The dissing for the March 6th date has begun!

[novrain91]

GNR releasing the album before it's ready (not good enough quality) would be a bad thing, but it's really sad and border line pathetic that it has taken this much TIME to record something that is properly "ready" to be released. ?I don't see how anybody could argue with that. ?I mean Appetite was made for pennies in a short period of time and GNR Lies was recorded in one day. ?They had great material because they were focused projects (Get in and lay down some kick ass tracks and get out). ?Use Your Illusions took too much time and as a result were basically a clusterfuck with some good material spread out here and there. ?It would have been a great album (perhaps legendary) if they would of been focused and cut it down to 1 cd. ?I'm worried that same problem with ring true with Chinese Democracy because Axl obviously seems to be again making the mistake of thinking about it too much. ?It seems to go against all logic concerning previous success.

[Ganja4Life]

I have no idea how having no album out affects ticket sales. I mean most fans are going to guns n roses to hear the classics anyways .. on top of that , the band plays 6 or more songs from democracy at almost every show.

Bleh!

If it was called the Chinese Democracy Tour.

Hello? They could've called it the "Escape From The Studio - part two" tour and people would've bought tickets based on the fact that it's GN'R.

It's not like GN'R is the only band touring before their new album is in the shops.

Metallica seems to do it every summer.




/jarmo

Bud doesn't Metallica actually release albums??

Sorry, easy come back.? But I think here Jarmo you and I are starting to disagree on certain matters.? Your first analogy of working on something only for it not to be done at a desired date/time due to the obstacles put forth by others doesn't quite mesh well with this situation.? First and foremost, Axl's letter stated that there were minor complications left to be finished.? Perhaps it's a difference of perception, but recording or re-recording is not a minor complication.? When you go back to recording, that now takes you back to square one with mixing and mastering.? Axl acknowledges that it takes 8 weeks once an album is finished for it to receive a proper launch.? I can't see how it's anyone other than Axl or the band's fault for not getting this thing out close to March 6th if another month or two of recording was still required back in mid December (exceptions are given if legal or contractual negotiations were the main culprit, thus giving the band further time to record).? I'll believe Axl thought March 6th was plausible at the time he wrote his letter if he assumed that all recording and mixing (or mixing of possible singles) was to be completed by the first week of January.? If he knew that recording was still needed well into February, then Axl's letter is rendered fraudulent.? And to suggest that studio scheduling conflicts resulted in unexpected delays is reaching a tad.? Between New York City and LA, there are numerous studios the band could have used.? If you own a reputable studio and Axl asks to rent it out to put the finishing touches on one of the most anticipated albums in the last thirty years, are you really going to tell him to get in line and wait his turn?

I'm also getting a little sick of the damned if he do, damned if he don't excuse:

On one hand we'd have those who'd take the date as set in stone and would attack him if it didn't come out on the 6th.

If he didn't say anything, we would've had people complaining about how he can't give updates.

Here's how the band can actually gain overall fan approval: say something and actually do it.? Now a lot of people on here have dissected Axl's letter like crazy, saying he said this, he didn't say this.? Alright, fine.? But let's look at the facts.? There's now been three "Chinese Democracy World Tours" and soon a forth for an album that is still not finished and has no firm release date.? ?There have been countless instances of insinuation or direct claims about the pending release of Chinese Democracy from way back in 2001 from Axl to other band members to management.? To suggest that GNR's fan base hasn't been strung along for quite some time is without merit.? Then finally Axl gives his fans a real communication in the form of his open letter.? Some chose not to believe it from the get go, others were skeptical, and other's put their faith in Axl's words and believed despite many years of disappointment.? I was skeptical, but it was great to hear Axl at least acknowledge the album and that every effort was going to be made to get this thing out as soon as possible.? Sure we could have damned him for not giving a tentative release date just as many are damning him now for not meeting it.? But in the end, he did give a release date and it seems like we're still at the very least three months away from a plausible release date.? Having recently been exposed to the recording process and the music industry myself, I know that minor complications do not push an album's release date back by three to four months.? If you're going to live by the sword, you die by the sword.? You can't excuse yourself by saying "we can't win either way" for something that was instigated by yourself.

In the end, it's hard being a loyal fan of a group, team, or organization when, in your mind, they keep fucking you over.? As a Maple Leafs fan, I know that better than anyone.? All that said, as much grumble and crying exists here today and will continue until the album is finally out, I will never doubt the love for the band and our braid-headed hero by anyone here.? If everyone here hated the band so much, they wouldn't keep coming back and would have given up on the band a long time ago.? Like it or not Jarmo, you're providing a service that's very valuable to the band itself.? Bitching, whinning and overall complaining has served for many (and myself) as a release outlet that has allowed many of us to stay on this wild ride.? One wonders if the hardcore of us would still remain so loyal without the internet and its mechanisms for open dialogue.?

The band, this site, and certain individuals associate with the band have done some great things for us fans (most notably, the pre-sales for the New York warm up shows).? It would be unfortunate that we do not acknowledge the great things that this band has done for us.? Even though I'm not listening to Chinese Democracy today, that doesn't mean I won't be waiting at opening hours to get my hands on a copy (well, I'll probably be buying more than one).? As I write this I look up at my wall and see seven sealed Guns N' Roses LPs, two Use your Illusion Posters, and one RIAA Gold Album Award for Appetite.? I then look over to my three keyboard/synths/pianos and remember that if it was for Axl Rose sitting down and writing November Rain, my life would be very different.? So yeah I'm disappointed at Axl and the band for not living up to what they were trying to do because I too, along with many here, have a lot invested in Chinese Democracy.? But at the end of the day, I don't forget that I'm indebted to this band and will always support all efforts made by this band.

Cheers,

Andrew

dude, i didnt even read all that, but i cant fucking wait ot see what jarmo replies!?

what he said

[younggunner]

Bud doesn't Metallica actually release albums? 

Sorry, easy come back.  But I think here Jarmo you and I are starting to disagree on certain matters.  Your first analogy of working on something only for it not to be done at a desired date/time due to the obstacles put forth by others doesn't quite mesh well with this situation.  First and foremost, Axl's letter stated that there were minor complications left to be finished.  Perhaps it's a difference of perception, but recording or re-recording is not a minor complication.  When you go back to recording, that now takes you back to square one with mixing and mastering.  Axl acknowledges that it takes 8 weeks once an album is finished for it to receive a proper launch.  I can't see how it's anyone other than Axl or the band's fault for not getting this thing out close to March 6th if another month or two of recording was still required back in mid December (exceptions are given if legal or contractual negotiations were the main culprit, thus giving the band further time to record).  I'll believe Axl thought March 6th was plausible at the time he wrote his letter if he assumed that all recording and mixing (or mixing of possible singles) was to be completed by the first week of January.  If he knew that recording was still needed well into February, then Axl's letter is rendered fraudulent.  And to suggest that studio scheduling conflicts resulted in unexpected delays is reaching a tad.  Between New York City and LA, there are numerous studios the band could have used.  If you own a reputable studio and Axl asks to rent it out to put the finishing touches on one of the most anticipated albums in the last thirty years, are you really going to tell him to get in line and wait his turn?

I'm also getting a little sick of the damned if he do, damned if he don't excuse:


Quote from: jarmo on Today at 05:18:02 PM
On one hand we'd have those who'd take the date as set in stone and would attack him if it didn't come out on the 6th.

If he didn't say anything, we would've had people complaining about how he can't give updates.


Here's how the band can actually gain overall fan approval: say something and actually do it.  Now a lot of people on here have dissected Axl's letter like crazy, saying he said this, he didn't say this.  Alright, fine.  But let's look at the facts.  There's now been three "Chinese Democracy World Tours" and soon a forth for an album that is still not finished and has no firm release date.   There have been countless instances of insinuation or direct claims about the pending release of Chinese Democracy from way back in 2001 from Axl to other band members to management.  To suggest that GNR's fan base hasn't been strung along for quite some time is without merit.  Then finally Axl gives his fans a real communication in the form of his open letter.  Some chose not to believe it from the get go, others were skeptical, and other's put their faith in Axl's words and believed despite many years of disappointment.  I was skeptical, but it was great to hear Axl at least acknowledge the album and that every effort was going to be made to get this thing out as soon as possible.  Sure we could have damned him for not giving a tentative release date just as many are damning him now for not meeting it.  But in the end, he did give a release date and it seems like we're still at the very least three months away from a plausible release date.  Having recently been exposed to the recording process and the music industry myself, I know that minor complications do not push an album's release date back by three to four months.  If you're going to live by the sword, you die by the sword.  You can't excuse yourself by saying "we can't win either way" for something that was instigated by yourself.

In the end, it's hard being a loyal fan of a group, team, or organization when, in your mind, they keep fucking you over.  As a Maple Leafs fan, I know that better than anyone.  All that said, as much grumble and crying exists here today and will continue until the album is finally out, I will never doubt the love for the band and our braid-headed hero by anyone here.  If everyone here hated the band so much, they wouldn't keep coming back and would have given up on the band a long time ago.  Like it or not Jarmo, you're providing a service that's very valuable to the band itself.  Bitching, whinning and overall complaining has served for many (and myself) as a release outlet that has allowed many of us to stay on this wild ride.  One wonders if the hardcore of us would still remain so loyal without the internet and its mechanisms for open dialogue. 

The band, this site, and certain individuals associate with the band have done some great things for us fans (most notably, the pre-sales for the New York warm up shows).  It would be unfortunate that we do not acknowledge the great things that this band has done for us.  Even though I'm not listening to Chinese Democracy today, that doesn't mean I won't be waiting at opening hours to get my hands on a copy (well, I'll probably be buying more than one).  As I write this I look up at my wall and see seven sealed Guns N' Roses LPs, two Use your Illusion Posters, and one RIAA Gold Album Award for Appetite.  I then look over to my three keyboard/synths/pianos and remember that if it was for Axl Rose sitting down and writing November Rain, my life would be very different.  So yeah I'm disappointed at Axl and the band for not living up to what they were trying to do because I too, along with many here, have a lot invested in Chinese Democracy.  But at the end of the day, I don't forget that I'm indebted to this band and will always support all efforts made by this band.

Cheers,

Andrew

well said and for the most part I agree.


Its getting insane now. Either put up or shut up. When nothing is said there are no expectations just complaints. Broken expectations are far worse then complaints. Its not even in the same league.

They seriously need to wrap the dam thing up and hand it in beofre they go on these tours. I dont mind a May or June release but anything after that as I have said in the past...we are simply just fools. And if any1 here thinks otherwise then seek help...me included...we are all big fools if that album is not in our hands by June. How many times are we gonan think and say the same old crap?

People like Beta and others can pm me and say im dead wrong but enough is enough already. If you have any intention of releasing this album then do it. Otherwise just come out and say that your not. If he still wants to tour people will still go. But let the myth of CD and us the blind get off the wagon with some dignity....

As great as the past yr or 2 has been, no1 can defend Axl. He always shoots himself in the foot by opening his mouth. You cant defend someone when they say on more than one occasion that the album will no doubt be out and then not deliver. And then claim only minor details need to be worked out...instead of partying with societys elite go in the studio and bang out whatever the fuck needs to be done. Societys elite will always be there.....

all we want is for this party to get started..simple as that.all we want is to enjoy the album and the band and see them reap the rewards of there HARD WORK. so lets go already

[AxlsMainMan]

Stay tuned to www.gnronline.com for news and information on Chinese Democracy coming soon.

[jarmo]

They seriously need to wrap the dam thing up and hand it in beofre they go on these tours.

What proof do you have of them doing the opposite?

Please tell me what information you have regarding the upcoming shows that we don't have....

People like Beta and others can pm me and say im dead wrong but enough is enough already. If you have any intention of releasing this album then do it. Otherwise just come out and say that your not. If he still wants to tour people will still go. But let the myth of CD and us the blind get off the wagon with some dignity....

Oh boy....


You don't seem to listen when you're being told something important.

Why is that?

As great as the past yr or 2 has been, no1 can defend Axl. He always shoots himself in the foot by opening his mouth. You cant defend someone when they say on more than one occasion that the album will no doubt be out and then not deliver. And then claim only minor details need to be worked out...instead of partying with societys elite go in the studio and bang out whatever the fuck needs to be done. Societys elite will always be there.....

You're wasting all your energy on the complaining and fail to see what's actually happening.

#1 - The recording is done. 100%. Not 90%....
#2 - Mixing is going on now. That's often done after the recording but before the actual release. You don't want to skip this step just to please a younggunner on a GN'R board who's feeling unhappy.
#3 - Axl will always "shoot himself in the foot" because there's people who will always twist his words to fit their needs. It doesn't matter what he says. Either he's lying or it's not even his words..... 






/jarmo

[floppyfish27]

here it is IMO!

When the album is released, it will have a different name other than chinese democracy... 
then most of you people will still bitch because he never released "chinese democracy" and you will still sit and groan over the fact he never came through with his promise!  (what you view was said by the date given

[Danny]

Here's the problem...I'm going to make it real simple.  The band said recording is done.  Alot of people don't believe it.


It's that simple.

[jarmo]

Here's the problem...I'm going to make it real simple.  The band said recording is done.  Alot of people don't believe it.


It's that simple.

As I said, some think they're constantly being lied to by the band.

The same people who complain about the lack of updates.....



/jarmo

[Jim Bob]

Here's the problem...I'm going to make it real simple.  The band said recording is done.  Alot of people don't believe it.


It's that simple.

it was posted on the official website.   is that not enough?   Do they just put up whatever bullshit they want? 

[Jackamo!]

They can put up whatever they want.

[Danny]

Quote from: Danny on Today at 07:47:57 PM
Here's the problem...I'm going to make it real simple. ?The band said recording is done. ?Alot of people don't believe it.


It's that simple.



As I said, some think they're constantly being lied to by the band.

The same people who complain about the lack of updates.....



/jarmo

Dammit Jarmo. ?Don't be so prejudiced. ?I'm not complaining about the lack of updates. ?I don't think they should have done any. ?And I don't think I'm constantly lied to by the band. ?A few times, maybe...but I don't think constantly. ?Hell, I don't think we're being lied to here. ?I just think that it's poor PR. ?We on this board represent a very, very small percentage of the potential buyers of this album. ?If they're going to be saying anything they need to make double-damned sure that what they say is really, really, REALLY clear for the little brains that hear about GNR in passing or who will report on it.

[Bartlet]

Here's the problem...I'm going to make it real simple.? The band said recording is done.? Alot of people don't believe it.


It's that simple.

Really...? i believed it, and thus far, believe it still. I've not sen anyone say they dont believe it. Things can change of course. Such as the minds of temperemental rock stars.

[burden]

Axl has cried wolf way too many times to have any credibility. It may come out "soon" and some will point to the fact that this last update was basically on target. ?However, I don't blame anyone for doubting what Axl or the GnR camp say because too many times its been "implied" that the album is coming out only for there to be NO indication that it was even being planned. ?I find last year bizarre and a classic picture of how Axl will say anything and then blame other for his problems. ?How could he not know that the album could not be finished by years end before going on tour? ?That makes zero sen sense to a thinking person. ?He blamed his manager just like he blamed the long line of others as to why he couldn't get the album done. ?The truth is not shameful, he should just state it and I bet he'd be let off the hook. ?As best as I can tell based on the NY Times Article and others is that very little got done for the last 15 years. ?I think Axl was depressed after a bad break-up and that is a valid reason for leaving the biz for awhile. ?In the meantime his original bandmates left him behind because he was unable to focus on the Guns album. ?I'm sure Axl has a lot to blame in this scenario but he could garner sympathy for once in his life as well. ?In the past year or so it seems like he's put things together, which is great for him personally. ?

Now, as far as credibility goes, I think telling his story would go along way to restore it. Until then nobody is to blame for not believing him. ?

[Danny]

As I'm reading this, I'm listening to Help!, Rubber Soul, Sgt Pepper, The White Album, Yellow Submarine, Abby Road, and Let It Be.  All of these albums came out within 5 years of each other.


Axl...if you're reading this...dude, it's been too long, man.

[Bartlet]

As I'm reading this, I'm listening to Help!, Rubber Soul, Sgt Pepper, The White Album, Yellow Submarine, Abby Road, and Let It Be.? All of these albums came out within 5 years of each other.


Axl...if you're reading this...dude, it's been too long, man.

Yeah, but the beatles churned out such crap 

[Jackamo!]

As I'm reading this, I'm listening to Help!, Rubber Soul, Sgt Pepper, The White Album, Yellow Submarine, Abby Road, and Let It Be.

All at once?

[J?]

I mean honestly its a long wait and we have heard the story that soon is the word and this year etc...

But you either wait or you don't either way maybe it will happen who knows?

[mega_music]

WOW! I figured there would be people moaning and crying today. Go on and live your life and one day this year Chinese Democracy will be released. Dont live your life around a cd release. I have been waiting a very long time and I have learned to only believe the album will finally be released when I see it sitting on the store shelves. Be thankful Axl and the guys were highly active in 2006, and 2007 will be even better. Things are finally good to be a Guns N Roses fan, lets not ruin this by bitching because March 6 2007 was not the day!

Quote from: Danny on Today at 07:47:57 PM
 We on this board represent a very, very small percentage of the potential buyers of this album.  If they're going to be saying anything they need to make double-damned sure that what they say is really, really, REALLY clear for the little brains that hear about GNR in passing or who will report on it.

But you also have to realize, those potential buyers had no clue what March 6 2007 was. When the time is right everyone will know what the release date will be because Axl and the record company are going to smear it everywhere.

[bigbri]

I know this is gonna sound too logical, and I'm sure someone else has said it in this thread. I couldn't read every post. But GNR gave us our update via Del James. That's enough for me now. But if they go on tour without any further news or a single on the radio or maybe an ad campaign started, then I think we'll have real reason to worry and bitch. Just my 2 cents.

[jarmo]

As I'm reading this, I'm listening to Help!, Rubber Soul, Sgt Pepper, The White Album, Yellow Submarine, Abby Road, and Let It Be.  All of these albums came out within 5 years of each other.

Are they all 80 minute cds?

Did they make multiple videos for each album and tour?



Just saying, times change..... A bit!




/jarmo