2007 Baseball Season is about to start--talk about anything you want

[freedom78]

Dear Brewers,

We like you guys so much, that we've decided to not start Woody Williams or Roy Oswalt against you, and will start rookies instead.  Enjoy your sweep!

Love,

The Astros

[tim_m]

And the sox continue to try and piss away the division! Incredible.

[freedom78]

And the sox continue to try and piss away the division! Incredible.

Yeah...how many years in a row have the Sox had a lead in the division, and I've thought "Yeah, it's their year, finally, to take that crown"...and yet it always gets pissed away.  I'm amazed that their lead is down to 1.5...truly amazed.  They should have walked away with this one.  Maybe they still will, but damn! 

 

[faldor]

And the sox continue to try and piss away the division! Incredible.

Yeah...how many years in a row have the Sox had a lead in the division, and I've thought "Yeah, it's their year, finally, to take that crown"...and yet it always gets pissed away.? I'm amazed that their lead is down to 1.5...truly amazed.? They should have walked away with this one.? Maybe they still will, but damn!?

?

You shouldn't be too amazed they're in the midst of blowing the division.  Take one look at the lineup they've been sending out there since Manny Ramirez went down a few weeks back (Youkilis and Crisp have also been out the last week or so).  Mike Lowell is their cleanup hitter.  He's having a very nice season, but come on, cleanup?  Tonight they had 5-9 JD Drew and his now 9 homers, Varitek and his .250ish avg., Hinske and his .220ish avg., Kielty and his .220ish avg., and Lugo and his .230ish avg.  A dreadful lineup if I've ever seen one, I dare you to try and find a worse one out there right now.  They HAD great pitching for most of the season, which overshadowed their very inconsistent offense (they can explode at times, especially at home).  But recently their relief has been terrible, so even when their offense manages to scrape together a few runs to take a lead the bullpen has just given it right back.  That should pretty much spell it out for you.  Fortunately they were able to get out to such a big lead that they will probably be able to back right on in to the playoffs (their magic # is only 3 to clinch at least the wild card).  Maybe they'll get healthy by then, Gagne, Okajima, and Dice K will catch their second wind or rediscover what they once had.  Or maybe they'll go down without a fight.  We'll see.

[freedom78]

And the sox continue to try and piss away the division! Incredible.

Yeah...how many years in a row have the Sox had a lead in the division, and I've thought "Yeah, it's their year, finally, to take that crown"...and yet it always gets pissed away.  I'm amazed that their lead is down to 1.5...truly amazed.  They should have walked away with this one.  Maybe they still will, but damn! 

 

You shouldn't be too amazed they're in the midst of blowing the division.  Take one look at the lineup they've been sending out there since Manny Ramirez went down a few weeks back (Youkilis and Crisp have also been out the last week or so).  Mike Lowell is their cleanup hitter.  He's having a very nice season, but come on, cleanup?  Tonight they had 5-9 JD Drew and his now 9 homers, Varitek and his .250ish avg., Hinske and his .220ish avg., Kielty and his .220ish avg., and Lugo and his .230ish avg.  A dreadful lineup if I've ever seen one, I dare you to try and find a worse one out there right now.  They HAD great pitching for most of the season, which overshadowed their very inconsistent offense (they can explode at times, especially at home).  But recently their relief has been terrible, so even when their offense manages to scrape together a few runs to take a lead the bullpen has just given it right back.  That should pretty much spell it out for you.  Fortunately they were able to get out to such a big lead that they will probably be able to back right on in to the playoffs (their magic # is only 3 to clinch at least the wild card).  Maybe they'll get healthy by then, Gagne, Okajima, and Dice K will catch their second wind or rediscover what they once had.  Or maybe they'll go down without a fight.  We'll see.

I've kept up on the Gagne issue, but it takes a lot of effort to be a true "fan of the game" to the extent that you know what's going on everywhere.  I try to keep on top of the NL Central, and keep the other races in my peripheral vision.

Cubs Win!  Brewers Lose!  Me Happy!  Harry Happy!

[faldor]

And the sox continue to try and piss away the division! Incredible.

Yeah...how many years in a row have the Sox had a lead in the division, and I've thought "Yeah, it's their year, finally, to take that crown"...and yet it always gets pissed away.? I'm amazed that their lead is down to 1.5...truly amazed.? They should have walked away with this one.? Maybe they still will, but damn!?

?

You shouldn't be too amazed they're in the midst of blowing the division.? Take one look at the lineup they've been sending out there since Manny Ramirez went down a few weeks back (Youkilis and Crisp have also been out the last week or so).? Mike Lowell is their cleanup hitter.? He's having a very nice season, but come on, cleanup?? Tonight they had 5-9 JD Drew and his now 9 homers, Varitek and his .250ish avg., Hinske and his .220ish avg., Kielty and his .220ish avg., and Lugo and his .230ish avg.? A dreadful lineup if I've ever seen one, I dare you to try and find a worse one out there right now.? They HAD great pitching for most of the season, which overshadowed their very inconsistent offense (they can explode at times, especially at home).? But recently their relief has been terrible, so even when their offense manages to scrape together a few runs to take a lead the bullpen has just given it right back.? That should pretty much spell it out for you.? Fortunately they were able to get out to such a big lead that they will probably be able to back right on in to the playoffs (their magic # is only 3 to clinch at least the wild card).? Maybe they'll get healthy by then, Gagne, Okajima, and Dice K will catch their second wind or rediscover what they once had.? Or maybe they'll go down without a fight.? We'll see.

I've kept up on the Gagne issue, but it takes a lot of effort to be a true "fan of the game" to the extent that you know what's going on everywhere.? I try to keep on top of the NL Central, and keep the other races in my peripheral vision.

Cubs Win!? Brewers Lose!? Me Happy!? Harry Happy!

Yeah, I don't expect anyone to know the ins and outs of every team.  That's why I pointed out their putrid lineup.  I'm sure lots of people don't even realize the mess they've been sending out there.  Recent years their lineup has been among the best, not so this year.  Even Manny and Ortiz are having down years with respect to what they normally do.  But take ONE of those guys out and the lineup becomes average at best, not to mention taking 2 other everyday players out.  I'm not making excuses, every team has to deal with injuries, just stating the facts.

The Cubs sure have had a nice turnaround.  Could this be the year?  I'm gonna say no.  It pains me to say it, but if the Yanks can avoid the Angels in the playoffs I think they could be the favorites.  They've got the offense, if they can prove they can hit good pitching in October, which they haven't always done in the past few years.  They've got capable enough starting pitching 1-3, and even Mussina has been better of late, Clemens may be iffy, but at least a good 1/2.  And in the post-season you only really need 2 quality relievers and if they pitch Joba on back to back days they've got that.  Of course I hope I'm wrong on all accounts and could very well be.  They haven't had that October magic for quite some time.

[Misfits 138]

horray for the cubs!!! so yea...i still hate the fact that the cubs have 2 off days in the future and the brewers keep playing with no rest...it scares me a bit if the brewers win both games on the off days they gain a full game on us...so we need to dominate from here on out...and hope the brewers forget how to hit and throw...and keep playing good baseball...Zambrano should be better next start since he would have his usual rest...last night he didnt have it...he had no snap in his pithes. but yea...only a few more games left to play...lets do this cubbies!!!!!!

[freedom78]

horray for the cubs!!! so yea...i still hate the fact that the cubs have 2 off days in the future and the brewers keep playing with no rest...it scares me a bit if the brewers win both games on the off days they gain a full game on us...so we need to dominate from here on out...and hope the brewers forget how to hit and throw...and keep playing good baseball...Zambrano should be better next start since he would have his usual rest...last night he didnt have it...he had no snap in his pithes. but yea...only a few more games left to play...lets do this cubbies!!!!!!

Yeah, but the Cubs have the Pirates, Marlins, and Reds (again), while the Brew Crew have the Braves, Cards, and Padres.  And I'd rather be up one than in the Brewers' position.  Schedule favors the Cubs...though they still have to go out there are play like they want it.  I do think they host the tiebreaker w/ Milwaukee, if it comes to that.

[pilferk]

And the sox continue to try and piss away the division! Incredible.

Yeah...how many years in a row have the Sox had a lead in the division, and I've thought "Yeah, it's their year, finally, to take that crown"...and yet it always gets pissed away.  I'm amazed that their lead is down to 1.5...truly amazed.  They should have walked away with this one.  Maybe they still will, but damn! 

 

At this point, they may win...but it's not looking like they'll "walk away with it".  Less than a week ago, when they won on Saturday, I would've said they had it in the bag.  But their current collapse, combined with the Yankees continued hot streak, is going to make this a pretty interesting last week.

I still think the Sox will likely win...the Yanks now have to face the same team that just beat up on the Sox....but the Yanks have all but assured they'll be in the playoffs and, for them, that's a pretty huge victory. 

It still floors me that they're this close.  I wouldn't, in my wildest fantasies (well, maybe my wildest), have thought they'd get this close to the Sox.  I can't even IMAGINE the turmoil in Red Sox Nation that will come to pass if the Sox blow this lead completely.

[pilferk]

You shouldn't be too amazed they're in the midst of blowing the division.  Take one look at the lineup they've been sending out there since Manny Ramirez went down a few weeks back (Youkilis and Crisp have also been out the last week or so).  Mike Lowell is their cleanup hitter.  He's having a very nice season, but come on, cleanup?  Tonight they had 5-9 JD Drew and his now 9 homers, Varitek and his .250ish avg., Hinske and his .220ish avg., Kielty and his .220ish avg., and Lugo and his .230ish avg.  A dreadful lineup if I've ever seen one, I dare you to try and find a worse one out there right now.  They HAD great pitching for most of the season, which overshadowed their very inconsistent offense (they can explode at times, especially at home).  But recently their relief has been terrible, so even when their offense manages to scrape together a few runs to take a lead the bullpen has just given it right back.  That should pretty much spell it out for you.  Fortunately they were able to get out to such a big lead that they will probably be able to back right on in to the playoffs (their magic # is only 3 to clinch at least the wild card).  Maybe they'll get healthy by then, Gagne, Okajima, and Dice K will catch their second wind or rediscover what they once had.  Or maybe they'll go down without a fight.  We'll see.

Papelbon is, once again, losing velocity (and control) at the end of the season.  If I were the Red Sox, that would be my biggest worry...because this is the 2nd year running that they've seen it. Granted, it's not (yet) as drastic as it was at the end of last year, but the drop off is there.

Dice K and Okajima are running into the long MLB season.  They're just not used to that, since japan's seasons are much shorter....and again, you can see the drop off in velocity and control (and, with Okajima, any movement on his pitches) which I think indicates tired arms.

Beckett will be his normal, stellar self....but you can only use him every 4- 5 games.  Wakefield is inconsistent and Schilling is going to have to depend on craftiness to get him through the rest of the year.  But one mistake (witness Jeter's home run) is going to be VERY costly with him.

[pilferk]

[]Yeah, I don't expect anyone to know the ins and outs of every team.  That's why I pointed out their putrid lineup.  I'm sure lots of people don't even realize the mess they've been sending out there.  Recent years their lineup has been among the best, not so this year.  Even Manny and Ortiz are having down years with respect to what they normally do.  But take ONE of those guys out and the lineup becomes average at best, not to mention taking 2 other everyday players out.  I'm not making excuses, every team has to deal with injuries, just stating the facts.

Yeah...the Sox (to a lesser extent, so far) are seeing pretty much what the yanks saw EARLY in the season.  And it's the 2nd season in a row where late season injuries have had a HUGE effect on the AL East race.

The Cubs sure have had a nice turnaround.  Could this be the year?  I'm gonna say no.  It pains me to say it, but if the Yanks can avoid the Angels in the playoffs I think they could be the favorites.  They've got the offense, if they can prove they can hit good pitching in October, which they haven't always done in the past few years.  They've got capable enough starting pitching 1-3, and even Mussina has been better of late, Clemens may be iffy, but at least a good 1/2.  And in the post-season you only really need 2 quality relievers and if they pitch Joba on back to back days they've got that.  Of course I hope I'm wrong on all accounts and could very well be.  They haven't had that October magic for quite some time.

This is the first year, in ahile, I've thought the Yanks had a real good shot at the WS title.  They've been "good" the past few years, but they've always lacked a component or two that I thought would hurt them in the playoffs.  This year....they've got it all.  Good starters, good bullpen (though it's been inconsistent of late), GREAT offense, and great energy and chemistry going into the playoffs.

You mention Joba and Rivera...don't forget Vizcaino.  He's actually pitched pretty well.....the rest of the pen has had good days and bad, but have tended toward good more often than not.

I also agree that LA is, for us, probably the biggest potential "bump in the road".  They seem to have our number....and are exactly the type of team we don't play well against (fast, with good defense, good baserunning, and willing to play small ball).

[tim_m]

And the sox continue to try and piss away the division! Incredible.

Yeah...how many years in a row have the Sox had a lead in the division, and I've thought "Yeah, it's their year, finally, to take that crown"...and yet it always gets pissed away.  I'm amazed that their lead is down to 1.5...truly amazed.  They should have walked away with this one.  Maybe they still will, but damn! 

 

At this point, they may win...but it's not looking like they'll "walk away with it".  Less than a week ago, when they won on Saturday, I would've said they had it in the bag.  But their current collapse, combined with the Yankees continued hot streak, is going to make this a pretty interesting last week.

I still think the Sox will likely win...the Yanks now have to face the same team that just beat up on the Sox....but the Yanks have all but assured they'll be in the playoffs and, for them, that's a pretty huge victory. 

It still floors me that they're this close.  I wouldn't, in my wildest fantasies (well, maybe my wildest), have thought they'd get this close to the Sox.  I can't even IMAGINE the turmoil in Red Sox Nation that will come to pass if the Sox blow this lead completely.

It would surpass their biggest collapse in history. I would enjoy it imensely!

[tim_m]

[]Yeah, I don't expect anyone to know the ins and outs of every team.  That's why I pointed out their putrid lineup.  I'm sure lots of people don't even realize the mess they've been sending out there.  Recent years their lineup has been among the best, not so this year.  Even Manny and Ortiz are having down years with respect to what they normally do.  But take ONE of those guys out and the lineup becomes average at best, not to mention taking 2 other everyday players out.  I'm not making excuses, every team has to deal with injuries, just stating the facts.

Yeah...the Sox (to a lesser extent, so far) are seeing pretty much what the yanks saw EARLY in the season.  And it's the 2nd season in a row where late season injuries have had a HUGE effect on the AL East race.

The Cubs sure have had a nice turnaround.  Could this be the year?  I'm gonna say no.  It pains me to say it, but if the Yanks can avoid the Angels in the playoffs I think they could be the favorites.  They've got the offense, if they can prove they can hit good pitching in October, which they haven't always done in the past few years.  They've got capable enough starting pitching 1-3, and even Mussina has been better of late, Clemens may be iffy, but at least a good 1/2.  And in the post-season you only really need 2 quality relievers and if they pitch Joba on back to back days they've got that.  Of course I hope I'm wrong on all accounts and could very well be.  They haven't had that October magic for quite some time.

This is the first year, in ahile, I've thought the Yanks had a real good shot at the WS title.  They've been "good" the past few years, but they've always lacked a component or two that I thought would hurt them in the playoffs.  This year....they've got it all.  Good starters, good bullpen (though it's been inconsistent of late), GREAT offense, and great energy and chemistry going into the playoffs.

You mention Joba and Rivera...don't forget Vizcaino.  He's actually pitched pretty well.....the rest of the pen has had good days and bad, but have tended toward good more often than not.

I also agree that LA is, for us, probably the biggest potential "bump in the road".  They seem to have our number....and are exactly the type of team we don't play well against (fast, with good defense, good baserunning, and willing to play small ball).

I'm interested to see how Joba will do when he has to come into consecutive games in the playoffs. I highly doubt the rules are going to apply in a tight playoff game.

[tim_m]

You shouldn't be too amazed they're in the midst of blowing the division.  Take one look at the lineup they've been sending out there since Manny Ramirez went down a few weeks back (Youkilis and Crisp have also been out the last week or so).  Mike Lowell is their cleanup hitter.  He's having a very nice season, but come on, cleanup?  Tonight they had 5-9 JD Drew and his now 9 homers, Varitek and his .250ish avg., Hinske and his .220ish avg., Kielty and his .220ish avg., and Lugo and his .230ish avg.  A dreadful lineup if I've ever seen one, I dare you to try and find a worse one out there right now.  They HAD great pitching for most of the season, which overshadowed their very inconsistent offense (they can explode at times, especially at home).  But recently their relief has been terrible, so even when their offense manages to scrape together a few runs to take a lead the bullpen has just given it right back.  That should pretty much spell it out for you.  Fortunately they were able to get out to such a big lead that they will probably be able to back right on in to the playoffs (their magic # is only 3 to clinch at least the wild card).  Maybe they'll get healthy by then, Gagne, Okajima, and Dice K will catch their second wind or rediscover what they once had.  Or maybe they'll go down without a fight.  We'll see.

Papelbon is, once again, losing velocity (and control) at the end of the season.  If I were the Red Sox, that would be my biggest worry...because this is the 2nd year running that they've seen it. Granted, it's not (yet) as drastic as it was at the end of last year, but the drop off is there.

Dick K and Okajima are running into the long MLB season.  They're just not used to that, since japan's seasons are much shorter....and again, you can see the drop off in velocity and control (and, with Okajima, any movement on his pitches) which I think indicates tired arms.

Beckett will be his normal, stellar self....but you can only use him every 4- 5 games.  Wakefield is inconsistent and Schilling is going to have to depend on craftiness to get him through the rest of the year.  But one mistake (witness Jeter's home run) is going to be VERY costly with him.

Don't forget manny quitting on his team again. Its becoming way too much of a coincidence this guy gets hurt every year at this time.

[pilferk]

Papelbon is, once again, losing velocity (and control) at the end of the season.  If I were the Red Sox, that would be my biggest worry...because this is the 2nd year running that they've seen it. Granted, it's not (yet) as drastic as it was at the end of last year, but the drop off is there.

Dick K and Okajima are running into the long MLB season.  They're just not used to that, since japan's seasons are much shorter....and again, you can see the drop off in velocity and control (and, with Okajima, any movement on his pitches) which I think indicates tired arms.

Beckett will be his normal, stellar self....but you can only use him every 4- 5 games.  Wakefield is inconsistent and Schilling is going to have to depend on craftiness to get him through the rest of the year.  But one mistake (witness Jeter's home run) is going to be VERY costly with him.

The above typo really WAS unintentional (and I've since fixed it).   Just want to make sure the Sox fans know that!

[faldor]

First in respone to Timothy, yes it would surpass the biggest collapse in history (though let us not forget a team that lost a 3-0 lead in the 2004 ALCS).  I wonder though if it would be looked at as big a deal as the '78 collapse.  I tend to think not, because more than likely the Sox will make the playoffs regardless.  They will still have a shot at the world series, despite the collapse because of the expanded playoffs.  Back in '78 it was East vs. West and that's it, so after the collapse they were done.  Not saying it's not a collapse of epic proportions, but I just don't think it'll be viewed in the same light.  Just by numbers, teams will be able to say well the 2007 Yankees were 14 1/2 back (or whatever it peaked at) and they still came back.

About Manny, that's YOUR opinion.  You think he's laying down.  You have NO facts or knowledge to back that up.  I don't believe you're a doctor.  I know Manny has done things in the past and maybe you're right, but you shouldn't state it as a fact.  It's pure speculation.  Francona swears he's just not ready yet, obviously he's gonna stick up for his players but I really don't see why Manny would sit druing a pennant race.  Last year was MUCH different.  They were out of it, he packed it in.  You can say a lot of bad things about Manny, but the fact remains that he is a hard working player.  One of the first guys to show up to the park on gamedays, reviewing tape, working on his swing.  He definitely has his moments but I can't believe that he is sitting these games while he's healthy.  (In your defense though, this thought IS shared by many in the Boston media and Sox fans alike.  Again though, it's all just speculation.  None of us know it to be true).

And pilferk, I didn't even notice the typo.

[tim_m]

First in respone to Timothy, yes it would surpass the biggest collapse in history (though let us not forget a team that lost a 3-0 lead in the 2004 ALCS).  I wonder though if it would be looked at as big a deal as the '78 collapse.  I tend to think not, because more than likely the Sox will make the playoffs regardless.  They will still have a shot at the world series, despite the collapse because of the expanded playoffs.  Back in '78 it was East vs. West and that's it, so after the collapse they were done.  Not saying it's not a collapse of epic proportions, but I just don't think it'll be viewed in the same light.  Just by numbers, teams will be able to say well the 2007 Yankees were 14 1/2 back (or whatever it peaked at) and they still came back.

About Manny, that's YOUR opinion.  You think he's laying down.  You have NO facts or knowledge to back that up.  I don't believe you're a doctor.  I know Manny has done things in the past and maybe you're right, but you shouldn't state it as a fact.  It's pure speculation.  Francona swears he's just not ready yet, obviously he's gonna stick up for his players but I really don't see why Manny would sit druing a pennant race.  Last year was MUCH different.  They were out of it, he packed it in.  You can say a lot of bad things about Manny, but the fact remains that he is a hard working player.  One of the first guys to show up to the park on gamedays, reviewing tape, working on his swing.  He definitely has his moments but I can't believe that he is sitting these games while he's healthy.  (In your defense though, this thought IS shared by many in the Boston media and Sox fans alike.  Again though, it's all just speculation.  None of us know it to be true).

And pilferk, I didn't even notice the typo.

Thats a very good point they will make the playoffs this time even if they collapse completely. So it probably won't be considered as big even though it will be the biggest in history to date.

I honestly hope i'm wrong about  Manny. It would be a real shame if thats what he's doing every year at this time. I would hope no human could possibly be that selfish. It just seems like too much of a coincidence he gets injured every year this time of year. Like you said even the boston media has speculated on this too.

[faldor]

Yeah, everyone always thinks the worst when it comes to Manny and I guess it's justified.  It's like the boy who cried wolf, after awhile you just don't believe him anymore.  I heard yesterday though that the inury he has with his oblique usually takes 3-6 weeks to heal.  Yesterday marked the 3 week mark, so if that prognostication is true Manny may not even be ready for the playoffs.  It seems like he's getting closer, but he's still unable to run.  It appears that Francona and the Sox aren't extremely concerned with winning the division.  Obviously that would be a nice accomplishment and I'm sure they'd love nothing more than to finish ahead of the Yankees, but since they do have the wild card to fall back on they can concentrate on getting healthy, giving their Japanese pitchers some extra rest, trying to get Gagne right AGAIN, and setting up the rotation for the playoffs.  Again, not to undermine winning the division, but I think if the Sox cold do those things and get in as the wild card they'd be better off.  Of course I'm still holding out hope that they can somehow hold on, it's still very possible.  They face the same 3 starters at Tampa they just did back at Fenway when they won 2 out of 3, BUT all those games were 1 run games and the Sox play and hit a heck of a lot better at home.  Then they have favorable pitching matchups the 2 games with the A's and first with the Twins.  We'll see what happens.  It'll be interesting to see how both teams handle themselves down the stretch.  The Sox obviously have a lot more to do to right the ship so to speak but I wonder if the Yanks will go all out for the division or if they might give some regulars a rest and try to setup their rotation.  They're also pretty much assured at least the wild card and while winning the division would be a huge accomplishment, I think just making the playoffs would be quite the accomplishment itself.  I guess it kind of matters what happens the first part of the week.

[pilferk]

Yeah, everyone always thinks the worst when it comes to Manny and I guess it's justified.  It's like the boy who cried wolf, after awhile you just don't believe him anymore.  I heard yesterday though that the inury he has with his oblique usually takes 3-6 weeks to heal.  Yesterday marked the 3 week mark, so if that prognostication is true Manny may not even be ready for the playoffs.  It seems like he's getting closer, but he's still unable to run.  It appears that Francona and the Sox aren't extremely concerned with winning the division.  Obviously that would be a nice accomplishment and I'm sure they'd love nothing more than to finish ahead of the Yankees, but since they do have the wild card to fall back on they can concentrate on getting healthy, giving their Japanese pitchers some extra rest, trying to get Gagne right AGAIN, and setting up the rotation for the playoffs.  Again, not to undermine winning the division, but I think if the Sox cold do those things and get in as the wild card they'd be better off.  Of course I'm still holding out hope that they can somehow hold on, it's still very possible.  They face the same 3 starters at Tampa they just did back at Fenway when they won 2 out of 3, BUT all those games were 1 run games and the Sox play and hit a heck of a lot better at home.  Then they have favorable pitching matchups the 2 games with the A's and first with the Twins.  We'll see what happens.  It'll be interesting to see how both teams handle themselves down the stretch.  The Sox obviously have a lot more to do to right the ship so to speak but I wonder if the Yanks will go all out for the division or if they might give some regulars a rest and try to setup their rotation.  They're also pretty much assured at least the wild card and while winning the division would be a huge accomplishment, I think just making the playoffs would be quite the accomplishment itself.  I guess it kind of matters what happens the first part of the week.

They Yanks, even when 14 1/2 out, have said publicly they want to win the division.

I gotta say, the tact the Red Sox are taking seems like a cop out...it's, IMHO, a crappy attitude to adopt...and seems almost against the principles of "sports" and the competitive spirit.  I won't begrudge them the decision, but I wouldn't want the Yanks to do the same thing in their position.

It seems like they're either giving up, or simply trying to save face in the event the manage to piss away the rest of the huge lead they had.

[sandman]

Yeah, everyone always thinks the worst when it comes to Manny and I guess it's justified.? It's like the boy who cried wolf, after awhile you just don't believe him anymore.? I heard yesterday though that the inury he has with his oblique usually takes 3-6 weeks to heal.? Yesterday marked the 3 week mark, so if that prognostication is true Manny may not even be ready for the playoffs.? It seems like he's getting closer, but he's still unable to run.? It appears that Francona and the Sox aren't extremely concerned with winning the division.? Obviously that would be a nice accomplishment and I'm sure they'd love nothing more than to finish ahead of the Yankees, but since they do have the wild card to fall back on they can concentrate on getting healthy, giving their Japanese pitchers some extra rest, trying to get Gagne right AGAIN, and setting up the rotation for the playoffs.? Again, not to undermine winning the division, but I think if the Sox cold do those things and get in as the wild card they'd be better off.? Of course I'm still holding out hope that they can somehow hold on, it's still very possible.? They face the same 3 starters at Tampa they just did back at Fenway when they won 2 out of 3, BUT all those games were 1 run games and the Sox play and hit a heck of a lot better at home.? Then they have favorable pitching matchups the 2 games with the A's and first with the Twins.? We'll see what happens.? It'll be interesting to see how both teams handle themselves down the stretch.? The Sox obviously have a lot more to do to right the ship so to speak but I wonder if the Yanks will go all out for the division or if they might give some regulars a rest and try to setup their rotation.? They're also pretty much assured at least the wild card and while winning the division would be a huge accomplishment, I think just making the playoffs would be quite the accomplishment itself.? I guess it kind of matters what happens the first part of the week.

They Yanks, even when 14 1/2 out, have said publicly they want to win the division.

that's not exactly true. torre has said he just wanted to win games and find a way to be playing in october. and not think about Boston. then there's this...

"When we were 14 1/2 back, ... I just never really thought about the division. I didn't," Andy Pettitte said after the Yankees swept the Baltimore Orioles. "I wanted to make the playoffs, and then I knew if we continued to play well maybe that would be something that we could set our sights on."

Faldor - why would you say the SOX are not concerned with winning the division??? cause if they are not, they sure as hell should be. home field is huge. and momentum heading into the playoffs is important as well.