The dissing for the March 6th date has begun!

[horsey]

im dissapointed but what else is new ,right.no use bitching for what it gets nowere.axl will do what axl wants regardless of us fans.we have no real say i take it then.

[swedcrip]

I don't care that it didn't meet the tentative date. ?But after all the jerking around of fans that Merc did last year to promote the tour, Axl finally did the right thing and came clean (regardless if you believe his or Merk's story). ?Now that this target isn't being met, who'd honestly believe a new date anyways? ?So I really don't need another date from Axl. ?I just wanted an update on where in the process they are. ?And I got that. ?But still I don't feel satisfied. ?It seems like there's gotta be a little more info that could be shared than this "brief" Del James update. ?I've gotta think there has been legal madness behind the scenes for years. ?Not entirely why things have been delayed again and again, but a reason behind the lack of info given to the fans. ?But I also have a sneaking suspicion that Axl doesn't really care. ?If so, that's his right. ?I guess in the end most of us are suckers to keep giving attention and money regardless ...

[JimMorrison4]

Just because Axl used the word "tentative" doesn't make it excusable that the cd was delayed AGAIN.

When was the album ever delayed. They had never set a date for the record before, this was the first time. Just because you believed in dates and shit that were made up doesnt mean that it was delayed. The album has never been delayed until now, it just hasnt been finished.

And for the record, Axl said that it wasnt a promise, a lie, or a guarantee. Maybe you should look up the word tentative.

Are you new?

It's been delayed since this exchange took place in 1999:

"Loder: When do you think we will actually see this album? Is it possible to say early next year?

Rose: We're hoping. Yes, definitely, everything seems to be going well."

And it's been delayed about 2 times a year, every year, since then.

Saying March 6 was tentative isn't enough of a shield for Axl to dodge the backlash. In business, if I'm putting money into something and someone tells me they'll try to have it ready by a certain date, it better be ready by that date or sooner. If it's not, I'm going to be pissed and there are going to be problems. I don't care if you "tried." You didn't try hard enough.

[Mutherfunker]

You hit the nail 100% on the head. He gets the poor press he does because he does nothing to stop it. It's like the litte kid who keeps putting his hand on the stove and complaing about getting burned when you've told him repeatedly that he wouldn't get burned anymore if he stopped putting his hand on the stove. There comes a certain point that you no longer feel bad for someone who seems to purposely sabatoge their life when there is a clear alternative that would alleviate all the stress and suffering.

Hang on, what are you blathering about? I thought it was the people on this forum doing the complaining about articles, etc not Axl?

I don't remember Axl complaining about bad press, or asking for your sympathy. He seems to make jokes about his bad press if anything.

@#$%Funker

[AxlRose4eva1]

idk if people here know what tentative means.

tentative: 1. Not fully worked out, concluded, or agreed on; provisional: tentative plans. 2.Uncertain; hesitant.

It doesnt mean false or not real or illisuonary or complete guess. ?It means not fully worked out or hesistant. ?Axl set this date out to fail, but he still set a date. ?While news agencies should set out a date Axl said this was a "first time" thing and he also used the word "release date." ?He didnt say we hope to release around March 6th. ?He set a hesitant release date. ?All that means is that he set a release date that he wasnt completely sure would work.

These sites bashing him are telling the truth, theyre omitting tentatively because it doesnt make sense. ?Its like saying im possibly going to plan on releasing an album on this date or i am hesitantly going to set an exact date for the record. ?We are GNR fans and we have different opinions as to what was going on, but bands dont "tentatively" set release dates for dates only 2-3 months in the future. ?The whole point of setting a release date is that its the day you plan and have worked out and concluded is when youre going to release it. ?So when people read Axl's statement and see that there is no statement explaining exactly what happened so people just assume its Axl being Axl and thats the story people want to read so thats what theyll tell.

[Danny]

I don't remember Axl complaining about bad press

You should pick up Use Your Illusion II. ?Listen to track 5.

[Mutherfunker]

Oh, I thought the conversation was about the situation now, or even the past ten years when Axl has had very little to do with the press.

Now I realise we were talking about 16 years ago when he was mad at journalists he thought abused the press coverage GNR allowed them to have, after which he stopped dealing with the press for many years.

Must be my bad.... somewhere.... 

@#$%Funker

[Danny]

Oh, I thought the conversation was about the situation now, or even the past ten years when Axl has had very little to do with the press.

Now I realise we were talking about 16 years ago when he was mad at journalists he thought abused the press coverage GNR allowed them to have, after which he stopped dealing with the press for many years.

Must be my bad.... somewhere.... 

@#$%Funker

You're right.  I just thought it was funny when that guy said "when did Axl complain about the press"?


My bad.

[jarmo]

And it's been delayed about 2 times a year, every year, since then.

 

And Use Your Illusion was delayed about ten years because the first songs were started on then..... 


Some people are obviously not playing attention. Have you ever heard about how artists can write songs for an album and even record them, only to decide it's not what they want to do and start all over again?

Just because the album's title was Chinese Democracy in 1999 doesn't automatically mean the tracks that appear on the album are the same ones they wrote and have been recording since 1999.




/jarmo

[AxlRose4eva1]

And it's been delayed about 2 times a year, every year, since then.

 

And Use Your Illusion was delayed about ten years because the first songs were started on then.....?


Some people are obviously not playing attention. Have you ever heard about how artists can write songs for an album and even record them, only to decide it's not what they want to do and start all over again?

Just because the album's title was Chinese Democracy in 1999 doesn't automatically mean the tracks that appear on the album are the same ones they wrote and have been recording since 1999.




/jarmo

Wouldnt that have been a big waste?  If they recorded all that stuff, never released it and just scrapped an album or two worth of songs?

[Ganja4Life]

not if thats not what they wanted to release

[jarmo]

Wouldnt that have been a big waste?  If they recorded all that stuff, never released it and just scrapped an album or two worth of songs?

No?


Did you see the latest Def Leppard thing where the singer says they'll write three songs that would be played on the radio and fill the rest of the album with something that's not as good?

Just because it doesn't matter how good the rest is since it won't get played on the radio anyway and nobody cares...... 



/jarmo

[SterileEyes]

 

And Use Your Illusion was delayed about ten years because the first songs were started on then..... 

There's a controversial claim right there...

I.R.S., The Blues and Madagascar as far as I know are confirmed album tracks that have been around since at least 2000...dunno about the rest of the album though obviously. Wasn't the TWAT leak supposedly from '99 or '01?

Regarding it being 'a waste' to record songs and then not use them, I agree with your Def Leppard analogy and I think their attitude about making albums totally stinks...however, 'Catcher In The Rye' and squandering Brian May's solo (which he travelled across continents to record as a kind gesture to Axl) is, in my opinion, a true waste and almost criminal if it doesn't make the record. Ok, maybe not criminal, but you get the point.

[AxlRose4eva1]

Wouldnt that have been a big waste?? If they recorded all that stuff, never released it and just scrapped an album or two worth of songs?

No?


Did you see the latest Def Leppard thing where the singer says they'll write three songs that would be played on the radio and fill the rest of the album with something that's not as good?

Just because it doesn't matter how good the rest is since it won't get played on the radio anyway and nobody cares......?



/jarmo

So you dont think the stuff that they wrote during that period was strong and thats the reason for the delay?   Are you referring to any of the live stuff from the first tour?  Cause songs like The Blues, I think are amazing and would like to hear them finished and on the album.

[Demon Wolf]

I agree with mr Jarmo here. Why release something half-arsed? If it ain't good enough, why release it just to meet a certain date? Why not just hold onto it a bit longer until it can be released, knowing that no musical sacrifices had to be made in order to get it done.

And don't give me the "but it's taken 15 years, thirty-six monkeys, Buckethead, and an emo Finck to finish it!" When it's done, it's done and only Axl knows the reason why we've waited for so long.

[novemberparadise23]

yea i agree with jarmo and demon if your not entirly happy with the product dont release it at that point in time

[jarmo]

So you dont think the stuff that they wrote during that period was strong and thats the reason for the delay?   

No, that's not what I'm saying

I'm saying that it's possible that they haven't been working on the same songs, that eventually are on the released album, since 1999.

So by saying this album has taken 15 years, you're assuming they've only worked on the songs that appear on the released album.


It's also possible that the band, due to various reason, decided to try other things over the years. Maybe there was an almost finished album at one point, but then they felt that it wasn't what they wanteed and started over again or decided to do more work on it because a new member joined etc etc.



/jarmo

[Verasa]

I remember when the Jeff Leeds story came out in Mar 05' very little talk was going on about GnR, I think maybe the publishing deal went down a month before but, I really thought either this year or next and it was comin. Year later we get the leaks and shows, promises that the record will come by the end of the year. after the 2002 debacle it was really do or die for them last year IMO and axl IMO dragged his feet. maybe he is working hard and he really wants to put out a great record but the way he conducts himself and puts himself through all this unnecesary stress of making a perfect record nonsense is just that nonsense

Why does CD have to be so great when you plan on releasing more after it? The answer always comes back to the fans and why they wait or why they care or to live our lives ?I live my life and I listen to lots of other music besides gnr but why? seriously, what the fuck is taking so long? ?not touch ups, not mixing, not last minute recordings, not del james Good news/bad news, don't blame merck, what the hell is going on? I don't wanna be banned and I'm not tryin to start shit..just venting...I digress

[Naupis]

Why does CD have to be so great when you plan on releasing more after it?

If CD is not great that will be the end of the band. Axl knows that, and it is why he has worked for so long to make sure that he blows his load with CD, because there will be no do-over if it isn't right the first time.

[daviebuckethead]

I have no idea how having no album out affects ticket sales. I mean most fans are going to guns n roses to hear the classics anyways .. on top of that , the band plays 6 or more songs from democracy at almost every show.

Bleh!

If it was called the Chinese Democracy Tour.

Hello? They could've called it the "Escape From The Studio - part two" tour and people would've bought tickets based on the fact that it's GN'R.

It's not like GN'R is the only band touring before their new album is in the shops.

Metallica seems to do it every summer.




/jarmo

Bud doesn't Metallica actually release albums??

Sorry, easy come back.? But I think here Jarmo you and I are starting to disagree on certain matters.? Your first analogy of working on something only for it not to be done at a desired date/time due to the obstacles put forth by others doesn't quite mesh well with this situation.? First and foremost, Axl's letter stated that there were minor complications left to be finished.? Perhaps it's a difference of perception, but recording or re-recording is not a minor complication.? When you go back to recording, that now takes you back to square one with mixing and mastering.? Axl acknowledges that it takes 8 weeks once an album is finished for it to receive a proper launch.? I can't see how it's anyone other than Axl or the band's fault for not getting this thing out close to March 6th if another month or two of recording was still required back in mid December (exceptions are given if legal or contractual negotiations were the main culprit, thus giving the band further time to record).? I'll believe Axl thought March 6th was plausible at the time he wrote his letter if he assumed that all recording and mixing (or mixing of possible singles) was to be completed by the first week of January.? If he knew that recording was still needed well into February, then Axl's letter is rendered fraudulent.? And to suggest that studio scheduling conflicts resulted in unexpected delays is reaching a tad.? Between New York City and LA, there are numerous studios the band could have used.? If you own a reputable studio and Axl asks to rent it out to put the finishing touches on one of the most anticipated albums in the last thirty years, are you really going to tell him to get in line and wait his turn?

I'm also getting a little sick of the damned if he do, damned if he don't excuse:

On one hand we'd have those who'd take the date as set in stone and would attack him if it didn't come out on the 6th.

If he didn't say anything, we would've had people complaining about how he can't give updates.

Here's how the band can actually gain overall fan approval: say something and actually do it.? Now a lot of people on here have dissected Axl's letter like crazy, saying he said this, he didn't say this.? Alright, fine.? But let's look at the facts.? There's now been three "Chinese Democracy World Tours" and soon a forth for an album that is still not finished and has no firm release date.? ?There have been countless instances of insinuation or direct claims about the pending release of Chinese Democracy from way back in 2001 from Axl to other band members to management.? To suggest that GNR's fan base hasn't been strung along for quite some time is without merit.? Then finally Axl gives his fans a real communication in the form of his open letter.? Some chose not to believe it from the get go, others were skeptical, and other's put their faith in Axl's words and believed despite many years of disappointment.? I was skeptical, but it was great to hear Axl at least acknowledge the album and that every effort was going to be made to get this thing out as soon as possible.? Sure we could have damned him for not giving a tentative release date just as many are damning him now for not meeting it.? But in the end, he did give a release date and it seems like we're still at the very least three months away from a plausible release date.? Having recently been exposed to the recording process and the music industry myself, I know that minor complications do not push an album's release date back by three to four months.? If you're going to live by the sword, you die by the sword.? You can't excuse yourself by saying "we can't win either way" for something that was instigated by yourself.

In the end, it's hard being a loyal fan of a group, team, or organization when, in your mind, they keep fucking you over.? As a Maple Leafs fan, I know that better than anyone.? All that said, as much grumble and crying exists here today and will continue until the album is finally out, I will never doubt the love for the band and our braid-headed hero by anyone here.? If everyone here hated the band so much, they wouldn't keep coming back and would have given up on the band a long time ago.? Like it or not Jarmo, you're providing a service that's very valuable to the band itself.? Bitching, whinning and overall complaining has served for many (and myself) as a release outlet that has allowed many of us to stay on this wild ride.? One wonders if the hardcore of us would still remain so loyal without the internet and its mechanisms for open dialogue.?

The band, this site, and certain individuals associate with the band have done some great things for us fans (most notably, the pre-sales for the New York warm up shows).? It would be unfortunate that we do not acknowledge the great things that this band has done for us.? Even though I'm not listening to Chinese Democracy today, that doesn't mean I won't be waiting at opening hours to get my hands on a copy (well, I'll probably be buying more than one).? As I write this I look up at my wall and see seven sealed Guns N' Roses LPs, two Use your Illusion Posters, and one RIAA Gold Album Award for Appetite.? I then look over to my three keyboard/synths/pianos and remember that if it was for Axl Rose sitting down and writing November Rain, my life would be very different.? So yeah I'm disappointed at Axl and the band for not living up to what they were trying to do because I too, along with many here, have a lot invested in Chinese Democracy.? But at the end of the day, I don't forget that I'm indebted to this band and will always support all efforts made by this band.

Cheers,

Andrew

dude, i didnt even read all that, but i cant fucking wait ot see what jarmo replies!