The reason we're waiting....

[Africa]

Not to go completely off topic here, Communist China, but calling Axl supporters "Axlites" and talking about "n00bs" who couldn't name the band members a few months ago isn't childish, right? I'm glad you view yourself as an intelligent debater, perhaps it would be more convincive if you took your own advice and refrained from mocking people with different views from you.

[misterID]

Calling people who support the band "Axlites" and blind followers is also something you might wanna think about not doing in the future.

Wow... just... Wow... I'm really glad you said that. It really says so much.

The Dave thing doesn't bother me, he was dropping this board anyway, like so many others are doing, and will continue. Which is unfortunate because this used to be a great board. I don't mean that as a stab at you, it really is sad seeing what happened since management left its fingerprints on it.

Do you remember when the old line up fans were here? I was the one who was defending my favorite band, jarmo. Now the fans have mutated into what management wants them to be... Being realistic and negative are 2 different things. I love the band, but I call a spade a spade. Call that a hater, fine. The opinions on this board of 'true fans' really don't mean anything anymore.

My point is still valid.

[Mr.Intensity]

The best thing about the new album will be the threads won't degenerate into stuff like this and we'll all be able to talk about the studio versions of the songs along with comment from band members regarding the musical/studio future of this line-up.

[AdZ]

You see, so many of the Axlites like to put a little childish insult at the end of their statements. Those in here being accused of being whiners at least intelligently mock their opposing "debaters" (not a great term for this group, but it'll suffice). I was not referencing you. In time you may learn that not everything said here is about you. However, it is obvious that the majority of threads are started by members with new accounts and less than 100 posts. Obviously, they are not used to the constant disappointment common to this band. And, therefore, do not like to hear that their stay here may be a bumpy trip. They often react poorly and violently, and end up insulting long time members. I remember lurking here throughout 05, and back then that'd be a ticket to a ban.

To be honest, noone cares about who's been a fan of the band the longest, active online the longest or has the most posts.

I've been online since about 2000, yet I don't feel the need to whine.

[misterID]

Not really surprised you quote Communist China, who has been very diplomatic in this thread, but not the others who were spewing their own negativity.

[Warchild]

exactly....been a supporter of G&R since 89...........not online that long though, but quite a while.....this seems irrelevant and it does no good to slam

the new Fans........does it CC?



WC

[Africa]

Calling people who support the band "Axlites" and blind followers is also something you might wanna think about not doing in the future.

Wow... just... Wow... I'm really glad you said that. It really says so much.

The Dave thing doesn't bother me, he was dropping this board anyway, like so many others are doing, and will continue. Which is unfortunate because this used to be a great board. I don't mean that as a stab at you, it really is sad seeing what happened since management left its fingerprints on it.

Do you remember when the old line up fans were here? I was the one who was defending my favorite band, jarmo. Now the fans have mutated into what management wants them to be... Being realistic and negative are 2 different things. I love the band, but I call a spade a spade. Call that a hater, fine. The opinions on this board of 'true fans' really don't mean anything anymore.

My point is still valid.

So you're a "true fan" because you complain then, is that how I understand this post? That's pretty funny. What about those of us who grew up with GN'R when Slash and Duff were still in the band and still manage to not whine about the new band? I have been a fan of this new band since the start and a fan of the old band since the early 90's, but so what? Why this nonsense about being a "true fan"? And your shit arguments about "mutating into what management wants us to be", just because we don't complain, really knocks all your credibility from under your feet. It's ridicilous. Who cares how long you have been a fan? How dare you call yourself a "true fan"? An 8 year old girl who saw Axl on MTV yesterday for the first time is a fan I would respect more than those who have been forcing their negativity down the throats of happy fans for 5 years.

[AdZ]

Not really surprised you quote Communist China, who has been very diplomatic in this thread, but not the others who were spewing their own negativity.

Oh good, I aim to please.

[floppyfish27]

Yeah, old Dave refused to believe that a firemarshal and the city of Portland had a personal agenda and put a conspiracy together against Axl

It's like they say, birds of a feather flock together.

Yes, they do don't they? Your post proves it.

Alright MisterID, ?
First let me say, you've posted 2600+ times, I am sure w/o looking back through your previous posts your attitude was much different back then than it is today. ?You have a right to vent, you have a right to let loose on some things you feel strongly about.. but at the same time, challanging the head of state is ridiculous and shows the mentality of ones personality, typically a person who doesn't even respect their parent(s) or dearest friends and will turn on them faster than they can turn off a light switch...

I've been a long time fan, check out this site daily for information and I am getting turned off by the ignorance of some people here, you included for picking arguments because something is lacking in your life and it's not GNR. ?

at this point, nothing said is best said, especially in your case... vent on the other boards, boards myself along with others choose not to go to for that simple reason. ? Like WC has said, Like jarmo has said.. this is a fan board, let's not turn this into "those" boards..

Again, myself with others I know come to the board for information, we are too old to sit and read this pointless shit people put on here thinking what they say or do may influence what the band with ultimately do...

all you are is a blade of grass in an open field, if some little kid walks up and rips you out, no one will notice and more importantly, no one will care!

[Naupis]

This whole idea of what is and is not a fan is completely out of hand around here. It seems that if you are not in direct lock step with the propaganda pushed by the band and those associated with advancing their agenda it means that you are some how not a fan.

Saying that you aren't a fan because you disagree with the way GNR and it's management have handled matters for the past 5-8 years is like saying that I can't be a Republican anymore because I think the President and those surrounding him and giving him his advice have proven to be incompetent. It is simply not the case.

If we applied the GNR fan rational provided by many around here it would mean I am disloyal to the party and no longer a Republican because I have not taken the President for his word every single time for the past 7 years because "I don't know what he knows and plans change", even though there are a billion instances in which the explanations offered by The Whitehouse for his actions and the course of events have been proven not accurate and misleading.

We all need to take a deep breath around here and realize that the crux of the problem everyone seems to have with the band has nothing to do with the music, but everything to do with administrative BS. Disagreeing with the way they run the ship doesn't mean you aren't a fan of the music. Just as thinking the President has done an awful job of presenting and carrying out the message of conservatism doesn't make me any less a Republican.

All it means is as a member of any party or fan base you can disagree with the method of operation while still being whole heartedly behind the message. I think that even the biggest rubber-stamp "fans" can agree that the band's handlers have done a very poor job of orchestrating the band's return to the public over the past 5 years. When you look at what they were once able to accomplish, and then what they have struggled to accomplish recently, in no way can the situation be looked at as a success.

The schism in the board ?has occurred in the last year though when it was proclaimed that being a fan of the music the band makes it imperative you agree with and don't question the administrative function of presenting the band and its music to the people. Certain people on the board refuse to realize there is a tremendous difference in being a fan of the music, and being a fan of the band's management team and administrative staff. So when it is declared that the management or administrative staff have proven to be somewhat incompetent, it is turned into a "you hate the band, get out of here" call to arms.

I would like some sort of clarification as to how anyone on this board who is a fan of the music is not considered a true "fan" because they think that the business side of things is run poorly. We ultimately are here because of the music, which in turn makes us fans. But just like members of a political party, we have wildly different ideas on how to best present our message to the masses.

So the true question is is a fan considered someone who buys into the music/ideology of a movement, or the function in which it is carried out? Seems to me there are alot of very confused and short sighted people on the board right now. Being a fan of the bands music, and thinking the management of the bands affairs is awfully poor are not mutually exlclusive things. Being a fan of the music but not the way management handles the affairs does not preclude one from being a fan of the band, as they can happen concurrently. Somehow that message has been lost or distorted around here over time.

[Bodhi]

For those of you who continue to bitch and complain...why dont you just stop following the band?  Dont buy the record....If Axl is causing you so much pain, and you feel the band is screwing you over by not putting the record out when YOU want it to be out...there is a simple solution....piss off....why are you here?

[floppyfish27]

This whole idea of what is and is not a fan is completely out of hand around here. It seems that if you are not in direct lock step with the propaganda pushed by the band and those associated with advancing their agenda it means that you are some how not a fan.

Saying that you aren't a fan because you disagree with the way GNR and it's management have handled matters for the past 5-8 years is like saying that I can't be a Republican anymore because I think the President and those surrounding him and giving him his advice have proven to be incompetent. It is simply not the case.

If we applied the GNR fan rational provided by many around here it would mean I am disloyal to the party and no longer a Republican because I have not taken the President for his word every single time for the past 7 years because "I don't know what he knows and plans change", even though there are a billion instances in which the explanations offered by The Whitehouse for his actions and the course of events have been proven not accurate and misleading.

We all need to take a deep breath around here and realize that the crux of the problem everyone seems to have with the band has nothing to do with the music, but everything to do with administrative BS. Disagreeing with the way they run the ship doesn't mean you aren't a fan of the music. Just as thinking the President has done an awful job of presenting and carrying out the message of conservatism doesn't make me any less a Republican.

All it means is as a member of any party or fan base you can disagree with the method of operation while still being whole heartedly behind the message. I think that even the biggest rubber-stamp "fans" can agree that the band's handlers have done a very poor job of orchestrating the band's return to the public over the past 5 years. When you look at what they were once able to accomplish, and then what they have struggled to accomplish recently, in no way can the situation be looked at as a success.

The schism in the board ?has occurred in the last year though when it was proclaimed that being a fan of the music the band makes it imperative you agree with and don't question the administrative function of presenting the band and its music to the people. Certain people on the board refuse to realize there is a tremendous difference in being a fan of the music, and being a fan of the band's management team and administrative staff. So when it is declared that the management or administrative staff have proven to be somewhat incompetent, it is turned into a "you hate the band, get out of here" call to arms.

I would like some sort of clarification as to how anyone on this board who is a fan of the music is not considered a true "fan" because they think that the business side of things is run poorly. We ultimately are here because of the music, which in turn makes us fans. But just like members of a political party, we have wildly different ideas on how to best present our message to the masses.

So the true question is is a fan considered someone who buys into the music/ideology of a movement, or the function in which it is carried out? Seems to me there are alot of very confused and short sighted people on the board right now. Being a fan of the bands music, and thinking the management of the bands affairs is awfully poor are not mutually exlclusive things. Being a fan of the music but not the way management handles the affairs does not preclude one from being a fan of the band, as they can happen concurrently. Somehow that message has been lost or distorted around here over time.

 
mixing politics as part of your acessment is more off topic than anything I've seen in recent threads...  keep in mind, the internet is not only in the USA but all across the world... also keep in mind, there are several if not at least 1/2 of the people who belong to this board which come from somewhere other than the U.S.

Yes, you do have the right to your opinion, of which I will not bash, just leave politics out of it.. not the place for it...

[IndiannaRose]

This whole idea of what is and is not a fan is completely out of hand around here. It seems that if you are not in direct lock step with the propaganda pushed by the band and those associated with advancing their agenda it means that you are some how not a fan.

Saying that you aren't a fan because you disagree with the way GNR and it's management have handled matters for the past 5-8 years is like saying that I can't be a Republican anymore because I think the President and those surrounding him and giving him his advice have proven to be incompetent. It is simply not the case.

If we applied the GNR fan rational provided by many around here it would mean I am disloyal to the party and no longer a Republican because I have not taken the President for his word every single time for the past 7 years because "I don't know what he knows and plans change", even though there are a billion instances in which the explanations offered by The Whitehouse for his actions and the course of events have been proven not accurate and misleading.

We all need to take a deep breath around here and realize that the crux of the problem everyone seems to have with the band has nothing to do with the music, but everything to do with administrative BS. Disagreeing with the way they run the ship doesn't mean you aren't a fan of the music. Just as thinking the President has done an awful job of presenting and carrying out the message of conservatism doesn't make me any less a Republican.

All it means is as a member of any party or fan base you can disagree with the method of operation while still being whole heartedly behind the message. I think that even the biggest rubber-stamp "fans" can agree that the band's handlers have done a very poor job of orchestrating the band's return to the public over the past 5 years. When you look at what they were once able to accomplish, and then what they have struggled to accomplish recently, in no way can the situation be looked at as a success.

The schism in the board ?has occurred in the last year though when it was proclaimed that being a fan of the music the band makes it imperative you agree with and don't question the administrative function of presenting the band and its music to the people. Certain people on the board refuse to realize there is a tremendous difference in being a fan of the music, and being a fan of the band's management team and administrative staff. So when it is declared that the management or administrative staff have proven to be somewhat incompetent, it is turned into a "you hate the band, get out of here" call to arms.

I would like some sort of clarification as to how anyone on this board who is a fan of the music is not considered a true "fan" because they think that the business side of things is run poorly. We ultimately are here because of the music, which in turn makes us fans. But just like members of a political party, we have wildly different ideas on how to best present our message to the masses.

So the true question is is a fan considered someone who buys into the music/ideology of a movement, or the function in which it is carried out? Seems to me there are alot of very confused and short sighted people on the board right now. Being a fan of the bands music, and thinking the management of the bands affairs is awfully poor are not mutually exlclusive things. Being a fan of the music but not the way management handles the affairs does not preclude one from being a fan of the band, as they can happen concurrently. Somehow that message has been lost or distorted around here over time.

 
mixing politics as part of your acessment is more off topic than anything I've seen in recent threads...? keep in mind, the internet is not only in the USA but all across the world... also keep in mind, there are several if not at least 1/2 of the people who belong to this board which come from somewhere other than the U.S.

Yes, you do have the right to your opinion, of which I will not bash, just leave politics out of it.. not the place for it...

He was just using a general analogy, which would explain his point more efficiently. As a matter of fact, it made it very clear. I fuckin' adore this band's music, yet I have not been very happy on how the band has been run (management wise). Although, just because I hold this opinion, it doesn't mean that I'm right in repeating it over and over again, but on the flip side of the coin, this does not give anyone a right to call me a lesser fan when I do let my opinion on this subject be heard, which I really don't do often as I think this point has already been layed out on the line.

[Africa]

For those of you who continue to bitch and complain...why dont you just stop following the band?? Dont buy the record....If Axl is causing you so much pain, and you feel the band is screwing you over by not putting the record out when YOU want it to be out...there is a simple solution....piss off....why are you here?

Because they don't have lives, that is why they are so bitter that Axl doesn't follow their timeframes.
Pretty pathetic if you ask me. How can a person with a life be this bitter at a person they've never met?

[Bartlet]

Why do we all bitch at eachother about havin no life eh? we are all equally as lifeless, just for puttin so much of our time into this - even those who keep whining about all the whining.

Speaking of which, Jarmo may aswell ban all discussion bout the album til it comes out if the whining pisses too many people off (people so lacking in initiative that they think they have to be here havin it forced down them - to whomesoever it may apply - i have seen that complaint in one or two previous posts in this thread).

Some whining is inevitable, and sometimes perfectly reasonable. Whether people should whine or not is a moot point, but some of the whiners make valid points. And even-handed points. And then it is pointed out to them that even-handedness is not tolerated here!

Moreover, I for one take exception to ANYONE who thinks they can tell anyone else what it is to be a fan.

[Krispy Kreme]

This is a specious arguement. There is no relationship between time and building chemistry. I'll? "name another band" for you.? . .

Ever hear of the The Yardbirds (#89 on Rolling Stones greatest artists of all time)? A guy named Jimmy Page joined the Yardbirds in 1966 to play bass guitar. After everyone else quit in the summer of 1968. . . he hired Robert Plant , John Bohnam, and John Paul Jones to complete The Yardbirds tour of Scandinavia as contractually obligated. By the end of the year, they changed their name to . . . . let me clear my throat . . . Led Zeppelin. I think their first album came out in January 1969 - six months after he replaced everyone.

Yeah, but Axl doesn't wanna do this by ripping off a bunch of old blues musicians.

You are a gem. What are you talking about? So now you diss Zeppelin?

My own thoughts (and I have not read all 8 pages ?so far) are ?the following;

1. the ?whole ?"squelch the negativity" thing is part of the growing censorship/get on board ?or fuck off trend ?that ?is ever more ominous. If ?this board ever loses ?its ?diversity and the right to an opinion, if ?it ?becomes monotonic, it will be BORING. Everyone should thank the dissenters ?for ?having the guts ?to say something different, if for no ?other ?reason than to keep things semi-interesting. Can you imagine how boring it would be ?if every single ?fucking post was about how the person idolized Axl and the band. If that were to happen, this board would ?close ?down ?because ?everyone with a brain would migrate somewhere else.
2. the current ?state of affairs ?is much different than 2001/2002 and I am optimistic that the album will (finally) come out.
3. it is hard ?to be patient after waiting so long, and so people are impatient. It is natural. It ?is a ?sign of loyalty (for the most ?part), not disloyalty. People are anxious ?to hear new music.

[Warchild]

For those of you who continue to bitch and complain...why dont you just stop following the band?? Dont buy the record....If Axl is causing you so much pain, and you feel the band is screwing you over by not putting the record out when YOU want it to be out...there is a simple solution....piss off....why are you here?

Because they don't have lives, that is why they are so bitter that Axl doesn't follow their timeframes.
Pretty pathetic if you ask me. How can a person with a life be this bitter at a person they've never met?

Exactly..being a "fan" does NOT mean that you are privy to each and every detail in a person's life, and you are not "entitled" to anything other than what they decide to release to the public.......why is this so fucking hard to understand???

and yeah, situations CHANGE, plans CHANGE.....Fuck-ups HAPPEN........but it happens to EVERYBODY..........

So Mr. & ms negativity, know-it-alls or (presume it alls)......hater and whiners, if this is fucking up your life so badly I hear Britney Spears needs a new fan club......

GO...........maybe she will give you a lock of her hair


you won't be missed!
A forum is for new fans, old fans and ?don't dis the new guys......hell you were new once!!! some of these kids are cool as shit!


G&R.....believe it!


W.

[Krispy Kreme]

This whole idea of what is and is not a fan is completely out of hand around here. It seems that if you are not in direct lock step with the propaganda pushed by the band and those associated with advancing their agenda it means that you are some how not a fan.

Saying that you aren't a fan because you disagree with the way GNR and it's management have handled matters for the past 5-8 years is like saying that I can't be a Republican anymore because I think the President and those surrounding him and giving him his advice have proven to be incompetent. It is simply not the case.

If we applied the GNR fan rational provided by many around here it would mean I am disloyal to the party and no longer a Republican because I have not taken the President for his word every single time for the past 7 years because "I don't know what he knows and plans change", even though there are a billion instances in which the explanations offered by The Whitehouse for his actions and the course of events have been proven not accurate and misleading.

We all need to take a deep breath around here and realize that the crux of the problem everyone seems to have with the band has nothing to do with the music, but everything to do with administrative BS. Disagreeing with the way they run the ship doesn't mean you aren't a fan of the music. Just as thinking the President has done an awful job of presenting and carrying out the message of conservatism doesn't make me any less a Republican.

All it means is as a member of any party or fan base you can disagree with the method of operation while still being whole heartedly behind the message. I think that even the biggest rubber-stamp "fans" can agree that the band's handlers have done a very poor job of orchestrating the band's return to the public over the past 5 years. When you look at what they were once able to accomplish, and then what they have struggled to accomplish recently, in no way can the situation be looked at as a success.

The schism in the board ?has occurred in the last year though when it was proclaimed that being a fan of the music the band makes it imperative you agree with and don't question the administrative function of presenting the band and its music to the people. Certain people on the board refuse to realize there is a tremendous difference in being a fan of the music, and being a fan of the band's management team and administrative staff. So when it is declared that the management or administrative staff have proven to be somewhat incompetent, it is turned into a "you hate the band, get out of here" call to arms.

I would like some sort of clarification as to how anyone on this board who is a fan of the music is not considered a true "fan" because they think that the business side of things is run poorly. We ultimately are here because of the music, which in turn makes us fans. But just like members of a political party, we have wildly different ideas on how to best present our message to the masses.

So the true question is is a fan considered someone who buys into the music/ideology of a movement, or the function in which it is carried out? Seems to me there are alot of very confused and short sighted people on the board right now. Being a fan of the bands music, and thinking the management of the bands affairs is awfully poor are not mutually exlclusive things. Being a fan of the music but not the way management handles the affairs does not preclude one from being a fan of the band, as they can happen concurrently. Somehow that message has been lost or distorted around here over time.

This is  actually a very intelligent post. Can't argue  with someone who knows what the word "crux" means and uses it correctly. Good job--you are right on point.

[John Galt]

This whole idea of what is and is not a fan is completely out of hand around here. It seems that if you are not in direct lock step with the propaganda pushed by the band and those associated with advancing their agenda it means that you are some how not a fan.

Saying that you aren't a fan because you disagree with the way GNR and it's management have handled matters for the past 5-8 years is like saying that I can't be a Republican anymore because I think the President and those surrounding him and giving him his advice have proven to be incompetent. It is simply not the case.

If we applied the GNR fan rational provided by many around here it would mean I am disloyal to the party and no longer a Republican because I have not taken the President for his word every single time for the past 7 years because "I don't know what he knows and plans change", even though there are a billion instances in which the explanations offered by The Whitehouse for his actions and the course of events have been proven not accurate and misleading.

We all need to take a deep breath around here and realize that the crux of the problem everyone seems to have with the band has nothing to do with the music, but everything to do with administrative BS. Disagreeing with the way they run the ship doesn't mean you aren't a fan of the music. Just as thinking the President has done an awful job of presenting and carrying out the message of conservatism doesn't make me any less a Republican.

All it means is as a member of any party or fan base you can disagree with the method of operation while still being whole heartedly behind the message. I think that even the biggest rubber-stamp "fans" can agree that the band's handlers have done a very poor job of orchestrating the band's return to the public over the past 5 years. When you look at what they were once able to accomplish, and then what they have struggled to accomplish recently, in no way can the situation be looked at as a success.

The schism in the board ?has occurred in the last year though when it was proclaimed that being a fan of the music the band makes it imperative you agree with and don't question the administrative function of presenting the band and its music to the people. Certain people on the board refuse to realize there is a tremendous difference in being a fan of the music, and being a fan of the band's management team and administrative staff. So when it is declared that the management or administrative staff have proven to be somewhat incompetent, it is turned into a "you hate the band, get out of here" call to arms.

I would like some sort of clarification as to how anyone on this board who is a fan of the music is not considered a true "fan" because they think that the business side of things is run poorly. We ultimately are here because of the music, which in turn makes us fans. But just like members of a political party, we have wildly different ideas on how to best present our message to the masses.

So the true question is is a fan considered someone who buys into the music/ideology of a movement, or the function in which it is carried out? Seems to me there are alot of very confused and short sighted people on the board right now. Being a fan of the bands music, and thinking the management of the bands affairs is awfully poor are not mutually exlclusive things. Being a fan of the music but not the way management handles the affairs does not preclude one from being a fan of the band, as they can happen concurrently. Somehow that message has been lost or distorted around here over time.

Wow - an insightful intelligent post for once.  And the politics analogy works pretty well (despite not being from the US I could still work it out!).. and I totally agree. I am a fan of the music but the management of GnR leaves a lot to be desired...

[jarmo]

Calling people who support the band "Axlites" and blind followers is also something you might wanna think about not doing in the future.

Wow... just... Wow... I'm really glad you said that. It really says so much.

Yes it does, doesn't it?

It pretty much means "support the band and you're welcome here".

The Dave thing doesn't bother me, he was dropping this board anyway, like so many others are doing, and will continue. Which is unfortunate because this used to be a great board. I don't mean that as a stab at you, it really is sad seeing what happened since management left its fingerprints on it.

People change. Somebody who supported the band a few years ago might do the opposite today.

Do you remember when the old line up fans were here? I was the one who was defending my favorite band, jarmo.

I remember.

But I can see similarities of what's going on now.

We have fans who remain positive and support the band, then we have these so called realist fans who point out that everything is wrong.

Being realistic and negative are 2 different things. I love the band, but I call a spade a spade. Call that a hater, fine. The opinions on this board of 'true fans' really don't mean anything anymore.

My point is still valid.

That's the problem, you label yourself a "true fan" because you have a different opinion from somebody who you call an "Axlite".

You seem to hate many things about the band these days. Yet you seem to take it personally when I question your motives.

You might be a fan like the rest of us, but you also have a lot of similarities with certain people who aren't fans and who only post here to cause shit.



/jarmo