an overlooked fact... that makes you wonder

[Lucky]

just a little warning to all those involved...
I did not start this thread to provoke, to agitate or piss off anyone. I'm just trying to get some clarification.
I hope none of the mod goes trigger happy and moves this to a dead horse or some other obscure section, since this is a debute of this topic (unlike 99% of topics around).
if anyone thinks I might have misunderstood something, please feel free to participate.

here goes...
last january Axl gave that famous interview where he stated, that they have "26 songs almost done, out of 32 they are working on"...

what makes me kinda confused is,... how come, after so many years, ... they didnt manage to bring at least one song to an end.

why was it so hard to finish;
madagascar, (since 93)
blues, (since at least 2000)
CITR, (since at least '99)
TWAT, (since at least '99)
CD, (since at least '99)
IRS (since at least '99)
etc, etc, etc....

how is it possible to have a song sitting on the sheave for years and you do not finish it?!
Madagascar is an awesome example. it's been 13 years in production... and for the past 6 years it barely changed. Why is it so hard to FINISH those "FINISHING TOUCHES"...

same could be applied for others. why nothing gets finished, but just lays around on the sheave.

Music is not wine.... you dont put it in a cellar and hope it gets better all by it self.

[witty]not to be a know it all.....but they might try actually FINISHING a song before moving on to the next.[/witty]

[33]

Cor with marketing knowledge like that it makes you wander why you have not been employed by the band to promote the album! This is not meant as a direct assault at you my man, but dont you think for the love of god that the band and their background people know exactly what they are doing? Everything that happens has a reason, just be happy to be a Guns N Roses fan! it's worked for me since 1987 and I am just very happy in the knowledge that the album will out very soon and I will once again get to see the band play at various gigs! Mike

[Lucky]

Cor with Marketing knowledge like that it makes you wander why you have not been employed by the band to promote the album! This is not meant as a direct assault at you my man, but dont you think for the love of god that the band and their background people know exactly what they are doing? Mike

no insult taken.
I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should do. I'm just trying to get some clarification, because it sounds pretty illogical to me to act that way.

the reason why they didnt employ me is because I dont do economics/marketing... I'm in Architecture... sufficient to say... I chose the wrong profession
 

[gunns1]

yeh interesting way of looking at things,

I think Axl just layed down the vocals and instruments for a song, didnt worry about its finishing touches considering he has a plan in his head for all his songs and how he wants them to turn out, so he doesnt waste any more time on that song, and starts thinking of a new song, and whens hes run out of ideas for new songs, he goes back to the old songs and finishes them. So he doesn't waste any creativity.

Thats one possibility, even if does sound a little f@@kd up?

[Neemo]

you're assuming you know when the songs were finished

that one woman that visited axl...i cant recall her name, anyway when she went to visit Madagascar was in its infancy stages

[jarmo]

Almost finished can mean anything.

It needed background vocals, needed to be mixed, a guitar solo etc etc.



Also, if there's something stopping the release of the album,, you might wanna deal with that before finishing the album....

For much of the time, various legal issues have arisen, demanding that the best way to deal with these things publicly, quite frankly, was to keep our mouths shut in an attempt to ensure the best outcome-- especially one that wouldn?t jeopardize the band or the album.


/jarmo

[Lucky]

yeh interesting way of looking at things,

I think Axl just layed down the vocals and instruments for a song, didnt worry about its finishing touches considering he has a plan in his head for all his songs and how he wants them to turn out, so he doesnt waste any more time on that song, and starts thinking of a new song, and whens hes run out of ideas for new songs, he goes back to the old songs and finishes them. So he doesn't waste any creativity.

Thats one possibility, even if does sound a little f@@kd up?

I always like to believe that he had some mastermind plan to rule the world, and didnt doubt a thing for a long time. but after a while I started asking some questions (that people like to call the "haters"). it reminds me of the witch hunts, and the inquisition. everyone who doesnt agree with the dogmas, gets prosecuted.

one way of explaining it is the semantics...
the "26 almost done" might mean that they are not mixed.
but it's clear to say that more than just mere mixing needed to be done, since things only started being mixed last month.

that brings me to another question;
the 8 weeks thing back in december.

if they had a plan in october, to finish mixing and the 3week pressing time(all parallel with a tour), all in time for a dec. release...
that might indicate that, the current mixing process might not take to long(no more than a month), and that album might soon be finished...
on the other hand, it might mean, that the mercks "3 week lie", wasnt the only reason for album not released in 2006...

[Lucky]

damn... you beat me to it.

Almost finished can mean anything.

It needed background vocals, needed to be mixed, a guitar solo etc etc.

I agree on that. I dont mind them perfecting the songs. but it's kinda disappointing, not to have a single song completed in 13 years.
it also might mean that the song didnt get mixed... but the latest report by del james indicates that that's not the case.

Also, if there's something stopping the release of the album,, you might wanna deal with that before finishing the album....

I accepted the fact that the album aint/wasnt finished. but... 1 song in 13 years.... kinda discurraging. I'm glad I didnt think of it a year ago, or I would have been depressed.

For much of the time, various legal issues have arisen, demanding that the best way to deal with these things publicly, quite frankly, was to keep our mouths shut in an attempt to ensure the best outcome-- especially one that wouldn?t jeopardize the band or the album.


/jarmo

damn that, law thing!
I cant argue on that. it's like a "get out of jail - free" card. 

happy b-day btw.

[Tyson]

I honesty don't think Axl was emotionally ready to really get this thing going until 2006. ?Yea, they played some prior shows and went on tour in 2002, but that doesn't mean he was truly inspired and ready to come back in a full throttle manner. ? He is a human being and regardless of what contracts say and media pundints ignorantly criticize about him, he is on his own path in life. ?Take in a broader perspective, not only has he not done anything wrong in taking so long, but he has that right. ?

[Lucky]

I honesty don't think Axl was emotionally ready to really get this thing going until 2006.  Yea, they played some prior shows and went on tour in 2002, but that doesn't mean he was truly inspired and ready to come back in a full throttle manner.   He is a human being and regardless of what contracts say and media pundints ignorantly criticize about him, he is on his own path in life.  Take in a broader perspective, not only has he not done anything wrong in taking so long, but he has that right. 

I dont know... Labeling someone "emotionally unready" is the worst thing you can say to the band.
us "whiners' are called haters... but calling anyone in the band, a lunatic, mentally unstable is what I consider the words of a hater. especially when we have no insight in what's really going on.

I'm more comfortable with the "they are selfish pricks" explanation, than with a "they are emotionally unstable"... altough I dont agree on either of those.

I know they can do whatever they want. but I'm challenging... questioning how wise was to do(not do) something

[polluxlm]

Cor with marketing knowledge like that it makes you wander why you have not been employed by the band to promote the album! This is not meant as a direct assault at you my man, but dont you think for the love of god that the band and their background people know exactly what they are doing? Everything that happens has a reason, just be happy to be a Guns N Roses fan! it's worked for me since 1987 and I am just very happy in the knowledge that the album will out very soon and I will once again get to see the band play at various gigs! Mike

The background people might know what they're doing, but that doesn't help when they have to wait for Simon Says Now.

It's up to Axl to finish it, and as we have experienced he obviously don't quite know how to do that, at least not in a reasonable time frame.

As to the question why a song can be in the making for so long; we can only guess. I'm thinking the bulk of the reason has to do with Axls psychological state of mind. He could do it if he wants to, but it seems he's waiting for the right sound/thing to happen. He's not really in control over it on a conscious level, at least not in the past. We'll see if 2007 has changed anything.

[Ganja4Life]

I honesty don't think Axl was emotionally ready to really get this thing going until 2006. ?Yea, they played some prior shows and went on tour in 2002, but that doesn't mean he was truly inspired and ready to come back in a full throttle manner. ? He is a human being and regardless of what contracts say and media pundints ignorantly criticize about him, he is on his own path in life. ?Take in a broader perspective, not only has he not done anything wrong in taking so long, but he has that right. ?

you're right..its his right to take this long to put out this album.It's his not ours.HE decides when HE's ready to put it out..and when he does we can all fuckin' rock out to it


until then...people will complain as to why he is taking so long(which he can do by the way)..but I guess it'll all be over sometime this year (hopefully)

[Voodoochild]

He could have a single song completed. But what's the point in releasing individual tracks when everybody is waiting for the album? OMG was released, but it was still a demo, in Axl's words, and I'm sure it would be way better now.

And who said Madagascar is from 1993? As far as I know, that woman who was at Axl's Halloween party said he had just finished writing the song back in 2000, I guess..

[Lucky]

As to the question why a song can be in the making for so long; we can only guess. I'm thinking the bulk of the reason has to do with Axls psychological state of mind. He could do it if he wants to, but it seems he's waiting for the right sound/thing to happen. He's not really in control over it on a conscious level, at least not in the past. We'll see if 2007 has changed anything.

I hope that's not the case with Axl.
because, what you did is describe the way I function. it's not pleasant.
most of my projects start with an inspiration... but that's where it stops, and goes nowhere for months... at least till 2 weeks before the deadline when I go into an overdrive.
I constantly keep changing thins, questioning solutions, loosing my mind over some details, etc, etc...

in the end I'm not pleased with it... making me anxious...
and then I start it all over again.

anyways... to get back to the topic...
that was one of the reasons why I started this thread.... wanted to find out some stuff about me in the process.

He could have a single song completed. But what's the point in releasing individual tracks when everybody is waiting for the album? OMG was released, but it was still a demo, in Axl's words, and I'm sure it would be way better now.

And who said Madagascar is from 1993? As far as I know, that woman who was at Axl's Halloween party said he had just finished writing the song back in 2000, I guess..

Axl said it at some show last year I think...
and I think the halloween was in 1990s not 00... but doesnt matter.

[Axlrose4eva]

Ugh, I swear people who believe that "Everything happens for a reason" and  "Axl knows what he is doing" and "Dont worry theres a plan," are insane.  This wasnt planned, there isnt a well thought out reason for this, and Axl might know what hes doing on stage and singing wise, but the guy didnt even graduate high school.  He's not some well calculated business man whose been calculating market fluctuations, demographics, and record contracts.  Hes a musician who has, for certain reasons that arent his fault and for reasons that are, taken 15+ years to record 1 album, cancelled concerts, hurt his career and let down fans.  He hasnt done anything wrong.  Im not saying there are lack of morals in his decisions or that he doesnt have every right to do what hes doing, but seriously theres no plan, this clearly isnt planned, Axl's not god, hes a musician.  Hes an egotistical, habitually late, highly sensitive, musician.  He's got flaws.  Who knows why they cant put the finishing touches on this thing.  Who knows why he needed BBF and Frank on the album and had to cancel shows in Cali to do this?  I have no doubt that the CD will be great, but the fact is the better the CD is, the more it will hurt...Everytime I heart CITR, Better, The Blues, I dont think "I cant wait for Chinese Democracy," I think "wow imagine what could have been."

[polluxlm]

I hope that's not the case with Axl.
because, what you did is describe the way I function. it's not pleasant.

Well, when it's been over a decade there's not many feasible explanations left.

The only other options I can think of are label interference (highly improbable) and honest perfection (possible, Tom Scholz is in that category).

[Red1]

The way I see it is that the album may have been finished (other than mastering) on a number of occasions - maybe even as far back as '99. ?As time moves on and band members come and go and the musical landscape changes, those songs may not have been representative of the band at their best - and the more time that passes, the more they want, and possibly need, to show the band at their best.

The 2002 tour may have highlighted some things that got good or bad responses from the audience (i.e Silkworms) and that also gave reasonable cause to make some changes.

Band line-ups would also have a major effect. ?Regardless of what people think of Bucket's talent (I am someone who thinks he is great) the band as a unit are obviously playing great together and geling like never before. ?Axl's vocals would undoubtedly become stronger after all the touring. ?So the band as it stood towards the end of the year in 2006 (and currently) is at it's best. ?I would personally want to ensure the album demostrates that - and if that meant re-recording/remixing parts of songs or entire songs, then so be it. ?When a band feels good about things and is happy etc, it will come across in the recordings - it's subtle, but it makes a difference.

I suppose the problem people have is where the line in the sand needs to be drawn..... where someone says "okay, this album is now a good reflection of GNR right now. ?Let's stop tinkering, put it out, and move on to the next one". ?Whether it is partly self-induced or not, that kind of decision is harder and harder to make, as time goes on and the press are on your back, the fans expect, and you know it could be a make or break decision.

Whatever happens, I think we know that the album will deliver these songs in their greatest possible light. ?Then it is up to the masses to decide. ?It will be criticised beyond all other albums purely because of the media-driven circus surrounding it. ?But Axl and the band will know they have given it their all.

I believe it is coming. ?I don't care when it comes out. ?I know it will be good.

[Thorazine Shuffle]

Keep in mind that there have been numerous reports of very long periods of inactivity which would explain alot.

[Voodoochild]

Axl said it at some show last year I think...
and I think the halloween was in 1990s not 00... but doesnt matter.

Hum, I may have missed this. Any idea on what show was this?

Who knows why he needed BBF and Frank on the album and had to cancel shows in Cali to do this?

Axl recorded some parts too. They didn't cancel those dates to do this. In fact, BBF said he had done his parts in the gap between European and USA tours.

[Lucky]

no idea. I found out the same way you did.
someone corrected me:)