Do you believe in god? Why?

[Will]

America is a great proof of Christiantiy, in my opinion.  The constitution and the founders of our country all believed in the Christian way of life, and the ideals it taught us.   And coincidently, we've reaped incredible success: hard work, public education, compassion, self dependence, etc. the list goes on.  This is all straight from the Bible, and it works.  Compare this to Islam, which breeds a culture of backwardsness and impedes progress.

Wow...
"Public education"?? For who? Not all over the country...public education is so poor in the South it's really worrying. "Compassion"? For the rich? Yeah, the poor can die. "Don't have enough money to pay your medicine or hospital bills? Sorry buddy, you're gonna have to die!" Free (or almost free) healthcare for all would be a first step. I'm sorry from where I live, I don't see an "incredible success".

Islam was actually a progressive religion a couple of thousand years ago...unfortunately lots of bad things happened in the last century, and because 19 fundamentalist muslims crashed in the WTC in 2001, Islam is now seen as a bad/evil religion. It's just a culture/religion we don't understand.

I don't believe in God; I was raised in an atheist family, I maybe went 3 times in my life to church (besides visiting like Notre Dame, Sacre Coeur and stuff) -- not because my parents didn't want me to, just because I think that's very boring and I don't relate to anything they're saying. I hate when I got to church after someone has passed away and the preacher praise God the Almighty. Yeah right, if he's so good, why did he take my friend/ family member? Sorry I don't believe in that God. I believe in other things, I just don't believe in God, the way it's generally described/believed.


Edit: I re-read the first part of my post and it might seem aggressive. It's not, I'm just in "shock & awe" ( )when I read things like that, which are so far from the truth in the region of the country I live in (and probably in other parts too).

A few weeks ago, two young guys were shot in the small city (20k) I live in. When interviewed by the paper, people said it's because young people don't go to church anymore, they play video games and watch violent movies. I don't go to church, I love video games, Scarface, Gladiator, Heat, etc. but I don't go on the streets killing people. Come on.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

I don't believe in God; I was raised in an atheist family, I maybe went 3 times in my life to church (besides visiting like Notre Dame, Sacre Coeur and stuff) -- not because my parents didn't want me to, just because I think that's very boring and I don't relate to anything they're saying.

Will, you're French right?  I thought that most French people are strongly Roman Catholic - is that not true anymore?

As for America being a great proof of Christianity...sure..., but let's not forget that the Founding Fathers advocated separation of Church and State.  They didnt want to get too carried away with religious dogma.

All religions have had their share of breeding 'backwardsness'.  Islam is being plagued by fanatics and madmen which is sad.    

Let's all take a moment to remember poor Galileo and how he was made to recant the Copernican theory of the earth going round the sun because of the Church...

?E pur si muove?   [nevertheless it (the Earth) does move].  -- Galileo

[Will]

Will, you're French right?  I thought that most French people are strongly Roman Catholic - is that not true anymore?

Especially in the region I come from (Brittany)... But I think it's generally still true in France, lots of people don't go to church though.
I don't know, my parents both had a religious education and both didn't like it so they chose to let the children choose if we wanted to go to church or not. I chose not to!

[GnRNightrain]

Islam was actually a progressive religion a couple of thousand years ago...unfortunately lots of bad things happened in the last century, and because 19 fundamentalist muslims crashed in the WTC in 2001, Islam is now seen as a bad/evil religion.
It's just a culture/religion we don't understand.

Im sorry but terrorism and Islam is not limited to the 19 that crashed into the WTC.

Islamic extremism exists in huge numbers.  Sure not all of Muslims are extreme, but but if there are over a billion muslims in the world and .001 of 1 billion are extremists then that is still 1 million islamic extremists.  And yes these people are evil.  It may be a culture that we dont understand, but I personally dont want to understand the Islamic extremists.  They want to take over the world, strap bombs to kids, give women no rights, and eradicate christians and Jews, and take over all countries that have Islamic ties.  I understand that they are evil, and that is enough for me.  I know, evil is relative right?  Fuck moral relativism, Im a moral absolutist when it comes to certain things such as life and freedom.

[chineseilusions]

Ok how about this.

In the bible I think there is a phrase, in the 10 commendments?

"Thou shalt not kill"

If this is a direct "order" from the god, do you think that people who have broken this, (killed other people) are forgiven this sin and have been given access to heaven?

Well, you have to read the whole Bible.  According to the new testament, God will forgive us for every single sin, regardless of how great or devastating.   If we simply ask for forgiveness, we will be given it, it's that simple.  He knows we're imperfect.

It's also important to note what is meant by "Do not kill" - it means do not murder, ie, illegally kill someone. The other parts of the Bible not shown    here clearly illuminate that killing in a just war, or self-defense, etc is not a violation of God's law.

The church I attended (Church of Christ)tought me that was incorrect. I believe in the book of John it says that God does not hear the prayers of sinners by this it means people that have not been baptised,so therefore if you are not baptised how can God hear your plea for forgivness?This is just based on what I have been tought and believe in.

[Dizzy]

People believe in God because they need a crutch to lean on.  And I don't mean that in a derogatory manner, because we all "need somebody to lean on" as the song goes.  Agnostics (such as myself) and atheists need crutches too, some of us use music (like I do), some of us have family and friends.  You get the point, we all need something to rely upon when we are emotionally brittle.

Many people need to believe in God to make it through the day, and many people need to believe they are going to a place called Heaven in order to sleep at night.  Though I don't believe in God, their beliefs are fine with me.  I have no problem with anyone else's beliefs as long as they do not attempt to impose those beliefs on me in any way-- even if they are trying to do so for my "own good".

[GnRNightrain]

People believe in God because they need a crutch to lean on.  And I don't mean that in a derogatory manner, because we all "need somebody to lean on" as the song goes.  Agnostics (such as myself) and atheists need crutches too, some of us use music (like I do), some of us have family and friends.  You get the point, we all need something to rely upon when we are emotionally brittle.

Well that may be true for some, but thats not why I believe in God, so I can sleep at night.  

[Dizzy]

Well that may be true for some, but thats not why I believe in God, so I can sleep at night.  

I didn't mean that in a literal sense, perhaps I should've been more specific and added a bit to it.  I meant that people believe in God because it gives them a sense of fulfillment.  People need something to fill the void.  "God" does it for them.  And as I said, that's fine with me.

And when I say "people", I'm referring to adults really, not children, because children have the natural tendency to believe whatever they're told.  But as you get older, anything you believe in is based on a "need" in one form or another.

John Adams wrote:  ?The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.?

And that's absolutely true.  Our national motto "One nation under God" does not in any way state "One nation under Jesus".  Christians like to believe our government was founded on Christian ideology.  See, a Christian will point to laws against murder, rape, stealing, etc, and say that based on those, our government is based on Christian principles.

The reality is, there are actually very few of our laws which coincide with Christian principles.  But ignoring that fact for a moment, let me pose these questions.....

If our laws were founded on the principles of Christianity...

Why is taking the lord's name in vain not a crime?
Why is it not a crime to work on the Sabbath day?  (the bible states that he who does this shall be killed!)
Why is it not a crime to engage in premarital sex?
Why is it not a crime to commit adultery?
Why is divorce legal?
Why is it not a crime to marry someone who has been divorced?

(For the record, the bible clearly states that marrying someone who has been divorced is committing adultery, and marrying someone after you've been divorced yourself is also committing adultery.)

Why is it not a crime to have another god before "Him"?
Why is it not a crime to bear false idols?
Why is it not a crime to not respect your mother and father?
Why it it not a crime to blaspheme?
Why is it not a crime to covet thy neighbor's wife, his house, or his ass?

And most importantly...

Does anyone honestly believe that murder would not be a crime were it not for Christianity?  Do you think that I wouldn't know better than to kill someone if Christianity were not there to teach me that?

I say bollocks, the human race is indeed intuitive enough to know why it isn't good to kill, rape, and steal.  They are basic principles of humanity, and they feasibly existed long before the bible was written.  Just because some of our laws happen to coincide with Christianity does not make America a nation founded upon Christian principles.  If it were, none of us would enjoy the freedom we do.  And I don't even need to explain that; just look at any nation in the world governed by a religion, you have suicide bombings, excessive religious fanaticism, extreme oppression, and overall mass chaos.  And you're fooling yourself if you believe the U.S. would be any different if it were governed by Christianity.  Saying that America is in even remotely good shape because of Christianity is ludicrous, because the exact opposite is true.  We're a mostly civil nation because we weren't founded on the principles of any organized religion, rather on the humanist foundation of a democracy.  Christianity gets a good name because of our democracy, not vice versa.  It's the adament separation of church and state which set us apart from all third world countries ravaged by religion.

[SLCPUNK]

Christianity gets a good name because of our democracy, not vice versa.  It's the adament separation of church and state which set us apart from all third world countries ravaged by religion.

 Yes.  If fundamentalist Christians had their way they would impose their moral laws on the people.  Thus taking away from a true democracy.

Look at cultures run by religion. Hell, even the Mormon culture is oppresive towards their women. The non Mormons in my state HATE the Mormons because they actually run the state and pass laws that are entirely based on their religious beliefs. That is not democracy. That is religion running the state. They may have one token non-Mormon on certain boards to say it's fair. But anybody with a brain understands what goes on here.

****


Let me point something out here.  The USA is a young country.  We have countless people who honestly believe that it was founded on Christianity.  I hear people on TV all the time that say this.  If people can come to believe this as the truth in such a short time (as a country forgetting what we were founded on), how can we not believe that the meaning of the bible has been twisted around as well?  How long has it been subject to man's views and agendas?  How much has the message of Jesus Christ been twisted around over 2k years?  That is why I don't care for organized religion.

[Dizzy]

Loretian,

You know, I disagree with every single thing you stated in your post.  I could provide evidence that refutes every single "fact" you presented in your post.  But since you're only stating what you believe, and obviously there's nothing that will change your beliefs, I was going to leave it alone.  That is, until you tacked on this statement.....

A lot of people look at the question of the existance of God or some greater purpose as an unanswerable rhetorical one, but I say otherwise.  You need to ask questions, and work to find answers, and be willing to accept some harsh truths about life, and yourself

You advise others to ask questions, but it seems you're not asking any questions yourself.  Seems you have all the answers already, you've made up your mind as to what's "true" since you obviously consider the entity known as Christianity to be the "truth".  What harsh truths about life do you accept?  Are you asking any questions yourself?  If so, what questions?  Do you ask yourself if what you believe in could be either partially or entirely untrue?  If you're not asking that, you're not really asking questions.  And your sentiments certainly imply that you're definitely not asking that question.

And you insinuate that Christianity holds all the answers, yet you still state the others need to ask questions.  What for?  You've given them the answers by advocating Christianity, so do you really believe that they need to go on asking?

Many people don't like the answers that Christianity provides: that they cannot save themselves, and they are at heart, evil, and flawed, and the only salvation comes from giving up, and letting someone greater save them.

You're right, I don't like those answers.  Not because I am in "denial", but because I find the logic in them to be flawed and oversimplified.  Believing in those answers is the easy way to explain things.  Human nature and behavior bears much more complicity than that.  I don't even need to explain that, just look around.  Observe, compare, and contrast the nature and behavior of people you know.  That of people you don't know.  That of people you see on TV.  That of people you see on the news.  People you consider good people.  People you consider bad people.  Yes, those of your ilk would like to believe that the one simple statement "We're all evil, only God can save us." can explain all those different types of individuals, their natures and their behaviors, but to the rational mind, it can't.

[loretian]

I think you need to read your history book. Our country was founded on "freedom of religion". The constitution does not define religion either. And it certainly does not define our religion as "Christian".

Actually, the "freedom of religion" thing is also straight out of the Bible.  You can't force anyone to be a Christian, they have to choose for themselves.  I think you might have misunderstood what I was getting at - I just meant the basic ideals of the country, not that the entire country is Christian or anything.

You should also be more respectful towards other religions. The bombers who blew up the building in OK were both devote Christians. And there are screwball mormons in S. Utah and N. AZ who call themselves christians as well. There are many many flawed groups that claim to be followers of Christ. Funny how you don't use them as examples? But then you will take a complete slam on Islam assuming the entire culture is defunct because of bad examples within that religion.

There is fucked up people from every religion and organization, but I specifically believe that many of the ideals and rules Islam has cause a backwards type of civilization.  Maybe I should have been more clear, but I'm not just "slamming" other religions, and I realize there has been plenty of fucked up things Christians have done.

My point is basically:  If you follow the Christian to a T, you breed success.  If you follow Islamic ideals to a T, you breed failure - and again, I'm talking in a societal sense, not necessarily for an individual person, and in the economic/technological sense, not really religious or life-after-death sense.

Your statement is flawed and hypocritical. Don't assume that one religion is the true way and slam others. And understand your history better. Your statement is why people do not like organized religion. And helps create a divide between our culture and others such as Islam.

I wasn't clear enough, and you're right, I should be more careful.  However, I don't believe all religions are equal, and I really think many things taught in the Quran are damaging to a society and it's growth.  Should I just pretend otherwise?

There are plenty of hardworking people that are Buddhist, athiest, agnostic, Jewish, Islamic etc etc. Christianity isn't the only foundation for hard work. Do you really think that hard work ethic is just from the bible only?

No, of course not.  Take the Quran, and develop a society from the rules and laws it teaches, and it won't include all those great things I listed about America, including your favorite, freedom of religion.

The American founders clearly documented their faith (or at least faith in the ideals, like Jefferson) and explained the theories behind their ideas.

If you're suggesting I read up on my history, then I suggest maybe you need to.  Not to be insulting, but this is pretty basic stuff about the foundation of America.

John Adams wrote:

?The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.?

I don't know too much about John Adams, but I'd like to see the context of that quote.  I mean, it's pretty clear, but I mean... if that's all he meant to say, then he was dead wrong.    I mean, it's been recorded all over the place that that's exactly the opposite of the truth, so... I don't even know what to make of that.

[loretian]

Wow...
"Public education"?? For who? Not all over the country...public education is so poor in the South it's really worrying.

Yeah, really, we have free education in the entire country.  I don't know too much specifically about the state of the south and public education, but I've always heard and understood that public education problems were more in the ghetto, not the south.   I have relatives that live in the south and I've never heard any complaints about the public education there.

"Compassion"? For the rich? Yeah, the poor can die. "Don't have enough money to pay your medicine or hospital bills? Sorry buddy, you're gonna have to die!" Free (or almost free) healthcare for all would be a first step. I'm sorry from where I live, I don't see an "incredible success".

Well, I know your viewpoints on this kind of stuff, so I don't think I'm gonna convince you of anything, but our intense competive economic nature has raised the general quality of health care.  Because people earn money from designing better health care, the technology evolves faster.  On hand one, you can look at any one instance, and say, "poor people don't get as good of health care", and it's true, but if you look at the whole evolution of health care, poor people are actually getting better health care than they would have if it was free, because the health care wouldn't have evolved or improved as fast.

There are some people in the industry that do it just to be compassionate and not motivated by money, but most of them are not the ones designing the technology, or if they are, they're still driven by the financial rewards.

Islam was actually a progressive religion a couple of thousand years ago...unfortunately lots of bad things happened in the last century, and because 19 fundamentalist muslims crashed in the WTC in 2001, Islam is now seen as a bad/evil religion. It's just a culture/religion we don't understand.

I agree that most people don't understand Islam, but it's not an open religion.  Growing up, we had many international students living in our house, and I learned a lot.  I'm not saying there aren't good things or decent ideals in Islam; my best friend in high school was Islamic; but overall, the philosophy it teaches is greatly flawed.   I think it's folly to just say "all religions are equal", just to be nice or "fair" or something.  Just like all ideas, some are good, some are bad.

Edit: I re-read the first part of my post and it might seem aggressive. It's not, I'm just in "shock & awe" ( )when I read things like that, which are so far from the truth in the region of the country I live in (and probably in other parts too).

No offense to you or any Mississippians, but my (highly uneducated) knowledge of the state is that it's one of the worst economically, I don't think most of the South is like that.

[loretian]

You advise others to ask questions, but it seems you're not asking any questions yourself.  Seems you have all the answers already, you've made up your mind as to what's "true" since you obviously consider the entity known as Christianity to be the "truth".  What harsh truths about life do you accept?  Are you asking any questions yourself?  If so, what questions?  Do you ask yourself if what you believe in could be either partially or entirely untrue?  If you're not asking that, you're not really asking questions.  And your sentiments certainly imply that you're definitely not asking that question.

I'm always asking questions.  I realize that the fact that I'm so confident in my beliefs might seem otherwise, but it's because of my asking questions, and often, uncertainties in life that I've become so confident.  There is no doubt in my mind.  I'm not perfect, but I try to approach new things with an open mind, and I try to only speak definitively on things I know about, or have witnessed firsthand, and feel I have adequate experience to really say.

I haven't brought up Judiasm, because I do know some basics about it and know some facts that make me outright reject it, but unlike Islam, I haven't met many Jewish people or really know that much.

And you insinuate that Christianity holds all the answers, yet you still state the others need to ask questions.  What for?  You've given them the answers by advocating Christianity, so do you really believe that they need to go on asking?

Yes, of course.  I don't hold any answers, I could be totally wrong.  What I suggest to people is that if they aren't sure, or haven't made up their mind, then keep looking, and don't reject Christianity on some the false premises that are out there (Christians just want to impose their beliefs on others, etc).  Investigate, decide for yourself.  Of course a lot of people are still going to reject it.

Specifically, I suggest the idea of investigating religion from a intellectual standpoint, reviewing the histories, as well as the implications of the philosophies.  Those philosophies should be read first hand from the originating source, not secondhand from some flunkie who hates the concept to begin with, or from some overzealous person that would twist the concepts it contains to their own means.

You're right, I don't like those answers.  Not because I am in "denial", but because I find the logic in them to be flawed and oversimplified.

They are oversimplified, and purposely so - I still think they're true, but I find that a lot of people misunderstand many of the basic concepts of Christianity, and my messages are already long enough, if I tried to break down everything, I don't think the message board would accept my posts.  

Believing in those answers is the easy way to explain things.  Human nature and behavior bears much more complicity than that.  I don't even need to explain that, just look around.  Observe, compare, and contrast the nature and behavior of people you know.  That of people you don't know.  That of people you see on TV.  That of people you see on the news.  People you consider good people.  People you consider bad people.  Yes, those of your ilk would like to believe that the one simple statement "We're all evil, only God can save us." can explain all those different types of individuals, their natures and their behaviors, but to the rational mind, it can't.

No, that simple statement does not explain the actions of any one single person, or the history of the earth.  But, it does explain the basic idea behind Christianity, which is all I was trying to do, because I find that many people don't know it, or seem to forget it often.

If you're not already sick of reading my posts on this kind of stuff, or are just wondering, I'd be happy to share how I believe the above "oversimplified" statement relates to the complexity of real life.

[SLCPUNK]

If you're suggesting I read up on my history, then I suggest maybe you need to.  Not to be insulting, but this is pretty basic stuff about the foundation of America.

You should read what I wrote. I wrote in reference to this being a Christian nation. Not anything else. You are either not reading, or trying to twist it around.

My point is basically:  If you follow the Christian to a T, you breed success.  If you follow Islamic ideals to a T, you breed failure - and again, I'm talking in a societal sense, not necessarily for an individual person, and in the economic/technological sense, not really religious or life-after-death sense.

That is great. But people don't follow it to a T. And that has little to do with the topic. You painted some broad strokes and I was reeling you in a bit. But then you turn around and make it a different arguement.

I don't know too much about John Adams, but I'd like to see the context of that quote.  I mean, it's pretty clear, but I mean... if that's all he meant to say, then he was dead wrong.    I mean, it's been recorded all over the place that that's exactly the opposite of the truth, so... I don't even know what to make of that.

OK, so let me get this right. You are saying that what one of your first presidents ever said was dead wrong?  The early presidents were generally Deists or Unitarians, who rejected the testaments.

Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." --


James Madison
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

(And my favorite........)

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

[Gunner80]

Yes, but a God that created life and said go. Not a God that's up above worrying about whether or not someone's good or bad.  

[D]

ok im not sticking around in this thread


GOD exists

i feel GOD in my everyday life

i know everything happens for a reason

i dont know or could describe how i know

but its something i feel inside

i know he is real


now some people in myopinion go way overboard with it

like athletes

"GOD allowed me to win tonight" he helped me score that touchdown

thats is crap,

i hate when athletes give GOD human characteristics like he is up in heaven rooting for  a particular team

also people overdo the miracle thing

my 10 year old boy was cured of cancer GOD healed my child

i dont believe in those types of miracles

cause what about the thousands of kids that die from cancer, did GOD not love them?

so i think we are in more control of things and GOD just sort of watches and intervenes here and there but ultimately our life and our decisions are based upon us

some things though have made me believe in GOD and destiny

i may discuss some of the stuff later

[GnRNightrain]

Christianity gets a good name because of our democracy, not vice versa.  It's the adament separation of church and state which set us apart from all third world countries ravaged by religion.

 Yes.  If fundamentalist Christians had their way they would impose their moral laws on the people.  Thus taking away from a true democracy.

Look at cultures run by religion. Hell, even the Mormon culture is oppresive towards their women. The non Mormons in my state HATE the Mormons because they actually run the state and pass laws that are entirely based on their religious beliefs. That is not democracy. That is religion running the state. They may have one token non-Mormon on certain boards to say it's fair. But anybody with a brain understands what goes on here.

How do you define democracy?  Democracy is the will of the people.  Usually majority rule.  Therefore, if they can pass the law by being in the majority how it that non-democratic?

[D]

50 percent of people who act like they dont believe in GOD i dont take seriously or all together believe

i think some people do it to try and look cool or like an outlaw

some of u people on this board better hope that u are right, cause if there is a GOD have mercy on your souls

i dont know how anyone can say there isnt a GOD

maybe its fear instilled in me since i was a child but i would be scared to death to blashpheme like some of u have on here


but im not debating a huge holy war cause i cant explain GOD's presence i feel inside, all i know is he is has helped me thru the dark times and he has blessed me with so much and so many talents that i have the highest praise for GOD and Jesus Christ


even if u dont believe in Jesus u can still learn from him because of the great man he was

when a man is being crucified, if he can forgive those doing that to him, then i can forgive some girl or some friend for hurting me

i dont want anyone quoting my beliefs and trying to like counterpoint and tell me im stupid or try to make me see otherwise, i believe and nothing could ever change my mind or make me beileve otherwise

[GnRNightrain]

[

Specifically, I suggest the idea of investigating religion from a intellectual standpoint, reviewing the histories, as well as the implications of the philosophies.  Those philosophies should be read first hand from the originating source, not secondhand from some flunkie who hates the concept to begin with, or from some overzealous person that would twist the concepts it contains to their own means.

Very good point.  

[GnRNightrain]

If you're suggesting I read up on my history, then I suggest maybe you need to.  Not to be insulting, but this is pretty basic stuff about the foundation of America.

You should read what I wrote. I wrote in reference to this being a Christian nation. Not anything else. You are either not reading, or trying to twist it around.

My point is basically:  If you follow the Christian to a T, you breed success.  If you follow Islamic ideals to a T, you breed failure - and again, I'm talking in a societal sense, not necessarily for an individual person, and in the economic/technological sense, not really religious or life-after-death sense.

That is great. But people don't follow it to a T. And that has little to do with the topic. You painted some broad strokes and I was reeling you in a bit. But then you turn around and make it a different arguement.

I don't know too much about John Adams, but I'd like to see the context of that quote.  I mean, it's pretty clear, but I mean... if that's all he meant to say, then he was dead wrong.    I mean, it's been recorded all over the place that that's exactly the opposite of the truth, so... I don't even know what to make of that.

OK, so let me get this right. You are saying that what one of your first presidents ever said was dead wrong?  The early presidents were generally Deists or Unitarians, who rejected the testaments.

Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." --


James Madison
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

(And my favorite........)

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."

I think Loretian is right.  Our country was found on religious ideals whether you like it or not.  In fact the declaration of independenc itself is based on the idea that we have certain natural rights given by GOD that cant be taken away by any government.  "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.  Among these rights are the rights to life liberty and the pursuit of hapiness."  Is there anything more stating what our nation was founded upon than the declaration of independence?  The idea of "separation of church and state" is nothing more than a quote from a letter that Jefferson wrote from France.  Anyway, how can one even quote Jefferson to tell us what the Constitution means?  He wasnt present at the constitutional convention, in fact he was over in France.  
Just as you can can quote few of the athiests, I can quote tons at that time who believed otherwise.  But besides the point, one of the things that the nation was doing was trying to encompass religious tolerance.  If you actually look at the history most states had ESTABLISHED RELIGIONS at the time of ratification.  It was seen as more of something up to the states.  But that doesnt mean that is was one of the primary things that influenced the drafters and ratifiers.  
In fact there are tons of references to GOD everywhere in our government from ceremmonies to even documents such as the declaration of independence.  If such things were not at the forefront of their thinking or unconstitutional then they wouldnt have been used by the first congresses etc.