The dissing for the March 6th date has begun!

[jarmo]

 If you're just here to complain, then go get a hobby or something and come back when the album is gonna come out.

    *sigh*...aaand we're back to our regularly scheduled program...

Maybe you could answer my simple question then?




/jarmo

[GNRfan2008]

I didn't. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I'm just saying that Chinese Democracy is far different than UYI or most of the albums out there in terms of the timeline. It's just an observation. It's to the point where a lot of people EXPECT delays rather than an actual release. That's different than most albums.

If people expected the tentative release date to be tentative and not final, we wouldn't have all these upset fan posting in this thread would we?

But the fact is, people do love to compare it to other albums and compare GN'R to other bands.

quick question: what would've happened (by March 6th) if you or Mysteron (or whoever sent that request) didn't ask Del/Beta/Axl for an update? 

Judging by the letter, I think they would've given an update as soon as they had a firm release date or maybe when March 6th wasn't a possibility.

As it was pointed out in this thread, I had nothing to do with Del's update.


/jarmo

Given the volatile mindset of many GN'R fans, it probably would have been best if Axl hadn't even said anything about a tentative release date because like you said, most either didn't comprehend the meaning of "tentative" or simply got too excited over the March 6th date.

[Naupis]

Given the volatile mindset of many GN'R fans, it probably would have been best if Axl hadn't even said anything about a tentative release date because like you said, most either didn't comprehend the meaning of "tentative" or simply got too excited over the March 6th date.

He didn't have much of a choice at the time. Giving an early 07 date was as good a way to get fans to forget about the disappointment of the 06 guarantee as possible. Had his statement in December said that not only was the album not coming out in 06 as promised, but that there was no timeline in sight for release there would have been a bloodbath of anger/frustration on this board. At least giving some semblance of a date (even if we knew it was not going to happen) gave some sort of hope we could be near the end of the line with this, and in turn picked up the morale of the board temporarily.

[Bartlet]

I didn't. Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I'm just saying that Chinese Democracy is far different than UYI or most of the albums out there in terms of the timeline. It's just an observation. It's to the point where a lot of people EXPECT delays rather than an actual release. That's different than most albums.

If people expected the tentative release date to be tentative and not final, we wouldn't have all these upset fan posting in this thread would we?

But the fact is, people do love to compare it to other albums and compare GN'R to other bands.

quick question: what would've happened (by March 6th) if you or Mysteron (or whoever sent that request) didn't ask Del/Beta/Axl for an update??

Judging by the letter, I think they would've given an update as soon as they had a firm release date or maybe when March 6th wasn't a possibility.

As it was pointed out in this thread, I had nothing to do with Del's update.


/jarmo

Given the volatile mindset of many GN'R fans, it probably would have been best if Axl hadn't even said anything about a tentative release date because like you said, most either didn't comprehend the meaning of "tentative" or simply got too excited over the March 6th date.

he shouldntve issued that date, tentative or not. But to be fair he was gonna lose either way, as, at that time, people were crying out for an update and he responded - if he hadnt people woulda bitched anyway. 

he could have handled the whole merck/2006 thing better, but whats done is done...

...best thing now would be no updates or just brief but factual updates such as del's recent comments. If it all goes well i believe we could be told a release date before the tour starts. IF ALL GOES WELL, THAT IS.

[bigbri]

And you're the kind of person who loves to point out how others are fools and you're the enlightened one?

/jarmo

Question: What kind of fucking updates do you want at this point?

/jarmo

Gotta agree with Jarmo on this. GNR is not gonna hold your fucking hand as you wait, consoling you with reassuring words every time you get upset. They have better things to worry about than react to the whims and concerns of a relatively few number of fans on an Internet fan site. The fact that they even consider to visit here occasionally should be considered an incredible gesture.

You got your update, now wait for the next one.

[GNRfan2008]

Given the volatile mindset of many GN'R fans, it probably would have been best if Axl hadn't even said anything about a tentative release date because like you said, most either didn't comprehend the meaning of "tentative" or simply got too excited over the March 6th date.

He didn't have much of a choice at the time. Giving an early 07 date was as good a way to get fans to forget about the disappointment of the 06 guarantee as possible. Had his statement in December said that not only was the album not coming out in 06 as promised, but that there was no timeline in sight for release there would have been a bloodbath of anger/frustration on this board. At least giving some semblance of a date (even if we knew it was not going to happen) gave some sort of hope we could be near the end of the line with this, and in turn picked up the morale of the board temporarily.

If we knew it was going to not happen, then why did so many folks get their hopes up and then start whining about it? I figured all along he was doing it to get everyone off his back at the time and I think it's safe to say that pretty much everyone would have done the same thing he did given the situation. I guess it's just unfortunate so many took it to heart.

[clau68]

I agree with Sickthings3. Axl does not owe us, I personally owe Axl many happy moments listening his music, watching his videos. While CD is realesed I will continue enjoying all the wonderful music Axl has made including the new songs GNR have played in the concerts. I have not paid for these concerts because I live in South America but I can enjoy them for youtube.

[tHeElEcTrIcSiNtAr]

And you're the kind of person who loves to point out how others are fools and you're the enlightened one?

/jarmo

Question: What kind of fucking updates do you want at this point?

/jarmo

Gotta agree with Jarmo on this. GNR is not gonna hold your fucking hand as you wait, consoling you with reassuring words every time you get upset. They have better things to worry about than react to the whims and concerns of a relatively few number of fans on an Internet fan site. The fact that they even consider to visit here occasionally should be considered an incredible gesture.

You got your update, now wait for the next one.

Thank you very much.

[GNRfan2008]

And you're the kind of person who loves to point out how others are fools and you're the enlightened one?

/jarmo

Question: What kind of fucking updates do you want at this point?

/jarmo

Gotta agree with Jarmo on this. GNR is not gonna hold your fucking hand as you wait, consoling you with reassuring words every time you get upset. They have better things to worry about than react to the whims and concerns of a relatively few number of fans on an Internet fan site. The fact that they even consider to visit here occasionally should be considered an incredible gesture.

You got your update, now wait for the next one.

Well said, well said. I completely agree.

[jarmo]

he shouldntve issued that date, tentative or not. But to be fair he was gonna lose either way, as at that time, people were crying out for an update and he responded. best thing now would be no updates or just brief but factual updates such as del's recent comments. If it all goes well i believe we could be told a release date before the tour starts. IF ALL GOES WELL, THAT IS.

Some seem to think March 6th was impossible.

I think if things had gone Axl's way, the album would've been out on the 6th.


As others have pointed out, people would've been pissed if he didn't say anything about a possible release date.




/jarmo

[hpantazo]

And you're the kind of person who loves to point out how others are fools and you're the enlightened one?

/jarmo

jarmo, aren't you slightly off-topic?

why do you have to contribute absolutely nothing to these conversations but off-topic snarky remarks about this person/that person?

? i'm sorry, but for the past two weeks, this site has become nothing more than a battle ground for the most tiresome debates of who's a fan/non-fan, and whether any of us have a right to complain...and instead of helping you just antagonize and fuel the fire...

Off topic? The guy was attacking somebody because he had a different opinion.

How lame is that?


And where the hell do you people get the "no updates" crap from?

I'll repeat it again:

December: Axl says they need to do some minor work on album.
January: That work is being done
February: It's announced on the band's official site that the recording is done and mixing is under way, but that since the album isn't ready for release there's no release date for it.


Until the album is mixed and mastered, there's no way they're gonna set a release date to keep you guys happy. It would make no sense.

 What is the real problem? I'm confused.

Seriously, you can't be upset because the album wasn't released on its tentative release date.

Even the UYI albums were pushed back a while. Remember? One guy mixed it and they weren't happy with the result so Bill Price was hired to mix it.



Lack of communication? There's no news on the album, it's being mixed. Do you need to be re-assured every other week that the mixing is still going on?

Question: What kind of fucking updates do you want at this point?




/jarmo

Jarmo, get your facts straight, I didn't attack anybody, I posted my opinion. You are the one who keeps attacking people. If you want to stop all of the shit on here you should set a good example instead of instigating it.

[GNRfan2008]

Jarmo, I have a suggestion. Maybe you should shut this forum down for a while? Once we get a release date, then all the pointless bickering will be gone and people will actually talk about constructive things. At the moment, however, everyone is simply grasping at straws for topics to talk about (whether it's whining about the album not coming out, whining about Axl's braids, or talking about some other pointless crap like Axl's clothes lol).

[misterID]

The album will be out when its out. This is the way Axl works. We all know it. But people have the right to be frustrated. In 2004 people waited a very long time for the release date that Axl said was coming, which never did, just silence... Not including the times before or after... That's disappointment, and yes, it pisses people off.

[Jim Bob]

And you're the kind of person who loves to point out how others are fools and you're the enlightened one?

/jarmo

Question: What kind of fucking updates do you want at this point?

/jarmo

Gotta agree with Jarmo on this. GNR is not gonna hold your fucking hand as you wait, consoling you with reassuring words every time you get upset. They have better things to worry about than react to the whims and concerns of a relatively few number of fans on an Internet fan site. The fact that they even consider to visit here occasionally should be considered an incredible gesture.

You got your update, now wait for the next one.

but why not? i need them to hold my hand.  I need comfort damn it!  I am a GNR fan and so they owe me that comfort. 

[DoubleTalkingJive]

I am a GNR fan just like the rest of us...but at some point when will the insanity stop.   Bands are supposed to put out albums, are they not?  Seriously, I am not trying to be "a whiner" but is it not what bands do?  Have they not been a band for 10 years now?  If it was another band that did this, woudn't some of you be ranking on that particular band if it ever did come up in conversation?
This is why people outside of this community view GNR and Axl as a joke.   It's not something I am saying, it's something THEY say and at least for me, I can't/won't defend it anymore.   My last time for that was last year.

[muffinass]

which one, this one?

If people expected the tentative release date to be tentative and not final, we wouldn't have all these upset fan posting in this thread would we?


/jarmo

 ? ?i disagree with you...yes, of course there are always going to be spastic fans that will misinterpret any statement that comes out of the GNR camp...is the solution to NOT release any other statements?

 ? ? i'm personally quite annoyed (i stopped caring about any machinations within the GNR camp as 2006 finished) as i'm sure other people are at the lack of communication...people started getting pissed off because GNR was booking tour dates, and there was NO WORD on the single/massive promotion that was discussed/ALBUM.PERIOD.

 ? ?we've seen this before haven't we? 2002...let's not count, because Goldstein fucked Axl over then...2006 a successful tour, with NO news of CD, even though it's being touted as getting a 2006 release, and what do u know...Axl gets screwed over AGAIN by his manager...it's either stupidity or carelesness...whatever, those are my thoughts, carrying on...

 ? 2007 comes along, a year of diff. approach of PR (Axl's letter was fairly open and did say that fans will be updated as plans change)...and what happens? Tour dates pop up...no news on a single, on the album, until people start getting frustrated, at which point somebody goes to the GNR camp and ASKS for an update to placate us?
 ? ?
 ? ?i underscore the fact that somebody had to awaken the GNR camp about those small-in-number, big-with-passion fanbase that has supported them for the past years.
 ? ?and to add insult to injury, it's NOT Axl who responds, it's Del...no, i'm not some Axl-obsessed fan, but when he says that he will notify the fans, i expect that to happen (after all, if you can't trust Axl, WHO can u trust...huh? the band members who can't speak about the CD?)
 ? and yes, it's a big difference that it's Del James and not Axl, because last time i checked big-mouth Del James laid some harsh words for the people prowling these forums complaining about the late start times (quite unprofessional..but i guess that's rock n' roll right?)...and that was touted as a running-series of updates, of intimate interaction between fans & the band through mr. James...guess what happened to that project too.

 ? ?......so please Jarmo et al...call my tone cynical, but these 'events', when stacked up don't look too impressive for "the most dangerous band in the world"...

 ? ?anyway, i'll retreat to find some hobbies and come back when things get moving...i'll join the disinterested on the bench

[misterID]

Just for the record, Axl doesn't care how much you suck up to him. Even if you think Beta reports it to him, which she doesn't. ?

[clau68]

I can not understand why people in this forum attack Jarmo. Please a fan site is a place where people express your admiration for someone. But some people want to use this forum to critizice Axl and I agree with Jarmo in not allowing this behavior. I visit this site because I love GNR, I would never waste my time visiting a band site for bitching about the band. ?I would like to read here post of people who support Axl.

[misterID]

I can not understand why people in this forum attack Jarmo. Please a fan site is a place where people express your admiration for someone. But some people want to use this forum to critizice Axl and I agree with Jarmo in not allowing this behavior. I visit this site because I love GNR, I would never waste my time visiting a band site for bitching about the band. ?I would like to read here post of people who support Axl.

We are fans, but you're about 5 years late for the love fest.

[downzy56]

he shouldntve issued that date, tentative or not. But to be fair he was gonna lose either way, as at that time, people were crying out for an update and he responded. best thing now would be no updates or just brief but factual updates such as del's recent comments. If it all goes well i believe we could be told a release date before the tour starts. IF ALL GOES WELL, THAT IS.

Some seem to think March 6th was impossible.

I think if things had gone Axl's way, the album would've been out on the 6th.


As others have pointed out, people would've been pissed if he didn't say anything about a possible release date.




/jarmo

Again, Axl's control over this project is relevant to the creation process.  Once that has wrapped, things are somewhat out of his control.  And that's the point many have made....  If you were shooting for a tentative release date of March 6th, you have the recording process completed well before.

The other issue is the notion of tentative.  If completion of a project is tentatively scheduled for the beginning of March, you're kind of missing your mark if you deliver it in June.  It's one thing if the record company were to hold the album back for promotional purposes (or whoever is in charge feels like sales would be better in the summer), but again, since it's been reported that the band was still recording well into February, you can't really blame record company.

I remembered when Axl mentioned March 6th I was excited because at the time I assumed that everything was done.  If March 6th was to be the day, recording/mixing/mastering had to be completed, or near completed (again, Axl did say it takes 8 weeks once the album has been handed in).  Once it was reported that they were recording in January, it was pretty much evident that there wasn't a chance that they were going to meet the March 6th date.  So the point that myself and others are trying to make is this: Axl and the band dropped the ball when they announced March 6th as a tentative date knowing full well that recording/mixing/mastering wasn't close to being complete.

In the end, this kind of a silly argument, as the good news is that we're closer now than ever. 

Cheers,

Andrew