(Insert number here) weeks left

[adnan]

I think it's only a matter of time till the album comes out. It's obvious that it has been finished, with a great producer (O Brien right?) and all that's left is single/album release plans and contract negotiations.

[pilferk]

Yeah, he said we'd know either way. And still we've heard nothing.

Which means there's nothing to hear, yet.

The date's not official.

And they're still, apparently, on track.

So what's the problem?

You're talking like if they haven't made the announcemnt of an official release date, they're not on track.  You're SPECULATING, based on....well....nothing concrete...that we should have heard by now.  That's just not the case.  It might be what you want, but it's not, necessarily, what needs to happen.

Axl didn't say that, upon turning in the album, we'd have an official confirmed release date immediately.  He just said when the date is official, they'll tell us.  He didn't say we'd get an official release date 8 weeks, to the day, before it's released.    He simply said we'd know either way.  He didn't say WHEN, exactly.

You're holding him to a timetable of your own creation, seemingly.  And then, when he misses your deadline, speculating that he's delaying the album.

[polluxlm]

You mean like the silence in November and December was reason to believe in a 06 release?

Silence in GN'R is never good. We should have learned that by now.

Silence from GnR, when they've already told us what they're going to do, isn't a bad thing.? It just isn't.

I would like to know what you base that assumption on. The silence following Axls June date in 2001? The silence following the tour schedule in 2001? The silence after 2002 when the album supposedly was close to being finished? The silence after his 04 statement about announcing a release date? The silence after the RS interview last year?

They're not going to hold our hands through the album submit and release process, telling us what's happening every step of the way, as it happens.? And to expect them to isn't realistic.

What you want is akin to asking them, while on tour, to confirm each tour date the morning it happens...when, in reality, the only time they're going to talk to "us" is when there is a CHANGE in the schedule/tour dates...a cancellation or delay.

When it's official, they'll tell us.? If there's a delay, they'll tell us.? Til we hear SOMETHING from them, there's simply no reason to expect things have changed...nothing other than idle, unfounded speculation.? And that's the fact of the matter.

No, that's not what I want smart ass. I expect them to announce the release date when official, and I expect them to announce any possible delay. Axl said 8 weeks, that ship sailed 2 weeks ago, so excuse me for being skeptic.

We were told it was no reason to expect things have changed when December rapidly approached us last year. Look how that went. You'll still believe in a March 6th date on February 28th?

[polluxlm]

Yeah, he said we'd know either way. And still we've heard nothing.

Which means there's nothing to hear, yet.

The date's not official.

And they're still, apparently, on track.

So what's the problem?

You're talking like if they haven't made the announcemnt of an official release date, they're not on track.? You're SPECULATING, based on....well....nothing concrete...that we should have heard by now.? That's just not the case.? It might be what you want, but it's not, necessarily, what needs to happen.

Axl didn't say that, upon turning in the album, we'd have an official confirmed release date immediately.? He just said when the date is official, they'll tell us.? He didn't say we'd get an official release date 8 weeks, to the day, before it's released.? ? He simply said we'd know either way.? He didn't say WHEN, exactly.

You're holding him to a timetable of your own creation, seemingly.? And then, when he misses your deadline, speculating that he's delaying the album.

Of course I'm speculating, we all do. And part of my speculation, based on history, logic and statements is that pretty soon after the label has the album in their hands we'll hear about it. Mostly because it's in everybodys interest to regain momentum as soon as possible. I'm not saying they can't still be on track, but given the history with this band I say things are pointing towards a delay.

[pilferk]

I would like to know what you base that assumption on. The silence following Axls June date in 2001?

When did Axl say there was anything happening at that time?

 

The silence following the tour schedule in 2001?

When did Axl say there was anything happening at that time?

The silence after 2002 when the album supposedly was close to being finished?

When did Axl say there was anything happening at that time?  And the album was closed to finished according to who?

 The silence after his 04 statement about announcing a release date?

Accompanied by....what specific information?  That they hoped to announce a release date "soon"?  Not very specific, was it? Nor was there remotely the type of language and assurances contained in his recent open letter

 

The silence after the RS interview last year?

Silence? He went on tour.  And then....prior to the end of the year, commented and told us all what happened.  That's not silence.  It might not be frequent communication (you seem to want hand holding, which you're not going to get) but it's not silence either.

No, that's not what I want smart ass.

It's what you're asking for, so it must be what you want.

I expect them to announce the release date when official, and I expect them to announce any possible delay.

And what makes you think they haven't done what they promised?

 

Axl said 8 weeks, that ship sailed 2 weeks ago, so excuse me for being skeptic.

Axl said APPROXIMATELY 8 weeks from turn over til release.  Why do you think the album is not yet turned over?  Why do you think any deadline has been missed? Speculation.  He did not say they would release the album drop date 2 weeks ago.....and from what we've seen of his movements around the country, it's pretty obvious he was doing exactly what he outlined needed to be done, when it needed to be done.  So what's the problem?

We were told it was no reason to expect things have changed when December rapidly approached us last year. Look how that went. You'll still believe in a March 6th date on February 28th?

Now who's being the smart ass?

We were "told" by who?  Not Axl.  Not the band.  And when things changed...hey...look...Axl told us they changed.  Again, you're not going to get daily updates.

And no, on Feb 28th, if we haven't heard anything, I won't think that March 6th is the release date.  But on January 25th, we're a long way off from that.

[pilferk]

Of course I'm speculating, we all do. And part of my speculation, based on history, logic and statements is that pretty soon after the label has the album in their hands we'll hear about it. Mostly because it's in everybodys interest to regain momentum as soon as possible. I'm not saying they can't still be on track, but given the history with this band I say things are pointing towards a delay.

Right...idle speculation based on nothing but your assumptions.  That's what I said.

You're assuming that "pretty soon" (your definition thereof) after the album is turned over they'll announce a release date.  It's not a bad assumption, but your definition of "pretty soon" (it's been a week or 2) is too drastic.  At 4 weeks, I'd start to wonder, but not at 1 or 2.  There's a lot of planning and logistics that goes into release of an album....they need a bit of time to pull the trigger to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed.  And, especially with this album, the label is not going to pull the trigger until they are absolutetly certain everything is gonna happen.  Too risky.

WHAT WE KNOW is not pointing at a delay.  WHAT WE KNOW points to them being on schedule.  WHAT YOU THINK doesn't...and that's the crux of the matter right there.

[Bartlet]

Polluxim, as far as the fact we have heard nothing yet is concerned, i can only say what everyone else has been saying...NEGOTIATIONS!

As for every other point you raise, they have already been dealt with by the far-more-articulate-than-me Pilferk.

I just thought i'd back him up.

[pilferk]

Polluxim, as far as the fact we have heard nothing yet is concerned, i can only say what everyone else has been saying...NEGOTIATIONS!

I suspect the negotiations part, if, indeed, he is back in LA, are wrapped up.  I'd bet that's why he was in NYC (where his management has historically been based) last week.  True, that's speculation.....and I'll take the hit for that..and it's unfounded speculation, to boot.  But given the time table he laid out, it sorta makes sense.

[SterileEyes]

All of this arguing about 'March 6th' makes me chuckle and shake my head at the same time.

'No concrete evidence' that it's not coming out March 6th, someone said.

Mmmmk, how about, there's no single and March 6th is less than 6 weeks away? There's some concrete evidence right there.

I don't mean to be a Negative Nancy but it's pretty obvious by now.

They're buying time. They won't tell us March 6th isn't happening for at least a couple more weeks.

They said "13 Tuesdays" and didn't get to us until there were 2 Tuesdays left, their excuse was they wanted to be 'sure' of a 'tentative' release date...whatever that means.

So yeah, I'm not trying to be too terribly sarcastic or negative, but March 6th isn't happening kids. I'm amazed people are even debating that.

P.S. Speculating about what cities Axl has been in the last couple of weeks is just...creepy in my opinion...especially when people think that knowing what city he's in will help them make better guesses about the album's status. I don't have a point or anything, just, someone had to say something 

[polluxlm]

I would like to know what you base that assumption on. The silence following Axls June date in 2001?

When did Axl say there was anything happening at that time?

January 2001

DJ: When is it gonna be the new album? Is it possible that we're gonna have a new record from Guns N' Roses?

Axl: Yes, I've heard. Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter.


 

The silence following the tour schedule in 2001?

When did Axl say there was anything happening at that time?

A tour was happening. One would think there should be some sort of statement following that. It never came, neither did the tour.

The silence after 2002 when the album supposedly was close to being finished?

When did Axl say there was anything happening at that time?? And the album was closed to finished according to who?

Axl and Dizzy that I can think of at the top of my head. The statements about the album from that time is ambigious, I agree, but there can be no doubt that they were in the process of a comeback. We heard nothing, nothing happened.

 The silence after his 04 statement about announcing a release date?

Accompanied by....what specific information?? That they hoped to announce a release date "soon"?? Not very specific, was it? Nor was there remotely the type of language and assurances contained in his recent open letter

No, very unspecific. That didn't hold people from being sure that a release was imminent.

 

The silence after the RS interview last year?

Silence? He went on tour.? And then....prior to the end of the year, commented and told us all what happened.? That's not silence.? It might not be frequent communication (you seem to want hand holding, which you're not going to get) but it's not silence either.

Yeah, he went on tour, but refrained from even mentioning the album. Now we know why.

No, that's not what I want smart ass.

It's what you're asking for, so it must be what you want.

No, it's what you want to think I'm asking for. Difference.

I expect them to announce the release date when official, and I expect them to announce any possible delay.

And what makes you think they haven't done what they promised?

Because they haven't And no, I'm not claiming that as fact.

Axl said 8 weeks, that ship sailed 2 weeks ago, so excuse me for being skeptic.

Axl said APPROXIMATELY 8 weeks from turn over til release.? Why do you think the album is not yet turned over?? Why do you think any deadline has been missed? Speculation.? He did not say they would release the album drop date 2 weeks ago.....and from what we've seen of his movements around the country, it's pretty obvious he was doing exactly what he outlined needed to be done, when it needed to be done.? So what's the problem?

If you want me to only use steel hard fact in my arguments I suggest we should both get the fuck out of this discussion, so please.

It indicates he might have done what was outlined. Being in the studio and actually doing something there are different things.

We were told it was no reason to expect things have changed when December rapidly approached us last year. Look how that went. You'll still believe in a March 6th date on February 28th?

Now who's being the smart ass?

It wasn't me who said I'd believe in March 6th until GN'R stated otherwise.

We were "told" by who?? Not Axl.? Not the band.? And when things changed...hey...look...Axl told us they changed.? Again, you're not going to get daily updates.

He told us 5 days before last possible deadline. Telling us about a delay on March 1st isn't what I'd label notification as soon as possible.

[pilferk]

All of this arguing about 'March 6th' makes me chuckle and shake my head at the same time.

'No concrete evidence' that it's not coming out March 6th, someone said.

Mmmmk, how about, there's no single and March 6th is less than 6 weeks away? There's some concrete evidence right there.

I don't mean to be a Negative Nancy but it's pretty obvious by now.

They're buying time. They won't tell us March 6th isn't happening for at least a couple more weeks.

They said "13 Tuesdays" and didn't get to us until there were 2 Tuesdays left, their excuse was they wanted to be 'sure' of a 'tentative' release date...whatever that means.

So yeah, I'm not trying to be too terribly sarcastic or negative, but March 6th isn't happening kids. I'm amazed people are even debating that.

Then prove it.

[SterileEyes]

Reference line 3 of my post regarding the present lack of a single. Then read the section of the open letter where Axl says he and the band believe the album deserves 'proper promotion and setup'. There's your proof 

[polluxlm]

Of course I'm speculating, we all do. And part of my speculation, based on history, logic and statements is that pretty soon after the label has the album in their hands we'll hear about it. Mostly because it's in everybodys interest to regain momentum as soon as possible. I'm not saying they can't still be on track, but given the history with this band I say things are pointing towards a delay.

Right...idle speculation based on nothing but your assumptions.? That's what I said.

You're assuming that "pretty soon" (your definition thereof) after the album is turned over they'll announce a release date.? It's not a bad assumption, but your definition of "pretty soon" (it's been a week or 2) is too drastic.? At 4 weeks, I'd start to wonder, but not at 1 or 2.

2 weeks, 4 weeks. Both are just as groundless. I'll agree it's not yet crisis mode, but I see the writing on the wall.

There's a lot of planning and logistics that goes into release of an album....they need a bit of time to pull the trigger to make sure all the i's are dotted and t's crossed.? And, especially with this album, the label is not going to pull the trigger until they are absolutetly certain everything is gonna happen.? Too risky.

Agreed, but it doesn't take more than for Axl or management to post a little note on the website telling us things have been finalized and that tracklist and release date will follow shortly. My experience with GN'R is that as soon as they have something to say, they say it. That's the main basis of my skepticism right there.

WHAT WE KNOW is not pointing at a delay.? WHAT WE KNOW points to them being on schedule.? WHAT YOU THINK doesn't...and that's the crux of the matter right there.

What we KNOW is that Axl gave us a tentative release date on December 14th 2006. That's it.

The RUMOURS indicate that he could be on schedule. But even that is speculation, at best.

[pilferk]

[
January 2001

DJ: When is it gonna be the new album? Is it possible that we're gonna have a new record from Guns N' Roses?

Axl: Yes, I've heard. Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter.

Pretty nonspecific, wishy washy, and certainly not close to what we got in the open letter.  I hope you're not comparing the two.

 

A tour was happening. One would think there should be some sort of statement following that. It never came, neither did the tour.

Again, you're going by what you want and expect, not what happened, or needed to happen.  Certainly not the same as this current situation

Axl and Dizzy that I can think of at the top of my head. The statements about the album from that time is ambigious, I agree, but there can be no doubt that they were in the process of a comeback. We heard nothing, nothing happened.

Ambiguous, to say the least (as you say). Again, I hope you're not comparing that to the current situation.

No, very unspecific. That didn't hold people from being sure that a release was imminent.

"People" don't know what's going on.  "People" like to speculate about things they don't have much real knowledge of. "People" assume lots of things.  We're talking about direct communication from the band.  Certainly the above isn't even close to the current situation.

 

Yeah, he went on tour, but refrained from even mentioning the album. Now we know why.

He never promised to talk about the album, so....and when he needed to communicate, he did.

No, it's what you want to think I'm asking for. Difference.

No, no difference.  You might not realize it's what you're asking for, but it is.  And you're not going to get it.  They'll tell us when there's something to tell us.  You want it when YOU want it.  Not gonna hapen.

Because they haven't And no, I'm not claiming that as fact.

Right, so no good reason.  That's what I'm trying to point out.  Thanks.

If you want me to only use steel hard fact in my arguments I suggest we should both get the fuck out of this discussion, so please.

I expect you to at least consider the events that have actually occurred.  You can speculate all you want.  But don't tell people your speculation is anything but that....or is even remotely the most likely situation.

It indicates he might have done what was outlined. Being in the studio and actually doing something there are different things.

Sure.  But considering he's not still there...and the information "out there" that indicates he had very little work to do...and the duration (about 3 days) he was in the studio.....It's not a large leap of logic (certainly not nearly large as the ones you're taking in your speculation) that he did what he said he was gonna do.

It wasn't me who said I'd believe in March 6th until GN'R stated otherwise.

Neither did I.  I said, RIGHT NOW, I see no reason not to take Axl at his word.  Might that change?  Sure.  But not yet.

He told us 5 days before last possible deadline. Telling us about a delay on March 1st isn't what I'd label notification as soon as possible.

And when, prior to the open letter, did he promise "notification as soon as possible"?  He notified us when he saw fit, in THAT instance.  And then promised to notify us quicker, in the future, if there were delays.

[pilferk]

Reference line 3 of my post regarding the present lack of a single. Then read the section of the open letter where Axl says he and the band believe the album deserves 'proper promotion and setup'. There's your proof 

Sorry, that's not proof.

Where does it say "IF no single exists 6 weeks prior to release, an album can't get proper promotion"?

It's simply your opinion...and not a well founded one.

[SterileEyes]

Reference line 3 of my post regarding the present lack of a single. Then read the section of the open letter where Axl says he and the band believe the album deserves 'proper promotion and setup'. There's your proof 

Sorry, that's not proof.

Where does it say "IF no single exists 6 weeks prior to release, an album can't get proper promotion"?

It's simply your opinion...and not a well founded one.

Well, I do my best to respect other people's opinions/not argue, so I suppose we'll agree to disagree on this one.

For the record, I hope you're right.

[ppbebe]

They didn't say "13 Tuesdays" merck did.

pilferk,  the letter also says If they are delayed for unseen reasons, we also will be notified as soon as possible in regard to a new date, and the album will be released as shortly thereafter as is possible.

so I don't think we'll be informed as soon as unseen problems arise to delay them.
Besides, by delay he might have meant the case after they announced an official release date.

Anyways
Since jan we've heard Axl was in Vegas, in NY with bubbles and in la. just heard from brain. And it's still jan.
Was it this quiet before 2006?

negative speculations are very tiring.

[pilferk]

Right...idle speculation based on nothing but your assumptions.  That's what I said.

Strike it out all you want...doesn't make it less true.

2 weeks, 4 weeks. Both are just as groundless. I'll agree it's not yet crisis mode, but I see the writing on the wall.

On the contrary...one date is that of an alarmist.  You see writing on the wall because you WANT to see it, not because it actually exists.

Agreed, but it doesn't take more than for Axl or management to post a little note on the website telling us things have been finalized and that tracklist and release date will follow shortly. My experience with GN'R is that as soon as they have something to say, they say it. That's the main basis of my skepticism right there.

Again, you want hand holding.  Axl promised to tell us when the date was finalized.  Not to lead us through each and every step of the process.

As for Gnr saying things as soon as they have them to say...the open letter, itself, shows that not to be true.  Axl/Gnr say things WHEN THEY'RE READY to say them.  And that's the whole point.

W

What we KNOW is that Axl gave us a tentative release date on December 14th 2006. That's it.

The RUMOURS indicate that he could be on schedule. But even that is speculation, at best.

We know he told us he would tell us when the release date is finalized.

We know he told us he would tell us if there are further delays.

We also know he was in Vegas, and he was working in the studio.

We also know he was in NYC.

We also know he is (if reports are true) in LA.

Those are not rumors.  Those are facts.

And giving the timing of those things, they fit the schedule he outlined in his letter (with the cancelled shows).  That too, is a fact.

So, what we KNOW points to him being on schedule.  It might not be the case, but it points that way.

[polluxlm]

[
January 2001

DJ: When is it gonna be the new album? Is it possible that we're gonna have a new record from Guns N' Roses?

Axl: Yes, I've heard. Um, hopefully we will put out a new single umm sometime this spring and then the record gonna be done in June or shortly thereafter.

Pretty nonspecific, wishy washy, and certainly not close to what we got in the open letter.? I hope you're not comparing the two.

 

A tour was happening. One would think there should be some sort of statement following that. It never came, neither did the tour.

Again, you're going by what you want and expect, not what happened, or needed to happen.? Certainly not the same as this current situation

Axl and Dizzy that I can think of at the top of my head. The statements about the album from that time is ambigious, I agree, but there can be no doubt that they were in the process of a comeback. We heard nothing, nothing happened.

Ambiguous, to say the least (as you say). Again, I hope you're not comparing that to the current situation.

No, very unspecific. That didn't hold people from being sure that a release was imminent.

"People" don't know what's going on.? "People" like to speculate about things they don't have much real knowledge of. "People" assume lots of things.? We're talking about direct communication from the band.? Certainly the above isn't even close to the current situation.

 

Yeah, he went on tour, but refrained from even mentioning the album. Now we know why.

He never promised to talk about the album, so....and when he needed to communicate, he did.

No, it's what you want to think I'm asking for. Difference.

No, no difference.? You might not realize it's what you're asking for, but it is.? And you're not going to get it.? They'll tell us when there's something to tell us.? You want it when YOU want it.? Not gonna hapen.

Because they haven't And no, I'm not claiming that as fact.

Right, so no good reason.? That's what I'm trying to point out.? Thanks.

If you want me to only use steel hard fact in my arguments I suggest we should both get the fuck out of this discussion, so please.

I expect you to at least consider the events that have actually occurred.? You can speculate all you want.? But don't tell people your speculation is anything but that....or is even remotely the most likely situation.

It indicates he might have done what was outlined. Being in the studio and actually doing something there are different things.

Sure.? But considering he's not still there...and the information "out there" that indicates he had very little work to do...and the duration (about 3 days) he was in the studio.....It's not a large leap of logic (certainly not nearly large as the ones you're taking in your speculation) that he did what he said he was gonna do.

It wasn't me who said I'd believe in March 6th until GN'R stated otherwise.

Neither did I.? I said, RIGHT NOW, I see no reason not to take Axl at his word.? Might that change?? Sure.? But not yet.

He told us 5 days before last possible deadline. Telling us about a delay on March 1st isn't what I'd label notification as soon as possible.

And when, prior to the open letter, did he promise "notification as soon as possible"?? He notified us when he saw fit, in THAT instance.? And then promised to notify us quicker, in the future, if there were delays.

Forget tentative, maybe, hopefully, definitely. Forget what is supposed to happen and how soon.

The important thing is that regardless of how he may have worded himself in past statements the red thread is that when something i set to happen and we don't hear anything, it's not happening.

The times when things actually happened, 2002 tours, BH leaving, 2006 tours and cancellations, we did hear something pretty soon after.


And btw

If we are delayed for unseen reasons, you also will be notified as soon as possible in regard to a new date

[pilferk]

Forget tentative, maybe, hopefully, definitely. Forget what is supposed to happen and how soon.

The important thing is that regardless of how he may have worded himself in past statements the red thread is that when something i set to happen and we don't hear anything, it's not happening.

The times when things actually happened, 2002 tours, BH leaving, 2006 tours and cancellations, we did hear something pretty soon after.

And, again, we did hear something.  About 5 1/2 weeks ago.  And your expectation to either continually hear something, or to have heard something by now, isn't necessarily realistic.  You're imposing your own artificial deadline.....and then saying since Axl has passed it, it's "not happening".

And btw

If we are delayed for unseen reasons, you also will be notified as soon as possible in regard to a new date

Exactly.  And we haven't.  So we have no reason to think anything's changed.  Thanks for making my point so succinctly.