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Author Topic: House OK's Timetable for Troops in Iraq..Bush will Veto  (Read 7358 times)
Bill 213
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« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2007, 07:02:07 PM »



When will the job be done? When will our mission be accomplished? When the Iraqi forces are strong enough to handle their own security the US will leave Iraq.?




The American presence in Iraq is a destabilizing factor in itself. If the objective is to stay until Iraq is stable and secure yet your presence destabilizes Iraq by attracting conflict you will never be able to leave - until you either kill every insurgent in Iraq and every middle-eastern terrorist, or until your military is defeated. Which do you think will happen first and how soon (to the nearest millennium)?

The other option is to pull our troops out.?

Insurgents would topple the Iraq government and the whole region could become unstable. There would be a worse situation than it is now.?

Our choice is to be in a bad situation or a really really bad situation.


Brother I hate to tell you, but that whole region is on pins and needles as we speak and every second our presence is felt there...it's just going to become more volatile.  There is no feasible solution other than pulling out and monitoring the situation and trying to let it work itself out diplomaticly...in the sense of how Vietnam eventually wound up. 
Face it, no matter how many times you try to do this job, it's not possible.  The Iraqi government is weak and mainly because the US force fed those leaders onto the people.
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« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2007, 09:20:00 AM »

The Republicans want to keep the "War on Terror" raging on for as long as possible...I dont see this really happening.

If the "War" ends, or Osama gets caught, people's pockets stop getting lined with cold hard cash up in Washington.
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« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2007, 09:40:19 AM »

This war has become so politicized. The republicans are not putting american soldiers at risk for cash.The war is costing us not making us money.
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« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2007, 12:05:54 PM »

This war has become so politicized. The republicans are not putting american soldiers at risk for cash.The war is costing us not making us money.

The repubs have done nothing but put American soldiers in harms way for cash. While the war is putting us in the hole for the next generation, it still certainly is a cash cow for Cheney's corporate buddies at the same time.
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« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2007, 01:01:52 PM »

The repubs have done nothing but put American soldiers in harms way for cash. While the war is putting us in the hole for the next generation, it still certainly is a cash cow for Cheney's corporate buddies at the same time.

I take issue with this attitude; if youre going to suggest that Republicans are supporting the war for monetary reasons, you have to offer some evidence.
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SLCPUNK
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« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2007, 02:18:05 PM »

The repubs have done nothing but put American soldiers in harms way for cash. While the war is putting us in the hole for the next generation, it still certainly is a cash cow for Cheney's corporate buddies at the same time.

I take issue with this attitude; if youre going to suggest that Republicans are supporting the war for monetary reasons, you have to offer some evidence.

Cheney's Halliburton has made record profits, and their stock has doubled since the invasion. The multi-million dollar "rebuilding" contracts are also more than enough evidence of a profit driven agenda.

That is before we even get to the future oil contracts that will be handed out, something we'll be first in line to get I'm sure.
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guns_n_motley
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« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2007, 02:19:44 PM »

Ya know, im kinda torn on this issue. I would love to see our troops come home.

But, leaving Iraq like this could have really detrimental factors. The country will fall apart, and probably could become much worse than it is now/was before
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« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2007, 02:52:52 PM »

Ya know, im kinda torn on this issue. I would love to see our troops come home.

But, leaving Iraq like this could have really detrimental factors. The country will fall apart, and probably could become much worse than it is now/was before

It already IS falling apart. and it's worse off now than it was before the US invaded.  Staying there isn't going to make it better. 
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« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2007, 03:32:16 PM »

Ya know, im kinda torn on this issue. I would love to see our troops come home.

But, leaving Iraq like this could have really detrimental factors. The country will fall apart, and probably could become much worse than it is now/was before

It already IS falling apart. and it's worse off now than it was before the US invaded.  Staying there isn't going to make it better. 

The troops leaving before Iraq can wipe its own ass certainly wont make a better situation either. We invaded, its our mess to clean up. 
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« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2007, 03:51:59 PM »

Cheney's Halliburton has made record profits, and their stock has doubled since the invasion. The multi-million dollar "rebuilding" contracts are also more than enough evidence of a profit driven agenda.

That is before we even get to the future oil contracts that will be handed out, something we'll be first in line to get I'm sure.

Its one thing to single out Cheney; its another to accuse the party as a whole.  Do you have any evidence suggesting that the majority of Republicans that support this war have a financial interest in it?
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« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2007, 04:58:46 PM »


 

Isn't hard to believe that the only war we ever lost was one that liberals put us in??? oh wait...thats not hard to believe at all is it?? Why dont we just tell the insurgents to go on vacation till Fall 2008......

This is your liar Bush's war, nobody else. Led by hubris, arrogance, and ignorance about the make-up of that region. He created an impossible pickle for us right now. If you want our kids putting on the ref shirt for a civil war then be my guest, sign up and do your part to "protect" us all. Pull these troops out now, and let the chips falls where they may.








he is not MY liar Bush....I dont have blind support for the guy..I just dont blame EVERYTHING that goes wrong in the world on him.....  But you are right..we should not have to "ref" a civil war...I think the job being "done" would mean handing the country back over to  the Iraqis where they can REASONABLY handle the situation...I like the "let the chips fall where they may" approach, because honestly that is what is going to happen eventually...I just dont think it is time just yet to leave there...I also read a good post I forgot who said it though about the how giving a deadline to get troops out would actually force the Iraqi goverment to get their asses in gear..I never really thought of it like that....very good points from all of you...
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« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2007, 05:07:19 PM »

Ya know, im kinda torn on this issue. I would love to see our troops come home.

But, leaving Iraq like this could have really detrimental factors. The country will fall apart, and probably could become much worse than it is now/was before

It already IS falling apart. and it's worse off now than it was before the US invaded.  Staying there isn't going to make it better. 

The troops leaving before Iraq can wipe its own ass certainly wont make a better situation either. We invaded, its our mess to clean up. 

no, Bush, Cheney and the neo-cons invaded.  The rest of us were duped.  this is their war.  now that they are losing power and influence its time to get out of iraq.  let the sunnis and shiites fight each other and the other arab nations lend their support to whoever they want.  its virtually impossible to "win" - staying there only means more US deaths and more US dollars being wasted on a fruitless cause.
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« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2007, 05:39:05 PM »

It already IS falling apart. A friend of mine's husband has been there and is currently there again. All he ever told her is how every time they did something to try to help they just did something to tear it down. Its never gonna be a stable situation with a stable government. We should never have been there period.
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Dr. Blutarsky
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« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2007, 05:44:43 PM »

Ya know, im kinda torn on this issue. I would love to see our troops come home.

But, leaving Iraq like this could have really detrimental factors. The country will fall apart, and probably could become much worse than it is now/was before

It already IS falling apart. and it's worse off now than it was before the US invaded.  Staying there isn't going to make it better. 

The troops leaving before Iraq can wipe its own ass certainly wont make a better situation either. We invaded, its our mess to clean up. 

no, Bush, Cheney and the neo-cons invaded.  The rest of us were duped.  this is their war.  now that they are losing power and influence its time to get out of iraq.  let the sunnis and shiites fight each other and the other arab nations lend their support to whoever they want.  its virtually impossible to "win" - staying there only means more US deaths and more US dollars being wasted on a fruitless cause.

So because the republicans were in power when we went to war you want us to throw our hands up in the air and go home?

Would you have the same opinion if Bill Clinton were president?

People need to not look at this war in republican vs democrat terms.

What is the best decision for America?
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« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2007, 06:47:31 PM »

But dude, it IS about Republican vs. Democrat now.  Haven't you been following the current battle in Congress?  The Democrats want the war to end, the Republicans don't.  It's as simple as that.  The very large majority of American people also want the war to end...however Bush just recently implied he doesn't care what the Democrats or the American people want.  Check the front page of Yahoo or CNN.  The Republicans are doing everything they can to rally behind Bush and try to keep this fuckshit in Iraq afloat.  Even some of them are starting to come around and see that it is impossible, however still not enough to sway the power balance.  The Dems are in power, but they have to have a 2/3's vote to secure anything and with the Republicans being douchebags, that isn't going to happen.  That's all this war has become on our side of the pond now...who has the bigger balls in Congress.
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« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2007, 08:59:12 PM »

The war is being dictated by  politics, rather than strategy. Very sad. It is a bad situation.

The answer is simple. Iraqis need to be doing what our soldiers are doing- providing some level of security for the population. But we have to give them a chance to do it.

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« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2007, 09:19:59 PM »

The war is being dictated by  politics

Explain how.

The answer is simple. Iraqis need to be doing what our soldiers are doing- providing some level of security for the population. But we have to give them a chance to do it.

This reminds of something the president used to say - I dont think he does anymore: As the Iraqis stand up, our troops will stand down.  If this was true, would it be necessary for him to send over 21,000 more troops?  Or have zero Iraqis stood up?
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« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2007, 10:33:07 PM »

Here is some good news from Iraq.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070325/ap_on_re_mi_ea/fighting_back_in_anbar

Sunni sheiks join fight vs. insurgency

By TODD PITMAN, Associated Press Writer Sun Mar 25, 3:39 PM ET

RAMADI, Iraq - Not long ago it would have been unthinkable: a Sunni sheik allying himself publicly with American forces in a xenophobic city at the epicenter of
Iraq's Sunni insurgency.


Today, there is no mistaking whose side Sheik Abdul Sattar al-Rishawi is on. Outside his walled home, a U.S. tank is on permanent guard beside a clutch of towering date palms and a protective dirt berm.

The 36-year-old sheik is leading a growing movement of Sunni tribesmen who have turned against al-Qaida-linked insurgents in Anbar province. The dramatic shift in alliances may have done more in a few months to ease daily street battles and undercut the insurgency here than American forces have achieved in years with arms.

The American commander responsible for Ramadi, Col. John W. Charlton, said the newly friendly sheiks, combined with an aggressive counterinsurgency strategy and the presence of thousands of new Sunni police on the streets, have helped cut attacks in the city by half in recent months.

In November 2005, American commanders held a breakthrough meeting with top Sunni chiefs in Ramadi, hoping to lure them away from the insurgents' fold. The sheiks responded positively, promising cooperation and men for a police force that was then virtually nonexistent.

But in January 2006 a suicide bomber attacked a police recruiting drive, killing 70 people. Insurgents killed at least four sheiks for cooperating with the Americans, and many others fled.

The killings left the effort in limbo, until a turning point; insurgents killed a prominent sheik last year and refused to let family members bury the body for four days, enraging Sunni tribesmen, said U.S. Lt. Col. Miciotto Johnson, who heads the 1st Battalion, 77th Armored Regiment and visits al-Rishawi frequently in western Ramadi.

Al-Rishawi, whose father and three brothers were killed by al-Qaida assassins, said insurgents were "killing innocent people, anyone suspected of opposing them. They brought us nothing but destruction and we finally said, enough is enough."

Al-Rishawi founded the Anbar Salvation Council in September with dozens of Sunni tribes. Many of the new newly friendly leaders are believed to have at least tacitly supported the insurgency in the past, though al-Rishawi said he never did.

"I was always against these terrorists," al-Rishawi said in an interview inside his American-guarded compound, adjusting a pistol holstered around his waist. "They brainwashed people into thinking Americans were against them. They said foreigners wanted to occupy our land and destroy our mosques. They told us, 'We'll wage a jihad. We'll help you defeat them.'"

The difficult part was convincing others it wasn't true, and that "building an alliance with the Americans was the only solution," al-Rishawi said.

His movement, also known as the Anbar Awakening, now counts 41 tribes or sub-tribes from Anbar, though al-Rishawi acknowledges that some groups in the province have yet to join. It's unclear how many that is, or much support the movement really has.

And there is opposition. In November, a top Sunni leader who heads the Association of Muslim Scholars, Sheik Harith al-Dhari, described al-Rishawi's movement as "thieves and bandits." And for at least a year, U.S. forces have also witnessed sporadic firefights between Sunni militias and insurgents in Ramadi, reflecting the growing split among Sunnis. They used to describe such skirmishes as "red on red" fighting ? battles between enemies. Now they call it "red on green."

But violence in some districts of Ramadi previously hit by daily street battles has dwindled to a degree so low that American soldiers can walk on the streets in some areas and hand out soccer balls without provoking a firefight ? apparently a direct result of the sheik's influence.

U.S. Lt. Nathan Strickland, also of the 1-77th, said the sheiks were influenced by the realization that Shiite
Iran's regional influence was rising, and "the presence of (Sunni) foreign fighters here was disrupting the traditional local tribal structure."

Al-Rishawi and other sheiks urged their tribesmen to join the police force, and 4,500 Sunnis heeded the call in Ramadi alone ? a remarkable feat in a city that had almost no police a year ago.

Local Sunnis have deeply resented the overwhelmingly Shiite Iraqi army units the Shiite-dominated government in Baghdad has deployed here. Sunni tribes have begun to realize that if anybody is going to secure the city, it might as well be the sons of Ramadi, Strickland said.

Also pouring through the streets in police trucks fixed with heavy machine-guns are 2,500 Sunni tribesmen who have joined newly created SWAT team-like paramilitary units. Paid by the Interior Ministry with the blessing of U.S. commanders, the so-called Emergency Response Units are clearly loyal to local sheiks. Some wear track suits and face-covering red-checkered headscarves ? looking startlingly like insurgent fighters. Others wear crisp green camouflage uniforms bought by al-Rishawi.

The ERU members were screened and sent either on 45-day police training courses in Jordan or seven-day courses at a military base in Ramadi ? part of an effort to capitalize on the Awakening movement and make use of them as quickly as possible.

"I'd say 20 percent of the credit for the change in Ramadi could be taken by U.S. forces," said Strickland. "The vast majority of the turnaround is due to the sheiks."

Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki made his first trip to Anbar province this month, meeting al-Rishawi and saying he applauded Sunni tribes and clans that had "risen up and countered terrorism."

Still, al-Rishawi complained the Interior Ministry had given police and ERU units "one-tenth" of the resources they needed ? from equipment to guns to food, despite promises to do more. Some of the fighters use automatic weapons they brought from home.

"If I had the tools, I could wipe al-Qaida from Anbar within five months," al-Rishawi said.

Strickland said the government was probably "hesitant to strengthen and supply something that might become a popular Sunni movement."

The message has taken longer to spread to eastern Ramadi, but it's getting through there, too, said Maj. Dave Christensen of the U.S. Army's 1st Battalion, 9th Infantry Regiment.

The base he works from used to be hit daily by mortar attacks, prompting outgoing barrages targeting launch sites that inadvertently damaged buildings, killed cattle, and alienated locals. The sheik responsible for the neighborhood where the attacks originated began cooperating with Americans a few months ago, prompting insurgents to attack and burn down his house.

"He fought back, then called and said, 'Hey, I've been helping you, now I could use your help,'" Christensen said.

U.S. forces moved into the now relatively quiet area, and Christensen's base has seen only a handful of mortar strikes since.
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« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2007, 10:52:38 PM »

This war has become so politicized. The republicans are not putting american soldiers at risk for cash.The war is costing us not making us money.

The repubs have done nothing but put American soldiers in harms way for cash. While the war is putting us in the hole for the next generation, it still certainly is a cash cow for Cheney's corporate buddies at the same time.
Don't worry, only the extreme left-wing 2% of our country actually believes what SLC tries to sell.  As has been repeatedly established, SLC has no support for his baseless allegations.
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« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2007, 10:55:14 PM »


 

Isn't hard to believe that the only war we ever lost was one that liberals put us in??? oh wait...thats not hard to believe at all is it?? Why dont we just tell the insurgents to go on vacation till Fall 2008......

This is your liar Bush's war, nobody else. Led by hubris, arrogance, and ignorance about the make-up of that region. He created an impossible pickle for us right now. If you want our kids putting on the ref shirt for a civil war then be my guest, sign up and do your part to "protect" us all. Pull these troops out now, and let the chips falls where they may.








he is not MY liar Bush....I dont have blind support for the guy..I just dont blame EVERYTHING that goes wrong in the world on him.....? But you are right..we should not have to "ref" a civil war...I think the job being "done" would mean handing the country back over to? the Iraqis where they can REASONABLY handle the situation...I like the "let the chips fall where they may" approach, because honestly that is what is going to happen eventually...I just dont think it is time just yet to leave there...I also read a good post I forgot who said it though about the how giving a deadline to get troops out would actually force the Iraqi goverment to get their asses in gear..I never really thought of it like that....very good points from all of you...
Unless you believe that Bush has waged this war and has knowlingly sacrified Iraqi civilans and american troops so that Cheney and Halliburton can make money, you are blind Bush supporter.  Come on, get with the program.
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