an overlooked fact... that makes you wonder

[Danny]

if so, he'd get bigger in my eyes...

Gross.

[Lucky]

you pervert. I was talking about respect!

[estrangedpaul]

No, you mean released. Not finished.

Since we really don't know what state the material has been in.

nope... not the release part. I think there's enough of those threads:)
I was just (over)analyzing the 06 statement.

and I guess the songs have been finished over the years.
some might have gotten scraped, some might have been re-recorded with the newest lineup(s).

but even if they got re-recorded, I'm a little taken back that not one was (re)finished back then.

After all, before he lends his talents to others' projects, Rose has one of his own to finish, and he says it's getting there. "We're working on thirty-two songs, and twenty-six are nearly done," he says. Of those, thirteen are slated for the final album. Among Rose's favorites are "Better," "There Was a Time" and "The Blues."

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=1529

Ok I'll say it again. You're assuming that Axl had spent all that time recording the album. More likely he was recording demos. It's possible they completed 50 songs in this time and maybe 4 or 5 versions of each. But they would have being demos, hence why Axl said no songs were completed yet.

However, the band may have begun recording final versions of all those songs a short time before that interview, hence why he said none were finished yet.

[redx]

Almost finished can mean anything.

It needed background vocals, needed to be mixed, a guitar solo etc etc.



Also, if there's something stopping the release of the album,, you might wanna deal with that before finishing the album....

For much of the time, various legal issues have arisen, demanding that the best way to deal with these things publicly, quite frankly, was to keep our mouths shut in an attempt to ensure the best outcome-- especially one that wouldn?t jeopardize the band or the album.

/jarmo

Why is it VR, Slash's Snakepit, Izzy's album donot suffer from huge delays because of legal issues.
Why should Gn'R have so many legal issues standing in their way?

I can understand Madagascar having to go through some clearence with regards to the quote's taken from various sources.

[rubinho.ma]

Almost finished can mean anything.

It needed background vocals, needed to be mixed, a guitar solo etc etc.



Also, if there's something stopping the release of the album,, you might wanna deal with that before finishing the album....

For much of the time, various legal issues have arisen, demanding that the best way to deal with these things publicly, quite frankly, was to keep our mouths shut in an attempt to ensure the best outcome-- especially one that wouldn?t jeopardize the band or the album.

/jarmo

Why is it VR, Slash's Snakepit, Izzy's album donot suffer from huge delays because of legal issues.
Why should Gn'R have so many legal issues standing in their way?

I can understand Madagascar having to go through some clearence with regards to the quote's taken from various sources.

I believe all of this crap is related with the 'GUNS N' ROSES' name, not forgetting other members' rights over the songs that were to be played on new GNR tours.

[redx]

Almost finished can mean anything.

It needed background vocals, needed to be mixed, a guitar solo etc etc.



Also, if there's something stopping the release of the album,, you might wanna deal with that before finishing the album....

For much of the time, various legal issues have arisen, demanding that the best way to deal with these things publicly, quite frankly, was to keep our mouths shut in an attempt to ensure the best outcome-- especially one that wouldn?t jeopardize the band or the album.

/jarmo

Why is it VR, Slash's Snakepit, Izzy's album donot suffer from huge delays because of legal issues.
Why should Gn'R have so many legal issues standing in their way?

I can understand Madagascar having to go through some clearence with regards to the quote's taken from various sources.

I believe all of this crap is related with the 'GUNS N' ROSES' name, not forgetting other members' rights over the songs that were to be played on new GNR tours.

So when the new Gn'R perform and old Gn'R song, do the old Gn'R make any ca$h? - and even if they do, that should not delay an album, as the album is a separate issue. I guess there could be issues with musicians who have had input into CD only to leave the band at a later date.

[rubinho.ma]

So when the new Gn'R perform and old Gn'R song, do the old Gn'R make any ca$h? - and even if they do, that should not delay an album, as the album is a separate issue. I guess there could be issues with musicians who have had input into CD only to leave the band at a later date.

Sure. That's also right. I even remember how Axl mentioned that on some interview or one of his letters, I guess. Chinese Democracy had so many different musicians' contributions, that its autoral rights turned into a giant puzzle, which is surely a pain in the ass to solve.

[redx]

Can't wait for the 1st leak of the album cover 

[superloconoriega]

So when did madagascar first come around then?

[Lucky]

Why is it VR, Slash's Snakepit, Izzy's album donot suffer from huge delays because of legal issues.
Why should Gn'R have so many legal issues standing in their way?

there's a lot of reasons....

1st there's the obvious band name problem...
2nd there's the contract issues. by contract Axl had to deliver the album in 98-99... but failed to.
who knows how many deadlines with the label he has missed, and had to deal with legal issues
3rd the "soundtrack" lawsuit when Slash and Duff sued Axl because he ruined several soundtrack proposals including Black Hawk Down
4th the Greatest Hits lawsuit...
5th problems with newly left members such as buckethead
6th problems with ex employes, such as managers
7th Axl getting sued because of an andy warholl of jonh lennon...
8th the car dealer law problems:)
9th the Clear Channel 2002 tour issues
10th Posibely the AFD 2000. it was planned to be released but someone put a plug on it
11th the transfer to sanctuary also required some management, legal things

12 most recently he was sued for biting the security guard on the 2006 tour:)
13 there's also the airport incident in 98?
14 there's the OMG being forcefully released by the label (possible conflict)
15th there's also the time when he got sued by slash and duff because they mistakenly didnt get the money for their royalties
16th...

there's some others, but I cant remember all of them.
sufficient to say, that at least some of these made havoc in the GNR camp.

[Loaded NightraiN]

13, 14 are 100% cleared up! 

[Krispy Kreme]

Why is it VR, Slash's Snakepit, Izzy's album donot suffer from huge delays because of legal issues.
Why should Gn'R have so many legal issues standing in their way?

there's a lot of reasons....

1st there's the obvious band name problem...
2nd there's the contract issues. by contract Axl had to deliver the album in 98-99... but failed to.
who knows how many deadlines with the label he has missed, and had to deal with legal issues
3rd the "soundtrack" lawsuit when Slash and Duff sued Axl because he ruined several soundtrack proposals including Black Hawk Down
4th the Greatest Hits lawsuit...
5th problems with newly left members such as buckethead
6th problems with ex employes, such as managers
7th Axl getting sued because of an andy warholl of jonh lennon...
8th the car dealer law problems:)
9th the Clear Channel 2002 tour issues
10th Posibely the AFD 2000. it was planned to be released but someone put a plug on it
11th the transfer to sanctuary also required some management, legal things

12 most recently he was sued for biting the security guard on the 2006 tour:)
13 there's also the airport incident in 98?
14 there's the OMG being forcefully released by the label (possible conflict)
15th there's also the time when he got sued by slash and duff because they mistakenly didnt get the money for their royalties
16th...

there's some others, but I cant remember all of them.
sufficient to say, that at least some of these made havoc in the GNR camp.

Thanks for the review. It makes one  think: Good God. What kind of band  and band leader  have I gotten myself into? Talk about LA soap operas. And it mainly seems to happen to Axl Rose. Wonder why that is.

[grog mug]

Madagascar 93'?  Where did you get this info?  I thought he started working on it between 98-2000?

[25]

how is it possible to have a song sitting on the sheave for years and you do not finish it?!

Because a song isn't a jigsaw, you don't just fit all the pieces together and then call it a day. It's a subjective thing, you could take a "finished" song and "I'd like it more if. . . ," and any change you make would prompt more changes, different ideas, new perspectives.

Look at it this way; Any single note in a song could be any one of twelve half-tones, multiplied by whatever number of octaves are available to you. Multiply that by whatever number of instruments you could use. Depending on how open you are to exploring those possibilities, or how much of a perfectionist you may be, toying with one idea could take as much time as you're willing to spend on it. Multiply that by any number of ideas and, well, you get the picture.  No matter how many restrictions you place on yourself, the possibilities are still pretty vast.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that it has taken so long to write and record this album due to scheduling conflicts, time management or "waiting for the muse to arrive." If deadlines were their only concern I'm sure that GNR or any other band could put together an album in a week. The question is whether they want to be remembered for never missing a deadline or for making great music.

[Duffio]

just a little warning to all those involved...
I did not start this thread to provoke, to agitate or piss off anyone. I'm just trying to get some clarification.
I hope none of the mod goes trigger happy and moves this to a dead horse or some other obscure section, since this is a debute of this topic (unlike 99% of topics around).
if anyone thinks I might have misunderstood something, please feel free to participate.

here goes...
last january Axl gave that famous interview where he stated, that they have "26 songs almost done, out of 32 they are working on"...

what makes me kinda confused is,... how come, after so many years, ... they didnt manage to bring at least one song to an end.

why was it so hard to finish;
madagascar, (since 93)
blues, (since at least 2000)
CITR, (since at least '99)
TWAT, (since at least '99)
CD, (since at least '99)
IRS (since at least '99)
etc, etc, etc....

how is it possible to have a song sitting on the sheave for years and you do not finish it?!
Madagascar is an awesome example. it's been 13 years in production... and for the past 6 years it barely changed. Why is it so hard to FINISH those "FINISHING TOUCHES"...

same could be applied for others. why nothing gets finished, but just lays around on the sheave.

Music is not wine.... you dont put it in a cellar and hope it gets better all by it self.

[witty]not to be a know it all.....but they might try actually FINISHING a song before moving on to the next.[/witty]

Don't take this the wrong way too much but. Even IF the album was finished.(hopefully it is and it's in it's final stages)... The band still had to relearn EVERYTHING, old songs, new songs.. not all the band members have been members since all of the songs' conception. They have to master(by master i mean they have to freaken learn everything perfectly), then when they go on the road, they have to start fresh from everything, given everyone from the old days is gone (not just band members!), sound techs etc... all the stuff needed to set up a show and keep the guitars in tune, pyrotechnics etc.. they have to plan all that crap out again.  It's not like the band was tiny and playing shows and they have techs and they just add in people as they go..  this is a band that is a bunch of professional musicians that go from recording to planning a live show and they have to rehearse and know everything. And the recordings have taken forever because, for example, when Mr.Finck had left back in '99 to go back to NIN, Axl decided to scrap his guitar parts....  then buckethead came in and brought a different palette with more colors to paint the record with.  Then he left.. and well you can figure it out.   Then after all this axl has had lawsuits and shit to deal with through trying to put a record together... I mean hopefully, if his mentality is to get all his other stuff taken care of, he can then just concentrate on music then it will rock.. but no one knows.. only him. So that's my 2 cents on why the album/songs have been "worked on and not finished" or "shelved" as you said, for soooOoO long.

[Duffio]

sorry dude. I wasnt trying to lash out on you.
I was talking to the entire forum.
 
that has gone long enough.

those are the common myths on the forum:

1)Axl is a wackjob
2)All songs Axl writes have something to do with Stephanie.


Axl's not a 16 year old teen. He has probably had some other love in his life other then erin and steph... especially in the past 15 years.
what do you guys think? he's been in a celibate since '93?!


I'd like to believe that the reason for CD taking so long is that he had some fine woman next to him, and that he just didnt give a fuck about anything/anybody else

if so, he'd get bigger in my eyes...
and all the canceled shows would be forgiven.

Be careful what you say you may forgive. Ask the fans in Philly or vancouver that same question and see if they would forgive h im for not showing up because of his 'love'(some woman that's probably not worth it) ... and his woman woul be extremely shallow or an ultra bitch to make axl fuck over thousands of fans...  I'm sure you would forgive him if you were in either of those 2 cities when he stood them up..?

[Duffio]

and for the record (no not cd, just the record, u know?), A lot of songs have been in the works for a LOOOONG time, but were scrapped because slash, duff etc.. matt left/fired..   So he had to probably start fresh, and get new musicians... etc.. and more and more musicians and therefore what would have taken a lot less time with agroup of musicians that were used to each other, is delayed even more with a bunch of new  musicians that have to do a whole new process with other musicians that haven't played axl's style of song writing.. etc.. man, you should be able to figure it out instead of yet another *speculation threat* ..  Just use your head a bit more.   Do research, the answers to your questions are there if you piece it all together... just questions like where was axl in philly, or where was he in the first show ofthe tour in 02 will probably never be answered..  but most questions if you research you can find answers.

[redx]

Why is it VR, Slash's Snakepit, Izzy's album donot suffer from huge delays because of legal issues.
Why should Gn'R have so many legal issues standing in their way?

there's a lot of reasons....


10th Posibely the AFD 2000. it was planned to be released but someone put a plug on it


there's some others, but I cant remember all of them.
sufficient to say, that at least some of these made havoc in the GNR camp.

AFD 2000. Whats that about?

I head read that the new line could perform some of the tracks from AFD, but I never knew there was going to be a re-release of the album.

[Duffio]

Why is it VR, Slash's Snakepit, Izzy's album donot suffer from huge delays because of legal issues.
Why should Gn'R have so many legal issues standing in their way?

there's a lot of reasons....


10th Posibely the AFD 2000. it was planned to be released but someone put a plug on it


there's some others, but I cant remember all of them.
sufficient to say, that at least some of these made havoc in the GNR camp.

AFD 2000. Whats that about?

I head read that the new line could perform some of the tracks from AFD, but I never knew there was going to be a re-release of the album.

Kurt loder interview:  They rerecorded it.  But I don't think they intended on rereleasing it.

[Lucky]

Be careful what you say you may forgive. Ask the fans in Philly or vancouver that same question and see if they would forgive h im for not showing up because of his 'love'(some woman that's probably not worth it) ... and his woman woul be extremely shallow or an ultra bitch to make axl fuck over thousands of fans...  I'm sure you would forgive him if you were in either of those 2 cities when he stood them up..?

2001 shows got canceled 2 times. I ended up seeing them only in 2006!

Kurt loder interview:  They rerecorded it.  But I don't think they intended on rereleasing it.

why would they record it if they dont intend on finishing it. it's like throwing money away.