music and art, he's hardly the thug people think he is.  He was a big fan of the Pet Shop Boys and met them at their performance art concert and sent them flowers the next day.  I would have no problem telling him I was a gay man, if I were either of those things.  

 

Cobain hated the stereotypical "rock star" life, the life of luxury.  

And geez, this is another misconception that has become lore.  KC wanted to be perceived as punk, but he was extremely career savvy.  When Nevermind hit, he went to his manager and demanded that he find them a nice place to live.  Courtney herself said that when they played some international concert that Kurt got the full "W. Axl Rose treatment" and he was the "happiest she'd ever seen him."  lol  Kurt was very concerned about appearing honest and raw, but he was very calculated about it.  lol

And lie?  Well I'll say exaggerate, the guy told tales, i.e. he never lived under a bridge.  

My Axl/Kurt related thought of the day?  In his suicide not Kurt wrote he was just "too sensitive", Cobain was too sensitive about the world, and Axl is too sensitive about himself.  

(Cobain) At one point he said he wished he was gay just so he could piss off certain people.

See?  He identified with gay people as "picked on", women as well, and was forever trying to tweak his childhood bullies.  Axl, otoh, rejected all aspects of victimization and came out swinging.  Both personalities are interesting studies.  

 
 

[badapple81]

FACT..SLASH (whose albums are not sad like some of you put it,  but GREAT!  Face it both IFOS and ALG are not only far better than anything AXL recorded since 1991,  but far better than anything AXL will EVER record with this line up!),  wrote a very nice song called LOWER about his feelings when he heard about Kurt on TV.

Who are you kidding?!?!? IFOS and ALG are pieces of poo!

By the way, thats opinion not fact!

Axl bashed his family? Perhaps you need to read into the background of why he did that..

[badapple81]

GN'R talentless? Besides 3 or 4 songs on nevermind, I'd say Kurt is the more talentless one.. (my opinion)..

Maybe he would have enjoyed the rock star lifestyle too if he was alive long enough while Nirvana were big.. before the junkie shot himself.

[matt88]

GN'R talentless? Besides 3 or 4 songs on nevermind, I'd say Kurt is the more talentless one.. (my opinion)..

Maybe he would have enjoyed the rock star lifestyle too if he was alive long enough while Nirvana were big.. before the junkie shot himself.

Nah i only like 2 Nirvana songs and they are pretty much the same. Ur right Cobain is talentless who made publicity over nothing.

[Fretzo]

The one good thing that can be said about Kurt is that since 1991 he has released more original material than Axl. And Kurt has had the severe disadvantage of being dead for 10 years.

[SlashFan]

Kurt was just jelous of Axl and GN'Rs success,he knew that his music wouldn't be as long lasting as GN'R and he knew that he couldn't sing or play guitar worth a shit

[neuby87]

Well what I have to say is that I think Kurt Cobain is a big dickhead who is way overated, I used to respect the guy he was good but not as good aseveryone thinks, but once I read this and a Nirvana book sayin he "was a 100 times better then fuckin guns n' roses" then i lost all respect for him and i think he's the biggest cock muncher in the world!

[jarmo]

Is this a Nirvana board?

All these threads about Kurt Cobain makes me wonder.

Should we expect threads for every musician / celebrity who doesn't like Axl/GN'R?




/jarmo

[JamieG]

Is this a Nirvana board?

All these threads about Kurt Cobain makes me wonder.

Should we expect threads for every musician / celebrity who doesn't like Axl/GN'R?
/jarmo

I totally disagree. No disrepect intended, Jarmo, but that's a ridiculous  and narrow minded statement.

The Nirvana/Guns N' Roses fued is a notable period in the history of GNR. Even in the Much Music special the other day, they did a segment about it. And most of the guys talked about it, Slash, Matt, Duff, and Gilby. And they noted that when Nirvana broke big, that's when GNR's rock n roll excess image and their macho image (that we're talking about in this thread) was looked down upon. They even said that it was right around this time that the big rift between Axl and the rest of the band blew into full swing and Matt even said that when this all happened, GNR just went away.

And more specifically, Axl Rose and Kurt Cobain are arguably the 2 most controversial and intriguing singers in the last 20 years of music. So it is interesting to a lot of people to discuss what happened during that brief period where their two paths crossed.  

[JamieG]

Quote:
(Cobain) At one point he said he wished he was gay just so he could piss off certain people.
 
See?  He identified with gay people as "picked on", women as well, and was forever trying to tweak his childhood bullies.  Axl, otoh, rejected all aspects of victimization and came out swinging.  Both personalities are interesting studies.

So, in other words, Kurt stood up for what he believed in and Axl became what he hated?

[JamieG]

Most people, especially high school kids, don't read the Advocate and wouldn't know even know about the interview, so I don't see how it would alienate them. But are you gonna tell me that Kurt did a bad job of promoting himself to the audience (that's the people who actually read it) of the Advocate?

I agree that most High School kids don't read the Advocate, but they can hear about it because an interview like that gets picked up by other news sources. I'm sure there were some of "Hey Nirvana was in that faggot magazine!"

It's not a good move if you're trying to appeal to that audience.

Kurt didn't do a bad job or a good job of "promoting" himself to the Advocate...I don't think there was any "promoting" involved. He was simply doing something which he believed in. He believed in gay rights so why not do an interview with the most well-known gay magazine? It was the same thing as him doing the benefit show against homophobia or writing in the liner notes that if anyone has hatred for gays, they don't want you to buy their records or go to their shows.

Some people here are those things, so of course some here don't like what Cobain said, but you need to admire his principles. And it was those principles which made him hate Axl. Personally I'm able to separate Axl's personal views on some of those subjects and his talent as a singer and song writer, but obviously Kurt had more principles than I did and couldn't bring himself to say anything positive about someone whom he despised.

There's no way of ever knowing, but it would be interesting to know whether "One in a Million" did more damage to Axl's popularity and image or did more good (as in gaining fans). Because I know people who love that song and agree with everything Axl says and they love the hatred in which he says those words in that song. I have a friend who thinks everything he says in that song is true and love Axl for saying it. So that song did make Axl appeal to a certain type of person.

So it would be really interesting to know whether he lost more fans because of it or gained more fans?

And if he could do it again, I wonder if he would do it again? Personally, I think he knew that he would appeal to some people and knew that the mainstream media and the human rights groups would villify him for it, which is probably what he was going for (controversy). What I don't think Axl was counting on was for someone who was also a "rock God" to come out on the other side of the issue and hold him accountable for it. Know what I mean? It's one thing if you get a bunch politicians or human rights organaization leaders saying "he's a bad guy" but it's another thing when someone who is now viewed is "cool" worshipped by the kids and people who can be part of your audience, holds Axl accountable for it.

[POPmetal]

Most people, especially high school kids, don't read the Advocate and wouldn't know even know about the interview, so I don't see how it would alienate them. But are you gonna tell me that Kurt did a bad job of promoting himself to the audience (that's the people who actually read it) of the Advocate?

I agree that most High School kids don't read the Advocate, but they can hear about it because an interview like that gets picked up by other news sources. I'm sure there were some of "Hey Nirvana was in that faggot magazine!"

It's not a good move if you're trying to appeal to that audience.

Kurt didn't do a bad job or a good job of "promoting" himself to the Advocate...I don't think there was any "promoting" involved. He was simply doing something which he believed in. He believed in gay rights so why not do an interview with the most well-known gay magazine? It was the same thing as him doing the benefit show against homophobia or writing in the liner notes that if anyone has hatred for gays, they don't want you to buy their records or go to their shows.

Some people here are those things, so of course some here don't like what Cobain said, but you need to admire his principles. And it was those principles which made him hate Axl. Personally I'm able to separate Axl's personal views on some of those subjects and his talent as a singer and song writer, but obviously Kurt had more principles than I did and couldn't bring himself to say anything positive about someone whom he despised.

There's no way of ever knowing, but it would be interesting to know whether "One in a Million" did more damage to Axl's popularity and image or did more good (as in gaining fans). Because I know people who love that song and agree with everything Axl says and they love the hatred in which he says those words in that song. I have a friend who thinks everything he says in that song is true and love Axl for saying it. So that song did make Axl appeal to a certain type of person.

So it would be really interesting to know whether he lost more fans because of it or gained more fans?

And if he could do it again, I wonder if he would do it again? Personally, I think he knew that he would appeal to some people and knew that the mainstream media and the human rights groups would villify him for it, which is probably what he was going for (controversy). What I don't think Axl was counting on was for someone who was also a "rock God" to come out on the other side of the issue and hold him accountable for it. Know what I mean? It's one thing if you get a bunch politicians or human rights organaization leaders saying "he's a bad guy" but it's another thing when someone who is now viewed is "cool" worshipped by the kids and people who can be part of your audience, holds Axl accountable for it.

 


I don't think Axl cared what anyone thought, regardless of whether it was mainstream media or another "rock god." He was not accountable to anyone, least of all to Kurt Cobain  Nor did Kurt hold him "accountable." Kurt launched such attacks against GN'R on gay friendly venues like the Advocate. Back in 1992, that interview would not have gone down well with the majority of MTV's audience. If Kurt really cared that much for Axl's homophobic lyrics, he would have been as vocal a critic of GN'R's "homophobia" when he was on MTV, not just on magazines that happen to be read by gay people and people who are friendly to the gay agenda. But that goes back to Kurt being a good promoter.

[JamieG]

I don't think Axl cared what anyone thought, regardless of whether it was mainstream media or another "rock god." He was not accountable to anyone, least of all to Kurt Cobain

You don't think there was a plan behind the things Axl did? If so, I think you're grossly underestimating Axl's ability to get publicity (bad publicity, but it helps them sell records). I'm not saying he did things simply to cause controversy, but I do believe that he put them out knowing the controversy it would generate (another example being doing the Charles Manson song -- good way to have everyone talking about your new record).

 Nor did Kurt hold him "accountable." Kurt launched such attacks against GN'R on gay friendly venues like the Advocate. Back in 1992, that interview would not have gone down well with the majority of MTV's audience. If Kurt really cared that much for Axl's homophobic lyrics, he would have been as vocal a critic of GN'R's "homophobia" when he was on MTV, not just on magazines that happen to be read by gay people and people who are friendly to the gay agenda. But that goes back to Kurt being a good promoter.

I can't believe that your suggesting this, you're saying that Kurt Cobain was pandering to a gay audience in hopes of increasing his record sales? There's a reason why people use the term "minority" groups, and in this case he wasn't reaching a very large number of people.

Finally, the reason why I think you're totally mistaken about this is the fact that Kurt just didn't talk this way in the Advocate interview. He said some of the same type of things in an interview with GUITAR WORLD...certainly not something known for having a gay audience...Your theory might have validity if he only said those things in the one interview with the Advocate, but as this proves, he didn't, he did it in other interviews. He was just being himself (and like I said, incredibly honest) and doing what he believed in. An admirable quality.

 http://www.guitarworld.com/artistindex/9610.cobain.html

GW: Tell me about your high school experience. Were people unpleasant to you?

COBAIN: I was a scapegoat, but not in the sense that people picked on me all the time. They didn't pick on me or beat me up because I was already so withdrawn by that time. I was so antisocial that I was almost insane. I felt so different and so crazy that people just left me alone. I wouldn't have been surprised if they had voted me Most Likely To Kill Everyone At A High School Dance.

GW: Can you now understand how some people become so alienated that they become violent?

COBAIN: Yeah, I can definitely see how a person's mental state could deteriorate to the point where they would do that. I've gotten to the point where I've fantasized about it, but I'm sure I would opt to kill myself first. But still, I've always loved revenge movies about high school dances, stuff like Carrie.

GW: When did you start to think about sexism? Was it an outgrowth of your interest in punk?

COBAIN: No, it was before that. I could never find any good male friends, so I ended up hanging out with the girls a lot, and I just felt that they weren't being treated equally and they weren't treated with respect. I hated the way Aberdeen treated women in general-they were just totally oppressed. The words "bitch" and "cunt" were totally common, you'd hear them all the time. But it took me many years after the fact to realize those were the things that were bothering me. I was just starting to understand what was pissing me off so much, and in the last couple of years of high school, I found punk rock and it all came together. I finally understood that I wasn't retarded, you know?

GW: Did you ever have problems with people thinking you were gay?

COBAIN: Yeah. Even I thought that I was gay. Although I never experimented with it, I thought that might be the solution to my problem. I had a gay friend, and that was the only time that I ever experienced real confrontation from people. Like I said, for so many years they were basically afraid of me, but when I started hanging out with this guy, Myer Loftin, who was known to be gay, they started giving me a lot of shit, trying to beat me up and stuff. Then my mother wouldn't allow me to be friends with him anymore because she's homophobic.

GW: So did you stop?

COBAIN: Yeah. It was real devastating because finally I'd found a male friend who I could actually talk to and be affectionate with, and I was told I couldn't hang out with him anymore. Around that same time, I was putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. He played a big role in that.

GUITAR WORLD: Your lyrics contain some provocative gay references, in particular the line, "Everyone is gay" from "All Apologies." Is that a reflection of that time?

KURT COBAIN: I wouldn't say it was a reflection of that time. I'm just carrying on with my beliefs now. I guess it is [provocative] in a commercial sense, because of how many albums we've sold.

GW: It's very unusual to find bands talking about those kinds of things, particularly in the format that you're using, which is basically male rock.

COBAIN: Yeah, but I think it's getting better, though, now that "alternative music" is finally getting accepted, although that's a pretty sad term, as far as I'm concerned. But at least the consciousness is there, and that's really healthy for the younger generation.

GW: Have you had any problems from the industry or fans because of your gay references?

COBAIN: Never. Pansy Division covered "Teen Spirit" and reworked the words to "Smells Like Queer Spirit," and thanked us in the liner notes. I think it said, "Thank you to Nirvana for taking the most pro-gay stance of any commercially successful rock band." That was a real flattering thing. It's just that it's nothing new to any of my friends, because of the music we've been listening to for the last 15 years.

I suppose things are different now. If you watch MTV, they have these "Free Your Mind" segments in the news hour, where they report on gay issues and stuff like that. Pretty much in subtle ways they remind everyone how sexist the wave of heavy metal was throughout the entire Eighties, because all that stuff is almost completely dead. It's dying fast. I find it really funny to see a lot of those groups like Poison-not even Poison, but Warrant and Skid Row, bands like that-desperately clinging to their old identities, but now trying to have an alternative angle in their music. It gives me a small thrill to know that I've helped in a small way to get rid of those people-or maybe at least to make them think about what they've done in the last 10 years. Nothing has changed, really, except for bands like Soul Asylum who've been around for like 12 years, have been struggling in bars forever, and now have their pretty faces on MTV. Still, they have a better attitude than the metal people. I think it's healthier. I'd much rather have that than the old stuff. [end of quoting interview]

How can anyone read that and say he did not believe in it or was just trying to sell records? He was just doing what he believed in and in doing that it led to his hatred for Axl.

[POPmetal]

I don't think Axl cared what anyone thought, regardless of whether it was mainstream media or another "rock god." He was not accountable to anyone, least of all to Kurt Cobain

You don't think there was a plan behind the things Axl did? If so, I think you're grossly underestimating Axl's ability to get publicity (bad publicity, but it helps them sell records). I'm not saying he did things simply to cause controversy, but I do believe that he put them out knowing the controversy it would generate (another example being doing the Charles Manson song -- good way to have everyone talking about your new record).

Like I said, I don't think Axl cared who criticized him, least of all Kurt Cobain. I never said Axl didn't plan things. Axl was also great at getting publicity.

 Nor did Kurt hold him "accountable." Kurt launched such attacks against GN'R on gay friendly venues like the Advocate. Back in 1992, that interview would not have gone down well with the majority of MTV's audience. If Kurt really cared that much for Axl's homophobic lyrics, he would have been as vocal a critic of GN'R's "homophobia" when he was on MTV, not just on magazines that happen to be read by gay people and people who are friendly to the gay agenda. But that goes back to Kurt being a good promoter.

I can't believe that your suggesting this, you're saying that Kurt Cobain was pandering to a gay audience in hopes of increasing his record sales? There's a reason why people use the term "minority" groups, and in this case he wasn't reaching a very large number of people.

Finally, the reason why I think you're totally mistaken about this is the fact that Kurt just didn't talk this way in the Advocate interview. He said some of the same type of things in an interview with GUITAR WORLD...certainly not something known for having a gay audience...Your theory might have validity if he only said those things in the one interview with the Advocate, but as this proves, he didn't, he did it in other interviews. He was just being himself (and like I said, incredibly honest) and doing what he believed in. An admirable quality.

 http://www.guitarworld.com/artistindex/9610.cobain.html

GW: Tell me about your high school experience. Were people unpleasant to you?

COBAIN: I was a scapegoat, but not in the sense that people picked on me all the time. They didn't pick on me or beat me up because I was already so withdrawn by that time. I was so antisocial that I was almost insane. I felt so different and so crazy that people just left me alone. I wouldn't have been surprised if they had voted me Most Likely To Kill Everyone At A High School Dance.

GW: Can you now understand how some people become so alienated that they become violent?

COBAIN: Yeah, I can definitely see how a person's mental state could deteriorate to the point where they would do that. I've gotten to the point where I've fantasized about it, but I'm sure I would opt to kill myself first. But still, I've always loved revenge movies about high school dances, stuff like Carrie.

GW: When did you start to think about sexism? Was it an outgrowth of your interest in punk?

COBAIN: No, it was before that. I could never find any good male friends, so I ended up hanging out with the girls a lot, and I just felt that they weren't being treated equally and they weren't treated with respect. I hated the way Aberdeen treated women in general-they were just totally oppressed. The words "bitch" and "cunt" were totally common, you'd hear them all the time. But it took me many years after the fact to realize those were the things that were bothering me. I was just starting to understand what was pissing me off so much, and in the last couple of years of high school, I found punk rock and it all came together. I finally understood that I wasn't retarded, you know?

GW: Did you ever have problems with people thinking you were gay?

COBAIN: Yeah. Even I thought that I was gay. Although I never experimented with it, I thought that might be the solution to my problem. I had a gay friend, and that was the only time that I ever experienced real confrontation from people. Like I said, for so many years they were basically afraid of me, but when I started hanging out with this guy, Myer Loftin, who was known to be gay, they started giving me a lot of shit, trying to beat me up and stuff. Then my mother wouldn't allow me to be friends with him anymore because she's homophobic.

GW: So did you stop?

COBAIN: Yeah. It was real devastating because finally I'd found a male friend who I could actually talk to and be affectionate with, and I was told I couldn't hang out with him anymore. Around that same time, I was putting all the pieces of the puzzle together. He played a big role in that.

GUITAR WORLD: Your lyrics contain some provocative gay references, in particular the line, "Everyone is gay" from "All Apologies." Is that a reflection of that time?

KURT COBAIN: I wouldn't say it was a reflection of that time. I'm just carrying on with my beliefs now. I guess it is [provocative] in a commercial sense, because of how many albums we've sold.

GW: It's very unusual to find bands talking about those kinds of things, particularly in the format that you're using, which is basically male rock.

COBAIN: Yeah, but I think it's getting better, though, now that "alternative music" is finally getting accepted, although that's a pretty sad term, as far as I'm concerned. But at least the consciousness is there, and that's really healthy for the younger generation.

GW: Have you had any problems from the industry or fans because of your gay references?

COBAIN: Never. Pansy Division covered "Teen Spirit" and reworked the words to "Smells Like Queer Spirit," and thanked us in the liner notes. I think it said, "Thank you to Nirvana for taking the most pro-gay stance of any commercially successful rock band." That was a real flattering thing. It's just that it's nothing new to any of my friends, because of the music we've been listening to for the last 15 years.

I suppose things are different now. If you watch MTV, they have these "Free Your Mind" segments in the news hour, where they report on gay issues and stuff like that. Pretty much in subtle ways they remind everyone how sexist the wave of heavy metal was throughout the entire Eighties, because all that stuff is almost completely dead. It's dying fast. I find it really funny to see a lot of those groups like Poison-not even Poison, but Warrant and Skid Row, bands like that-desperately clinging to their old identities, but now trying to have an alternative angle in their music. It gives me a small thrill to know that I've helped in a small way to get rid of those people-or maybe at least to make them think about what they've done in the last 10 years. Nothing has changed, really, except for bands like Soul Asylum who've been around for like 12 years, have been struggling in bars forever, and now have their pretty faces on MTV. Still, they have a better attitude than the metal people. I think it's healthier. I'd much rather have that than the old stuff. [end of quoting interview]

How can anyone read that and say he did not believe in it or was just trying to sell records? He was just doing what he believed in and in doing that it led to his hatred for Axl.

I didn't find a single instance in that Guitar World interview where Kurt attacked GN'R for being homophobic so I don't see how he was holding Axl "accountable."

[Freya]

So, in other words, Kurt stood up for what he believed in and Axl became what he hated?

In a way, but not exactly, I don't feel that Axl felt he was being a "bully" but rather protecting himself.  Kurt, while though a seeming pacifist, used sarcasm and derision, (although he did threaten some people), while Axl had no problem using the threat of physical violence, but in response to a preceived threat (even if it was just in his own mind).  The crucial difference between the two men of course, was Axl was used to getting hit growing up, Kurt wasn't, so of course you can draw a line from there.  

Personally, I think he knew that he would appeal to some people and knew that the mainstream media and the human rights groups would villify him for it, which is probably what he was going for (controversy). What I don't think Axl was counting on was for someone who was also a "rock God" to come out on the other side of the issue and hold him accountable for it.

I've said before that I'm skeptical that Cobain's "principles" were the sole reason that he bagged on Axl.  I really don't think Axl thought the song would appeal to anyone, I think his mindset is pretty self-centered.  But you have to realize how absolutely insane it was at that time, that the song was released.  Just think how many record company people, David Geffen, etc. had to listen to that song before it got released and nobody stopped it simply because they knew the band was making money.  I think couple years ago Axl did try to get the song taken off Lies, but it's still there, so I don't know if that's a record company thing or what.  Axl got total negative publicity as soon as that EP was released, even though he still was popular.  I still think though in time, that he is/will be more respected than maligned.  

[CryGirl]

Is so funny the way people try to fight against other groups just because the one group you love the most doesn`t like this or that group...
I love Guns, I love Pearl Jam, and I like Nirvana in a way, just because I respect people as individuals; all of them had and some still has their own dramas.

And music is to be loved or not to be heard,in case you don`t like it, but mistreat people who work hard to do their own thing is low!
That`s just what I think.