The reason we're waiting....

[muffinass]

 ?glad to finally see some proper discussion ?

 ?i'll agree with what's been said here on both fronts...to some extent.
 ?the bottom line is that this year as well as 2006 have been watersheds in the fusion of GNR as a proper band...
- the tour went much better than 2002 (not sure on ticket sales, but as a band-effort...A++)
- songs leaks, GNR getting more coverage for music as well as concerts
- a measly attempt at Fan-based and public PR...that i hope will actually spring back to life once CD comes out
- BBF has (thank God for him) provided to the "select" media a fairly cohesive and unified image of the band...
- solid performances, solid new songs, etc...

 ?HOWEVER...what i think people need to realize with open eyes and objective reasoning, is that to the rest of the world, GNR still needs to prove themselves...

- there's been no proper media discussion of the other members of the band...none...BBF talking to various online sites and creating internet dialogue doesn't really go that far

- the communication that Axl spoke of is once again absent...lol...updates on what the crew thought of some indie band is pointless...i believe we were told that we were going to be updated on the status of the album/single/promotion...saying two lines: recording's done. mixing now, is...well...is it really enough? are we closer as fans to the group than we were at the beginning of the 2006 tour? BBF's discussion of GNR has been enigmatic at best. the more you build a raport with the general public, the better. you're complaining that the media has a bad take on Axl and GNR? too bad...live with it...the world's opinion in general is divided, and enough with making Axl seem like cannon fodder for the media...he's not some martyr for rock...

- i for one was put off by the attitude of the GNR camp to all of the people that had issues w/ either the late start, etc...Tommy telling us to either get on board or fuck off? wow...Beta's insults on here were the icing on the cake...and Del James with his blog-cum-gossip column attack on some fans was beyond puerile...hard to think these people are well in their adulthood...and NO, it's not rock n' roll...it's called MANNERS and professionalism...BBF should give them a little crash course

 ?Bottom line is this...think OUTSIDE of the forum world of HTGTH or other fan forums...think of what the general impression of the band is...can you blame them?

 ?People need to be A LOT more open minded to the situation of GNR in the public sphere...

 ?I'm as eager for the album as everyone is, but the reality of the situation is that too much doubt has accumulated over the past couple of years, and especially months...don't categorize the fans that voice differring opinions as non-fans or start some crusade on behalf of Axl & GNR on forums...
 ?The fact of the matter is that whoever posts on this (and other) forums POST because they're still fans of the band...they'll be the first to buy the album (and try to be realistic about it...they will).

 ?Now let's start hassling Mysteron to poke the GNR camp and ask for some updates again...official tourdates? single coming up? yes/no?

[flicknn]

awesome post man , nice read...

[jarmo]

the communication that Axl spoke of is once again absent...lol...updates on what the crew thought of some indie band is pointless...i believe we were told that we were going to be updated on the status of the album/single/promotion...saying two lines: recording's done. mixing now, is...well...is it really enough?

It's enough for now. Until there's other news to report.





/jarmo

[flicknn]

the communication that Axl spoke of is once again absent...lol...updates on what the crew thought of some indie band is pointless...i believe we were told that we were going to be updated on the status of the album/single/promotion...saying two lines: recording's done. mixing now, is...well...is it really enough?

It's enough for now. Until there's other news to report.





/jarmo

so we can assumne with logic that the album is still being mixed ,


newsflash , it doesnt take a month or even 3 weeks to mx a album

[Jim Bob]

  Now let's start hassling Mysteron to poke the GNR camp and ask for some updates again...official tourdates? single coming up? yes/no?

I'm sorry but thats just a stupid attitude.   They'll give us an update when the update is READY.   

[jarmo]

so we can assumne with logic that the album is still being mixed ,

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Does it matter?

It's one step in the album making process.

If they just post a "the mixing is done" update, certain so called fans won't be happy with that. So why bother? Just wait until they get to the "announce release date" step instead.

newsflash , it doesnt take a month or even 3 weeks to mx a album

I'm glad you know the process of mixing this particular album. 






/jarmo

[flicknn]

so we can assumne with logic that the album is still being mixed ,

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Does it matter?

It's one step in the album making process.

If they just post a "the mixing is done" update, certain so called fans won't be happy with that. So why bother? Just wait until they get to the "announce release date" step instead.

newsflash , it doesnt take a month or even 3 weeks to mx a album

I'm glad you know the process of mixing this particular album. 






/jarmo

mixing of all albums in 2007 fall under the same concept ...this isn't reel to reel , and I can offer you some personal resume background on myself to prove that .

[misterID]

And please explain to me how things have changed? They're still in the studio, they're still not releasing anything, nor music or specific info. The recording process moving forward isn't new, just an addition to the old.

There was a tentative release date issued by Axl himself, Axl saying they were gonna finish the album, a successful tour, an update saying the recording is done, it's being mixed.


Did you see any of those in 2001?


Just by sticking to the facts, you can see that it's not the same as in 2001.




/jarmo

That depends on your definition. The words and claims are different, and I'll agree the state of the project is different as to being more complete, but they're still just words. There are no hard evidence suggesting CD is imminent. When I see a tracklist, cover art, single or Universal statement I'll jump on the train, but at this point we're still pretty much in the same mode of waiting as before.

Just words?

The recording is fucking finished and you keep repeating "it's the same"?

That's the problem with you. You won't believe what you're told. Why would you believe a track listing? It's just words you know...






/jarmo

Its pretty hard to believe what you're told with this band. I'm still waiting on that release date Axl said he was going to give in 2004

Don't get me started on finishing touches.

[jarmo]

Its pretty hard to believe what you're told with this band. I'm still waiting on that release date Axl said he was going to give in 2004

Don't get me started on finishing touches.

You really are unbelievable.....

I'm not gonna mention why this is different once AGAIN.

It's fucking pointless to try to explain it to some of you because you just refuse to think.

I've posted examples on why things are different now and yet you guys keep posting "it's the same, it's the same, it's the same, it's the same, I'm not listening to you because it's the same, it's the same, it's the same".

mixing of all albums in 2007 fall under the same concept ...this isn't reel to reel , and I can offer you some personal resume background on myself to prove that .

Enlighten us then. Tell us how long it took to mix Chinese Democracy.

The truth is, you have no idea. You base it on what others do.

We don't even know if all the tracks were mixed in one batch or if they were mixed at various times over the last few weeks.

Yet you claim to know all these things about how long it took.....




/jarmo

[flicknn]

I didn't say how long cd takes I am telling you it doesnt take a month or even 3 weeks in general dude ,


I qoute myself here for you to understand ,"mixing of all albums in 2007 fall under the same concept ...this isn't reel to reel , and I can offer you some personal resume background on myself to prove that ."

[muffinass]

? Now let's start hassling Mysteron to poke the GNR camp and ask for some updates again...official tourdates? single coming up? yes/no?

I'm sorry but thats just a stupid attitude.? ?They'll give us an update when the update is READY.? ?

  i'll add emoticons next time to underscore the sarcasm

[estebanf]

One of the best posts I've ever read in a GNR forum. Brilliant, and I agree 100%

I specially agree with what you say about Robin. Axl Rose did something impossible: he succeded on rebuilding completely a mythical band like Guns without losing that myth and without losing the ''big league band'' status. And even more: he found , if there was one in the world, the right replacement for a heavyweight guiitarist like Slash. Robin not only replaced Slash properly, he also gave some things to the band that I've never seen in Slash. He's skillful, but he is incredibly charismatic, cool and he has tons of attitude onstage. You know... his face doesn't lie... he's happy of being a GNR member, he enjoys playing live and that feelings are transmited to the fans/audiences.

Musically, Axl found right replacements for everyone. And more, because if we exclude nostalgic arguments/excuses, this band sounds better than the old lineups, and we can smell in the air (considering the leaked songs and how the band sounds in the live shows) that the musical direction that this current lineup is taking is much more complex, open minded and risky.

I do not have an album to strengthen my thoughts. But I just know it. That's why I can wait all that is necesary for the album. I dont consider myself in the conditions of ''demanding'' an album. I prefer to wait, and in the meantime, I have lots of bootlegs to watch and hear, because the world is full of fast-cheap-crap music and bands that release one shity album after another. GNR gave me some scraps of music in 2006 and Im still amazed and shocked. 4 leaked-unfinished tracks in 128 kbps quality and I cant listen to any other music. What is yet to come will be better, so... why ''demanding''? Why not being a little grateful?

Axl Rose is the one that made it possible. He wrote all the songs we fell in love with. Let him and his band, Guns N' Roses, decide when the album needs to be released. I dont think this can be hard...

[misterID]

Its pretty hard to believe what you're told with this band. I'm still waiting on that release date Axl said he was going to give in 2004

Don't get me started on finishing touches.

You really are unbelievable.....

I'm not gonna mention why this is different once AGAIN.

It's fucking pointless to try to explain it to some of you because you just refuse to think.

I've posted examples on why things are different now and yet you guys keep posting "it's the same, it's the same, it's the same, it's the same, I'm not listening to you because it's the same, it's the same, it's the same".

mixing of all albums in 2007 fall under the same concept ...this isn't reel to reel , and I can offer you some personal resume background on myself to prove that .

Enlighten us then. Tell us how long it took to mix Chinese Democracy.

The truth is, you have no idea. You base it on what others do.

We don't even know if all the tracks were mixed in one batch or if they were mixed at various times over the last few weeks.

Yet you claim to know all these things about how long it took.....




/jarmo

You're pretty unbelievable yourself. All you have ever done is make excuses or defend this band, never admitting any wrong they do, and tell people "true fans" don't give any criticism towards the band, which is the biggest mindless follower dribble I've ever heard. According to this line of thinking GNR does NO wrong. Ever. No matter what they do you turn it around on the fans and make it their fault, or they're wrong some how, not the band.

And for the record, since you clearly don't understand, why people say its the same is because of a track record, the history of this band. This point has been made several times but YOU and some others refuse to accept it.

If Axl shit on your floor you'd find a way to defend him for it. Man, some of you really make it embarrassing to tell people your a fan of GNR.

[Edward Rose]

You act like this is an ongoing process, it's not. Axl had his band in 2001, the very same band that did most of the recording for this record. So what gives? Why an additional 6 years? It's got little to do with members, but it's got everything to do with him not being satisfied with the product. If it is like you say a member problem he would have replaced parts of the band by now, that hasn't happened. The only changes that has been made have been by the member itself.

Until Axl can get rid of his demons and insecurities we won't see CD. It took fucking long when he had the original band too, it's not about that.

I think EVERYONE is wrong... and this is just my oppinion.

Don't ANY of you think it's a little odd to go from being dirty rock n' roll drug addicts with an album (AFD) that had a Robot Rape/Skull Cross on the cover, to an album with Freemason art on the cover?... with the kind of ode lyrics that UYI had?... and quoting movies? Don't ANY of you think it's a little odd that Izzy didn't even KNOW that "My World" was on the abum until he practically saw it on the shelf of a record store when we all did?

No one in the media EVER asked the right questions and neither do any of you. And God forbid if someone DOES bring this stuff up, they'll get flamed and called a conspiracy theorist. I found out for myself where the UYI art and some of the images in the "Don't Cry" video came from by reading BOOKS.... books that were eventually made into a movie called "The Davinci Code." I'd say that puts him about 15 years ahead of his time.

I think Chinese Democracy will be as complex and awesome as UYI ended up being, with just a little bit of the perfectionist thing thrown in. I think Axl is working on the "Secret Weapon" from that 1994 interview, and I think THIS time around, it'll be many times as epic as UYI and WELL worth the wait.

[GNRreunioneventually]

i never really thought of it that way, i mean it makes sence. Great post dude nice thinking

[Bodhi]

This is something that I've been thinking about now for the past few days.? I know I could have posted this in the "LIVE chemistry" topic but I really wanted to talk about this in broader terms.? And more or less addressing why we've been waiting so long for this new album....



The original line-up of GNR had incredible chemistry.? And matching that chemistry is an exteremly difficult task.? This was a group of five guys who all started out struggling but all lucked together by having the same vision.? Think about how hard it is when bands change one member, let alone four (Matt, Izzy, Duff, and Slash).? Metallica took almost two years to find a replacement for Newsted.? Red Hot Chili Peppers thought they had a great replacement with Dave Navarro but the album was mediocre and they had to re-recruit Frusciante.? Bands take years finding good replacements to match the band's chemistry.? Pearl Jam went through numerous drummers, waiting for Soundgarden to break-up so they could get Matt Cameron.? REM still doesn't have a permanent drummer after almost 10 years.?

Now imagine being in Axl's shoes and having to start over from scratch.

First of all, GNR isn't some indie rock outfit that doesn't have too many expectations.? When Matt Sharp left Weezer did anyone worry too much about who would be replacing him?? No...but GNR is a rock n roll icon.? Slash is a rock legend.? You can't just go and get anyone off the street to fill his shoes.? And the hardest part, just because you find someone as talented as Slash doesn't mean that guitarist is the right fit either.? The guitarist has to fit in with Axl's voice and vision.? Finding the right match may take years.? I don't think anyone will argue that Buckethead isn't a great guitarist.? But was his style a right fit for GNR?? Who knows?? But what I can say is that when I saw GNR in LA in Dec. Finck was outstanding.? Watching him and Axl on stage together seemed liked the perfect match.? And I know for a fact that isn't something that happened overnight.

But Robin is only one piece of the puzzle!? Now Axl has to find a bassist that not only fits with his voice, he has to find a bassist that fits with Robin's style.? Then he has to find a rhythm guitarist that fits with Robin, Axl and the bassist and then he as to repeat this again with a drummer.? You can imagine why this process is taking so long.

Remember, he's not recruiting members for the Axl Rose Band.? He's hiring people to be in GNR.? There is a standard that he needs to live up to.? If he replaced the members with just about anybody, he would be doing a disservice to the the band's legacy as well as most importantly...the fans.? ?

If you believe that Axl is taking too long of a time to rebuild the band...then think about this...? Name one other band in the history of rock n roll that has replaced all but one original member and has remained as important, popular, and as relevant as ever.? The new band headlined major festivals last year and thousands of fans came out in droves to see them.? People didn't go out to see Axl and Slash, they went out to see GNR.? And I don't know one person that came away from a show (fan or journalist) who didn't love the new line-up.? I can't tell you how many times I read a review where the author started the article by saying..."I was skeptical about the new band, there's no way they could be as good as the original gunners..." and every single one of them ended the article extremely impressed!? I remember some of the reviews of the Buckethead years and they were mild at best.? But this time around, everyone is praising the new band.

Think of all the thousands of bands that fail every year because they don't have chemistry.? I can tell you right now, that Axl knows this more than anyone.? When new bands start up they go through many members finding the right fit.? And even when they settle on a line-up, there's no guarantee they will succeed.? But if this new band fails, there's not a lot of hurt feelings besides the band members.? If the new GNR fails, imagine how many disappointed fans there will be.? Axl has a big task to undertake.? And he's trying to do it right...because in GNR, there's no room to fail.

I more than anyone want the new album to come out.? And I can't tell you how frustrated I am.? But at the same time, instead of throwing rocks, I'd rather try to understand why this process is taking so long than just getting angry.?

you totally get it...one of the best posts I have ever read...The expectations for the record are unbelievable...Lets review what is expected of Axl....He needs to follow up albums that made GNR the biggest band on the planet...AND..he has to do do it without the original line-up..AND he's had to find just the right players..AND on top of finding the right players for the band there is the whole writing the songs thing, AND hes had to deal with certain players coming and going..AND hes had to deal with an unbelievable amount of scrutiny from fans and the press..AND he has to deal with  people who are still talking about a reunion of the original line-up..AND he has to deal with a market for rock music that is much smaller than it was in the 90's...AND he also has to deal with people referring to the new band as "replacement players", "Hired Guns" or "whatever cronies Axl has working with him this minute" despite the fact that most of these guys have been in the band for several years..AND he has had to deal with getting on stage and winning fans over every night they go out there..Axl has plenty of money..so why does he do this?  He is just trying to keep the integrity of the GNR name and make the best record that he thinks he can make..and for this he gets shit on all the time by his OWN FANS no less.....This is only a handful of the things Axl has had to deal with over the past 15 years...and the thing I dont understand is  right now, here in 2007 we are closer to seeing this thing released than we ever have been...yet we still have people complaining...if you have been around for the past 15 years what is another few months??  You guys are sitting here complaining about how long it is taking to mix the album or print the cd booklets...

[Edward Rose]

you totally get it...one of the best posts I have ever read...The expectations for the record are unbelievable...Lets review what is expected of Axl....He needs to follow up albums that made GNR the biggest band on the planet...AND..he has to do do it without the original line-up..AND he's had to find just the right players..AND on top of finding the right players for the band there is the whole writing the songs thing, AND hes had to deal with certain players coming and going..AND hes had to deal with an unbelievable amount of scrutiny from fans and the press..AND he has to deal with  people who are still talking about a reunion of the original line-up..AND he has to deal with a market for rock music that is much smaller than it was in the 90's...AND he also has to deal with people referring to the new band as "replacement players", "Hired Guns" or "whatever cronies Axl has working with him this minute" despite the fact that most of these guys have been in the band for several years..AND he has had to deal with getting on stage and winning fans over every night they go out there..Axl has plenty of money..so why does he do this?  He is just trying to keep the integrity of the GNR name and make the best record that he thinks he can make..and for this he gets shit on all the time by his OWN FANS no less.....This is only a handful of the things Axl has had to deal with over the past 15 years...and the thing I dont understand is  right now, here in 2007 we are closer to seeing this thing released than we ever have been...yet we still have people complaining...if you have been around for the past 15 years what is another few months??  You guys are sitting here complaining about how long it is taking to mix the album or print the cd booklets...

I agree with everything YOU said too... plus my crazy theory about his "Secret Weapon" and the album being many times as epic as UYI... and well worth the wait 

It's also really easy to sit around and let your MONEY make money. So mad props for him doin' time in the studio, gettin' out there on stage so many nights last year and so many more to come THIS year 

[Danny]

Look.? I think alot of the frustration comes from this.? If it's taking GNR this long to put out this album, how long will it be for the next one?? And the next one after that?? I know that's what upsets me the most about all of this waiting.? Axl is a perfectionist.? This I know.? And this project is his pride and joy.? He does'nt want to put out something that is sub-par in HIS mind and he wants to make sure he's happy with it.? What upsets me the most is that this perfectionism may lead to even further perfectionism in the future and we will be stuck with a very small overall GNR catalog when it's all said and done.? Axl's not getting any younger and he probably only has 10, 15 years tops in him left to create music.? It took that long alone to release this...if not longer (and we don't know that yet).? My biggest dissapointment is the lack of art from my favorite artist that I will be able to enjoy for the rest of my life.

[25]

He does'nt want to put out something that is sub-par in HIS mind and he wants to make sure he's happy with it.  What upsets me the most is that this perfectionism may lead to even further perfectionism in the future and we will be stuck with a very small overall GNR catalog when it's all said and done.  Axl's not getting any younger and he probably only has 10, 15 years tops in him left to create music.  It took that long alone to release this...if not longer (and we don't know that yet).  My biggest dissapointment is the lack of art from my favorite artist that I will be able to enjoy for the rest of my life.

How sad for you, that you don't get what you want. On the other hand, GNR aren't spending your life working on their music, they're spending their time. It would probably be more fulfilling for them if they were happy with the record than if you're happy with it, so it seems fair that they get to decide when it's "done." There's no point in being prolific if only half of your work ends up being any good.

[Danny]

Quote from: Danny on Today at 12:10:03 AM
He does'nt want to put out something that is sub-par in HIS mind and he wants to make sure he's happy with it.  What upsets me the most is that this perfectionism may lead to even further perfectionism in the future and we will be stuck with a very small overall GNR catalog when it's all said and done.  Axl's not getting any younger and he probably only has 10, 15 years tops in him left to create music.  It took that long alone to release this...if not longer (and we don't know that yet).  My biggest dissapointment is the lack of art from my favorite artist that I will be able to enjoy for the rest of my life.


How sad for you, that you don't get what you want. On the other hand, GNR aren't spending your life working on their music, they're spending their time. It would probably be more fulfilling for them if they were happy with the record than if you're happy with it, so it seems fair that they get to decide when it's "done." There's no point in being prolific if only half of your work ends up being any good.

Oh come on.  I'm not saying I don't understand the perfectionism.  I'm just telling you how I feel personally.  And yeah, it is sad.  To me.  And only to me and I realize that.  I don't expect anyone to feel bad for me...GNR fan, non GNR fan, or GNR band member.  And I don't expect/want them to change what they do just for me...a fan.  However, I actually WOULD be happier if we got more quantity rather than what one guy considers quality.  But again...that's just me.  I look back to many, many years ago when I was desperate to hear anything new from Axl.  After TSI was out.  When Sympathy came out, I was thrilled.  That meant just one more song from my favorite artist.  Axl on Gilby's album.  Again...more for me to listen to and enjoy.  I'd like to say that the list goes on and on and on, but I can't.  What else have we got?  Oh My God.  It's Alright (which was new to me when I heard it on Live Era).  And a handful of demos.  And that's it.  I just am a little upset at the fact that I've been basically a music fan and a fan of this band for 2/3rds of my life and all I've got to enjoy, disect, break down, analyse are less than a hundred songs.  Unfortunately...I don't see that list getting much bigger due to this wait.  I'm just a bit saddened by this and I wanted to vent a bit.  Ok?