2007 Baseball Season is about to start--talk about anything you want

[tim_m]

Why isn't Clemens pitching Sunday at Fenway? Why pay him 28 million then pitch him the day after the Sox series ends. The Yanks don;t play the Sox again until late August... the best way to make up 13.5 games is head to head.

I agree.  Their reasoning is that they already have their top 3 lined up to go against the Sox, though Wang hasn't fared well at Fenway in the past and Mussina has been garbage all season.  I would think it'd be best for them to skip over Mussina and give him a couple extra days rest, although he's real finicky about his routine.  But the dude sucks this year, so screw him.  But you're right, 28 million and you don't want to overwhelm a 23 year veteran by throwing him into a heated rivalry.  Only 9 more head to head matchups, what's the wait?

Is he getting another tuneup or are they just simply holding him out of that series? If they are i don't get it.

[faldor]

Why isn't Clemens pitching Sunday at Fenway? Why pay him 28 million then pitch him the day after the Sox series ends. The Yanks don;t play the Sox again until late August... the best way to make up 13.5 games is head to head.

I agree.? Their reasoning is that they already have their top 3 lined up to go against the Sox, though Wang hasn't fared well at Fenway in the past and Mussina has been garbage all season.? I would think it'd be best for them to skip over Mussina and give him a couple extra days rest, although he's real finicky about his routine.? But the dude sucks this year, so screw him.? But you're right, 28 million and you don't want to overwhelm a 23 year veteran by throwing him into a heated rivalry.? Only 9 more head to head matchups, what's the wait?

Is he getting another tuneup or are they just simply holding him out of that series? If they are i don't get it.

No, he's done with the minors.  His next start will be in the bigs, but they're planning on holding him back until Monday in Chicago.  They think it'd be too crazy a scene to throw him in Fenway over the weekend even though his regular turn would be on Saturday.  I'm not sure who's making these decisions, Torre has defended the decision, I know Roger can't be happy about it.  It really makes no sense.

[tim_m]

Why isn't Clemens pitching Sunday at Fenway? Why pay him 28 million then pitch him the day after the Sox series ends. The Yanks don;t play the Sox again until late August... the best way to make up 13.5 games is head to head.

I agree.  Their reasoning is that they already have their top 3 lined up to go against the Sox, though Wang hasn't fared well at Fenway in the past and Mussina has been garbage all season.  I would think it'd be best for them to skip over Mussina and give him a couple extra days rest, although he's real finicky about his routine.  But the dude sucks this year, so screw him.  But you're right, 28 million and you don't want to overwhelm a 23 year veteran by throwing him into a heated rivalry.  Only 9 more head to head matchups, what's the wait?

Is he getting another tuneup or are they just simply holding him out of that series? If they are i don't get it.

No, he's done with the minors.  His next start will be in the bigs, but they're planning on holding him back until Monday in Chicago.  They think it'd be too crazy a scene to throw him in Fenway over the weekend even though his regular turn would be on Saturday.  I'm not sure who's making these decisions, Torre has defended the decision, I know Roger can't be happy about it.  It really makes no sense.

Thats just stupid. You don't treat a 23 year veteran like a rookie.

[pilferk]

The Yanks slide too much further into the hole and it's not going to matter, really, when Roger pitches.

This weekend is as much "must win" as any series the Yanks will play this season if they have any hope of being in the playoff picture at all.  I think if the Yanks do poorly at Fenway.....next week may bring some major changes to the Yankees.  Because if they hit 16.5 or 17.5 games out of first, early June or not, I think heads are going to roll.  They almost have to.....

George doesn't mind spending money to win ballgames, but you can have the payroll of the Royals and be in last place, close to 20 games out.  Somebody needs to light a fire under these guys asses.

[C0ma]

The way things are going I'd be suprised if someone doesn't get booted from the Bronx before the Sox Series. Think about it, they had their best series in a month taking two of three from the Sox then follow that up by losing 5 straight and possibly get swept in 2 straight series... If they head into Fenway at 15.5 back, I would think that they would have to do something to shake up their clubhouse (they don't seem to be willing to pitch a 23 year vet in the most important series they play until the All-Star Break). In my opinion Cashman or Torre will be let go tomorrow... After all forget about the East, they could come out of Boston anywhere from 5-11 out of the Wild Card depending on how things fall.

[sandman]

i'm actually starting to feel bad for the yankees. it's certainly no fun rooting against a bad team.

A-Rod should work on finding his swing instead of single blondes while on the road.

"Stray-Rod" is one of the best headlines i've seen in a while. that made me laugh.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18937267/

[pilferk]

i'm actually starting to feel bad for the yankees. it's certainly no fun rooting against a bad team.

A-Rod should work on finding his swing instead of single blondes while on the road.

"Stray-Rod" is one of the best headlines i've seen in a while. that made me laugh.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18937267/

I'm ready to start rooting against them just so they'll do something to shake things up and get their asses in gear.  OK, not really...but I'd try anything to get that lineup to wake the fuck up.

I don't know....maybe the blond will relax the guy at the plate a bit.  So long as his wife's OK with it, I say try anything at this point.

Even so...he's still hitting close to .300 and leading the majors in HR and RBI's.  Yes, much of it was in April.....and the last week has been abysmal (.182 with a dinger) but then again, the rest of the Yanks lineup has been equally aenemic.

[tim_m]

i'm actually starting to feel bad for the yankees. it's certainly no fun rooting against a bad team.

A-Rod should work on finding his swing instead of single blondes while on the road.

"Stray-Rod" is one of the best headlines i've seen in a while. that made me laugh.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18937267/

I'm ready to start rooting against them just so they'll do something to shake things up and get their asses in gear.  OK, not really...but I'd try anything to get that lineup to wake the fuck up.

I don't know....maybe the blond will relax the guy at the plate a bit.  So long as his wife's OK with it, I say try anything at this point.

Even so...he's still hitting close to .300 and leading the majors in HR and RBI's.  Yes, much of it was in April.....and the last week has been abysmal (.182 with a dinger) but then again, the rest of the Yanks lineup has been equally aenemic.

I hope the fans lay off him they try to blame too much solely on him. Right now we couldn't hit a baseball with one of those oversized inflatable bats.

[faldor]

i'm actually starting to feel bad for the yankees. it's certainly no fun rooting against a bad team.

A-Rod should work on finding his swing instead of single blondes while on the road.

"Stray-Rod" is one of the best headlines i've seen in a while. that made me laugh.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18937267/

I'm ready to start rooting against them just so they'll do something to shake things up and get their asses in gear.? OK, not really...but I'd try anything to get that lineup to wake the fuck up.

I don't know....maybe the blond will relax the guy at the plate a bit.? So long as his wife's OK with it, I say try anything at this point.

Even so...he's still hitting close to .300 and leading the majors in HR and RBI's.? Yes, much of it was in April.....and the last week has been abysmal (.182 with a dinger) but then again, the rest of the Yanks lineup has been equally aenemic.

I went to school with a girl who said she was in Boston I believe when the Yanks were in town and she saw A-Rod and Jeter out.  I don't know if she approached THEM or not but the end of the story is that at least A-Rod hit on her, not sure about Jeter.  She was quite attractive, I didn't know whether to believe the story or not.  And not that this recent story validates that one, but I'm sure lots of ballplayers hit on girls when they're on the road.  Married or not.  Hell, Derek Lowe got a girlfriend in LA with his wife still living in Boston.  They divorced once his cover was blown.  Wade Boggs, Margo Adams, the list goes on and on.

[pilferk]

Dice-K will be okay because he knows like 7-8 different pitches and can throw all of them for strikes most of the other pitchers from Japan had the good velocity and maybe one or two other good pitches, all hitters did was key in on one of them and make the pitcher work to get them out. With someone that can throw any pitch any count that's a little tougher to do.

Last nights ERA: 9.00

Again, benefitted from some great run support....

Not to make excuses for the guy but he had to leave the game after 5 innings because he was suffering from nausea.  He started feeling it in the 2nd inning but was able to pitch 3 more, just enough to get the win.  I didn't see the game but I think it's commendable that even feeling as sick as he did he was able to give the team 5 innings. 

Last nights ERA: 10.38

And I don't think he was sick last night (at least I haven't seen any reports of it).

I'm still going with consistently inconsistent.

And A-Rods play last night was funny as fuck. I know, some people are going to bag on him for it, but.....you can see he didn't actually form any "words" in the replay (so he didn't yell "I got it", no matter what the Jays say).  I can't fault the guy for doing whatever it takes, within the rules, to help his team...and no, I don't think it was "unsportsmanlike".  Given what I've seen (and heard) coming from opponents dugouts when 3rd baseman are chasing a popup near foul....I'd say it was pretty much business as usual.  The Jays just bit on the "deak".

[pilferk]

Why isn't Clemens pitching Sunday at Fenway? Why pay him 28 million then pitch him the day after the Sox series ends. The Yanks don;t play the Sox again until late August... the best way to make up 13.5 games is head to head.

Lets face it....Clemens is their #4 pitcher...and they've already got their rotation "set" so the 1 - 3 spots are pitching in the series.  While I'd LOVE to see Clemens pitch at Fenway, personally, I can certainly see Joe's logic behind holding Clemens off to pitch in his "normal" 4 hole.  In addition, you're showing 3 very different looks to the Sox over 3 days.  With Pettite's and Clemens similarities, I actually think pitching them in the same series (though I'm sure it will happen) gives the hitters some "help" picking up the ball on Clemens day to pitch.

[C0ma]

Why isn't Clemens pitching Sunday at Fenway? Why pay him 28 million then pitch him the day after the Sox series ends. The Yanks don;t play the Sox again until late August... the best way to make up 13.5 games is head to head.

Lets face it....Clemens is their #4 pitcher...and they've already got their rotation "set" so the 1 - 3 spots are pitching in the series.? While I'd LOVE to see Clemens pitch at Fenway, personally, I can certainly see Joe's logic behind holding Clemens off to pitch in his "normal" 4 hole.? In addition, you're showing 3 very different looks to the Sox over 3 days.? With Pettite's and Clemens similarities, I actually think pitching them in the same series (though I'm sure it will happen) gives the hitters some "help" picking up the ball on Clemens day to pitch.

So they rented a 28 million dollar 4th starter... and the 1-3 Starters are all pitching bellow .500 (Pettitte 3-4 2.51 ERA  Wang 3-4 4.13 ERA  Moose 2-3 5.86 ERA)
He isn't going to be better than sub .500 and you are paying him 28 million???

[pilferk]

So they rented a 28 million dollar 4th starter... and the 1-3 Starters are all pitching bellow .500 (Pettitte 3-4 2.51 ERA  Wang 3-4 4.13 ERA  Moose 2-3 5.86 ERA)
He isn't going to be better than sub .500 and you are paying him 28 million???

It's not about money...at least not to the Yanks.  It's not about "being better" than people filling other roles.  It's about filling your role on the team as best you can.

He was brought in as the #4 guy. That's always been the plan, to pitch him in the #4 hole, and get 6 quality innings in that spot.  The 28 mill (pro-rated, it's actually more like 22 to 23...or about 4 mill more than Mussina makes this year) had nothing to do with bringing him in to fill someoone elses' role at a higher spot in the rotation.  People need to get past that perception, because it was never the Yanks intent.  When they thought he might pitch in Toronto...it was still in the 4 hole.

Now, on the Yanks pitching, I think you can at least say that Pettite certainly deserves to be ahead of Clemens.  His record might not be great, but look at his ERA.  Pettitte isn't in the lineup, he can't score runs...he's doing what he needs to do, and well.  Certainly not going to bump him from your top 3.

Wang is certainly not "bumpable".  Again, his record isn't great, but his ERA over his past 7 is 3.38 and he's the workhorse on the staff....the one guy really capable of going late into a ballgame.  Not going to bump him out of your top 3.

Which leads us to Mussina.  I agree...he's the guy to bump .  He's been inconsistent and hasn't really found a groove, especially since coming off the DL.  But if you do that....you have a problem.  You either:

Bump Mussina giving him 2 extra days rest....which he hates and historically hurts him....to pitch against Chicago who is much more realistically in the Yanks sites.  And in addition you end up putting Clemens on the mound before Pettitte...who pitches an awful lot like Clemens does, which means the hitters on Andy's day have a leg up on spotting the ball.  I don't think the Yanks want to give the Sox any advantages right now.  Spotting them 14 games in the standings is probably enough.....

OR you bump Pettite, who's been the better pitcher this year, handled the sox pretty well (around a 2.2 ERA in 2 starts and 1 inning of relief against them), and who is probably the best PROVEN big game pitcher (other than Clemens, though we'll see) this year.

People are clamoring because they simply want to see Clemens pitch against the Sox, not because they're considering what would be the best for the Yanks...or because it makes sense within the scope of the Yanks plans for him.   Joe made the decision because he's doing what he thinks (and I agree, actually) is best for the teams chances of winning, and using Clemens where he fits into the rotation,  rather than creating high drama or media frenzy. 

[sandman]

pilferk - your analysis makes sense, and i agree with torre's decision.

but i'm guessing if the yankees were within striking distance of the red sox, clemens would be pitching this weekend. at the very least, it would have given torre more of a reason to consider it.

[pilferk]

pilferk - your analysis makes sense, and i agree with torre's decision.

but i'm guessing if the yankees were within striking distance of the red sox, clemens would be pitching this weekend. at the very least, it would have given torre more of a reason to consider it.

In early June?  I don't think it would matter if they were 2 games out...you stick with your 1 -3 (of course, if they were 3 games out, they're 1 - 3 would likely be doing much better, so it's tough to play that "what if" card).  In late August?  Maybe so, but some of the same issues come up, and then you're jockying (assuming you're in playoff contention) to make sure your rotation ends the season set up right.   But it's not late August, or the playoffs...I honestly don't think, at this stage of the game, the defecit matters as much as positioning your pitchers so that you can consistently win.

[C0ma]

pilferk - your analysis makes sense, and i agree with torre's decision.

but i'm guessing if the yankees were within striking distance of the red sox, clemens would be pitching this weekend. at the very least, it would have given torre more of a reason to consider it.

In early June?? I don't think it would matter if they were 2 games out...you stick with your 1 -3 (of course, if they were 3 games out, they're 1 - 3 would likely be doing much better, so it's tough to play that "what if" card).? In late August?? Maybe so, but some of the same issues come up, and then you're jockying (assuming you're in playoff contention) to make sure your rotation ends the season set up right.? ?But it's not late August, or the playoffs...I honestly don't think, at this stage of the game, the defecit matters as much as positioning your pitchers so that you can consistently win.

I see what you are saying, but if your rotation is setup properly... Mike Mussina isn't in the 1-3 spots. I'd look at Pettitte, Wang, Clemens, Mussina, and (who ever is healthy)
At his point it is early to be looking at games out of first and games out of the Wild Card, but it is important to keep an eye on games remaining in regular season series with division and league opponents... nothing makes up more games over the course of the season than head to head games. Right now they are down 6-3 in the season series with the Sox.

[sandman]

coma - i agree. yanks-sox games are usually HUGE. even in may. the "2-game swing" of each head-to-head matchup is major. the games take on a playoff like atmosphere.

but since the yanks are so far out of it, these games don't matter as much. the yanks just need wins, period. and if you assume for a second that the yanks have no shot at the division, monday's game vs. the white sox is just as important as saturday's game vs. the bosox.

[C0ma]

I'm saying that you are only 1/3 of the way thru a 162 game season and MAy 31st is too early to count anyone (nevermind the Yankee's) out of the division lead in October. I'd focus on getting as many head to head victories against the AL East as possible. The Sox could very easily play sub .500 ball the rest of the way and the Yankees catch fire. Trust me stranger things have happened up here, I can't count the Yanks out before they are officially eliminated from the division crown.

[C0ma]

funny joke on Letterman tonight... So Roger Clemens is back with the Yankees, Very Exciting, Not only is he getting 28 million but he is getting October off.

[faldor]

Dice-K will be okay because he knows like 7-8 different pitches and can throw all of them for strikes most of the other pitchers from Japan had the good velocity and maybe one or two other good pitches, all hitters did was key in on one of them and make the pitcher work to get them out. With someone that can throw any pitch any count that's a little tougher to do.

Last nights ERA: 9.00

Again, benefitted from some great run support....

Not to make excuses for the guy but he had to leave the game after 5 innings because he was suffering from nausea.? He started feeling it in the 2nd inning but was able to pitch 3 more, just enough to get the win.? I didn't see the game but I think it's commendable that even feeling as sick as he did he was able to give the team 5 innings.?

Last nights ERA: 10.38

And I don't think he was sick last night (at least I haven't seen any reports of it).

I'm still going with consistently inconsistent.

And A-Rods play last night was funny as fuck. I know, some people are going to bag on him for it, but.....you can see he didn't actually form any "words" in the replay (so he didn't yell "I got it", no matter what the Jays say).? I can't fault the guy for doing whatever it takes, within the rules, to help his team...and no, I don't think it was "unsportsmanlike".? Given what I've seen (and heard) coming from opponents dugouts when 3rd baseman are chasing a popup near foul....I'd say it was pretty much business as usual.? The Jays just bit on the "deak".

I absolutely HATE, DESPISE Gay-Rod.  Ever since swiping the ball out of Arroyo's glove like a little bitch, and then whining to the umpire like he did nothing wrong.  Then blatantly throwing a shoulder at Pedroia AFTER his slide was completed, and then last night.  He's a punk, plain and simple.  One of the most hated guys in the league this side of Barry Bonds.  He could've very easily said "MINE" last night which is the same as "I got it".  Regardless, that was bushleague.  They were gonna win the game anyway so I'm not gonna say it had an impact on the outcome, he's just a ferry.  I don't think he ever pulled this stuff in Texas or Seattle, at least you never heard about it.  New York has NOT been a good move for him.